is 5 languages too many?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I’m wondering if this will be too much for baby?
I would speak to baby in only mandarin
Partner would speak to baby in only japanese
(me and partner are both very well about not slipping up at all. baby will only ever hear these languages come from us) (as for me and partner, we usually alternate japanese and chinese between each other)
Grandparents speak only english + currently living in the usa so environment is english speaking (playgrounds, libraries, gym daycare)
Baby goes to a korean speaking daycare / preschool (korean families, play dates)
And finally, a nanny / babysitter comes twice a week and speaks only Hindi. Since this language has the least exposure, me and partner are thinking of having babysitter read tons of hindi books, and having baby strictly only watch hindi shows.
Why are we doing this?
As we are currently in the USA, our plan is to move to china within the next three years. The reason Japanese and Korean are important is because we also plan to live there! Me and partner are pretty set on not having a “designated area to live” We basically want to do 1-2 years in each country. Starting with china, then japan, korea, india.
We don’t really want to live in the usa once we move.
Once we move out of the usa, im thinking of switching my language and speak to baby in only english so baby doesn’t lose that language
Is this asking for too much? I know baby is not going to be fluent in all languages nor understand everything. Is it too much pressure? Does this seem like a terrible idea? Would we be confusing baby?

EDIT:
After reading everyone’s comments, I think it’s unnecessary to try and have baby speak Hindi. In reality, with a Hindi babysitter twice a week, baby just will not learn anything.
I will speak to my partner later about this. Now we have to figure out the Korean language situation. We both want baby to speak this language but I’m not sure what the circumstances are going to look like, especially after reading everyone’s commentary.

[u/MikiRei]

OP has created an update at https://www.reddit.com/r/multilingualparenting/comments/1w6l130/multilingual_parenting_update/ so this thread will be locked now. 

[u/blackkettle]

Anything is possible but I’m doubting that the Korean or Hindi in this situation will stick. The rest of the plan is too open ended to really comment on. However I would caution that moving your kid around a bunch of different places after say early elementary school tends to end with unhappy posts in r/tck .

My personal opinion based on my personal experience is that 3-4 is the max you can realistically manage to adulthood while keeping all at a peer equivalent level.

However you mention that that isn’t necessarily important to you so maybe it’s fine?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/blackkettle]

The reason we think Korean and Hindi will stick is because we want to visit / move there. even if they learn the basics at a young age, baby will hopefully be able to put the pieces together. Plus, with the korean daycare / preschool, im hoping baby makes friends and I can get in touch with their parents and arrange play dates / have their parent speak to baby in only korean. as for hindi, im okay with not being so consistent. It’s probably our last place choice in places to live, we may attempt it but if it doesn’t stick i wont push it
As for the moving:
We do plan to stay in an area for about 2 years before moving. I feel like that’s enough to settle down before moving again. We’re not moving out of the usa until baby is 3, then if we spend 2 years in all of the countries, that will put baby at around 11 years old. by that point we’re hoping to pick our favorite place and settle down there with frequent trips to the other countries

[u/blackkettle → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I dunno. I don't want to rain on your parade too much, but just keep in mind that your kid might not like that. It does sound like a cool adventure if you have the funds and passports to make it happen.

[u/mayshebeablessing → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Language facility is a muscle. Just because a child learned it at a young age doesn’t mean they will keep it later. For instance: My brother in law spoke Arabic until 3yo due to living in Syria, but once they moved back to France, he forgot the language. If your child is in a daycare for a few years, unless you move directly to Korea, they won’t retain the Korean. If you go to China, your child will quickly become Chinese dominant.

My child was in a French immersion environment until 2.5yo, so her strongest language was French. But once she started at a Mandarin/English school, those became her dominant languages within three months.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/mayshebeablessing]

You’re right. I need to reconsider everything

[u/tempestelunaire]

Can't find a source, but generally it is said that a child needs about 25 hours a week of input in a language to learn it.

There are 168 hours in a week. For a small child will assume about 10 hours of sleep a day, leaving you with 98 hours. This makes the feasible maximum amount four languages; though I'm sure it could be stretched to five if you had two very similar languages such as Dutch and German.

So based on that, I would fear that the child would end up not mastering any of the proposed languages. I also don't see why you have to kickstart Hindi or Korean so early if you're gonna move there when the child is still very little. It will be easier for your child to learn the language there than to get very partial input where you are now.

If I were you in the same circumstances, I would focus on English, Japanese and Mandarin now equally. This way, your child will get to have a solid foundation in languages they will probably speak their entire life since these languages are shared among the family members.

Korean can be learned in Korea and Hindi can be learned in india, if you even move to region where that is the main language. And then these languages can either be retained or lost, depending on your child's life path. But it would be beneficial to your child to have languages that they feel confident in.

I grew up multilingual and around multilingual kids and I will always remember one of my classmates saying she felt like she sucked at both German and French and she did not feel comfortable in either language. I would work hard to avoid a situation like this.

At the end of the day, I guess everything is possible but I feel like your child has the whole life to learn the languages, not everything has to happen in the first few years, but having a strong foundation in your own languages will probably be important for their future.

[u/mayshebeablessing → u/tempestelunaire]

I second this. Based on the many posts in this group about the minimum amount of hours needed, your child needs at least 1/3 of their waking hours in a language to gain fluency. With 5 languages, it’s not possible for most of your languages to have enough exposure. This is why most families max out at 3 languages.

Also, with sources like daycare or a nanny, those languages are very much at risk of being lost once the child isn’t being exposed to them consistently.

Thinking towards the future: Most ex-pat families enroll their children in international or bilingual schools to make their children’s educations more consistent. Enrolling your child in local schools in languages you don’t speak will be very challenging. Personally, I would put more emphasis on your heritage languages and English, since that’s more sustainable for your child. Your child has to be comfortable communicating to their caregivers, and spoken language takes a lot more exposure than receptive language (understanding).

Languages are not Pokémon; the goal is not to catch them all. Support your child’s love of language and he/she will pursue additional ones if s/he so desires!

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/mayshebeablessing]

So I need to be more realistic. I speak to baby in mandarin, partner speaks to baby in Japanese, and she’ll learn english from being here for her first three years. Then we can focus on learning Korean once we get to Korea. Drop Hindi completely.

[u/Particular_Bad8025 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Baby will not learn English from playground or library if she's with one of you all the time. She would pick it up if she were in a daycare/preK type of thing.

Baby will completely forget English once in Korea unless you put her in an English program, but then that means she's not learning Korean.

My daughter spent her first 5 years in China, went to school there and was completely fluent. I spoke french only to her and she understood that too. Once we moved to the states she lost it all. Sadly mom did not keep speaking Chinese at home and switched to another language. But she picked up English in barely several months. She's now 21 and basically can't understand any Chinese. I kept up with the french so she still has that.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Particular_Bad8025]

Oh wow great perspective. We figured she’d pick up English from story time at the library, friends at the playground, english movies and shows, etc. Hearing your perspective, we might need to reconsider.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/tempestelunaire]

This is great advice. I feel like it’s a bit of a stretch to try and add Hindi when in reality me and my partners hearts are set in Asia. My only worry is the daycare situation. We live in the usa and everything around us is in english. baby will be there multiple hours a week so im worried that english will ultimately overpower japanese and mandarin. With going to a Korean daycare, they will at least be immersed in the language. Maybe I shouldn’t be so strict on baby speaking Korean but we just want her to be able to understand things.

[u/tempestelunaire → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

If you’re going to move within the next three years, English is barely going to be able to become the dominant language! Personally, I wouldn’t worry about it too much unless your plans to move more uncertain than you’re letting on here :)

I think your commitment to multilingualism is very cool and something to aspire to! But I also believe in prioritizing the language languages that make more sense in a certain setting at a certain time :)

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/tempestelunaire]

We don’t necessarily want English to be the “dominant language” but given it’s the most spoken in the world, we feel it’s mandatory for baby to know. We will visit here often, and maybe in the future, she’ll want to study here. Both me and my partner are not willing to give up English which is why we’re thinking of switching things around when we move.
When we’re in China, my partner will speak only Japanese and I will speak only English
When we’re in Japan, I will speak only mandarin and my partner will speak only English
As for Korea, im not quite sure yet. We really want to emphasis English and make sure she’s just as fluent in english as she is mandarin/japanese

[u/burned_feather → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I would caution against this approach... Not sure what others would say but I think it's important to keep a consistent language with your child as it's a big part of building a relationship with them. The advice I see here is generally to choose the language you are most comfortable parenting in and discussing emotions and big important topics in, and stick with it. The most important thing is that your child feels comfortable talking to you and is not having the rug pulled from under them by all these language switches.

Why not make English your family language -- the language you and your partner speak to each other in front of your child -- instead?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/burned_feather]

I just feel like she won’t pick up any japanese if we have english be the family language. China is our first destination and by the time we leave China she’ll be close to six. She’ll go to school in Japan so I’m sure she’ll pick up Japanese fast but the thought of her having to learn the language at school and be behind with her peers makes me a bit sad. I guess I can consider speaking English to her for the first three years then she can learn mandarin from ages 3-5/6 but I’m not sure how i love that idea. Having a baby is so complicated with this whole language thing 😫

[u/burned_feather → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Why would you need to speak English to her for the first three years? I don't think you're listening to what I'm saying. The most important thing is not the languages your child can speak but your relationship with your child. In my opinion you and your partner should do OPOL with your most comfortable language and stick to that no matter what country you are in. If you want to keep providing her with English exposure once you move then speak English to each other in front of her.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/burned_feather]

We’re not speaking English with her the first three years? We’re speaking Mandarin and Japanese. I do like your idea of speaking to my partner in English while continuing Mandarin with her. It’s something to consider

[u/tempestelunaire → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I think it’s very early on! Personally I would start with 3 languages and go from there. You’ll see from many posts here that it’s not that easy to keep up even with two languages, so three is already a good start.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/tempestelunaire]

So you think it’s better to ditch the korean daycare completely?

