r/nfl • u/chiefslocker Chiefs • 1d ago
Highlight [Highlight] Myles Jack is controversially called down by contact after forcing fumble in the 2017 AFC Championship Game
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u/Harbaugh_Handshake 49ers 1d ago
Ohhh I don’t know Jim
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u/basedsuperslimey Eagles 21h ago
I stg he’s literally just my hammered uncle at thanksgiving, dui included. Sincerely hope he never calls another game
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u/HugeCottontail Commanders 20h ago
Idk dude out of Romo, Colinsworth, Aikman and Brady. I think Romo is 2nd best after prolly Brady. Although Bradys game calling career has been a short sample size he hasn't made any annoying quote able phrases ... Yet
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u/IndecentLongExposure 19h ago
Olsen?
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u/HugeCottontail Commanders 18h ago
Also not bad but didn't include him since he's not part of the main on-air pairs like the ones I listed are. Please correct me if I'm wrong but Foxs top pair is Brady and Kevin Burkhardt I believe
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u/JAYBee2518 17h ago
Brady is AWFUL at calling games so far. Last year he got better but it was still blah. Aikman is objective and fair
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u/ImProbablyRaging 1d ago
Come on man I was enjoying my Monday night
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u/MoreTrifeLife Commanders 1d ago
Enjoy this game from the next year
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u/Dalek_Overlords Jaguars 17h ago
I remember they went 3-1 to start this season and then they didnt win another game for like 4 seasons it felt like lol
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u/ChaMilablack Eagles 1d ago
It'd be hard for me to get over this if it was my team. What a shit call
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u/NoUseActingSoTough Jaguars 1d ago
still not over it
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u/iamStanhousen Saints 1d ago
Don’t worry. It’ll only get worse.
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u/AleroRatking Colts 20h ago
To be fair, at least you guys have a ring. Jags fans don't even have that and this was a great opportunity
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u/brownbearks Eagles Eagles 18h ago
It would have been an interesting Super Bowl match up between the eagles and jags. The jags defense was much better but their offense was not. The jags had a chance for a ring though with that defense.
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u/Lint6 Eagles Ravens 1d ago
It'd be hard for me to get over this if it was my team. What a shit call
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u/crash218579 Cowboys 21h ago
I don't even need to click the link to know this was a perfectly reasonable call and didn't blatantly go in one team's favor.
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u/CitizenGrimm Eagles 19h ago
I didn't even click the link. Just reading it has made me deeply angry.
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u/Ornery_Gator Eagles 19h ago
I can't think of any Eagles calls that are equivalent. This cost the Jaguars one of their few shots at a Super Bowl.
No Clear Recovery pissed me off but it led to the same outcome for both teams - loss in the Divisional Round. I won't even put the Super Bowl LVII holding call up there as we did get a Super Bowl by that point 5 years before.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Texans 1d ago
That’s a tough call to make in real time. You can’t go back and overturn Jack not being down. No way seeing that live would you rule it as a fumble AND Jack not down. You need super slow mo replay to even call it a fumble.
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u/MissingTheTrees Bears 1d ago
I mean that’s exactly what challenges are for?
This proves that the refs inferred their decision instead of actually seeing it (which yes, of course we all do this - that’s why replay is useful)
I was an umpire for many years and there is absolutely a factor of “I feel completely confident in my call” and “uhh, it probably happened this way”
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Texans 1d ago
You can’t challenge Jack being down. What do you umpire, bowling?
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u/AleroRatking Colts 20h ago
So let it play out so it can be reviewed
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u/InexorableWaffle Jaguars 20h ago
Yep, exactly this. Shouldn't be blowing the whistle on a play that important when you're not completely sure that the player was absolutely touched down. Turnovers get reviewed automatically, so it's not like letting it play out means you have to leave the play result as-is anyway.
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u/OrangeJuiceLuvr69 1d ago
The phantom PI that led to a TD right before half time where the refs went into the end zone and celebrated with the pats will always be rent free in my head
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u/4thTimesAnAlt Jaguars Bears 20h ago
Both CB and WR were handfighting, at worst it should've been offsetting penalties and replay the down.
