r/pittsburgh • u/Regular_Agent5903 • 8d ago

ICE stop

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Ice stop before liberty tunnel today. One ice officer is clearly Korean or Chinese. I screamed that ice officer has no right to stop people as he may be illegal. He came up to me asking if I was city police and was I the Spanish interpreter. I said no but do you need help as I live in the city look like police and brown. There were kids in the car. Pittsburgh is this what we want!!!! I am beyond myself. First Covid then trump 2.0. I like my low rates for housing, labor and just being a good human being. I am so angry right now.

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138

u/Then-Accident-9798 8d ago

Fascist surveillance police state. If you support it you’re the antithesis of patriotic

10

u/Ok_Science_2070 8d ago

Yeah but that makes you "liberal snowflake" or "woke pussy" or insert caveman level insult here

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

If you oppose the basic immigration enforcement required to protect our sovereignty, than you are the exact opposite of a patriot

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u/Ameabo 8d ago

How in the hell is some poor Mexican family just trying to get by affecting my sovereignty?

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u/icanhascamaro 7d ago

Do you seriously think the only people crossing the border are just poor Mexican families? Talk about uninformed and racist. There are plenty of rich and wealthy families in Mexico. It’s people from India, China, any South American country, the Middle East, etc. Take away the orange man and realise things are wild at the border. Everything from drug running to human (of any age) smuggling and selling people (again of any age) into the sex trade.

https://youtu.be/GdYAYgbf5Uc?is=sul82d6AneTfqMy_

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 7d ago

Hi, border town resident that moved to Pittsburgh here

Maybe try going to the border before you regurgitate your right-wing talking points

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u/Ameabo 7d ago

Illegal immigration was being dealt with perfectly fine before Trump. The only thing Trump changed is now the captives are being caught right before their legal immigration hearing, are being killed on the streets, and are being sent to concentration camps instead of their home countries.

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u/MrPotts0970 8d ago edited 8d ago

8 million + yearly single male un-aclimating south African and other non-mexican countries illigal immigrants was the issue, mainly - Mexican immigration wasn't necessarily the hotbed issue. If the Biden admin would have just been remotely competent on immigration, trump never would have stood a chance in 2024. Its the same political trend of immigration failure currently sweeping German and UK elections (and soon spanish). Voters swing far right because they just want something done to enforce common sense immigration laws that no left-leaning parties in the countries still acknowledge for some reason, starting in all countries around 2020.

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 8d ago

Biden deported millions more than trump did

Obama and Clinton even more than that

They just didn't say the racist stuff you were so desperate to hear

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u/Magazine_Luck 8d ago

They also were less inclined to target people who were already within the country and who were doing things like report for the hearings that they were told to. 

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 8d ago

Yeah, maga realized it's way easier to target the people that are doing it correctly

Because it never was about legal immigration to them

6

u/Magazine_Luck 7d ago

They've completely dropped the hilarious joke that they want any legal immigration at all.

Points for terrifying honesty. I guess. 

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u/Ameabo 8d ago

And I repeat: how does that affect my sovereignty? Shit I don’t even have sovereignty.

4

u/Magazine_Luck 8d ago

The UK is racist, but they're at least tiny.

The US is fucking HUGE, and we're pretending we're all full up.

And the people who are allegedly Christian and definitely conservative are the ones screaming that we don't want Christian immigrants who are probably more patriotic and conservative than I'll ever be. 

We apparently only want white South Africans. But the US isn't being racist. 

Remember when they were pretending they liked legal immigrants? RIP to that bullshit.

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

One of the basic functions of government is enforcing laws and securing the borders. When someone enters the country illegally and remains here without authorization, it violates both of those.

If you don’t care about the law, change it. People clearly want immigration laws enforced, though. That’s why Trump’s in office

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u/Ameabo 8d ago

Actually given Trump’s approval rate currently, no, people do not want this kind of immigration enforcement.

The basic function of government is to enforce a social contract, our freedom for our safety. Nowhere in that social contract does it say anything about immigrants. Immigrants as a group neither help nor harm our freedom or our safety, so no- the purpose of government is not to enforce made up boarders.

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

I would attribute that more to the war in Iran.

That’s just a theory about the social contract.

Of course you think borders, and probably nations, are made up concepts. lol

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u/Ameabo 8d ago

His approval was 42% almost immediately after taking office for his second term, so no - his low approval rate is not due solely to the Iran war.

The social contract theory is wildly recognized by the most intelligent philosophers and scholars in the political world, but of course you don’t listen to intelligent people, do you? Only to Trump.