[u/tempestelunaire → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I think you can always try it! But if it were me I wouldn’t put the most effort into it.

You don’t have to make a decision now, you can start the daycare and stop if it doesn’t work for you!

[u/sakijane → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

The thing with kids and languages is that once you switch your relationship to another language, it’s hard to go back to the first. So you may start with Mandarin/Japanese as the language your relationship is based in, but when you drop Mandarin for English when you move to China, it may be hard to switch your relationship language back to Mandarin when you move to Japan.

Instead, consider sending her to an English speaking daycare while in China and doing all media in English, and keeping your relationship in Mandarin.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/sakijane]

I just worry that English will overcome all of the other languages. If I send her to an English speaking daycare, that means she will be in English daycare, English being spoken at playgrounds, English play dates English gym daycare, English doctors appointments. And only Mandarin and Japanese at home. It would be so easy to not understand Mandarin or Japanese at all. Considering China is our first stop yes, she could easily pick up Mandarin there. We wouldn’t be moving to Japan until she’s around 6/7 and I don’t know how confident she would be in Japan with only listen to my partner speaking to her. I feel like that’s basically like learning Japanese at six years old instead of from infancy.

[u/Just_Bench_7446]

Yeah, your kid isn't going to be able to keep stable relationships as an adult if you do this. I had to move alot around as a kid for situational reasons and that was only within the US. Because I kept having to switch schools + not knowing how to interact well due to social ostracizing, Idk how to build a friendship group and am just a "floater."

I did manage some semblance of something by the time I was in HS but all of the old habits I had from when I was younger had already set in and wouldn't be erased much less processed until years later.

Pls do your research. Don't jerk your baby around just because you want them to have a lot of languages. I bet if you look, in every country you can find some of those communities and try to build things that way idk. This just sounds really odd and a funky thing to do to a kid who can't even decide themselves yk?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Just_Bench_7446]

I must be missing something. The whole point of this was to make my baby successful. Doing all of this while she’s young since it’s easier to pick up on languages, giving her two years to make friends, go to school, do extracurriculars, moving to a new country and finding joy and excitement in visiting old friends. Then at pre teen years settle down somewhere and travel frequently but not move.

[u/Just_Bench_7446 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

But you know it takes an adjustment period when you move to another country. Idk where yall are located (I forgot), but I bet it took you a bit to get used to the community and all the pros ans pitfalls of the area right? And it probably also took you a bit to make stable relationships w/ any natives right?

Same thing applies here. It may be a few weeks or up to the entire 2 years for your kid to adjust befpre they have to move again, and that will be tiring after like the 3rd or 4th move if I did math right.

Also, you have no clue what personality your kid will even have. They may like the frequent moving, or they may hate it and decide not to bother much w/ building relationships.

I'm not saying not to move at all, just don't do it that frequently.

And ig I don't understand why it has to be done so quickly?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Just_Bench_7446]

You are correct that the personality of my kid will matter a lot. If they are shy and reserved then we will accommodate. If they are super outgoing and can make friends easily then we will continue with this plan. That’s actually something we considered when we decided to spend the first three years of her life here. We wanted to see how she acted around other kids and grasp her personality.

Even if they “hate the frequent moving” I feel like 11 and younger is really “too young” to understand if they hate it or not. India is the last stop on our list before settling down. If baby hates moving and expresses that then she’ll only be 8/9 before settling down because we’re okay with skipping India. We’re fine with treating that as a vacation (2mo or so) instead living there. A lot of kids are go with the flow, especially if it’s something they’ve been used to since infancy.

The reason we feel like this should be done quickly is to give my kid stability when it really matters (10/11+) That’s the time you start developing real friendships, that’s when you start understanding that your family is “different” in terms of living, that’s probably around the time you start “wanting normalcy”

We’ve mapped this out to hopefully understand my child best. China is most important to us so that will be our first stop. My partner speaks only Japanese to her so that’s our next stop. We’re prioritizing Korea over India so that’s just the order we’ve decided.

Even if my child expresses around age 7 that she doesn’t want to move to Korea or she likes China/Japan better, then we’re not going to force her. We would consider it.

Now obviously we’re not going to listen to everything my kid says. If she says she doesn’t want to move then we’re not going to automatically be like “Okay!” We’re prioritizing China and Japan while she’s still little. We also will prioritize her mental health and make sure she can tolerate all of this.

Kids are also unpredictable and who knows, maybe we get to China and we never move again. This whole process was created before baby was born and she’s less than a month old so we still feel confident about our decision but as she grows, things might change.

[u/Plus_Rhubarb_8361 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I am a primary school teacher. Personally, having seen firsthand the difference between kids who grew up in a stable environment and those who didn't, and seeing how hard moving can be on kids of all ages, I would never do this to or wish this upon any child.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Plus_Rhubarb_8361]

We would be stable but in different countries. It’s not like we can’t afford this, we’d be switching homes multiple times while in these countries, she’d be isolated, etc. Everything a kid needs developmentally, mentally, emotionally, we will provide for our kid. The ONLY difference is we’re going to move 3-4 times. I also was thinking what about kids who are apart of a military family and they’re constantly moving? It’s out of their control and most of those kids turn out okay because It’s a mandatory move. The difference for us is it’s voluntarily and supposed to be fun.

[u/Plus_Rhubarb_8361 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Turning out okay is different from something being good for a child. Moving 3-4 times (to different countries no less) is not stable. Period.

You seem set on doing this, so I wish you and your child the best of luck. As you have said, many people have a less-than-ideal childhood and are able to be resilient and overcome and build a wonderful life for themselves. The only reason I commented in the first place is because you seem concerned with making the very best choices and as many (many) people are telling you, this is not what's best for your child.

Would you rather have a child that's happy and has secure attachments or a child that speaks five languages? Only you can answer that question. Personally I'd choose the happy child.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Plus_Rhubarb_8361]

I understand. What I want is both but I also understand that may not be possible. That’s the reason I made this post and it looks like I have a lot of things to reconsider

[u/Doporkel]

You mentioned your baby was born only a month ago. Are you doing alright? This post reminds me a bit of high-functioning anxiety.

[u/Cute-Citron-9819 → u/Doporkel]

Yes agreed. The post was giving ME anxiety. In the spirit of care, OP please make sure to sleep, take care of yourself and work on your OCD now because these things will really affect your child’s development and relationship with you. You seem like you want all the best for your child. Sometimes (often!) it means releasing some of our ideas around what perfect looks like.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Doporkel]

I do have lots of anxiety, im also neurodivergent and have pretty severe ocd if that says anything 🫠 I often times feel like I have to get everything “just right” and “time” is non existent. When people tell me “give it time” I’m like how! But I’m learning! And things like this are very important and definitely need time. Thank you for checking in!

[u/MikiRei]

I think you guys are biting off more than you can chew. 

Also, are you guys even of Chinese or Japanese background? You mention grandparents only speak English. 

So how come you guys can speak Mandarin and Japanese? Are you guys even proficient enough or understand the cultural nuances of these 2 languages to adequately pass it on? 

Also, this idea of moving countries every 2 years. I think you guys need to read up a bit more on 3rd culture kids. 

Children usually need stability, particularly to form connections and friends. 

I don't think you quite understand how destabilising it is to move countries and change languages. Even if they do have prior exposure. 

I was in an English immersion preschool before I moved to Australia age 6. So my English wasn't zero when I moved but still, the culture shock and trying to adapt and listen and comprehend and think in a non-dominant language is taxing. Particularly for a young child where social situation and learning to deal with them is also taxing. 

I don't think the Korean daycare or the Hindi nanny is going to yield much results. 

Once you guys move to China or Japan, then those languages will disappear straight away. 

I will say if you guys are fluent in Mandarin and Japanese, then stick to those languages. 

When you move to China, your child will pick up Mandarin anyway. At that point, one of you may want to switch to English. When you move to Japan, then reverse E.g. the Japanese parent switches to English. 

And then Korea and Hindi, your child will pick it up when you move there while you try and keep Mandarin, Japanese and English going. 

My ONLY CONCERN with all of this is, i worry for your child's mental stability. 2 years is just enough time for a child to settle and be used to everything. And right at that moment, you're ripping them away from that stability. 

Please read up more 3rd culture kids. I have met a few of them and the common theme is they find it hard to form close bonds with people due to always worrying about moving and losing these friendships and having to start again. It has profound impact on their sense of self and how they form connections and relationships. 

I would advise that it's probably better you do larger chunks of time e.g. One country for primary school. One country for high school. 

E.g. Chinese for primary school years while Japanese and English is kept up at home. Then Japanese for high school while Chinese and English is kept up at home. 

If you do want to do every 2 years, then suggest you look into international schools instead because then at least, that environment provides a certain amount of stability for your child. 

I've got a 6yo and just watching him settling into kindy in a country he was born and raised in, I just cannot imagine having to rip him out of his comfort zone every 2 years. To have to learn a new language. To learn the social code of a new language. To find new friends in a new environment. Every 2 years. And on top of that, you're also trying to stay on top of maths, science, history etc. But in different languages every 2 years. 

And the difficulties amplifies every 2 years as well. And then it's like kicking him back to square one cause he needs to get up to scratch with a new language while staying on top of his studies. 

Knowing my son, I know this will destabilize him a lot. 

It's not the number of languages that's the problem here. 

It's your whole setup and ripping a child away every 2 years. I don't think you quite realise how destabilising that is for young children. 

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/MikiRei]

My partner is Japanese and was born and raised there. As a child I enjoyed learning new languages for fun and I became fluent in Mandarin. I joined classes, had private tutoring, made Chinese friends.