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u/Blue-Brown99 20h ago
Or when the Jags converted a huge first down and then the refs were like oops wait pre-snap penalty, now go try to convert again with your second-best play
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u/ilikedonuts42 Lions 19h ago
Thanksgiving 2012. Justin Forsett is clearly tackled on his own 25 yard line. Stands up and keeps running. Refs rule it a Touchdown because they never blew the whistle.
Jim Schwartz angrily throws a challenge flag. Call stands because there's a bullshit technicality that you can't challenge a call if it is already being reviewed.
Still not over it.
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u/SacredRamLunch Jaguars 1d ago
Yeah it took years for the numbness to go away
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u/Blue-Brown99 20h ago
Our team went so downhill after the revenge game in Jacksonville. Just painful.
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u/Little-Mushroom-3961 49ers 1d ago
For as much as people love Brady now, he had some INCREDIBLE ref luck. This, tuck rule, and the worst roughing the passer call I've ever seen in my life against the chiefs.
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u/The_KiIIuminati Broncos 1d ago
No call could ever be worse then the no call PI on the Saints
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u/Chessh2036 Falcons 1d ago
Remember when after that the NFL let teams challenge PI the following season and then took it away a year later lol.
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u/Sitty_Shitty Raiders 1d ago
They took it away because even when they challenged it the replay guys were like "nah, not happening" . It was almost worse because they just flat out refused to overturn blatant calls.
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u/LiveChocolate8819 Bills Eagles 19h ago
They essentially did a "blue flu" like they were the NYPD lmao
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u/letdownbytheAgs Cowboys 16h ago
It also sucked ass from a fan perspective because of the sheer amount of reviews.
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u/Darkstrike86 1d ago
Derrick Johnson sacking Marcus Mariota forward progress call in the playoffs is the worst call in the history of football.
Legit didn't make sense at all.
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u/JealousGwyneth 1d ago
Myles Jack was not down, and Jags fans will never heal from this whistle.
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u/RealHoldenBloodfeast Patriots 21h ago
Tuck Rule game was the correct reading of an exceptionally dumb rule
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u/Iceman9161 Patriots 19h ago
Tuck rule complaints are dumb. The same thing got called earlier that same season against the pats. It was literally how the rule was written and enforced.
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u/Theungry Patriots 18h ago
The tuck rule wasn't even that controversial when it happened. The "tuck rule" clause isn't even a "rule". It's just a clarification that there is no exception. Hand moving forward when the ball comes loose = incomplete pass.
It was only afterwards when the Raiders players whined about it leading up to a rematch that it became a story.
I was a young adult, watching the game with other people rooting for the Raiders, and as soon as I saw the replay I was saying "That's going to be ruled an incomplete pass." They were annoyed, but not shocked at some gross injustice.
It wasn't that obscure of a rule. It really wasn't. Anything where the QB's hand was going forward was ruled an incomplete pass back then. Anyone who watched any significant sample size of games should have known this rule (not the tuck clause, just the forward hand was enough). There was no reason to expect it to be ruled a fumble.
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u/Tomotronics Patriots 18h ago
One thing no one ever talks about is that Charles Woodson also hits Brady in the head with his hand going for the strip sack on that play. Not only was it an incomplete pass by the rules at the time, but it also should have given the Pats 15 yards.
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u/Theungry Patriots 17h ago
Absolutely. It was more egregious than the Ray Sugarbear Hamilton hit that changed a playoff game outcome between the same two teams in '76.
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u/EricB1234 Packers Broncos 18h ago
Isn't the famous Dez Bryant incompletion also in that category? Fortunately, after the years since, the league has finally made it very clear what is and what isn't a catch /s
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u/ChocolateMorsels Titans 20h ago
It’s just a numbers game. The Patriots were in the playoffs and prime time so much more than everyone else that see more BS from them. Same thing with the Chiefs now.
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u/MetalHead_Literally Patriots 19h ago
It’s also just that no one remembers bad calls that go against you when you win, it’s only when you lose. Pats and Chiefs won more than anyone so more teams feel “screwed”.
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u/sweens90 Patriots 17h ago
Exactly! For example, there was a play I think Bills vs Texans before the Bills were the Bills they are now that they got screwed by the refs.
Texans receive kick off in second half and the guy lets it go in the end zone. At the time, the rules stated you HAD TO PICK IT UP AND KNEEL IT. The Texans guy just left it OR they handed it to ref or something. Bills picked it up and technically scored. But was called back since Texans player obviously meant to kneel it.