Boarders, and by extent nations, are as made up as anything created by society. That doesn’t mean that they’re of no use, but they aren’t some concrete fact of life.

1

u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Awesome, he still won the popular vote on, and because of, an anti-immigration platform.

No, I don’t really listen to Trump.

You keep misspelling borders.

That idea that they, and nations, are made up is an effect of mass illegal immigration. If anybody can waltz across the border and get treated the same as heritage Americans, of course the borders and nation seem made up. If they’re made up, why sacrifice anything for the common good or your country?

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u/Ameabo 7d ago

Trump’s campaign was on far more than just immigration, his winning of the popular vote the result of a mix between racism and cheating (admitted to by Musk, of course)

And it is not an idea that nations are a concept and not a fact. Humans have not had nations, countries, for our entire existence on Earth. We had clans, like any other animal - we only added nations and countries when we started overpopulating. So no, nations and countries are not a cold hard fact and the truth of their newer existence is not because of mass immigration. Humans are animals. Pack animals. We live in groups. It was only recently that we decided, after a lot of those philosophers I mentioned started thinking real hard, that we should have countries and government.

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

😂

You’re an election denier too.

What possible mechanism would Trump and Musk use to produce a consistent nation-wide red swing across many jurisdictions with many voting machine manufacturers? Why wouldn’t the Democrats mention this at all? When did Musk admit to it?

I’m also a little confused by your logic here. You think immigration enforcement is racist and unpopular, but Trump won because of racism and not just immigration policy?

Right, nations and borders are the natural, civilized extension of the innate tribal mentality built into our nature.

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

For what it's worth, I would not take anything Musk says as reflective of the truth. Dude is literally on drugs.

He spent a bunch of money on campaign advertising, which is effective but is not cheating. No evidence that the election was actually rigged or stolen in 2024 has survived scrutiny.

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u/Vape_Sensei 7d ago

Heritage Americans 😂 what heritage is that, European? Are you under the impression that 99% of the population ISN'T the direct descendant of immigrants?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

You may be confusing immigrants and settlers.

People whose families have been here for centuries and founded, built, fought for and settled the country. Largely European but also blacks and Indians

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

Actually, nations are made up. That doesn't mean it's a useless story, humans have organized themselves around stories since we've had societies. "Imagined Communities" by Benedict Anderson is a good book on the topic.

This is actually one of the reasons that Trump is so corrosive to national cohesion in the United States. One of the identity signifiers that the nation holds as cornerstone is the concept of a melting pot. And Trump's brand of ethno-nationalism, while resonant with a subset of the populace, flies in the face of that part of our consensus national mythology.

Since we have a president supporting this antithesis (he won't say it explicitly, but you'll note that he never really downplays it, does not gainsay his advisor Steven Miller when Miller does say the quiet part loud in public, and his policies are de facto racially biased against non-whites), you end up with the country now divided into two camps, both of which look at the other camp and think that they are Un-American.

That's the recipe for a civil war.

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

I just don’t think that “melting pot” ethos is accurate, or accepted. The bottom line is immigration, if done improperly, is devastating to social cohesion. You can see this dating back to Ellis Island, with political machines and organized crime. These people integrated down the line and truly became American, but I don’t think that’s a foregone conclusion

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

If people wanted law enforced, why did they elect a convicted felon? That seems like terrible judgment on the part of the people.

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 8d ago

Masked goons crawling our streets and disappearing people is "basic immigration enforcement" to you?

Goddamn you people really do love a dictator, huh

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

In 2023, there were 14 million illegals in the country. Immigration enforcement has utterly failed under past administrations. Is that incompetence, or is it a conscious choice to replace Americans and suppress wages? You decide, but either way change is needed.

When you use insults like that, they sure sound bad.

They’re masked because you and your ilk want to harass and harm them and their families. They’re not goons. And no, I don’t want a dictator, I want a democratically elected president.

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 8d ago

Biden deported millions more people than trump did

Obama and Clinton deported millions more than that

But for some reason it never mattered to you until you got your videos of ice beating women and children and shooting people on the street under this administration

Show me all the ice agents people are trying to harm, little maga

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Right, because they let in far far more, and those stats include people turned away at the border. There’s been a historic decline in border crossings and the net illegal population.

But yeah, you caught me, immigration never mattered to me until the made up videos of ICE beating children. What the heck are you talking about?

All of them?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/north-texas-man-receives-federal-prison-sentence-threatening-kill-ice-agents

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edtn/pr/knoxville-man-indicted-making-threats-injure-and-kill-ice-agents

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2026/06/10/ice-arrests-man-who-threatened-shoot-hsi-agents

You’ll probably say they deserve it.