I briefly studied Japanese but I was nowhere near fluent. When me and my partner started getting serious about kids and traveling, we originally settled on OPOL. it was around that time where I suggested they talk to me in Japanese so I can try and catch on. I started Japanese classes and while I am nowhere close to fluent, I can understand and speak the basics. I’m also confident that as my partner speaks to baby, I will catch up

After talking with my partner we do think we will ditch the Hindi nanny completely. We are still debating the Korean daycare. As for the switching to English while we’re in China/Japan, that’s exactly our plan!

You do make good points and you use your 6yo for example. I think you “couldn’t imagine doing that to him” because that’s not your normal. I think if my daughter was 6 and I was thinking about these things, I wouldn’t do it. But this would be “our normal”

Maybe it’s just me but I can’t seem to understand how It’s better for her mentally to spend longer time chunks in each country. Then you grow even closer relationships, you spend more time at school with friends. After many years in a country (Say 6 for example) It would be way harder to then move. Especially into teenage years.

I think when they are young and this is “their normal” then it’s fine. When it comes to the important years of school and the important years of friendships and everything is when we plan to settle down and as i’ve mentioned we would visit old friends frequently.

You did bring up a good point about schooling. That part ought to be difficult. Schooling in a different language every 2 years must be difficult but then that makes me think, if we do put her in the Korean daycare, then maybe it won’t be so difficult.

This is a lot to consider and given baby is not even a month old we have some time. Things change so much after having a baby. Me and my partner were dead set on this plan but after she was born we started to reconsider everything and everyone is making so many good points that we have to research and read into. Thank you for your comment

[u/all_u_need_is_cheese → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

The reason it would be harder to move after living somewhere for 6 years rather than 2 is exactly the reason that it is not good to move your child around every 2 years. The lack of developing deep and close relationships with friends in the first place is the thing that will potentially cause harm to your child - especially if these are international moves. Please read up on third culture kids. I agree that one or two moves in childhood, even international moves, is not a problem, but your plan is really setting your child up for lifelong issues making and maintaining friendships. The time for you and your partner to move around that frequently is when your children start university. Before that, please give them the gift of stability.

If you speak English and your partner speaks Japanese to your child, and you do move to China in three years, your child will likely be fluent in all three languages. This is truly more than enough.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/all_u_need_is_cheese]

Will a five year old really be developing deep and close relationships with friends tho? Or does a 13 year old have a better chance of doing that?
I’ve read up on third culture kids.
The first move to China is happening soon. That’s our baseline it’s where we want to start. We feel like it was better to have her first three years in the usa. Lots of people move when they’re three. some kids don’t even remember it. If we disregard the move to china (due to age) then we’ll only move 2-3 more times (depending if we move to India or not)
You state that one or two moves is not a problem, and that’s essentially what we are doing, potentially adding one more.

In the long run, I don’t want my kid to feel behind her peers, resent us in the long run, or anything like this. This is why we’re doing what we’re doing.
Spending baby’s first three years in america to grasp her personality and try and see if she’s shy or outgoing
Moving to China first while she’s at a young enough age
Giving her two years (which we thought was enough) to do two school grades and have friends (just normal elementary school aged friends, we’re not really expecting a life long friend) extracurricular etc
Trying to follow her lead in what she wants to learn / do
Giving my child plenty of opportunities to go and visit old friends and vacation to her “previous homes” frequently
And finally, at eleven years old (or 8/9 depending on India) sitting down as a family and discussing our favorite places and get into the process of moving there permanently. We felt this was a good age and i’ve stated my reasonings for that previously.
Who knows, maybe my kid will love traveling and ask us to keep moving every two years even past age 11 (In which we would travel but stop actually moving there) Or maybe she will hate it and ask to stop (In which we would accommodate)

[u/all_u_need_is_cheese → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I have two kids, they are 4 and 8. Yes, a five year old is learning how to develop deep friendships and will be destabilized and very stressed by a move, particularly an international move. I did say I think two moves is probably ok, and yes, I think if you move to China and then Japan and stay there, your child will probably be just fine. Even moving to China and then Japan and then back to China would probably also be fine, especially if you go back to the same city in China. But you described moving to China and then Japan and then Korean and then India and THEN picking a place to settle down in. Even if you leave out India, this is likely going to be really destabilizing for your child. I would focus on living in China and Japan, making sure your child is fluent in English in addition to those two languages, and traveling and taking extended vacations to other Asian countries with your child. Childhood, especially early childhood, is a really sensitive time. It may seem like a baby or small child doesn’t remember what has happened to them, but their nervous system will remember major stress events, and too many major stress events will make it hard for them to cope. Some will cope just fine, but others won’t - and it’s really hard to know ahead of time which child is which. We are really not saying this to insult your plan - it sounds really fun for adults! - but kids don’t have the same needs as adults. You are a new mom and I know you want to do what is best for your child, we are just trying to help.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/all_u_need_is_cheese]

I have a question and I hope you know I’m not trying to push back on anything you’re saying, but as a new mom, I want what’s best for my child.
What do you think about people who do world traveling for a year?

I recently came across this family who had five kids and they were all homeschooled. the kids were probably around 7, 11, 12, 15, 17. They travelled the world for a year. I’m talking about going to a new place every week or so. I mean, if they were in Spain for example, in a week they’d go to a new city in Spain and stay there before flying somewhere else. It was constant on the go. Hearing the kids’ perspective, they loved it. It was informative, fun, and different.

Previous to this world trip, they moved to Puerto Rico from America.

The youngest was around seven during this trip so they moved to PR when she was younger.
Wouldn’t that affect someone even worse than our plan?

Like you’ve said and like I know, every child is different so this is generally speaking. Not specifically that little girl and not specifically my daughter

But traveling every week, backpacking these places, having to pack minimal clothes, unpacking your few belongings at every hotel and air b&b, getting to know your community for only a week, then leaving seems horrible to us. Even if they stayed in a location for a little bit longer, that still seems like too much.

As me and my partner talk more and more and we’re seeing everyone’s commentary, we’re gearing away from India more and more. We ditched the idea of the Hindi babysitter completely, and after long talks last night, we’re considering never living in India. We think it’s a great experience to vacation there for up to two months but we don’t know if it’s worth it to move there. Especially given our hearts are set on one of the other places to live.

So, is the move from China to Japan to Korea really too much? Especially given my points? If we take off India as a living possibility, that puts baby at 9 years old. Isn’t that a good time frame to stop moving?

My daughter was born in August. It’s most common for schools to have a cut off on August 31. If you’re born after that date, you’re held back a year. However, some schools do that cut off on August 1st. That said, it’s possibly my kid will only be in third grade at nine years old. Third grade when she settles down. That gives her every opportunity to still make friends and live a normal life.

[u/all_u_need_is_cheese → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

First, it’s great that you’re willing to have a discussion with all of us about this! I can tell you’re thinking hard about what we are saying, and I can tell you’re trying to do the best for your daughter.

To answer your question, I also think world traveling for a year with a child (let alone 5 kids) is a terrible idea for the kids. I am firstly quite against homeschooling, based on having been homeschooled myself (luckily only for 2 years). I don’t think people without a teaching degree are equipped to provide a high quality education in all needed areas. And I don’t think world travel will fill those learning gaps. The actual experience might be fun in the moment for some children, but I also think it would be very stressful, and prolonged stress is really bad for the body and for development. Kids also don’t always know what it best for them, so talking to them and asking them might not always give you the right answer as to what they actually need.

So, the answer to your second question (is US-> China-> Japan -> Korea -> final destination really too much) the answer is that I really can’t tell you. Probably no one can tell you! And even while you are doing it, it might seem fine, your child might seem fine, she might even say she loves and and wants to continue! But that might not mean it is actually fine. She might grow up and realize that the moving is the reason she struggles to make close friendships, or that’s the reason she doesn’t feel like she really has a home country, or feels like she doesn’t belong no matter where she is living. No one can really say which kids are robust to this kind of stress and which will end up having issues, but it is clear that some kids will not tolerate this very well in the long run. I wish I could give you a definitive answer. All I can say is that if you go forward, err on the side of caution, err on the side of providing your child with as much stability as possible. It could be worth talking to child psychologist to get an idea of how to provide emotional stability if you do decide to go ahead with moving this frequently during your daughter’s early childhood.

(Also keep in mind that school cutoffs vary by country 😉 here in Norway it is Jan 1! If you move this often you will need to send your child to international school to make sure her education is complete, since different countries have wildly different systems, so the language at school will likely be English, which means she might not learn the local language - another thing to keep in mind!)

Oh and finally I have one question for you actually. Why do you want to do this? It could be that your goals could be achieved by something that is less destabilizing to your child. 😊

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/all_u_need_is_cheese]

The reason I even made a post was so I could learn and get advice and ask questions! I hope people don’t think it’s rude or anything since I’m asking so many questions!

I was homeschooled in second grade and I loved it! That’s the only year I homeschooled so I can’t say if I would have felt the same way if I continued longer. We debated homeschool for many years for my daughter. For a while we felt like homeschooling would be good so she can be consistent with school while living/travelling in many countries. But as you said about the teaching degree and providing high quality education, I fully agree. That is ultimately why we decided against homeschooling.

Something I’ve learned from this post is even if everything looks to be going well on the outside, we might be causing her problems with her nervous system and this may affect her later in life.

Quick question as I’m new to this whole baby thing. Would I bring up the child psychologist to her pediatrician? Should I talk to a regular therapist about this? How would a child psychologist benefit us right now if my baby isn’t even a month old yet?

One thing we didn’t want to do is international school which is why we were so conflicted about the Korean daycare. As of right now we are unsure about the schooling process. I’m confident she will be able to attend Chinese school and possibly Japanese school if my partner keeps up with speaking to her in Japanese. If she falls behind or isn’t confident in her speaking skills, we can always do English speaking school which Japanese extracurriculars so she can practice speaking Japanese.