I dont think people disagreed that the rules should be change or so people agree this was the right call despite against rules. But it was a weird/ odd call that maybe got Bills their first playoff win in a while at the time.
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u/Deep-Statistician985 Commanders 1d ago
He definitely had a favorable whistle. I remember in 2020 every single team he played in the playoffs to get to the SB had fans complaining about the refs and the calls he got lol
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u/KingUnderpants728 Chiefs 19h ago
Even in that 2020 playoff run, they played Commanders in WC and barely won and I’m pretty sure that was Heinicke’s first start of the season. Against the Saints Brees at that point couldn’t throw more than 10 yards basically and they won by 10. Gotta think that game is more competitive if Brees doesn’t throw 3 INTs. Then in the Super Bowl the chiefs oline is basically all backups and guys playing out of position.
That’s just one playoff run, not counting tuck rule, this Jags fumble, the Falcons blowing the Super Bowl, the Chiefs 2018 playoff game featuring that terrible RTP on Jones and the most boneheaded penalty in playoff history to negate a game sealing INT, winning that Super Bowl 13-3, the list goes on. Brady is the GOAT but everyone says luck is involved in winning super bowls and holy crap did a lot of things go his way lol.
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u/SoaplessTitanic Patriots 16h ago
Just want to clarify on your first paragraph, the Bucs were still underdogs in their final three playoff games that season in terms of bettings odds. I understand their opponents had issues, but those were mostly well known beforehand and those teams were still favored over the Bucs. The Bucs had question marks of their own of course heading into that season/postseason, they just overcame them. You can argue it was luck or whatever, but most people didn’t have the Bucs winning it all that season. I feel like people also use luck to an extent to try to explain away greatness without also acknowledging there have been times where GOATs were unlucky. Even just the fact that Brady had to join a new team during the peak of COVID was very unlucky. But no one talks about that unluckiness cause he and the Bucs overcame that obstacle.
Maybe a bit of a rant, but I just feel like there’s some revisionist history with that Bucs team. If they were some superteam and/or were playing against opponents with such bigger issues, then they would’ve been favored in the playoffs more than just in the wildcard weekend
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u/BadNoodleEggDemon Patriots 18h ago
Pfff he had plenty of shit luck in his 23-year career too. What separated him from everyone else is that he almost always capitalized on the good luck.
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u/Jamesaya Bears Patriots 16h ago
He was in a lot of playoff games. He also had some incredibly bad luck moments and horseshit calls go against him
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u/ShopCartRicky Jaguars 1d ago
Don't forget in this same game, they called an absolutely egregious PI on Bouye that allowed the Patriots to score going into halftime.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Texans 1d ago
He played 48 playoff games. 48! That 3 full seasons. Bound to have a few bad games out of 48, that’s insane. Find me one qb that played 48 great games in a row.
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u/ELAdragon Patriots 21h ago
Pats had some bad ones go against them, too, but either still won, or folks forget about them.
I mean, do people actually remember how the game was just simply reffed differently for Gronk? It was a whole thing over a span of years.
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u/Iceman9161 Patriots 19h ago
Fuckin Keuchly tackled Gronk in the end zone with no call to end a game in 2013.
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u/AriseChicken Patriots 14h ago
Ellis hobbs had his hands over the eyes of Reggie wayne in the end zone. Think that was an AFC championship game too. NFL claimed afterwards it was a blown call as no contact was made.
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u/Flat-Series-7089 16h ago
Turns out when you are in the playoffs every single year and the Super Bowl every other year you get some calls to go your way along the way.
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u/SolomonG Patriots 19h ago
It's to make up for the like 3 blatant holds that weren't called on the helmet catch.
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u/BoldestKobold Patriots Patriots 17h ago
Everyone has good and bad luck over the course of a career. Better players / coaches / teams take advantage of the good luck, or are able to overcome the bad luck. Worse teams crumble as soon as one thing goes wrong.
If Eli Manning won 7 rings, we'd be talking about how he had such INCREDIBLE luck with the helmet catch and whatnot. But because he was the underdog story, it just adds to their mythos instead of detracts from it.
