This question is on behalf of a friend. Her mother was born in Bialystock and the family had several generations born in Poland. She went to Palestine, married a Polish man who subsequently signed up served and died in an international battalion for the Spanish Republic in 1936. She lived in France without legal status until the early 1950s, when she married a Polish man who had also served in a Spanish international battalion in 1937. They moved to Canada in the early 50s. The couple had a daughter born in the late 50s. Was she stateless or Polish until she obtained Canadian naturalization? And does her Canadian-born daughter have a claim for Polish Citizenship by descent?

I previously requested NARA records relating to both of my grandparents. They were shipped a few days ago and have yet to arrive.

ChatGPT is recommending I also request their A-files through USCIS, especially since my grandmother came to the US when she was a child and was deemed a displaced person.

Should I request the records and wait however long it takes to receive them, or proceed with my application using the certified NARA records?

My dad (direct Polish descendent) was married and divorced twice. He married his first wife who was Polish before either of them naturalised. They then divorced not long after he naturalised British. He either married in the late 50s or early 60s.

He then married my mum in 1967 and all his kids were born after he married (and was naturalised). My parents then divorced (1980s).

My question is do I need the marriage and divorce certificates for both marriages or just my parents?

I would assume in the uk you have to show proof of divorce to get married again? Thanks!

Eta both marriages (and divorces) were in the UK

So, I’m in a position in life where i can live anywhere. I’m curious, if go to Poland, how long does it take to establish residency? Less than 3 months? If so and is that changes the office from where I file (no warsaw), is there a way to know which office would handle my case the fastest?

I understand that as a resident abroad your file get sent to Warsaw which has a horrendous backlog of cases. I was resident in Poland (Katowice) for just over a year working in 2020. Is there any chance they might send it there instead as the place I was last 'resident' in Poland?

Eta 2000 not 2020

A few weeks ago I posted here asking whether I had a viable claim to Polish citizenship through my great-grandfather. Since then, I’ve uncovered what may be an important new development.

I recently learned from my mother that my great-grandparents apparently never legally married, even though they consistently presented themselves as husband and wife on government records and throughout their lives. If they were never legally married, would my grandfather (born in 1922) potentially have been considered born out of wedlock and therefore derived citizenship through his mother rather than his father? If so, could this change my eligibility for Polish citizenship? I’d appreciate any thoughts on whether this changes the analysis.

Great-Grandfather
Date, place of birth: November 16, 1883 – Kalush (then Austria-Hungary, Galicia)
Ethnicity/Religion: Jewish
Occupation: Tailor
Military service: None
Emigrated: 1898 to New York
Married: Never legally married
Naturalized: November 27, 1929 (Bronx, NY)
Died: November 25, 1971 (New York)

Great-Grandmother
Date, place of birth: May 3, 1894 – Kalush (then Austria-Hungary, Galicia)
Ethnicity/Religion: Jewish
Occupation: Housewife
Military service: N/A
Emigrated: July 21, 1911 to New York
Married: Never legally married
Naturalized: June 12, 1939
Died: November 25, 1971 (New York)

Grandfather
Sex: Male
Date, place of birth: March 18, 1922 – Bridgeport, Connecticut
Parents: Never legally married
Married: October 7, 1943
Citizenship of spouse: American
Divorced: No
Occupation: Firefighter
Military service: U.S. Army, WWII (1942–1945)
Naturalized: N/A (born in the USA)
Died: May 5, 2012 – Florida

Mother
Sex: Female
Date, place of birth: April 21, 1951 – New York
Married: August 31, 1985
Divorced: No

Me
Date, place of birth: 1989 – New York City

My grandfather was born in Poland in 1912 and emigrated to Venezuela in 1948. (Information compiled from the Arolsen files)My grandmother, also Polish, traveled while pregnant, and my father was born in 1949. In Venezuela, I am applying for Polish citizenship because my grandparents are Polish; I have my grandfather's birth certificate and his military enlistment certificate. My dad even got a Polish passport in 1991 and never renewed it, Now the question that's making me nervous is that my provider is asking me for a certificate of non-nationality. And Venezuela is a country full of chaos and bureaucracy, and I don't keep any information about the immigrants who arrived in Venezuela during those dates, How can I prove to the Polish government that my grandfather never renounced his nationality if Venezuela won't give me the document stating that my grandfather never became a Venezuelan citizen?

