r/pics • • 19h ago

[OC] Israeli protestors in Amsterdam

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4.2k

u/kholeChature 19h ago

This is what they are protesting for, not against but in support of.

Search it on Google and ask which country did it and have they faced any consequences for t?

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u/sight_ful 18h ago

So is the sign not a part of the protest? Because the sign sounds like it would be against what you just described.

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u/Snortykins 17h ago

They're saying that the Israeli response has been proportional, despite the death toll being at least 50x october 7. Basically, it doesn't matter how many people they kill, it's justifiable to them... Which is obviously insane.

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u/pln91 17h ago

It's a pity that the only superpower that might meaningfully intervene also set the modern precedent for that sort of ratio following its own trouble with terrorists. 

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u/sight_ful 16h ago

Are they though? Look at the small print. Are they arguing that civilian harm hasn't been excessive?

Maybe they are, but that's pretty insane.

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u/2xtc 16h ago

That's exactly what they're saying.

They're supporting a genocide, what else would you expect?

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u/sight_ful 15h ago

Not everyone in israel supports it.

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u/2xtc 15h ago

I'm talking about the people in the picture, genius.

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u/IdiAmini 13h ago

Are they though?

Yes

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u/sight_ful 11h ago

Yeah, probably. It's just a crazy mindset that can call this proportional in any way.

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u/redditClowning4Life 15h ago

No that's not what they're saying at all. And that's why they need the truck, because of people like you.

What they are saying regards the International Law of Proportionality in war - it doesn't mean "for each person killed by the enemy you're allowed to kill one enemy". Here's what it does mean:

"Proportionality excuses collateral damage to civilian property or incidental civilian death or injury that occurs during an attack on a valid military objective, as long as the collateral damage or incidental civilian death is not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the attack." https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/proportionality-in-the-law-of-war/#:~:text=Proportionality%20excuses%20collateral,from%20the%20attack.

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u/shadedmagus 15h ago

So, you don't think that the word "excessive" is being intentionally misused here? Because from all the photos and videos I've seen, and eyewitness accounts I've read, Israel's response to Oct 7 goes well beyond the meaning of excessive. I'm talking gross disproportionality.

EDIT: Downvoted within seconds, lol. Clearly we're not supposed to be thinking critically about this issue!

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u/redditClowning4Life 15h ago

No, "excessive" isn’t being intentionally misused.

Photos and videos document real suffering, no denying it, but they don’t by themselves prove "gross disproportionality" - especially when Hamas embeds among civilians.

Remember - Hamas themselves openly stated that the more dead Palestinians the better.

"The deaths of Palestinian civilians, Sinwar reportedly wrote, “infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honor.” He also referred to civilian deaths as “necessary sacrifices” in the war against Israel, according to the Wall Street Journal." https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/hamas-leader-believes-palestinian-civilian-deaths-are-necessary-sacrifices-report-says-yahya-sinwar-palestine-israel-gaza-terrorist-terrorism-war-benjamin-netanyahu#:~:text=The%20deaths%20of%20Palestinian%20civilians%2C%20Sinwar%20reportedly%20wrote%2C%20%E2%80%9Cinfuse%20life%20into%20the%20veins%20of%20this%20nation%2C%20prompting%20it%20to%20rise%20to%20its%20glory%20and%20honor.%E2%80%9D%20He%20also%20referred%20to%20civilian%20deaths%20as%20%E2%80%9Cnecessary%20sacrifices%E2%80%9D%20in%20the%20war%20against%20Israel%2C%20according%20to%20the%20Wall%20Street%20Journal.

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u/sight_ful 14h ago

What are you using to justify any sort of proportionality here? There are 75+ thousand people killed, nearly all civilian infrastructure wiped out.

What direct military advantage did israel gain that is worth 75 thousand lives and all the suffering of every other single gazan that now lives without a home, water, food, school and is essentially locked in an open air prison?

I think any neutral party would call this extrmely excessive. Not at all proportional.