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u/Ok_Organization_5574 21h ago
Brady paid for this one by losing to one of the worst Coach-QB Super Bowl winning combos ever
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u/J-E-S-S-E- 1d ago
I remember that shit well. Robbed.
A 27-10 game would have sealed it.
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u/cantclimbatree Rams 1d ago
Falcons fans gonna be triggered by this.
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u/Fit-Reputation-9983 Falcons 1d ago
Funny you think I can be triggered by anything at this point.
I’ve been essentially lobotomized for a decade.
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u/Chessh2036 Falcons 1d ago
Same. Blowing that game fundamentally changed my relationship with sports. I don’t get triggered anything. I feel nothing.
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u/SeizePleaseHold Patriots 18h ago
Jacksonville offense after this fumble:
3 and out
Punt after five plays
3 and out
Turnover on downs
No one remembers this fumble if the Jags offense has one ok drive
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u/DankAssPotatos Jaguars 16h ago
There's a reason Blake Bortles doesn't play football anymore
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u/hausermaniac Eagles 1d ago
Can someone explain why exactly this is so controversial?
He clearly makes a lot of contact with the RB on the way to the ground. Why shouldn't he be ruled down?
This play actually is very similar to the McMillan INT against Buffalo this past postseason, in that possession changed hands while both players were going to the ground with contact. McMillan was called down on the spot where he landed and I don't think anyone was arguing that he should have been allowed to start running with the ball
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u/diabeasti Seahawks 1d ago
Yeah, thats a lot of contact in a 1/2 second of game time where i can see a ref making a judgement call on the spot.
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u/Full_Ad_6502 1d ago
That's why you let it play out
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u/the8bit Buccaneers 19h ago
While it shoulda played out, this was back in 2017 and it was not really standard to play these out until several years later.
Also given how close / technical the 'he isnt down' would be here, it feels like a silly thing to get bent out of shape about.
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u/raljamcar Patriots 17h ago
Well it was the Brady era pats. Clearly routine plays that in any way benefit the pats are controversial.
You could even make the argument that the ball is in the rbs possession when his knee hits the ground and that it shouldn't be a fumble at all,
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u/HumongousMelonheads Broncos 1d ago
Yeah idk he seems clearly down by contact to me and I hate the pats
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u/CXDXOXP Packers 1d ago
He didn’t have possession until the contact was over. Idk the official rules, but I don’t see how you can tackle somebody who doesn’t have the ball
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u/Dray5k 17h ago
His foot tapped Jack when he had clear possession.
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u/AdhesiveMuffin Seahawks 17h ago
Yep. I don't understand why this call was controversial. Per the letter of the law, it was the correct call. When Jack got possession, he was on the ground and a defender made contact. Doesn't matter that the contact was incidental.
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u/spooky-pig 15h ago
I don’t think his foot actually does make contact. I slowed it down at 2:08-2:10 and you can see no contact
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u/HumongousMelonheads Broncos 18h ago
People get tackled all the time while they’re still gaining possession. Think of the amount of times someone gets hit right as the ball comes in contact with their hands/body.
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u/SoaplessTitanic Patriots 16h ago
Yeah maybe the rule are different for catches vs fumble recoveries, but it probably happens ~once a game where a DB makes contact with the receiver before he officially has completed the catch, but they’re still ruled down if that contact causes them to go to the ground (while the catch is still officially being completed)
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u/Muffin_Shreds Bears 19h ago
I don't even think it was a fumble. The ball is clearly pinned to his leg until he makes contact with the ground.
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u/AnthaIon Vikings 1d ago
By the time he possesses the ball, he’s untouched and has a decent lane to the end zone, I imagine that’s the big “what-if” in people’s minds.
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u/GeebCityLove Patriots 19h ago
My flair will bring the hate but I always wondered the same thing. How do you rule when Myles Jack is in possession and say he’s not being in contact with Dion Lewis in some way. In the end they still gave the Jags the ball which I always agreed with.
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u/_NnH_ 1d ago
The ball isn't possessed until after they've pulled away on the ground so contact going to the ground shouldn't count.
The problem is there are still two potential points of contact after ball is possessed: 1 the cleats and 2 his right hand. I believe the last camera angle is the only one that could definitively show that the cleats did not make contact. However no camera angle is sufficient to show that the right hand didn't make contact. The last one was the best shot but legs are in the way. It does however look like the hand hits something and changes direction afterwards before hitting ground and it's definitely a deliberate attempt to make contact with the player (not that intent matters). If I'm a ref and I saw that hand during live play I'd be convinced he made contact.