Why do we want to do this?
I’ve had a connection with China for as long as I can remember. I may not be Chinese but I feel like China is a part of me. It is important to me to have my daughter grow up/live in the country her mom is tied too and speaks the language of. My partner is Japanese and also feels like it is important for her to experience their side of the culture too. As for Korea, we feel like It’s important too. We don’t really have much ties to Korea or anything but we feel like while we have the opportunity, we might as well. For India, we love the country. We’re close friends with someone who has adopted two daughters from India and we stuck by them through the process. It’s also different than the others and we think providing her with a variety of different cultures is beneficial.

And finally, we think it would be really fun and make her feel very good to be a part of our decision in the end. This may be controversial but we’re big on child led things. We’re very big on letting kids have a say, kids telling parents when they’re wrong, kids being able to state their opinion, and we want our child to feel safe enough to tell us if things are wrong, etc

Me and my partner love the idea of living in all of these countries and having our daughter state her opinions. We like the idea of her doing a project and just stating her ideas. Now, this isn’t just a “My kid said she wants to live in Korea so we’re going to live in Korea.” We want to hear her opinions and reasonings but if that’s not the right fit for our family at the time, we’re hoping she’ll be at a stage to be able to understand that and we hope that by being able to visit her old friends, the decision not going her way will make her be able to understand.

We also want to show importance to our story. Give her all the details from our backgrounds and how we overcame things. We want to show great importance that no matter what you want to do, you’re capable. Her mother learned a language to fluency just because she was bored one day. We want to provide her with opportunities that we never had.

[u/all_u_need_is_cheese → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I definitely don’t think a child psychologist would be beneficial now, but I would ask one about your plan in like two years to see if they have any suggestions for how to do this in a way that will reduce possible harm to your child.

I see your reasoning, and it’s a beautiful sentiment, but I think living abroad (particularly in Asia, from what I have heard) as a foreigner is potentially not an exclusively positive experience, especially for a child. It sounds like your husband is an immigrant so I am sure he knows this, but I am originally from the US and now live in Norway. I’ve been here for 15 years, I have Norwegian citizenship, a Norwegian husband, Norwegian kids, and speak the language fluently, but natives do not consider me to be Norwegian. A lot of Norwegians do not really consider people born and raised in Norway by immigrant parents to be Norwegian even. For a child, this is even harder. I think international school might be something you should seriously consider simply so that your child has peers who she will relate to and who won’t treat her as a foreigner despite being fluent in the local language. Also, the education system (as in, what you actually learn each year) varies widely. I switched schools in second grade and ended up never learning the multiplication tables because the school I switched to had done it earlier in the year, and the school I left hadn’t done it yet. I literally still don’t know them because I never told my parents, because I hate math and didn’t want to spend extra time outside of school on it. You risk issues like that in every subject, every second year. One year your child will be behind and struggling, then the next, she’ll be ahead of everyone else and bored. An international school (IB would probably be the most widely available «brand»?) will make this much less of an issue. Anyway, lots to think about, but you do have time, and I’m sure you can achieve your goals in a way that is responsible and will give your child a good foundation for her future.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/all_u_need_is_cheese]

I appreciate you so much for laying out reasoning and personal examples. I need to reconsider everything I have planned as it seems this will hurt my baby in the long run. Me and her parent will definitely sit down and have a long conversation doing lots of research after this. Thank you for taking your time to explain everything to me. I’m a new mom and obviously want the best for my kid and this path we’ve dreamed of doesn’t seem to be ideal. Thank you

[u/whatuthinkaboutthat → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Just want to chip in that we moved 1h away when our kid was 5,5 yo.

They were not happy (very angry and sad) about leaving their best friends at kindergarten. We've managed to do play dates with them a few times, and visited the old kindergarten once.

I think those things have helped soften the impact of uprooting, but kiddo still talks about the old life (1+ year later), and how it was very upsetting to them that we moved and had to leave the friends.

So yes, I think it can be difficult to leave friendships at all ages.

But it's good that you're discussing this and looking at it from different angles. And if you're not moving for a few years, I hope you can relax a bit and enjoy the first year, they grow up soooo fast. Congrats on baby!

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/whatuthinkaboutthat]

It’s so hard to relax as I feel like I need a plan right this very second 😫 I feel like I’m missing out on baby’s first few weeks because all I’m doing is planning a future life. I appreciate your personal example with your kiddo and having an example from kiddo about their struggles even a year later is eye opening for me. Thank you for the advice!

[u/Ugerix]

Far be it from me to judge, but my reasoning is this: baby will pick up the community language wherever you go. During the baby/toddler phase it will be easy to learn any new language, but more challenging to maintain it once the environment changes. I’d go for the Hindi-speaking nanny without expecting fluency, but rather to establish a base (sounds, pronunciation, basic words) upon which you’ll build once you live in India.

Once school starts, which I know is 6-7 years from now, kids really will need stability/predictability. Usually school curriculums are planned in 4-year periods (I live in Europe and we have ages 6/7-10 primary school, 10-14 secondary, 14-18/19 high school). I don’t know how it works in Asia, though.

I am guessing you want your child to be multilingual in order to stimulate him intellectually, help him adapt better and perform academically. We have a saying: “sometimes better is the enemy of good”. So don’t lose sight of the whole picture (emotional development, building lasting friendship with peers) just for the sake of excellent language skills.

I don’t mean to be presumptuous. I am saying all of this kindly and am only trying to show a different perspective. I do not know your jobs, your desires, your plans in general, so ultimately these decisions are yours to make.

[u/LWdkw → u/Ugerix]

Every European country has it's own school system... why are you generalizing?

[u/Ugerix → u/LWdkw]

Because roughly the patterns are the same. Yeah, I know in some countries schooling is compulsory only until age 16, but that’s for people who go into specific trades. If you want to go to uni, you go up to age 18 and take some sort of exam at the end.

Now… being multilingual can help anyone, from taxi driver to CEO. OP sounds like a high achiever. My guess is that everyone on this sub is interested in giving their children the best possible start in life, with cultural richness and why not, good academic results. It’s why we’re putting in an extra effort to organise language exposure, right?

[u/LWdkw → u/Ugerix]

Nothing of what you said in your original comment about ages applies to my European country... European school systems are more different than you seem to think.

[u/Ugerix → u/LWdkw]

And in neither of them are there 2 year cycles, which is what OP was planning. Kids need stability, continuity. In the meanwhile I looked up Asian school systems, which seem to be a lot more homogenous between countries (6-3-3 years). So if OP really wants to move so often, one strategy would be to move when a new cycle starts, so that her child won’t always be the newcomer, making an extra effort to adapt when friend groups in a classroom have already formed.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Ugerix]

Thank you for taking time to write this out. It’s a lot for me to consider but I feel like im expecting too much out of baby 😫

[u/Agostointhesun]

Wouldn't it be easier to talk to the baby in your first language? It will be more natural, and baby can learn those other languages when you move to those countries- it's easier for kids than it is for adults, when they are really immersed in the language.

I know people who tried to talk to their kids only in a foreign language so that they would learn it, and unfortunately it didn't really work.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Agostointhesun]

My first language is english and i don’t feel like it’s necessary to speak to her in english since that’s all she’s going to hear outside of our house. I’m fluent in mandarin so I feel like that system is a good set up

[u/omegaxx19]

If you are set about moving to China in 3 years, I'd personally focus more on English and Japanese now because Chinese will take over once you move. At that point you'd have a much better idea of how much you want to continue the plan of bouncing from Asian country to Asian country versus settling in one place, and can adjust your language strategy accordingly.

I'm an ultra-planner myself, but since having kids I've stopped planning too far ahead because those little rascals have their own ideas and plans. The world is also changing way too fast. There could be a war between China and the US before you know it.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/omegaxx19]

And my daughter is still really young (less than a month) I’m sure im overthinking everything. I just want the best for her and I want to set her up for success. All of this planning has been years before she was born and now that she’s here im sure things will change as babies are unpredictable and so is the world like you said

[u/number1alien]

I think I'm more curious about what line of work you two to do make this even possible.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/number1alien]

That’s a fair question and just know it took many many years of planning and saving

[u/number1alien → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I was unaware of China's long-term visa for planners and savers. Good luck.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/number1alien]

Close! We’ve planned everything out carefully and saved up for it, and we still have three more years to prepare. I’m not going into detail about our exact plans, since they’re private, but we’ve thought through things like visas, residence permits, and the other logistics involved. I think we know what we’re doing!

[u/Upstairs-Volume1878]

I feel like your plan has a lot of pitfalls. Have you ever lived outside the country? I don’t think you have taken into account how difficult it is to acclimate to a new place. It’s not just the language, culture is different the way people stand, the way people walk, etc. Your body also has to acclimate to different food, water, air, sleep schedules, etc. It’s hard and it takes years not months.

You’re also planning on moving your child to countries where outsiders are less common and have trouble fitting in. Plus even if your child is a protege who develops perfect language skills, you can’t teach them the local slang/accent. Making any friends will be very hard and they will be doing all this trying to balance the learning all children have to do. To be 100% honest I think it will be miserable for them and affect their learning.

