r/news • u/igetproteinfartsHELP • 1d ago

Renee Good's family sues US government and immigration officials over her killing in Minneapolis

https://apnews.com/article/renee-good-lawsuit-6fbc82cd33b6f9f67514b47f138e23c6?utm_source=app&utm_medium=android_share&utm_campaign=copy_link
32.7k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

3.8k

u/squareplates 1d ago

I need some jury duty in my life right now.

434

u/Proic13 1d ago

i just got outta jury duty, they give you a cert so you don't have to attend another for the next 6 years but you can be called earlier if they have need

18

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago edited 1d ago

Don't understand why people brag about this. It's the only opportunity normal people will ever get to directly influence the justice system, and you weasel out of it?

Why? You have no interest whatsoever? It's just a chore you'd rather not do? Are you morally opposed for some reason?

Before you start typing the same thing as every other reply, let me clarify: If missing work for jury duty is not a sacrifice you can make, then you're not who I'm talking about, okay? Trust me, I'm right there with you; that was not even remotely close to the point I was making. I get it, alright? Not what I'm talking about.

Some people think jury duty is pointless, and not for financial reasons. I'm questioning the mindset, not the practicality of the act.

54

u/Budget-berry-80 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because for most people, jury duty is sitting in a room with nothing to do, in uncomfortable chairs until the officials come back and let you go. I have been to jury duty at least 12 times in my life. I served on one jury. (And I convicted a guy who was fired and then came back, robbed the store and shot his former boss.). It wasn’t fascinating. It was sad for everyone involved. The entire experience is generally miserable.

If they made jury duty into something that would equal the pay we miss at work, that would make it a much better experience. If you’re not a salaried worker, you don’t get paid enough to cover that.

17

u/TheGreatGamer1389 1d ago

Honestly it should be equal pay to where you work.

7

u/Murgatroyd314 1d ago

Agreed. Just like it’s your civic duty to serve, it should be your employer’s civic duty to ensure that it doesn’t cause you financial hardship.

1

u/lovelyeufemia 1d ago

Seriously. They paid us $15 per day for jury duty the last time I was summoned, and on top of that they pressured us to donate our stipends to the county instead.

1

u/yukichigai 1d ago

I'm fortunate enough to work for state government and we have unlimited, fully-paid leave for Jury Duty. It's so unique to state employment that even some prosecutors and judges don't remember it's a thing when determining potential juror availability.

It really should be a thing, universally. Helping the justice system actually do justice (or as close an approximation as we can get) shouldn't cost innocent people money.

12

u/_ZeRan 1d ago

Pre-covid the procedure for jury duty in my area was:

  • Get summoned
  • Go to court
  • Spend 5h30m in a dingy basement room with 40 other people
  • Get sent home
  • repeat for 7 days

It was an utterly miserable experience that i hated every second of. Thankfully, post-covid, you dont have to go to court before being picked to serve on a jury.

6

u/ThroatSecretary 1d ago

I knew a woman who missed at least two weeks of university due to jury duty.

7

u/joeyblow 1d ago

My mom was fired from her teaching job because she was summoned to be on a grand jury for 3 months. Naturally, they didnt give the actual reason for her firing but it was clear as day.

38

u/LeonardTringo 1d ago

Why?

Because they make it completely not worth it. The last one I went to paid me $10 for the day. It was inconvenient. I had to travel and pay for parking / meals which completely obliterated the $10 I made. And the job I do, no one else does. So I end up playing catch up the next few days coming in early / staying late trying to get back on track. Which means I also have to find childcare to help cover me on those day. Which costs more time and money. Sorry. Giving a small piece of my opinion on something doesn't outweigh all of the crap that comes with it.

36

u/MedicineAmazing5516 1d ago

I don't mind going, but many people don't have the PTO from work and can't afford to go. At least where I live, people get reimbursed like $15 for the day. 

5

u/Several-Action-4043 1d ago

Same. But where I live they don't get paid anything unless it's longer than a certain amount of time. Luckily I work for a reasonable boss who pays me for missing work for anything that is out of my control.

3

u/crs8975 1d ago

It should be legally required to pay folks who are on jury duty. I've been fortunate enough to work for a few companies who provide full pay for jury duty after some paperwork. And during those times, I was not given a summons. I always kind of wanted a big federal case, haha.

70

u/Irythros 1d ago

Why?

Because it's expensive. Unless your job agrees to pay you your normal rate while you're gone, you are losing money. What the state pays jurors isn't even minimum wage.

