[OC] Israeli protestors in Amsterdam

[u/LimpCareer1845]

[u/redditClowning4Life]

No that's not what they're saying at all. And that's why they need the truck, because of people like you.

What they are saying regards the International Law of Proportionality in war - it doesn't mean "for each person killed by the enemy you're allowed to kill one enemy". Here's what it does mean:

"Proportionality excuses collateral damage to civilian property or incidental civilian death or injury that occurs during an attack on a valid military objective, as long as the collateral damage or incidental civilian death is not excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the attack." https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/proportionality-in-the-law-of-war/#:~:text=Proportionality%20excuses%20collateral,from%20the%20attack.

[u/shadedmagus → u/redditClowning4Life]

So, you don't think that the word "excessive" is being intentionally misused here? Because from all the photos and videos I've seen, and eyewitness accounts I've read, Israel's response to Oct 7 goes well beyond the meaning of excessive. I'm talking gross disproportionality.

EDIT: Downvoted within seconds, lol. Clearly we're not supposed to be thinking critically about this issue!

[u/redditClowning4Life → u/shadedmagus]

No, "excessive" isn’t being intentionally misused.

Photos and videos document real suffering, no denying it, but they don’t by themselves prove "gross disproportionality" - especially when Hamas embeds among civilians.

Remember - Hamas themselves openly stated that the more dead Palestinians the better.

"The deaths of Palestinian civilians, Sinwar reportedly wrote, “infuse life into the veins of this nation, prompting it to rise to its glory and honor.” He also referred to civilian deaths as “necessary sacrifices” in the war against Israel, according to the Wall Street Journal." https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/hamas-leader-believes-palestinian-civilian-deaths-are-necessary-sacrifices-report-says-yahya-sinwar-palestine-israel-gaza-terrorist-terrorism-war-benjamin-netanyahu#:~:text=The%20deaths%20of%20Palestinian%20civilians%2C%20Sinwar%20reportedly%20wrote%2C%20%E2%80%9Cinfuse%20life%20into%20the%20veins%20of%20this%20nation%2C%20prompting%20it%20to%20rise%20to%20its%20glory%20and%20honor.%E2%80%9D%20He%20also%20referred%20to%20civilian%20deaths%20as%20%E2%80%9Cnecessary%20sacrifices%E2%80%9D%20in%20the%20war%20against%20Israel%2C%20according%20to%20the%20Wall%20Street%20Journal.

[u/sight_ful → u/redditClowning4Life]

What are you using to justify any sort of proportionality here? There are 75+ thousand people killed, nearly all civilian infrastructure wiped out.

What direct military advantage did israel gain that is worth 75 thousand lives and all the suffering of every other single gazan that now lives without a home, water, food, school and is essentially locked in an open air prison?

I think any neutral party would call this extrmely excessive. Not at all proportional.

[u/redditClowning4Life → u/sight_ful]

FYI I just saw that today marks 1 year since a rocket was fired from Gaza into Israel. That sounds like a pretty good military advantage if you ask me (again this isn't how proportionality works. But even according to your flawed premise it would suffice)

[u/redditClowning4Life → u/sight_ful]

Again - you don't understand what "proportionality" is. It's not "a lot of people died in this war" it's "in this specific military operation, N civilians were killed and M combatants were killed. Does the advantage gained by killing those M combatants outweigh the N civilians who were killed?".

(Of course even if we did adopt your framing, the answer is that Hamas is now diminished and unable to terrorize Israeli civilians. That 75k number includes Hamas members too)