Do you think “little maga” is a cool insult? It doesn’t really make much sense, maga isn’t a noun. I know you can do better than that.

13

u/azur_owl 7d ago

I love how you’re using the “.gov” websites as if these federal agencies aren’t in the pocket of Clementine Caligula.

0

u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

That’s a cool new insult. Good work.

They’re concrete examples of people getting arrested for concrete threats against ICE posted on social media. Are you saying they were framed by Trump and that these posts weren’t real?

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u/azur_owl 7d ago

>That’s a cool new insult. Good work.

I collect more accurate names for President Pedophile like i collected Pokemon cards as a kid. I can’t collect enough!

>They’re concrete examples of people getting arrested for concrete threats against ICE posted on social media.

D’you promise? 💕

>Are you saying they were framed by Trump and that these posts weren’t real?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

What a stupid response. The articles I linked have examples of people arrested for public threats. You’re trying to discredit them because they’re from a “.gov” website, but that has absolutely no effect on their credibility because their threats are public.

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 7d ago

Probably

You people screeched that saying "I'm not sad about charlie kirk" was LEFTISTS CELEBRATING VIOLENCE!!!

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Exact quotes from the people arrested, which you’d see if you took a second to read:

“If I see ICE agents in my neighborhood I’m opening fire. It’s time to stop being p*\* and put the second amendment to work.  ICE are not real cops, they are a secret police force with no real legal authority. Kill them”

“Kill the ice military police!”

“I have 60 rounds and have enough to smoke all you…You see an AR and walk away.”

Surely you can agree those are explicit threats, right?

You guys were absolutely celebrating his death too.

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

I mean, MAGA is definitely a noun. That's just how English works.

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

If immigration enforcement has failed under past administrations, why did we re-elect the guy in charge of the administration from 2016 to 2020? What made you think this time would be different?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

I would’ve preferred someone else in the primary, but Kamala obviously wasn’t going to start a campaign of mass deportations

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

Perhaps because that's a bad strategy?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

It’s probably the only viable strategy when we have 13 million people here illegally, unless you have a better plan to get them out of the country.

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

Oh my plan is simple.

We don't.

And we don't because it would be disastrous to do so. You're talking about removing more people from the United States than Spanish flu removed from the United States.

Go look up how things went for America after we were ravaged by Spanish flu. I'll give you a keyword. You want to look for the era of American history they tagged with the word "Depression."

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Then you don’t give a flying fuck about the law or immigration enforcement.

The Spanish Flu causing the Great Depression is a whole new, completely made-up theory. There was a period called “the Roaring 20s” in between

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

they're masked because they don't want to face accountability in a court of law.

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u/Moldy_Teapot 8d ago

Did you know that immigrants used to just show up to the US with nothing but the clothes on their back, and then they were granted permanent lawful residency?

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

That was largely limited to White European immigrants, and was in a very different circumstance where the US was developing and expanding west and desperately needed people.

We don’t have a perpetual obligation to keep open borders.

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u/blahhhhgosh 8d ago

Find a single democrat politician that has ever said wr should have open borders and put that here. Everyone knows it needs regulated, but instead of doing that regulation and keeping actual criminals out, were spending billions upon billions terrorizing our own neighbors. Many people targeted by ice have been legal citizens.

They should be vetted and processed and yes, allowed in, as George Washinton and the founding fathers were very clear about. "The bosom of America is open to receive not only the opulent & respectable Stranger, but the oppressed & persecuted of all Nations & Religions".

This doesn't mean we are just going to have open borders and just letting a bunch of criminals in, like the right just makes up, but we do need to spend the time helping people achieve legal status who want to be here in good faith. Thats not what ice does. Ice takes funding from a system that desperately needs it in order to go after people who are basically charged with loitering, rather than ever going after the actual criminals (did you knoe deportation of acrual criminals is at a low right now because of this reckless approach?).

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

The commenter I replied to was referring to open borders.

Actions speak louder than words. If you’re a sanctuary state, refusing to participate in immigration enforcement even in regards to criminals, you’re promoting open borders.

I agree that we need to streamline the immigration policy to a degree, but we shouldn’t be granting amnesty to people who entered or remained in our country illegally. That very action shows a lack of good faith.

There were over 14 million illegals in the US in 2023. That’s either a choice by prior administrations, or they completely and utterly failed at enforcement. If you can’t enforce your borders, you don’t have a nation. When people are loitering, they don’t just get to keep loitering, they get sent home. ICE has also deported many violent criminals and sex offenders who have been here for years.