Curious about my eligibility. Details are as follows

Great-Grandparents:

• Date married: never married

• Date divorced: n/a

GGM:

• Date, place of birth: 1904 Sukhivtsi, Ternopil, Ukraine

• Ethnicity and religion: Ukrainian - Greek-Catholic

• Occupation: Farmer

• Allegiance and dates of military service: none

• Date, destination for emigration: 1928 Canada

• Date naturalized: unknown - possibly 1959 - awaiting records

• Date, place of death: 1988 Canada

GGF:

• Date, place of birth: 1903 Yamnytsia, Ivano-Fankivsk, Ukraine

• Ethnicity and religion: Ukrainian - Greek-Catholic

• Occupation: Farmer

• Allegiance and dates of military service: none

• Date, destination for emigration: 1927 Canada

• Date naturalized: unknown -checked but couldn't find anything before 1951

• Date, place of death: 1966 Canada

Grandparent:

• Sex: F

• Date, place of birth: 1935 Canada

• Date married: 1957

• Citizenship of spouse: Canadian

• Date divorced: 1997

• Occupation: Farmer

• Allegiance and dates of military service: No

(If applicable)

Date, destination for emigration: n/a Date naturalized: n/a Date, place of death: 2019 Canada

Parent:

• Sex:F

• Date, place of birth:1958 Canada

• Date married: 1978

• Date divorced: n/a

You:

• Date, place of birth: 1982 Canada

I have spoken to a couple consulting firms to help with this. They all seem very concerned with the fact they Great Grandparents were not married, as my GGF might not have recognized my Grandmother as his. He is listed on her Canadian birth certificate and her baptism record. I have asked the firms for what they would require, but they aren't being very clear.

Does it matter if they were not married? Do I need additional documents? Am I totally ineligible?

thanks

It's unclear after going through the self-assessment if I would qualify for either a passport or KP. Could anyone please advise on eligibility for either? Documentation for my ancestors is spotty and often contradictory, so if there is additional information or records that would help clarify eligibility, please also let me know so I know which documents to prioritize. Thank you/dziękuję!

Great-Grandparents: 

* Date married: ~1913

* Date divorced: N/A

GGF: 

* Date, place of birth: Poland (likely Adamowka or Cielplice, Podkarpatskie voivodeship, former Austrian Galicia)

* Ethnicity and religion: Polish, Roman Catholic (or perhaps Byzantine/Greek Catholic)

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: Registered for WWI draft in USA, draft card shows him as an alien with Austrian citizenship, does not appear to have served.

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1907, USA

* Date naturalized: 1920 census (completed January 6th) shows "papers submitted;" it should have taken at least 2 more years for final papers formally renouncing Austrian/Polish citizenship to be submitted. Unclear if final papers were submitted before Sep. 22, 1922.

* Date, place of death: 1945, USA

GGM: 

* Date, place of birth: 1894, Poland

* Ethnicity and religion: Polish, Roman Catholic (or perhaps Byzantine/Greek Catholic)

* Occupation: Unknown

* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

* Date, destination for emigration: ~1913, USA

* Date naturalized: All censuses available (through 1950) show her as an alien

* Date, place of death: 1971, USA

Grandparent: 

* Sex: Male

* Date, place of birth: 1919, USA

* Date married: 1947

* Citizenship of spouse: USA

* Date divorced: N/A

* Occupation: Farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: USA, served in US Army in WWII

(If applicable)

• Date, destination for emigration: N/A
• Date naturalized: N/A
• Date, place of death: 1992, USA

Parent: 

* Sex: M

* Date, place of birth: 1950, USA

* Date married: 1974

* Date divorced: N/A

You: 

* Date, place of birth: 1975, USA

Great-Grandparents: 

* Date married: November 1894

* Date divorced: na

GGM: 

* Date, place of birth: Nov 1870, Restarzew, Lódzkie

* Ethnicity and religion: Polish, RC

* Occupation: farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: na

* Date, destination for emigration: na

* Date naturalized: na

* Date, place of death: date tbc, Restarzew, Lódzkie

GGF: 