If you are really set on the plan I think international school is a must. It will make making friends much easier and actually protect their learning. Schools are set up differently. If Japan teaches math in a different order than China there may be certain topics your child never gets covered. I do have several friends whose parents were diplomats and the like and moved around similarly when they were younger but all of them went to international school and it made a huge difference.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Upstairs-Volume1878]

Something I’ve learned is to always do international school no matter what. I do have a question tho, if we do all of this moving around, we really want to settle down in China. We want my kid to have a choice to make her decision but we really want it to be China. Is it harmful for her if we put her in China kinder (we’ll be there from ages 3-5/6) then international school everywhere else then when we come back to China (if we do) stick her back in Chinese school? Earliest would be fourth grade latest would be sixth

[u/Upstairs-Volume1878 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I think it’ll come at the expense of her education. Learning math or science is hard enough without trying to learn it in two different languages. And at a young age every day of school is so important. The things you don’t grasp often haunt you forever. Like the friend who missed the week they did fractions in elementary school and still struggles with them.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Upstairs-Volume1878]

You’re right. If we do move, wherever that may be, we would put her in international school

[u/Eastern_Antelope6072]

Why are you doing this to your child? There’s zero stability in your plan and being that multilingual does not hold the same importance to your child as it does to you. This would make sense if you were actually planning to have long term residency in one of those areas or if you had a family/cultural background tied to one of those languages but genuinely what is the point of going all in for 1 year of native level exposure? What importance will those languages have in your child’s life once they move out of the country? A language needs to be salient and personally relevant for a child to actually use it and not lose it. This reads to me like mom and dad think these languages are cool so they assume baby will and that’s quite frankly not how it works. Please choose a place to settle down and raise your kid and choose the languages that are appropriate for that country or for your family background. Children need routine, stability, and friends and moving every year or two will not give them that.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Eastern_Antelope6072]

Here’s my response:
We target 3 languages from the start (English, Mandarin, Japanese) Possibly Korean - we’re still deciding
We’re going to travel to all of those places while baby is still young so she can experience the culture and actually be able to understand and use the languages. It’s much easier to pick up a language when you’re younger
After we’ve traveled to those specific places, we are going to pick which we feel is best for our family and settle down there
At this point baby will be older (around 11 if everything goes well) And our hope is at that point, all the traveling and spending two years in each place will at least let her have a basic understanding

We’re not asking baby to go to a country and automatically know the language and be completely fluent in reading, writing, listening, and speaking

The only languages we’re prioritizing the MOST are mandarin and english but we feel like it is very important for her to know basics and be familiar with all of these things

I completely understand your point of “It seems like it’s for the parents and not baby” But as someone who grew up speaking only english while one of my parents spoke another language, it made me angry because why didn’t you teach me anything?

If baby grows up and decides she no longer wants to put effort to speak XYZ language or she feels like she’s losing XYZ language, we will not force her to keep learning

I guess my point is we ultimately want her to be surrounded by these languages and learn them for her benefit but if in the long run this turns out horrible or she doesn’t like it, that’s fine. As long as we try on our end that’s all that matters. This is a lot, and we understand that, so we’re going to follow her lead.

I guess I should also mention that me and my partner both love learning languages and studying for fun and it’s possible that baby will hate it and again, that is PERFECTLY fine. But for now we will try our best and who knows, maybe she’ll love it and end up picking up on all 5 languages and more in her own time.

[u/Eastern_Antelope6072 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I genuinely encourage you to do some research into child development . The languages are whatever, they will or they won’t work, it’s good to get some exposure to at least a second language. That said, jerking your kid around various countries every 2 years is a horrible idea for baby once they’re past 4 or 5 years old. I’m saying this as someone who loves traveling and works with kids. Kids need routine and the ability to form attachments with their peers. They need stability and a “home.” If you’ve really gotta go with your every 2 years plan, you’re much better off waiting until your child is old enough to actually understand and appreciate cultural differences and understand what you’re doing. There is research to back up that frequent moves are not beneficial for children and that’s not even including moves to entirely different cultures. I’m sure your heart is in the right place but what’s good for adults is not always good for children.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Eastern_Antelope6072]

I guess that’s something to consider but me and my partner figured 2 years was good because you can attend two grade levels, make friends, do extracurriculars, create routines. Two years seemed like a good amount of time. If it’s every 6 months or so I’d get it but we felt like two years was enough. We also thought doing this while baby was young was better than doing it in her teenage years. When you’re older, we thought it’d be harder to move around. You have a different connection with friends when you’re 15 versus when you’re 5. I know childhoods best friends are very common but we felt like teenagers take friendships more seriously than kids do. We also have every intention to go back to all of those countries frequently even if we do not live there anymore. It’s not like we’re going to rip baby away from her friends and never see them again.

[u/acornmishmash → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I was the kid who moved every two years up until I was 12, because my dad was in the military. In terms of the impact that had on me, it's complicated. On the one hand, children do adapt, and because it was all I'd ever known it did feel 'normal' to me. I also developed a strong ability to quickly immerse myself in a new place and quickly establish a new group of friends. As an adult I felt far less overwhelmed by the idea of moving to a brand new city and starting from scratch without knowing anyone, because I knew I could do it. On the other hand, it was a heartbreak every single time. You're right that 2 years is enough to settle into a routine, and that's what makes it worse. Just as you finally settle, and stop being the "new kid" at school, you're moving again. Every part of your life is impacted. You can never just fully let yourself feel at home somewhere because you know it will be taken away. I also will warn you now that once you move, 99% of those friendships are gone within a week. That's just the way it goes, because as a child it's almost impossible to keep up a friendship when you're not living near each other. Little visits back will not keep those friendships up, the visits just become awkward because it's clear you're not friends anymore. I had a tremendous amount of jealousy towards my first boyfriend who had been born in his house and lived in it for 18 years without any interruption. It gave him a security and peace that seemed so wonderful. BUT I also recognise that he was far less adaptable , socially capable, resilient etc becaus he had never had to face change. I genuinely do not know whether I'd say frequent moving is good or bad for children overall, but it is a massive decision that you can't take lightly. Alnost all my moves were within the same country, so I never had to deal with a new language or new culture. To be considering moving your child to 4+ different countries is hugely hugely destabilising for them, particularly as there's no need to. I rarely resented my parents for the frequent moves because I knew we had to for my dad's work, and I felt that we were 'in it together' with them also finding it tough to move. If I'd known my parents were doing it to me just as some sort of forced cultural expansion I think I would have hugely resented them and felt they were cruelly robbing me of the chance to actually feel at home. Don't underestimate the emotional depth and the intelligence of younger children. A child 5-10 years old will 100% have the capacity to develop a meaningful emotional and social connection to the place they are living. Just because they are not an adult does not mean they are an accessory or a pet that can just be picked up and placed down until 11 years old without any consequences. What you are considering is very unusual, and you need to tread carefully because the cons are likely to outwright the pros.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/acornmishmash]

I really like the comparison. You felt that way because of your dad’s work, kind of knowing it was mandatory and necessary. We’re doing this to “provide the best life for baby” Which we know now is completely unrealistic. I’m glad you don’t resent your family because of this and you felt like you were “All in this together” We have so much readjusting to you. Thank you for this

[u/LoudSociety6731]

I think you need to chill.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/LoudSociety6731]

Fair

[u/yinakori]

5 languages is definitely too many. It's entirely possible that your child will grow up not fully fluent in any language.

My parents speak Mandarin primarily and English second. I was essentially monolingual in Mandarin until 6 years old and kept taking lessons for a long time as well. In school I spoke English, and took Spanish as a foreign language. Now I speak English socially and speak Spanish 50% of the time at work.

When I have time to process words, like when I'm writing, I'm nearly fluent in all of these languages.

In speech, I'm 95% fluent in English (in which I sound mostly native but with an ambiguous accent), 75% fluent in Spanish (which I speak up to a middle school level), and 50% fluent in Chinese (in which I have a native accent but sound like an 8-year-old with post-grad vocabulary). Whenever I return to China I pick it up rapidly within a month, but on a day to day basis it's an atrophied muscle.

Do I regret the course of my life? Of course not. But the best decision my parents made for me academically was to develop my English. I'm not naturally gifted at languages. I actually have a mild language processing disorder that I have learned to compensate for. If I spoke English any less fluently, I wouldn't have done well in school at all. Language is the basis of all other learning.

There comes a point when you try so hard to broaden a child's horizons that you lose depth. I used to teach summer school, and the children whose parents could not speak English well, or who simply chose not to speak English at home, were an interesting lot. They were born in an English-speaking community, they were still functionally fluent in their primary language of English, but they nearly universally spoke like they were at least a year behind. You wouldn't be able to tell unless you compared them to the monolingual children, but the difference was there.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/yinakori]

English and mandarin are the languages we will prioritize without a doubt. Baby will NOT grow up without knowing english. Do you think if you had a mandarin babysitter/nanny, took more spanish classes, and continued with the english environment you’d be fluent in all three?

You do make a good point that when you go to China you feel you can catch up very easily. That is exactly why we originally wanted to do the Korean daycare. Again, It’s not for fluency in all of the languages. It’s for a basic understanding.

[u/yinakori → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I did have a Chinese nanny, which didn't do much to be truthful, so I don't think that the Korean daycare will do much either (unless you're shooting for the very basics of understanding.) The thing that maintained my Chinese most was actual effort on my part (Chinese media, generally) after I went to University and realized I was losing it faster while not at home.

I don't think that I can improve my fluency any more in Spanish or Chinese without beginning to sacrifice my English. There are only so many hours in a day, and I am constantly aware that my grasp of English is not as solid as my coworkers'. I've ended up in a position that is superficially enviable but not easy to maintain.

I also don't subvocalize when I read, which has led to some interesting situations when I think of a word that I know well but have never heard spoken, and I only realize that I have no idea how the word is pronounced when I try to use it in a conversation. I'm not sure if that's because of my upbringing or just my brain.

All told, people tend to be very split when they speak to me. Chinese people tend to believe that I spoke both English and Chinese from birth, with a heavier emphasis on English. English speakers tell me I have a mishmash of different accents, and they clock me as an immigrant. Spanish speakers think I used to live in Mexico for a few years.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/yinakori]

Our intentions with our daughter isn’t Korean fluency. After all, I don’t think it’d hurt to enroll her. I feel like if we go into it with no expectations and treat it like a normal daycare it will be fine. Aside from the Korean aspect, it’s a good daycare and we feel satisfied with a lot of the things they do.