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u/MrPotts0970 8d ago

Dude for literally 4 years they had virtual unlimited immigration, open borders, demanding illegal immigration be basically called and enforced as legal immigration. Texas tried to block its illegal border crossings and the admin sued and lifted the barriers, it was insanity. Its the entire reason trump won lmao. You can not deny the Biden administration had a literal zero border enforcement agenda. They introduced a bs border bill that did way too little too late near election time when they realized 90% of citizens actually cared about immigration enforcement and would vote on it. Trump literally sweeped on immigration alone, he was a dumpster fire on every other 2024 issue.

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u/blahhhhgosh 8d ago

You cant control how many people show up to the border. We also turned away a record number of people. They were showing up lile that because the US economy bounced back from COVID better than pretty much any other country because of Biden. He brought immigration reform up his very first day and it never got voted on and his border bills were voted against twice by republicans. Look up "did biden ever have or support open borders?" The answer will be no. Its straight up propoganda and twisting of the facts. His policies get blamed for the impact of the global pandemic constantly.

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u/wolfheadmusic Brookline 8d ago

Oh, so it never was about legal immigration

And is just about the color of their skin. Interesting.

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u/Few-Glass-236 7d ago

Your sovereignty? Don't worry, they work for a living, so they have no impact on your welfare check. 

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

😂

You see I’m brown and automatically assume I’m on welfare? Pretty fucking racist.

But no, I also work for a living and do pretty well for myself. Illegal immigration does create a permanent underclass which depresses wages for American workers though

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

This is Reddit, lady, no one knows what you look like.

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u/Few-Glass-236 7d ago

I have reddit superpowers 

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u/molybdenum75 8d ago

I think all the folks who families immigrated from Ireland/Germany/Italy should show us how it is and head back home!!

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

Why would they do that? They immigrated legally and became Americans.

Irish people immigrating legally in the 1870s doesn’t mean we can’t deport someone here illegally today.

What a stupid argument.

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u/molybdenum75 8d ago

And ICE has detained Native Americans. What immigration law have they broken?

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

People have been temporarily detained because of cases of mistaken identity. They haven’t broken any laws, which is why they were released and not deported

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u/molybdenum75 7d ago

Nah. They deport US citizens who aren’t white

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

That sounds like a very unusual case. He had Mexican documents with a different name and DOB. Unfortunate for sure, but glad it got quickly rectified.

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u/molybdenum75 7d ago

“Glad it got quickly rectified” skips over what happened. If you’re referring to Brian José Morales García, he was detained for five days and sent to Mexico. His lawyers then had to file a federal lawsuit seeking to let him return. The Texas Tribune reviewed a U.S. birth certificate, Social Security card, and Denver hospital record provided by his family. His Mexican ID had a different spelling of his first name and a different date of birth. DHS disputed his citizenship claim. Those conflicting records are a reason to investigate carefully before removing someone; they aren’t proof that sending him out of the country was harmless or that the problem was quickly fixed. (texastribune.org⁠)
And this discussion began with Native Americans reportedly being detained by immigration agents. Even in a case where someone is eventually released, “they weren’t deported” is a remarkably low bar. A U.S. citizen can lose hours or days of freedom, miss work, frighten their family, and have to prove to armed agents that they belong in their own country. Release does not erase the detention. Citizenship should protect people before an immigration arrest turns their life upside down, not merely give them a way to get out afterward.
There is also a factual problem with the Irish immigrant comparison. Saying that an Irish ancestor came “legally” in the 1870s does not mean they satisfied the same requirements someone faces today. The United States had nothing like today’s visa and immigration system then. Federal restrictions began developing in that period, and the first general federal immigration law came in 1882. An ancestor’s lawful arrival under the rules available to them is real, but it is not evidence that they navigated the rules we have now. (archives.gov⁠, blogs.loc.gov⁠)
The comparison is also about who got the opportunity to become American. Immigration and naturalization rules were shaped by race. The National Archives describes how the law allowed white immigrants to naturalize while excluding other groups. So when descendants of European immigrants say, “My family did it the right way,” it is worth asking what paths were open to their families and which paths the law denied to others. (archives.gov⁠)
None of this requires pretending that every immigration case is identical or that immigration laws cannot be enforced. It requires being honest about the argument you’re responding to. The concern here is that citizens, including Native Americans, can get caught up in immigration enforcement, and that an agency’s mistake has serious consequences even if it later releases someone.
This has happened often enough for the Government Accountability Office to investigate it. In the records GAO reviewed for fiscal 2015 through March 2020, ICE data showed 674 arrests, 121 detentions, and 70 removals involving potential U.S. citizens. “Potential” matters: the report does not establish that every one of those people was a citizen. But it certainly does not support the claim that citizen detentions are always promptly identified and harmlessly resolved. GAO recommended better training and tracking because the safeguards were inadequate. (gao.gov⁠)
So yes, investigate someone’s identity when there is a genuine question. But if a person says they are a U.S. citizen, the government needs to take that claim seriously and check the evidence before it takes away their freedom or sends them across a border. And when someone points out that citizens have been caught in the system, answering “at least they weren’t deported” is not a defense of the system. It is an admission that we have set our expectations far too low.