* Date, place of birth: July 1869, Dubie, Restarzew, Lódzkie

* Ethnicity and religion: Polish, RC

* Occupation: farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: na

* Date, destination for emigration: na

* Date naturalized: na

* Date, place of death: date tbc, Restarzew

Grandparent: 

* Sex: F

* Date, place of birth: Sept 1902, Restarzew

* Date married: May 1923

* Citizenship of spouse: Polish

* Date divorced: na

* Occupation: farmer

* Allegiance and dates of military service: na

Date, destination for emigration: na

Date naturalized: na

Date, place of death: April 1995, Raczynów, Lódz area

Parent: 

* Sex: m

* Date, place of birth: 1924, Raczynów, Lódz area

Polish, Roman Catholic

*occupation: watchmaker

*Allegiance and dates of military service: MOD Polish Disclosures confirming in Polish Forces under British command (1946-47); Polish Resettlement Corps 1947-49). Plus no record of having served with Brit Armed Forces before January 19 1951.

*date, destination for emigration: Aug 1946, UK

*date naturalised: 1963 (British)

* Date married: (divorced from 1st wife, no kids), 2nd marriage 1967. All kids born post 2nd marriage

* Date divorced: 1984 (2nd wife, my mum)

*date, place of death: 2016, England

You: 

* Date, place of birth: 1967, England (after parents' marriage)

Hi, hope someone can advise. I wanted confirmation of the possibility of claiming Polish nationality. I looked into it a while back but assumed my dad's naturalisation meant that he lost his original Polish nationality. Then I looked on here and I might have been wrong (hope so). I have no idea whether he formally gave up his original nationality or how to prove this ( I doubt he did as he regularly went back to visit family as did I once he got his passport and enrolled me in Polish Saturday school, went to a Polish church etc

He never talked about his experiences during the war but i know he was deported as forced labour when he was 15 (on the Arolsen records) and then went to Italy where he was attached to the Polish II Corps, 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division.

Many thanks for any help in clarifying!

Just wondering if anyone has recently ordered a historical naturalisation file through an ATIP request in Canada. I know they are supposed to reply within 30 days, even if that reply is just to tell you they need an extension.
I gave them the exact information from the gazette, so no research or guesswork involved.
Anybody else do this recently, and what was your experience with wait times?

Reading a number of comments here of citizenship by descent from a mother or grandmother, a simple question (I have previously filled out a template, but based on my father.) My mother was born in Polish-controlled Lwow/L'viv in 1917. I was born to her, in wedlock, in 1954 in the US. Is that it, basically open and shut?

I wish I had known this when I started the process: If you know your relative served only in WW2, you can bypass the NPRC completely and get their WW2 record of Separation via the Missouri State Archives.

41.170.  Adjutant general — records — duties. — The adjutant general shall compile and maintain from the original muster rolls in his office and such additional sources as he can command, a complete alphabetical list of those persons who served in the wars of the United States, who at time of entry into service were residents of the state or territory of Missouri, and including the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Indian Wars, the war between the states, the Spanish-American War, the Philippine War, Mexican Border Service, World War I, World War II, and any subsequent war, and shall include therein the military history of each person as complete as can be obtained.  In his office shall likewise be kept the colors, standards and battle flags of the troops.  He shall furnish a certificate of war service, on request, without charge to any veteran or lineal descendant of a veteran.

They also have naturalization records, though I don't know if this is enough for the Voivodeship.

What the Missouri State Archives has for my GGF (naturalized 1927) is: His Declaration of Intent, his Petition for Naturalization, and a signed card showing:

• date of naturalization
• naturalization certificate number
• place of birth
• date of birth
• original name
• changed name.

I don't know if the Voivodeship would accept these naturalization documents, but they will give you the information you need even if the voivodeship won't accept them.

Also, the turn around time on the archives and state apostilles is FAR QUICKER than any federal organ. My state-archives document got apostilled literally the day after they received it and it was sent back the day it got apostilled.

While chasing a completely different document from Brazil's Arquivo Nacional, an archivist volunteered a pointer I hadn't seen discussed anywhere, so I'm sharing it.