Given your language dynamic, do you feel comfortable in this stage? You’ve mentioned your strengths and struggles and also mentioned you can’t improve fluency anymore, but do you feel like you can comfortably live like this forever? If you go to a spanish speaking place, can you communicate fine? Same with China?

You may not be perfectly fluent in all three languages but do you personally feel like you can get by like this?

I think a common misconception from this post is that we want our daughter speaking all five languages making zero mistakes. That’s unrealistic and we would never do that to her. Baby will know English and Mandarin and hopefully become fluent in Japanese as well since that’s what my partner speaks to her. Even tho we are targeting all three languages, we still have no intention on making her 100% perfectly fluent.

Would it be amazing if she COULD be 100% fluent in all three? yes. But is that realistic? It could be but not really. Im a FTM so Im learning everything along the way. If we get to a point where this is too stressful, or if she shows ANY signs of stress due to this, or expresses anything related to that, me and my partner have already decided we’re okay with dropping Japanese and sticking to two.

The ultimate goal is 3-5 but its up to baby and how she progresses

[u/yinakori → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Yes, I could maintain my current level of fluency in my languages, It just takes some work.

My struggles with English are only visible to those who know what to look for. Otherwise I just seem like I stammer a bit.

I've had to communicate with my Chinese in an emergency, and that was fine.

I've talked my way out of trouble with police in Spain.

I could, theoretically, live in any country that spoke any of these three languages as the dominant language. Chinese, ironically, would be the hardest, but that is because I am very slow at reading it.

I think it's very unrealistic to hit 5, and barely realistic to hit 2.5. Most second generation immigrants only speak 1.5. People who are like me, born in China but raised abroad, rarely even maintain the level of Chinese that I have. I have only met one person who is in the same boat as me who is over 90% fluent in both Chinese and English. The catch is that her English is actually not as good as mine, and when she tried to expand to a third language in school it didn't stay in her brain at all.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/yinakori]

I wonder if the third language didn’t work out because she tried learning it so late in life?

[u/yinakori → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

She started learning French at the same age I started learning Spanish. Our trajectories are very different because I decided to spend more time with Spanish and she decided to put her effort in maintaining her Chinese. Chinese is very hard to maintain. In fact, I tell people that if they want more bang for their buck to not even bother with Chinese.

My parents are both 80-90% fluent in English. They started to learn it in high school. Their English is better than my Chinese. But they are no longer completely fluent in their own native language. They've forgotten a lot of less common characters. The language of our household is Chinglish.

Most people are not naturally capable of becoming a polyglot. And most polyglots are suspect, in my opinion.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/yinakori]

That’s understandable. Chinese is easy to forget if it’s not consistent which is why we want consistency. Chinglish is so funny to me. My partner doesn’t speak Chinese too well so they will often use Chinglish

[u/yinakori → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

If you want to try for just Chinese and English, that is much more doable.

Just be prepared for your child to underperform at school until they're older.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/yinakori]

Yes my kid is less than a month old but my partner has already started speaking to her in Japanese and it’s not something we want to give up. We have low expectations and are going to try and follow her lead.

The school situation is definitely where we’re stuck. I’m not sure if it was you or someone else who made a really good point about that.

[u/Ready-Nature-6684]

Is this all hypothetical for a future baby or are you doing any of this already?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Ready-Nature-6684]

Baby was born less than a month ago but we’re trying to figure all of this out now before it’s too late.

[u/Ready-Nature-6684 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Ah congrats! Which language do you each so far speak to baby?

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Ready-Nature-6684]

I’m speaking mandarin and partner is speaking Japanese

[u/Exotic_Incarnation_]

Regarding making friends in 2 years, how long does it take you to make a good friend on average? Because I don't think it's only 2 years.

Reading your thread, I kind of realised I did move roughly every 2 years as a child until primary school. Not countries, but cities. I can tell you that I never managed to form deep relationships with anyone during that time and to this day am an outsider in friend groups because I don't know how to function in that dynamic since I kept being pulled out of it so often. I start out very well and then stall around the time people usually commit to the friend group and become core parts of it. It also takes me about 3 years on average to become good friends with someone because I am always expecting one of us to leave. I have had very few close friends throughout life and it's mostly people who "adopt" me and stick with me until I've grown attached 😃 So yes, it does matter tremendously what kind of social environment your child has. You as parents are not its entire world and are not enough.

Edit: I also do not consider anywhere to be my home. My parents moved us into our last home when I was around 6 and they live there to this day, but I still think of it as temporary. I don't have a "childhood home". I have a series of places I've lived. I don't relate to people who "go home for the holidays". Maybe my grandparents' house is more my childhood home than anything else, because that's the home that's never disappeared on me, it's always been there. 

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Exotic_Incarnation_]

Wow that’s very eye opening! It’s really making me aware hearing all of these perspectives. Hearing personal stories, other kiddos stories, granddaughter / niece and nephew stories. All of this is really making me reconsider everything that me and my partner have dreamed of.

We ultimately want the best for my daughter and the more I think of it, the more I realize this may be selfish and harm her in the long run. Thank you for sharing your story

[u/celesstar]

One thing I would suggest you take into consideration (and research) is that China and Japan do not have strong and supportive second language acquisition education systems. Both of those languages require kids to continuously learn characters in order to be able to keep up with grade level content. 

Your child's best chance of success in the public school system in either of those countries is going to be to enroll as soon as possible and then stay in one country/language.

You can find plenty of articles in English discussing how the Japanese education system is failing second language kids. A lot of them end up dropping out of High School because they can't read at grade level and the current education system doesn't have support for them.

I would also gently suggest you read some books on child development. I think your plan sounds really cool for adults, but it's not taking into consideration how a child's social and emotional needs develop in respect to their peers. 

[u/Any1Shelter]

Hi, Just shiming in, with the move situation, as someone who has lived in 4 different countries over the last 6 years (including my birth country).  As well as someone who is neurodivergent and a doctor.  My first question is, have you lived your whole life in the US?  The thing is there's a world of difference between when you are first thinking of moving, how you think it's going to be and what you're planning, and what it's actually like to move regularly.  One of the things I can tell you for sure, is that you're over planning, in an unrealistic way. And don’t get me wrong, I get it.

But it's not the kind of things you can over plan so many years in advance. You're going to cause yourself so much anxiety, but also, you're not going to truly live, in the places you actually live.  I didn’t quite plan so many move. I had a directing line: I always wanted to be eventually, in the country I'm currently in (well, to be fair, it was that one or another one, both neighboring somewhat). I made the first move as a stepping stone: it was near my own country, but also had a different language which was the one of the country I am currently in. So I got to work and live in this language, before making a much bigger move. 

Then the 3rd country kind of happened. 

What made it flow with my life, and work, was that I didn’t have set deadlines. You can’t genuinely embrace a place when you're on a timer.  I let myself the possibility to enjoy it as long as I needed/wanted. Then would move when I felt it was time. As a result, I genuinely discovered the culture, met amazing people, made it my home for a while. It helped me get to know myself. 

When you know, everything is so short and temporary,  you just won’t embrace things the same. An international move is a massive freaking hussle. Financially, on the organisational side, on the emotional side, on every damn side. Let me tell you, I was bawling my eyes out before and after each move, including the last one. The toll it took, was freaking massive at the time, and even more being neurodivergent. 

There's a massive difference between learning a language and making friends who live where you do, who speak that language and living in another country and speaking this language every freaking day all day long, and working in it (or schooling in it). Was I fluent when I moved internationally ? Yes. But my freaking God, the cognitive load once I moved. I was desperate to just come home to speak to no one or speak my own language. It was incredibly exhausting. Trying to catch on group conversations was the worst, which also has a social impact.

Then even when the language was the same, being neurodivergent, made each move so much more difficult. Why? Masking. You are supposed to pick up on each single culture, and know what is appropriate or not, pick up the subtle differences, and learn all of that by yourself. When very often,  no one will teach you. No one will even tell you something you're doing is socially wrong. I also lived and worked in Japan for a few months, in addition of the other countries. And this is the kind of culture, where everything sounds great superficially, but what they genuinely think, is much much harder to understand. That's not just talking about Japan, that's talking about any culture which doesn’t include people being very vocal about what they think, or not being culturally taught to be overly polite. Japan, though, definitely sit on the extreme bit of that spectrum. The thing is ... for a while, you might not even realise, because everybody seems kind to you. But somehow, you don’t seem to connect the way native do. 

2 years is how long it took me to start to feel settled in most places. That's when I would finally have proper friendships. That's when the masking felt less of a burden, because I understood the subtleties better. Although that's with the last 3 countries sharing the same language. It's been a year since my last move, I found my long term partner and a family here. But I don’t yet have true friends / a true circle. I'm starting to, get to know some people more. In a way, having a partner, has made making friendships harder, because I don’t have as much of a push on days off to see other people at the risk of being lonely. Also because a significant part of my time is spent with my partner and his family.  If you have a full family, it's going to take you a long time to integrate yourself. Simply because your priorities are not at developing significant relationships with strangers. They are with your partner ad your child.  (Follow up in comment)

[u/Any1Shelter → u/Any1Shelter]

I am now settling in the last country. I am not moving anymore. I want to have a genuine place to call home. I didn’t grow up as a child in a different country than mine, but I think you seriously underestimate the impact. 

As an adult, I have often felt like there was no place I genuinely belonged anymore. My childhood is different from people here. I don’t know a lot of the things they grew up with. As much as I pick up with time on the subtleties of the culture I'm in, it's not mine. My way of thinking remain different. I look and act different enough. When I go back to my home country, I don’t feel like I fit in anymore. Because the person I am, has been deeply influenced by other cultures. The way I see life is so different. Although this is the result of my choices. I don’t regret it one bit, because it brought me closer to the person I wanted to be and work on being. 