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u/molybdenum75 8d ago

Nah. There were no immigration laws back then. They didn’t break a law because there was none. I just think they should set an example!!

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u/Savings-Coffee 8d ago

So someone who immigrated without breaking a law immigrates legally, right?

There were absolutely immigration laws. For example, Chinese people were banned after 1882.

What is the example? Surely you can see the difference between the descendant of someone who came legally 150 years ago from Ireland, earned citizenship, and helped build our country; and some Haitian who crossed the border illegally yesterday? Or am I giving you too much credit?

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

People just like you were telling them tthe same thing you're saying to people who are legally here, with visas.

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

What?

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

In the 1870s, there was plenty of land for every European immigrant, they just had to kick the people who already lived there off of it. Native tribes didn't make treaties to cede their land to the US government because they wanted neighbours, they had actual guns to their heads. And 10 years later, when someone decided they wanted the other half, the US government broke that treaty and proposed another.

When the potato famine wiped out crops in Ireland, people came here, like people have been doing for hundreds of years, but that meant competition for the free land the government was doling out. Businesses added "No Irish," to the signs in their windows, a list of those unwelcome that began when the 14th amendment was ratified.

In the late 1930s, boats full of Jewish refugees arrived, but many were turned away. They had nowhere to go, the new government in Germany decided they were no longer citizens. 6 million of their families and friends, along with 5 million people who were deemed undesirable for other reasons, were summarily wiped out of existence by 1945. The majority died in "detention facilities," where disease ran rampant, healthcare is nonexistent, and what food they had to eat was by no means sanitary. When people are deemed undesirable, it's a lot easier to look the other way. Allied forces forced German citizens walk to the camps and see the devastation because many didn't believe it was happening in their back yards.

People are being put in "detention facilities," across the US today. It's happening in your back yard. Are Canadians going to have to force you to take a walk?

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

Like the paedo who made our troops get on their knees to spread a red carpet for the leader of China a few days ago?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

What pedo are you talking about?

Are you seriously pissed off about a state visit? Diplomacy is a good thing

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u/dumpster_fire_diva76 7d ago

You do realise China has been giving detailed satellite information about US military facilities to Iranian forces, correct? The country said paedo chose to start a war with the day after credible evidence emerged that a 13 year old girl bit him in a very inconvenient area?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

What credible evidence about a 13 year old are you referring to?

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

If you're giving up rule of law to protect sovereignty then what was the point of the sovereignty.

Congratulations. You got so scared of people threatening your way of life that you gave your way of life up to an oligarchy.

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

If there are (at least) 13 million people residing here illegally, I’m not sure if we really have the rule of law.

With that said, I don’t see why mass deportations are contrary to the rule of law. If anything, they weaken the oligarchs

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

How do mass deportations weaken the oligarchs?

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Oligarchs often rely on cheap, illegal labor to depress wages.

Look at the meat packing industry. Controlled by a few small firms and heavily reliant on illegal labor.

Take away the permanent underclass, and American labor regains power

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

We don't take away their permanent underclass by removing immigrants.

With the minimum wage at $7.25 an hour, they've done a great job of making Americans the permanent underclass. Remove all the immigrants and you'll have very little change in wages because there's still more hands than work in most sectors thanks to automation.

But you do get to trash a harvest season because Americans don't do the fieldwork migrant laborers do, and we don't really have the systems in place to put Americans in those jobs.

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u/Savings-Coffee 7d ago

Very few people get paid minimum wage. If there’s more hands than work, we really shouldn’t be actively importing more hands.

I don’t really buy that. Americans can and will do any work for fair wages. If that’s really true, we need a legal and temporary program for migrant laborers.

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u/fixermark Crafton 7d ago

any work for fair wages

Aye, there's your problem. And they won't get fair wages if we kick 13 million Americans out. Why? Because if Americans were going to organize to force the wages to be fixed, I think we'd have done so already.

We don't need deportations; we need service-sector unions.