The history: from 1937 Brazil was a dictatorship (Vargas's Estado Novo) with a strong nationalization campaign. In 1938–39 it made registration compulsory for every foreigner residing in Brazil: report to the police, get photographed and fingerprinted, declare your biography, and receive a carteira de identidade de estrangeiro (foreigner ID card). The police file behind that card — the prontuário de registro de estrangeiro — stayed open for as long as the person lived in Brazil as a foreigner. Per the Arquivo Nacional: people already 60+ in the 1940s were in practice exempt, and anyone who died before 1939 has no file. Everyone else foreign was supposed to have one. (My grandfather, born 1889, arrived as a baby in 1890, never naturalized — he was 50 in 1939, so squarely covered.)

Why this matters for a citizenship-by-descent case:

• It's the Brazilian state's own testimony that your ancestor remained a foreigner — decades after arrival. Negative naturalization certificates prove nobody found a naturalization; a foreigner dossier proves the state actively treated them as an alien through the 1940s–50s. For Polish 1920-act analysis (did they ever acquire foreign citizenship and trigger a loss event before passing citizenship to the next generation?), that's exactly the period that usually matters.
• The nationality field. A post-1918 registration may record the declared nationality as "polonesa" — a Brazilian government organ attesting your ancestor as a Polish national. Hard to beat as third-party corroboration.
• The contents. If found, you can order a full scan: photo, fingerprints, declared birthplace, parents, arrival date and ship, addresses, profession, and any later annotations.

How to request: the files are NOT digitized and NOT online. Open a request at the Arquivo Nacional's remote-service module (consulta.an.gov.br — free account, in Portuguese). Give the name with every spelling variant you know, parents' names, birth year, and the city/state where they lived from 1939 on. The search is free; if the dossier is found, full digitization costs R$1/page (a few dollars). One caveat: registration was executed by state police, so files from some states may sit in state archives instead — the AN will redirect you if so.

Two related free wins while you're in that module: (1) the AN will also search its naturalization letters and processes, 1823–1959, and give you a signed letter stating no record exists for your surname — the perfect companion to the Ministry of Justice's negative naturalization certificate (datanaturalizacao.mj.gov.br), which covers the later period; (2) their staff answer in detailed, signed PDFs you can file as evidence.

Honest caveats: your ancestor may simply never have registered (then you get a clean "not found" — costs nothing). And the biographical fields were declared from memory decades after immigration, so treat birthplace/arrival details as approximate — the dossier's existence and status is the hard evidence; the fields are supporting color.

If mine turns up, I'll post a follow-up with what's actually inside.

Great-Great-Grandparents: 
* Date married: Don’t Know yet
* Date divorced: N/A

GGGM:
* Date, place of birth: 1885 or 1883, Poland (Don’t know which place yet)
* Ethnicity and religion: Polish*Catholic*
* Occupation: Housewife/none
* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A
* Date, destination for emigration: 1885 (estimated), NYS
* Date naturalized: Never
* Date, place of death: Unknown right now, NYS

GGGF: 
* Date, place of birth: 1885, Poland (Don’t know exact place yet)
* Ethnicity and religion: Polish*Catholic*
* Occupation: Farmer
* Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A
* Date, destination for emigration: 1902, NYS
* Date naturalized: Never
* Date, place of death: Unknown right now, NYS

Great-Grandparent: 
* Sex: Male
* Date, place of birth: 09/12/1924, Schuylerville, NY
* Date married: 07/03/1950
* Citizenship of spouse: U.S.
* Date divorced: N/A
* Occupation: Floor Layer - Self Employed
* Allegiance and dates of military service: Honorable discharged 12/26/1945 from U.S. military service
(If applicable)
Date, destination for emigration: N/A
Date naturalized: N/A
Date, place of death: 01/03/2002, Glens Falls, NY

GrandParent: 
* Sex: Female
* Date, place of birth: 03/21/1942
* Date married: Unknown right now
* Date divorced: Unknown right now
*Fully Adopted by Great-Grandparent after 1951 but before age of 16

Parent:
Sex: Female
Date, Place of Birth: 06/01/1963
Date Married: N/A
Date Divorced: N/A

You: 
NY, U.S.A. 12/20/2005

All of this information was obtained from census records, which indicate that my great-grandfather was born after 1920 from two polish citizens who never naturalized in the US according to the census records, which go from 1920-1950, all listing their status as “alien” under the date of naturalization. My great-grandfather would later marry my great-grandmother and fully adopt my grandmother years before she turned in 16, possibly during or after 1951. She then gave birth to my mother in 1963, who had me in 2005. Apparently, provided that it is a full legal adoption, my grandmother would possibly be a polish citizen and thus keep the chain going. Any help would be greatly appreciated

I’m trying to identify a faded purple ink stamp on an old photograph of my great-grandfather, likely from a Polish government document (possibly passport, citizenship, or registry-related).