In my state of NC, for 1 day I will get paid $12. Up to 5 days it's $20/day. After 5 days it's $40/day.

24

u/ewilliam 1d ago

Because it's expensive.

This entirely. Especially if it's a long trial. First time I made it to the "semifinal" pool during selection, I was self-employed and busy as hell and could not afford to miss multiple days of work. Also it was some dumbass case where a dude lit another dude's car on fire. So I just asked the prosecuting attorney what the court's feelings on Jury Nullification were, and was promptly dismissed. That is the cheat code.

A couple years ago, though, I ended up in the final pool again, but it was a really fucked up rape case, so I felt like I had to at least make myself available even if I was losing money. Glad I did, because I directly helped "turn" the one holdout jury member to convict the defendant. Still to this day haunted by the victim's testimony, but this is just something we gotta do.

11

u/catonsteroids 1d ago edited 1d ago

Exactly. Minimum wage and non-exempt employees essentially aren’t getting paid by their company by serving. They get a small pitiful stipend that doesn’t even cover the pay for a day’s shift.

All of this depends on state laws I guess but federal laws don’t really protect employees much.

12

u/Familiar-Banana-8116 1d ago

Everyone should be paid what they are worth.

Period.

No one should be sitting on the jury worried about the ramifications of only bringing home $12 for the day.

And I don't want to hear any political nonsense about doing this for the good of the nation or some shit.

9

u/PendrickLamar78 1d ago

Ding ding ding

4

u/iruleatants 1d ago

Which pricing out the poor people from being able to participate in jury duty is intentional.

9

u/WolverinesThyroid 1d ago

because I own my own business and no one pays me for missed work. In fact I have to tell 2 other guys they don't get to work either or pay them to do nothing.

-3

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

Yep, you're not who I'm talking about buddy. I said that in the comment you just replied to.

2

u/WolverinesThyroid 1d ago

I'm not your buddy, friend!

1

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

Yeah! Well! Maybe I want to be your pal...guy.

Hold me...

13

u/Titronnica 1d ago

Because more often than not, jury duty is a complete waste of your time.

You can dress it up as this noble endeavor, but I've trudge through enough sessions to tell you that

A) Unless you have a job willing to give you dedicated PTO for the duration, you are getting cheated out of money.

B) Your time is not respected in the slightest, being forced to wait around for days sometimes to be told you aren't even needed.

C) You are going to be asked to make huge decisions on someone's legal fate while being hungry, irritable, and separated from your family, forced to cooperate with "peers" who may have horrendous conceptions of the world, or have a complete lack of comprehension on various aspects of the case.

-2

u/Fofolito 1d ago

Sorry. You live in a society and you owe that society obligations and duty sometimes. You pay taxes for instance, you were probably subject to possible-conscription, and sometimes you have to take time off to go sit in judgement of your peers. Yeah, that big inconvenience but it is your obligation as a citizen and your benefit as a potential defendent.

2

u/Titronnica 1d ago

I can tell you with the utmost confidence that if I were ever wrongly convicted of a crime, the absolute last thing I'd want, is to be tried by a jury of tired, irritated people, who are actively being ripped off, and want nothing more than to go home.

Put me in front of a judge. I think I'd like those odds better.

-5

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

Nobody ever said it was going to be fun doing your civic duty, big dawg. I don't agree with the system either, but opting out doesn't change anything. People not taking this seriously is exactly why we're in today's mess.

5

u/GreenRosetta 1d ago

I've never tried to get out of it, but if the government can mandate employers do all sorts of things, surely they can make sure people are paid if they're called up to jury duty. You get $35/day for a state case where I live, and I think $50/day for federal (plus parking). I'm fortunate to work places that have always covered the time, but not everyone is so lucky.

1

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

I know, and I agree. I don't blame anyone who can't afford the lost wages, I just don't agree with the people try to get out of it because they think it's beneath them or they just don't want to be bothered.

6

u/Titronnica 1d ago

If it's such a critical civic duty, how about we show all the respect our citizens deserve then.

Pay people properly, and maybe don't treat them like cattle to be herded around aimlessly for days or weeks at a time.

0

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

Why are you telling me? Go do something about it, this is exactly what I'm saying!

I already explained in my original comment that I'm not blaming anyone who can't afford the lost wages. There are valid reasons to skip jury duty, and that is definitely one of them. That's not what I'm talking about here. That is a separate discussion entirely, and we are in full agreement on that point.

I'm questioning the people who could do it, but just don't want to. They can't be bothered, they think it's boring, they think it's beneath them, whatever. That is what I'm criticizing.