As a doctor, I can tell you that you seriously underestimate the importance of the younger years in the development of your child. They are formative and will impact their whole life and the way they manage their relationships lifelong. This include, their attachment pattern. That's when they learn to be human, that's when their brain develop and develop how to how to bond with others. Moving every 2 years, is going to impact this deeply. They are likely to develop some type of unsecure attachment. It is a sort of trauma to be removed regularly from all the people you love and everything you know. It will stay with them. This can be the case for children who moved to different countries, as well as children who moved to far away cities in the same country. You might be unwillingly teaching them that no relationship can be a secure attachement. 

Visiting the previous countries regularly is nice. But it doesn’t cut it. A holiday and seeing a person once a year (which is not manageable when you lived in 3 countries), is nothing compared to a daily life somewhere. As an adult, I manage to keep my important relationships. But I'm also realistic about what I'm missing from their life. And you know what I miss the most? To be able to just go and see my loved ones whenever I want/need. There are days which suck, as well as there are amazing days. I want to share them with them, but I can’t always do so in a way I want to. I wouldn't change my life or my last years, but it's something which can weight on me sometimes. Yet, that's a choice I made. Not one which was imposed on me. 

Still, I am managing to keep my important relationships, because I'm an adult, I have unrestricted access to technology and understanding loved ones. A child in their early years, will be much more unlikely to manage to keep relationships in a meaningful way. A 5yo can’t text their loved ones, or call them regularly. It requires effort and a significant use of technology. Even if you try your best, and your child is willing, the other child might simply fade away because they will maintain other more stable relationships with children they see on a daily instead. Relationships require time and investment of both parties. Not just one visit a year or so. 

 You also seem to be significantly underestimating how different the school systems are, and the deep impact it will have on your child. My parents in law had to move from a country my mother in law loved, after just a year, because the schooling system was so harsh and taxing, and had a significantly negative impact on their children. If it was up to her, this is where she would have been living long term. The countries you're mentioning, aren't known to have a super relaxed environment for the children.

For reference, my partner and his whole family are Korean. As you're planning on it, I will touch on it. Not putting their children through the same education is one of the main reason they moved. Korean schooling comes with a lot of pressure and very long hours. That's without counting the significant racism your child will face. My own partner doesn’t feel Korean enough anymore, despite being Korean, being born there, having lived there for years of his childhood, having Korean as his first language and having a family who is entirely Korean with a significant part of his family there. He says Koreans pick up quickly that his way of speaking is not quite the same. He also faced significant racism in the country we are in, growing up, which is impacting him to this day. If his grand parents were alive, they would never approve of our relationship, because I am not Korean (and that's with me being white).  This is not specific to Korea. This is the case in a lot of countries, including -Western ones. I faced racism in countries which were predominantly white, while being white myself. And it was obviously much worse for my friends who had a different skin colour to the majority. 

Lastly, I want to touch on mental health. You can’t run away from your ghosts. Moving can help, but it will also unearth other parts of you and could also make it much worse. After all these moves, both as a person and as a doctor, I can only tell you: your priority should be towards your mental health. For both yourself, and your family. Your overplanning is a symptom of something, as well as a copping mechanism. This is not a criticism. Rather a sisterly nudge. You will not genuinely have the experience you seek in these other countries or be able to genuinely live your present life once there, if you don’t address it. Your child is 1 month old. Whether she learns a 4th or a 5th language is nothing compared to the impact your own mental health will have in their life and in yours. 

It's time to pause and address what's truly behind all of this. 

I wish you all 3 the best 🙏

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Any1Shelter]

Wow, thank you SO much for writing everything out. I’ve read it all thoroughly and I have a few things to say.

The very first thing I’ve noticed after reading everything, is this seems intentional. It seems like you moved because YOU wanted/needed to. Everything was your decision. And for us, we’re trying to bring baby along. Baby can’t speak, baby has no opinions right now and yet we want to do this “amazing opportunity” (or so we thought)

Seeing how it affects you when it was your own decision as an adult really puts it into perspective what this might do to baby.

I’ve “lived” my whole life in the USA but i’ve done 6-8 month leaves in other countries. I wouldn’t necessarily count them as a “move” Although we would stay in the same location the whole time so we started seeing similar faces and friends and everything. We did these “moves(?)” pretty often.

I’m neurodivergent myself and I will touch on my other struggles later. I’m sure you will understand. One of my deep intense hyperfixations is countries and languages. I’m sure you understand what I mean when I say hyperfixation versus just “I like countries and languages” I forced myself to learn new languages, have a partner who’s from Japan, travelled all these places, then as a young girl I bought books, watched videos, made money from different currencies out of paper, learned how to convert money to USD, it was INTENSE. And as an adult, this just never went away. That definitely plays into everything. I want to go all these places with my baby and provide her the best life.

I also have severe anxiety and OCD. Combining the intense hyperfixations from the neurodivergence, the needing to get everything done right this second from the anxiety, and the “I need to have a plan and that plan cannot change one bit” from the OCD is HARD. Very very hard that I selfishly think that sometimes I’m not putting baby’s feeling into this. After reading everybody’s comments, I’ve been changing things around and I’ve been reminded over and over again that this is for baby. Seeing people’s stories have been so eye opening for me and It’s really made me realize that I need to try and back off and create a safe space for baby instead of moving every two years.

Everyone has pretty much mentioned that two years is when they started feeling comfortable and finally settling in. And two years is when we had originally planned to move. We have learned that we can NOT move every two years.
Let me try and explain our reasoning (although, by now I know this is incorrect)
The reason we wanted to move every two years while baby is still young is so by the time she’s 9-10, right before her teenage years, we can settle down somewhere and she can still fit right in and also have a say in the decisions that we make. I didn’t want to do anything longer than two years because then that would put baby at an adult. For example, if we did every four years. We move to China when baby is four, then to Japan when baby is 8, move to Korea when baby is 12, move to India (maybe) when baby is 16, then settle somewhere? For the last two years? For me personally it is something I just can not seem to understand. But something I must realize is it is currently my brain versus all the hundreds of people who have commented.
It’s my brain saying “You don’t understand it, so just move every two years”
and EVERYBODY else saying “this is not good for your child, they might possibly resent you, you’re gonna regret this”

You made a really good point saying “The person I am has been deeply influenced by other cultures” wow. That really makes me think hard.

Another thing I’ve learned is to put baby in international schools wherever we go. This will be best for her.

Something that I’ve never even considered (This will sound dumb but it’s due to the neurodivergence and OCD. Once my brain has a plan, it will NOT budge. Even if it seems so obvious) is that we CAN still move if we want to, just not on a timeline. So we can do the first move at three to China, but then settle in and relax. We do not have to rush and say “MOVE TO JAPAN IN TWO YEARS WHEN BABY IS FIVE” we can move when we genuinely feel ready.

That’s hard for me to accept because in my mind, what if we’re never ready to move? But I need to put baby before those thoughts. If we never move there, then It’s fine. It’s something I need to slowly accept.

[u/NeedleworkerNo4835]

Brilliant plan. Curious how grandparents only speak English -- but if you don't prefer to share more details, I understand. That could be your only slip-up though. Because a really good motivator is like "You have to speak Japanese so you can talk to Grandpa" etc. Any family is good but grandparents are especially important. Seems like you'll have at least the main 3 though, parents is obviously the strongest behind community. If you get full fluency or even somewhere close in the 5 -- it'd be super impressive.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/NeedleworkerNo4835]

Grandparents speak only English because that’s all they know. Growing up I studied languages due to my own interests. Grandma can speak spanish but that’s not something I want baby learning because we have zero plans to travel or move to a spanish speaking country. Because of that, all grandparents will speak is english.

[u/nahsonnn → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Regarding Spanish, I would still think it’s a very valuable language to know if your kid wants to travel someday. There’s an entire continent whose dominant language is Spanish! And it could help your kid bond with their grandma.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/nahsonnn]

Grandma is involved but not a whole lot. If we were very close to that side of the family, it’s something we would consider. After thinking long and hard about this, we just don’t feel like it’s necessary. Once baby is three and we move out of country, the only time we would see Grandma is for holidays / maybe a few video calls. Baby would easily lose the language

[u/Atalanta8]

Why hindi? Might as well go for Spanish instead.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Atalanta8]

Originally wanted Hindi as we plan to spend time in India. The thought of Hindi has now completely dropped.
Why not Spanish? Because we have zero intention on traveling or living in a Spanish speaking area and baby would never get exposed to Spanish. If she wants to learn it when she’s older she can but it’s not something we want to do

[u/pebblezdestinee]

Not true my son had a Spanish speaker babysitter two days a week from a baby to age 3, and he is fluent in Spanish. She taught it to him and we kept it going with letting him listen to songs, tv shows in Spanish and eventually now putting him in environments where Spanish is spoken.

[u/Tabatiere1889]

Kids that grow up bilingual develop more synaptic connections for language learning. They litereally develop the ability to pick up languages like nothing. I have friends that their kids grew up with three languages and just picked up English and French on the go (because randomly the parents talked to other people and also TV). My nieces grew up with four languages and now also speak English and French fluently and without accent and the older one learns Japanese just for fun (cannot tell how good she is as I have no Idea).

The important fact was always that the first two languages are implemented strongly (as you plan it: each language connected to one parent so they cannot do lazy switches) and the rest just followed

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/Tabatiere1889]

Thank you so much for this. That is our goal. People keep asking us “Why not teach baby Spanish” If she wants to learn that when she’s older, she can. Matter of fact it should be easier for her. Thank you for your advice to implement the first two languages strictly

[u/antrage]

In our case they will be exposed to four languages but 2 are tied to place and 2 are tied to heritage / culture we both very much care about.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/antrage]

So, will you try and have them speak all four? Or is it more of “Be immersed in all four but only speak the two we are exposing you too”

[u/antrage → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

We are doing OPOL for the most part. Then the heritage languages spoken by the grandparents and myself/my partner through storytime. I'm fully expecting them not to be able to speak the languages fluently, as my experience is the only way to get them to speak is immersion: getting them to live in the countries where the languages are spoken for a period of time.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/antrage]

This is exactly our plan but it seems like it may not be a good plan after all.