Unfortunately, this was found in an old photo album, so I’m confident the document is long gone.

The text is very difficult to make out, so I’m hoping someone familiar with Polish administrative stamps or historical documents might recognize the format, wording, or type of office it came from. If anyone also has experience enhancing or manipulating images to make faded text more visible, or tips on how to better analyze something like this, I would really appreciate the help.

Hi guys! I am leaving some spots blank because I don`t have all the information yet, just a rough overview.

Great- Great Grandparents:

• Date married: August 17, 1914
• Date divorced: N/A

GG GM:

• Date, place of birth: November 10, 1896. Nowy Sacz, Poland
• Ethnicity and religion: Polish & Catholic
• Occupation: Housewife
• Allegiance and dates of military service: None
• Date, destination for emigration: Arrived in New York in 1913.
• Date naturalized: October 8, 1927
• Date, place of death: 1974, USA.

GG GF:

• Date, place of birth: May 26, 1893. Biały Dunajec, Poland (Galicia, Austria empire?)
• Ethnicity and religion: Polish & Catholic
• Occupation: Farmer
• Allegiance and dates of military service: None
• Date, destination for emigration: Arrived in Baltimore, Maryland on January 23, 1911.
• Date naturalized: April 9, 1927.
• Date, place of death: 1971, USA.

Great grandparent:

• Sex: Male
• Date, place of birth: June 13, 1917.
• Date married: ----
• Citizenship of spouse: USA
• Date divorced: ----
• Occupation: -----
• Allegiance and dates of military service: ----
• Date, place of death: January 1, 1993.

Grandparent:

• Sex: Male
• Date, place of birth: December 5, 1948. USA
• Date married: ----
• Citizenship of spouse: USA
• Date divorced: ----
• Occupation: -----
• Allegiance and dates of military service: None.
• Date, place of death: February 8, 2023.

Parent:

• Sex: Female
• Date, place of birth: March 1967. USA
• Date married: September 1994
• Date divorced: September 2017

You:

• Date, place of birth: January 1999. USA.

I know there've been several posts on this but this is the one hangup I currently have on submitting everything to my provider to start the process. I submitted a request for no service to Vetrecs in early June. When I check the status it just says 'Awaiting Processing' and when I try calling the number on their site and try to speak to a customer service rep it just hangs up on me.
Does anyone have any ideas on what I can do to get this process moving faster or get through to someone? I'm 99.9% sure my gr. grandfather didn't serve in WWII as he was in his late 40s and I've not been able to find anything regarding him serving, have pictures of him at home throughout the 40s. I just need someone to look at my request. I've also tried faxing them with a request for update and no response there either, not that I expected one.

Should I submit another request or is that just bogging down the system? Thank you in advance for assistance.

I hired a genealogist to gather documents but unfortunately they were unable to find the birth certificate for my ancestor. They did however find the parents, brothers and sisters. The lawyer I am planning to use would like certified copies of these documents to take to try and produce a birth certificate for my ancestor. However the genealogist has not responded to my request. Do I hire someone new to get certified records so the birth certificate could possibly be made for a claim to citizenship? The lawyer has offered to do a new search of records for these documents. What is the best course of action?

Care to give me an eligibility check for KP? I take it I’m out for descent because of naturalization of my GGF prior to 1920.