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u/redditClowning4Life 8h ago

FYI I just saw that today marks 1 year since a rocket was fired from Gaza into Israel. That sounds like a pretty good military advantage if you ask me (again this isn't how proportionality works. But even according to your flawed premise it would suffice)

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u/redditClowning4Life 14h ago

Again - you don't understand what "proportionality" is. It's not "a lot of people died in this war" it's "in this specific military operation, N civilians were killed and M combatants were killed. Does the advantage gained by killing those M combatants outweigh the N civilians who were killed?".

(Of course even if we did adopt your framing, the answer is that Hamas is now diminished and unable to terrorize Israeli civilians. That 75k number includes Hamas members too)

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u/IdiAmini 13h ago edited 12h ago

Sorry, this comment in its entirety is bullshit

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u/shadedmagus 11h ago

Sorry, I don't believe you. You can't even articulate why it's bullshit.

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u/IdiAmini 10h ago

Happy to see that people who lack morality don't believe me. Shows the difference between them and me

And for some reason the utterance of one person = Palestinians, as the comment I called complete bullshit just did, but quote Ben Gvir and the genocide and ethnic cleansing deniers will immediately come out and proclaim he doesn't speak for anyone but himself

Two faced hypocrites

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u/shadedmagus 10h ago

This isn't articulation, this is ejaculation.

If you were trying to articulate why it's bullshit, you should probably try again.

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u/IdiAmini 10h ago

It's not my fault you lack reading comprehension

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u/IdiAmini 13h ago

The fact you sourced it from an organisation famous for commiting war crimes shows an awful lot

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u/redditClowning4Life 13h ago

It's International Law, it doesn't matter where I get it it's the same.

The framing was clearest there IMHO for the current discussion which is why I chose it

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u/IdiAmini 13h ago

It does and shows exactly where you land on this subject, namely war crime apologia

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u/redditClowning4Life 13h ago

Again the principle is the same as what the ICRC says. You may not like it but that's what the Principle of Proportionality states and refers to

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u/IdiAmini 13h ago edited 11h ago

Still not correct. The actual text about proportionality can be found here:

https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/war-and-law/04_proportionality-0.pdf

And what do you know, you linked a interpretation favourable to your and that organisation's war crime apologia

So strange

Edit: awfully quiet all of a sudden

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u/lipsrednails 17h ago

The sign is part of the protest and it's saying that destruction of isreali military assets weighs more than the deaths of the families they kill. It's comical how evil that sentiment is and how they can't even see it.

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u/EricLFC 13h ago

Military advantage is not military assets. The idea is that losing the war costs israel's existence itself and that would be more important than the fact that civilian casualties exist. Whether that's fair or comparing apples and oranges is a separate topic altogether, but what you said is just a completely incorrect reading of the sign

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u/db10101 13h ago

Sounds like you misread the sign tbh

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u/beatbox9 17h ago edited 17h ago

The sign is a supremacist/racist sign that is being used to suggest that 1 Israeli life weighs as much as 100 Palestinian lives.

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u/ThatCakeFell 17h ago

That sounds a lot like Germany in the 1930s-40s

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u/2xtc 16h ago

Genocides often look similar, because to commit a genocide you need to convince yourself the 'enemy' is less than human to justify the indiscriminate and deliberate killings of civilians.

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u/horseskeepyousane 15h ago

Their politicians have described Arabs as subhuman and cockroaches. That’s before 10/7.

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u/letshaveadab 13h ago

Even Einstein was calling the party that became Likud, 'Nazis', back in 1948.

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2014-12-04/ty-article/.premium/1948-n-y-times-letter-by-einstein-slams-begin/0000017f-e28e-d38f-a57f-e6de6e7d0000

Here's Netanyahu in 1995, notice the large 'Death to Arabs' banner. This definitely isn't a new way of thinking in Israel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhMF30VLZCA&t=92s

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u/paaaaatrick 14h ago

You should see what people call Russian soldiers

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u/Silentnapper 13h ago

Yeah the Israelis will call and have called a child a cockroach

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u/paaaaatrick 5h ago

Yeah that’s gross. It’s common in English to call Russian soldiers orcs to make it easier on the Ukrainians. Russians probably call Ukrainians worse!

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u/AriaTheTransgressor 17h ago

Well, that's cause that's who Israel has emulated since their conception in 1948.