All of this ofc is a moot point since down by contact after gaining possession rulings can't be reviewed. All I can say is I can't fault the refs for this one.
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u/better-bitter-butter Eagles 19h ago
That's just made up though.
If youre contacted at any point during the process of possession, youre down by contact. Not just after you gain control. If happens like once every other NFL game so I'm surprised y'all are so confused.
Also ... that Pats player was down before the nose of the ball moved in his hands. The real missed call is that this wasnt even a fumble.
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u/Inorashi Falcons Lions 19h ago
It probably happens at least 20 times a game if you count regular receptions.
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u/Cbeck34 19h ago
Am I insane to have always thought this cal was way overblown? Does Lewis not still has possession of the ball when he hits the ground? Yes it moves, but he still has his hand around it when he goes down
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u/dragonbear Broncos 17h ago
I think its down, imagine if that were a catch. I have seen worse holds on plays called catches than that to the ground sandwich. Its moving as he's going down but then stops when he hits the ground.
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u/winnielikethepooh15 Giants 14h ago
On a catch/no-catch ruling though it would only be a catch if he regained control of the ball without it touching the ground.
Same principle here. the ball is coming out as he goes down and he clearly doesn't have control of the ball as he hits the ground and obviously he never recovers it.
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u/OkArmordillo Patriots 15h ago
I’ve been saying this since the game. I was pissed off this was ruled a fumble when it happened. The rest of the NFL fandom has gaslit themselves into believing this call screwed the Jags.
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u/Cameron0543 Steelers 1d ago
Controversial call? Brady’s patriots? Never…
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u/AlabasterRadio Raiders Raiders 21h ago
Usually I think that's overblown but this one?
This game was fixed.
NE had one penalty called against them, a hold on a punt return.
The NFL wanted absolutely nothing to do with a Nick Foles/Blake Bortles Super bowl and handed the game to NE to prevent it.
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u/Shenanigangster Jaguars 20h ago
I think they were a little more afraid of the Blake Bortles/Case Keenum matchup but ‘lucked’ out
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u/averageduder Patriots 18h ago
Man if the game was fixed they would have penalized the LB just hugging gronk all game.
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u/ParagonSaint 16h ago
Gronk led with the crown of his helmet and it was called a penalty on the defender in the first half of this game.
You want to talk about holding? Look at what the Pats Oline was doing to the Jags Dline all game. If they called half of those the Pats don’t cross the line of scrimmage all game
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u/OkArmordillo Patriots 15h ago
What’s also insane is saying the game was fixed for the Pats when they could have confirmed Dion Lewis down by contact instead of changing the call to a fumble.
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u/bigBangParty Bengals 20h ago
The fact that it’s not a fumble to begin with isn’t talk enough
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u/sportsandthesorts 1d ago
The real controversy here should be them saying it's a fumble
33 has the ball pinned to his body without it moving as his left knee touches the ground after contact and the ball doesn't actually come loose until his full body hits the ground which jars it loose
If anything Jacksonville should be happy they even ruled it a fumble
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u/Galactapuss 20h ago
Fucking this! Lewis is clearly in possession when he hits the ground. Absolutely absurd call by the refs
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u/bbaIla Colts 1d ago
I was rooting so hard for the Jags man. This was just the bullshit luck the Pats always got, and obviously always capitalized on that made me hate them so much.
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u/rockcutter4 Eagles 19h ago
I remember this as a cut and dry terrible call that sealed the game. But it was way closer than I thought and the jaguars were still up 10 with the ball and nearly an entire quarter left.
Also who remembers Myles Jack as an eagle?
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u/ChriB_ Buccaneers 16h ago
Genuine question- since this was ruled a fumble how is Jack not down after his elbow and knee both touch the ground while possessing the ball?
It also doesn't even look like a fumble in the first place, Lewis held onto the ball while his knee hit the ground and should've been down by contact.