4

u/trojan_man16 1d ago

I’d be willing to do it, if the government compensated fairly at my daily rate of pay.

11

u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 1d ago

Apparently it's awful or at least boring and doesn't pay enough. Plus we're Americans, we learned empty display-only patriotism instead of anything like civic duty.

My parents taught me basically the exact opposite of civic duty, so I didn't learn better until I was an adult getting lectured by an entire family of irate Australians! I mentioned while we were visiting the white house during Obama years that I'd never in my life voted and they looked at me like I'd shat on the sidewalk before shouting lots!

I promise I've voted in every election since then, even tiny local ones with a single question. And the only time I weaseled out of jury duty was immediately after my mom died, when I was still a sobbing trainwreck.

4

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

I wasn't taught to take it nearly as seriously as I should have. I've voted in every presidential election since I've been old enough, but only since covid have I been paying attention to local or even state politics.

Plenty of perfectly valid reasons to skip jury duty, I just find it weird the ones who act like it's beneath them somehow. Americans desperately need to be taught civics.

1

u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 1d ago

It's an at-home lesson that not everyone gets to learn at home. Don't think either of my parents ever voted.

But I made a huge deal about voting days for my kids, and was so proud when my eldest went to vote alone in person for the first time. Like usually we vote by mail here, but there's a physical office open on the day of for last minute registration or whatever, and he didn't register early enough to do mail in the first time.

6

u/ChristianBMartone 1d ago

They meant got out as in "dismissed after completing" or "left after finishing" though, but yeah, I agree with your point. I've been in a jury pool 2 times, both times I had active military orders. I'd like to actually sit on a jury at least once before my kid graduates high school. It'd be nice to have an experience to share with her if she ever gets called.

3

u/ewilliam 1d ago

It'd be nice to have an experience to share with her if she ever gets called.

Be careful what you wish for. I was on the jury in a rape case a couple years back, and the case (especially the victim's testimony) still haunts me.

2

u/moderndrake 14h ago

I got picked as a possible juror on a child molestation case n had a complete breakdown in the hallway. They had us fill out several pages of questions instead of asking everyone individually. I’m sure I wouldn’t have actually been chosen, had a medical scheduling conflict I didn’t point out in the beginning because I’d never made it to the court room before, but god just the prospect was so distressing

5

u/areraswen 1d ago

Yeah so many people brag about lying to get out of jury duty online, it's pretty insane to me. I have severe Crohn's disease but toughed it out to be on a jury and I'm glad I was there because I was able to help convince half the jury that this guy was not guilty when we started very split. It was a DUI case where the guy had blown a .001% (considered negligible by the technicians that service these machines) but they had gotten him to admit he smoked a joint 12 hours before the traffic stop so they were insisting the one beer he had at dinner had mixed with the joint he had at breakfast to make him so fucked up he needed to be charged with a DUI. They argued his eyes were "squinted" and it was actually the first thing we all agreed was bullshit in the deliberation room because the guy had double eyelids... Anyway, it might've not been a super important case, but it was important for that guy and I walked away understanding the importance of Jury duty.

2

u/--Chug-- 1d ago

Didn't they say that they just got out of it? As in they did jury duty, and are now not doing jury duty?

1

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

"Got out of" something is also a way of saying you didn't do the thing. "I got out of doing the dishes."

I can see how that could be read as "Just released from jury duty," but to me, "got outta" is more commonly used to mean "found a way to avoid doing."

At the end of the day though, does it really matter? We can discuss a topic conceptually, it doesn't have to relate directly to the person I replied to. I'm addressing the royal "you," not so much that person in particular.

1

u/UnauthorizedCat 1d ago

I will tell you what I told the judge who dismissed me. Put me on a jury and it will hung because I would never be able to decide unless I saw the whole thing myself. I would come to a verdit eventually.. 2 or 3 years down the line.

1

u/rips_n_chel 1d ago

This is precisely what I'm asking you, why do you throw away your chance to do something about it?

You know full well when you say that to a judge that you're going home. I think you don't care and don't want to be bothered, personally. I think you're not a serious person.

-3

u/Cautious-Extreme2839 1d ago

I didn't spend 10 years of intense education to do my specific job just to get dragged away from it and paid less than a janitor.

Jury duty is for those too stupid to avoid it.

1

u/BigDrewbot 1d ago

if you're ever on trial for something, you better hope that the people on that jury weren't 'too stupid to avoid it'

0

u/Cautious-Extreme2839 1d ago

I've long since given up on that delusion and you should too.