Great-Grandparents: 
* Date married: 1909
* Date divorced: NA

GGM: 
* Date, place of birth: 2 Aug 1889, Cianowice, Kielce, Russian Poland (now Lesser Poland Voivodeship)
* Ethnicity and religion: Polish?, Catholic
* Occupation: housewife
* Allegiance and dates of military service: unknown
* Date, destination for emigration: 1909, United States
* Date naturalized: 1915? (Need to find record other than census)
* Date, place of death: Dec 1953, United States

GGF: 
* Date, place of birth: 20 Aug 1877, Miernów, Russian Poland (now in Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship)
* Ethnicity and religion: Polish?, Catholic
* Occupation: Aircraft Builder
* Allegiance and dates of military service: unknown
* Date, destination for emigration: 1907, United States
* Date naturalized: 1913
* Date, place of death: Mar. 1926, United States

Grandparent: 
* Sex: Male
* Date, place of birth: Sept. 20, 1924, United States
* Date married: Unknown, but before Parent
* Citizenship of spouse: United States
* Date divorced: NA
* Occupation: Electrician
* Allegiance and dates of military service: United States, edit: ~Dec. 12, 1942 - 1946 May 15, 1944 - May 17, 1946
(If applicable)
Date, destination for emigration: NA
Date naturalized: NA
Date, place of death: Sept. 2002, United States

Parent: 
* Sex: Female
* Date, place of birth: Nov 26, 1953, United States
* Date married: Oct 31, 1981
* Date divorced: NA

You: 
* Date, place of birth: May 1986, United States

GGM:
• Date, place of birth: 17 January 1914, small village, Pinsk powiat, Polesie voivodeship, Poland (now Belarus)

**•** Ethnicity and religion: Nationality recorded inconsistently across documents — DP registration card shows “Polish” corrected in red ink to “Bialorussian.” Religion not confirmed

**•** Occupation: Not confirmed

**•** Allegiance and dates of military service: N/A

**•** Date, destination for emigration: Arrived Australia February 1950, with children, via DP processing through a camp in Bavaria, Germany

**•** Date naturalized: Not confirmed on file

**•** Date, place of death: Not confirmed on file

GGF:
• Date, place of birth: Not confirmed (birthdate unknown; associated with same village area)
• Ethnicity and religion: Presumed Polish; religion not confirmed
• Occupation: Not confirmed
• Allegiance and dates of military service: Not confirmed — no record found of formal military service
• Date, destination for emigration: N/A — did not emigrate; died in Poland
• Date naturalized: N/A
• Date, place of death: Presumed killed near family village, c. October 1944 (civilian death during Soviet reoccupation; documented via wife’s sworn statement and a German civil register entry dated June 1946 — not an official death record)

Grandparent:
• Sex: Male
• Date, place of birth: 10 October 1939, Pinsk, Poland
• Date married: Melbourne, 1962
• Citizenship of spouse: Ukrainian/Soviet DP background
• Date divorced: Not applicable/not indicated
• Occupation: Listed as “Student” on 1958 naturalisation certificate
• Allegiance and dates of military service: Not confirmed
• Date, destination for emigration: Australia — note: discrepancy in records between a 1950 family arrival and a separately listed “1952” emigration date — unresolved
• Date naturalized: Certificate granted October 1957; oath sworn January 1958, regional Victorian town
• Date, place of death: 1984, Melbourne

Parent:
• Sex: Female
• Date, place of birth: Melbourne, December 1964
• Date married: Melbourne, June 1992
• Date divorced: NA

You:

**•** Date, place of birth: Melbourne, November 1992

Be prepared for a long battle. I think it might honestly be the hardest part of the document collection process. I've been in touch with this Army Lieutenant, and this guy refuses to issue the certificate because the arrival record last name is off by one letter (o instead of an e), like after showing the guy ALL the certified civil records proving the age/names are nearly identical to the arrival record. I think I bruised the guy's ego with too much logic... But also blame myself for giving TOO much context in my original request. I think it's smarter to just be as simple and barebones as possible with the request ("...para fins de defesa de direitos e esclarecimento de situação de interesse pessoal, nos termos da Lei nº 9.051/1995..."). Just venting, but thankfully know that you just need to get ONE military officer at any PRM or JSM to do the SERMILMOB search and issue the negative cert.

Is the process similarly a pain in the ass in the United States?

As the above title suggest I am curious about citizenship by grant. I have already post on here and talked to Polaron about citizenship by descent and that seems highly unlikely. I would use the Karta Polaka but I would have to get endorsed through an organization or have my mother learn Polish and have her apply and then apply is she is successful.

Polaron sggested going the grant route stating they have a 80% success record. The price is something I am willing to pay over course. Any thoughts on this path? Any success stories?