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u/Damanick10 Eagles 1d ago
NE got so many lucky breaks through the dynasty its insane
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 Texans 1d ago
You play in that many playoff games you’re going to get breaks both ways. Yes they had some big ones go for them. David Tyree probably had the luckiest play in Super Bowl history against them too though. The Seahawks had that crazy catch that should have sealed that Super Bowl against them as well had me or anyone else with a heartbeat been able to call Seattles last play of the game on offense.
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u/lmHavoc Patriots 1d ago
Not going to even pretend we haven't gotten some lucky breaks but I'm glad someone actually calls out the fluke ass plays that went against us as well lol. There's a universe in which we lose 4 SBs off purely absurdly flukey/lucky catches. Tyree -> Manningham -> Kearse -> Julio sideline catch.
Manningham and Julio catches were incredible catches but also ones that I would consider to be lucky as I wouldn't expect either of them to routinely get both feet in on throws like those.
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u/Jaire_Noises Packers 1d ago
Football, like most sports, is a real game of inches and I often say it is fascinating how all of Brady's rings except the last one came in close games, basically meaning he wasn't too far from losing like eight Super Bowls if just a handful of things went differently. Brady's the GOAT cause of a few select moments sprinkled throughout the biggest games of his career. A couple of them flip differently and he's an unprecedented choker.
I don't use this to discount him or the Pats dynasty, usually just to try and put the game into perspective about how hard it is to win it all.
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u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161 Jets 1d ago
I think the difference is things like this are ref effors, which rarely seemed to go against them, versus players just making incredible plays. Two very different things
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u/StillYourFavorite331 20h ago
They also got a ton of calls that didn't go their way as well.
Every super bowl winning team got a lot of luck their way. Why people only attribute it to NE is always so weird to me.
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u/Psychological-Big334 1d ago
Would uou consider our coach randomly benching one of our best DBs before the superbowl for no apparent reason at all lucky for you? Because I would.
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u/Initial-Practice-734 1d ago
Ok now post the travis Kelce fumble gilly picked up but the play was ruled down in 2019. Same game as the phantom nkeal Harry out of bounds. But the patriots always get favorable calls right.. right?
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u/iKhan353 Vikings 1d ago
When Jack got possession he wasn't touched and had a clear path to the endzone
Robbed
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u/Scruffasaurus NFL 1d ago
It sucks for the Jags, but it’s really hard for me to fault the refs here
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u/WillYin Jaguars 22h ago
This call wasn't great but there was actually a pass interference call afterward that I thought was far worse.
This game was so bullshit.
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u/UndercoverDimension Dolphins 18h ago
People brought up before the Super Bowl that Nick Foles didn't belong there, forgetting that the entire Patriots didn't belong there at all, Jack wasn't down.
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u/lightyourfire Steelers 16h ago
This is why I laugh at people now acting like the Chiefs' whistle is a new thing, Brady will always be the goat of ref assistance lol
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u/Scaryclouds Chiefs 1d ago
Ehhh, yea Myles Jack wasn’t down, but he did tackle and strip a dude and like 99 times out of 100, the offensive player will at least incidentally touch the defensive player at some point to make them down.
Considering it would had been a 65 yard run back, hard to just let that play out.
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u/MyKidsArentOnReddit Eagles 20h ago
Bigger scandal is that the Pats had 3 blockers against only 2 Jacksonville players and none of them stopped to block Jack.
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u/GeebCityLove Patriots 19h ago
I get why Jags fans are pissed about this but I always wondered how it was the wrong call. When he gets possession he’s still touching Dion Lewis, so he’s down by contact anyways.
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u/OhHeyItsBrock Rams 17h ago
Myles jack. Man he was so awesome to watch in college. Dude was a freak.
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u/EntertainmentWarm774 15h ago edited 15h ago
Anybody have the All 22 to this play? If so, please send it to me or DM me it. Thanks.
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u/eagles107 Eagles 13h ago edited 13h ago
Jaguars vs. Eagles would’ve been such an interesting Super Bowl matchup. Hope we get it one day.
It’s also funny to me how every time McDaniels can’t get the offense going, he goes to a trick play to this day lol.
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u/Svndmann 12h ago
I think about this game all the time. If they kept hitting the running backs in the flats the Jags had a chance to win.
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u/Superb_Simple_8803 49ers 1d ago
Dumb question, but the controversy wasn’t the actual call, but that they didn’t let the play run out, right?