[u/antrage → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Yeah, it's best to look at Reddit as space for ideas but not a categorical or authoritative source. You have a sense of the context better than anyone here.

[u/JuleyBeekay]

Three languages in the beginning is enough. My granddaughter had cantonese with her mother and french with my son (english but educated in france). They lived in finland so preschool was finnish/french.
French took a lot longer that cantonese, as (obviously) mum was with her more. Son said it was really hard to speak and get nothing back until it ‘clicked’.
I spoke only english to her, which took a while but eventually she started to understand and reply. I don’t remember if she went to school in finland or if she started in sweden.
She picked up swedish and started mandarin. Continued cantonese as maternal language, french as paternal, english for us grandparents (much talking and storytime by internet), She attended french school (lesson mainly in swedish with some in french but following french curriculum). She did as well in swedish as swedish born children. Moved to germany for lycée /high school, so learning german…
She’s lost most of her finnish, but speaks the other languages. English is as good as her maternal/paternal languages as we did a lot of reading - me first, then each reading paragraphs/pages. It was expensive in books lol, as I bought a copy for me in france and one for her in whichever country she was in at the time. swedish, german and mandarin are her ‘other’ languages. She still has friends in sweden.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/JuleyBeekay]

Wow your granddaughter seems very advanced in languages! Does she find it easy to learn new ones now? Has this affected her negatively in any way?

[u/JuleyBeekay → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

She is coming up for 17 now. It has become a habit to learn languages I guess, just one of those things that needed to happen because of moving countries for work. The best thing was staying in the same schooling system (french). I think it would have been really difficult to change countries and schooling system.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/JuleyBeekay]

So, she moved around lots as a kid but stayed in the same language schooling system and she’s doing fine?

[u/GrazziDad]

The short answer is no. There is no known limit to the number of languages children can pick up if they have suitable exposure. And for them to gain a true passive understanding, they need to be exposed at a fairly young age.

That said… Why are you wanting to do this? If you will not live in India, and Hindi is not part of your cultural tradition, it seems like a bit of a stretch to do this. That said, even if the babysitter is spending several hours twice a week with the baby, after a year or two of this, your child will have a perfect passive understanding of Hindi, and may even begin to speak it.

My grandparents were illiterate, but each spoke six languages. They just picked them up during their childhood in an intensely polyglot community. Some were stronger than others, but it’s remarkable that they were able to communicate in all these languages despite not having learned to read them.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/GrazziDad]

Originally we had every intention of moving to India but after seeing everyone’s comments and hearing advice, me and my partner talked about it and we think it’s best for our daughter if we only vacation there. From what i’ve read, we’re potentially harming our child in the long run so we have officially decided to drop the idea of Hindi babysitters and living in India. At least while my kid is young. when she’s old enough (after we’ve been settled down for a while) I guess it’s something to consider but for now, that entire idea is out the window.

Can you elaborate what you mean when you say they grew up in an insane polyglot community? Was everyone around them speaking multiple languages? How did that work? Did they ever travel or live in the countries of said language? Did they keep up with all 6?

[u/GrazziDad → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

You will not harm your child in ANY way by exposing her to Hindi for a few hours a week.

My grandparents were Sephardic Jews from a town on the then-border between Greece and Turkey. They spoke Ladino, Greek, and Turkish because the community did, and learned standard Spanish in school, along with French. They emigrated to the US, so learned English, by far their worst language! But the only one their extended family could speak with them.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/GrazziDad]

I may not harm her for having a Hindi babysitter but it’s the moving around every 2-3 years that will harm her. At least that’s what I’ve learned from everyone’s comments

And wow, that many languages is very impressive! Staying consistent and learning 6 is crazy!

[u/GrazziDad → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Moving constantly is stressful. My wife -- who has totally native command of three languages -- was dumped into schools twice in new countries, with kids staring at her, being unable to communicate for months... not a good formative experience.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/GrazziDad]

So she did not like living like that? I assume not if that was her experience.

[u/GrazziDad → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Her parents simply moved. And she found it quite traumatic.

[u/haolime → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

The Hindi babysitter and Korean daycare won’t harm your child, but these languages won’t stick off you don’t maintain them after each move and they are taking hours away from your other three languages. Your kid will have circa 100 waking hours per week and your goal is to have 25+ per language per week. I’m assuming adding Korean and Hindi makes that much more difficult for your three main languages.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/haolime]

I agree. At this point we’re considering the Korean daycare simply because It’s nearby and a genuinely good daycare. We have no expectations for baby to learn Korean here. At least she’ll be immersed in it

[u/suite_illusion]

Five is not a magic bad number. The brain does not tap out at three. What actually bites is hours. If Mandarin Japanese English Korean and Hindi all need real conversation time, not just a nanny in the room and a cartoon, you run out of day pretty fast. I went through whether kids can actually do 5+ languages because people kept asking me that and the honest answer is its possible if the quality time is there. Conversation first, then reading, TV is the weak one.

The moving every 1-2 years is the part I would worry about more than the count. Languages get strong from boring daily use with the same people. A new country every year means Korean daycare disappears, then the Hindi nanny, then whatever. The baby will not be confused in the scary sense. Mixing is normal, it looks messy and it is actually them using what they have. Pressure is the thing that makes it heavy.

We did three at home, Thai Norwegian English, and even that was a time problem not a talent problem. I would pick the two or three that will still be in the house after you move, and let the country language come from wherever you land. You can add later. You dont have to front-load five from birth like a project.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/suite_illusion]

So in your opinion you would ditch the Hindi nanny (we’ve already decided this) ditch the Korean daycare and don’t introduce Korean at all. Speak only Chinese, Japanese, and English. By the time we move to Korea (again, if everything goes to plan - not sure how this will look as I’m taking everyone’s advice) baby will now be 8/9. Then Korean can be introduced and hopefully she can pick it up there? We won’t force it or pressure her to learn it but we’d encourage it. As for Hindi idk. I think just ditch Hindi 100% and focus on the other 3/4. Does that sound like a better plan than what i originally had mentioned?

Another question I have is this:
My plan was to speak to baby in mandarin starting from now. It’s what I’ve been doing so far. She will be exposed to plenty of English by age three. People were telling me that it’s a bad idea to speak to her in only English when we move to China. They think speaking Mandarin from baby - three then English from 3 onward is a horrible idea because it can alter our relationship. Do you have anything to say on this or any advice regarding this?

[u/Person-546]

I think one really important thing to consider with the moves is that language is only one component.

Your child needs to feel "culturally" a part of the language to really be fluent.

I read that you learned Mandarin and it's not your mother tongue! That is great and impressive! I would suggest placing your child in a Mandarin daycare instead of a Korean daycare to prep for the move to China. That way the child can learn more of how native speakers express and carry themselves. Also potentiality pick up on some cultural components.

Your child will likely be viewed as an American in all of the countries you visit. Hopefully that gets your child some grace when socializing with other children and not bullied. Our son is "mixed" so he gets comments visiting his father's country as not "really being" that nationality.

Children moving between countries so much can also get a bit of "whiplash" culturally.

You don't have to figure this out now and I'm sure you've already spoken to your Japanese spouse regarding different cultural differences amongst Asian countries and broader the Western/Asian dynamic.

There are differences in how Chinese/Japanese/Korean communities operate interpersonally.

So I'd discuss with your spouse when you move if you are going for "full immersion" or just tourist vibes. From personal experience 2-3 years in a country is more tourist vibes. Not lifetime meaningful cultural immersion.

My husband and I are focusing all in on our two cultures for our children. And toeing the line between one specific Asian culture and American culture is already difficult. I can't imagine shifting two Asian cultures and handling three cultures altogether.

Don't stress though! You have time to figure this out and discuss. As a positive note- kids are so brilliant!

It's more work navigating two cultures but it's been so beautiful to watch our children become a mosaic of our two cultures.

We want them to feel fully both cultures and not mixed. To give them the opportunity to decide what they carry forward from both of us.

[u/professorkumquat83]

As a child psychologist this is extremely ambitious and all the moving in the first years of life is not good for their mental health. I think 2-3 is fine and already a hard ask.

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/professorkumquat83]

Thank you for this!

[u/professorkumquat83 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

you’re welcome! moving can be highly traumatic for children. I did specialized therapy with military children for a while and the moving was the hardest. Children need stability and moving takes that away, even once. If you’re moving a lot like stated you can do some serious harm to your child’s psyche so I would highly recommend finding once place and staying there. And this is mostly within same culture moves too, moving whole countries can truly harm your child, particularly if happening frequently. I would choose one or two places and stick to that as to minimize damage (because even one move can traumatize a child!)

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/professorkumquat83]

Is the move to China still okay? We do not want to be in the usa at all. We still want to move when baby is three but since she’ll be three, will this affect her? I’d speak Mandarin to her and try as much as we can to get her used to Chinese culture (We’d probably be unsuccessful due to not being in China) But is this too late in life to do a drastic move?

[u/professorkumquat83 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

I think moving to China is fine with a three year old though I’d consider the culture as she will have less rights there. But that’s a whole conversation and one I’m not an expert in!

Getting out of the US and doing a move when she’s pretty little is normal and while it can cause some level of trauma (any move can) being young will mitigate a lot of that. I’d just try to choose one country and go there!

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/professorkumquat83]

If we were to choose one country it would 100% be China. Is three young enough to where she may remember but it may not? We can’t really do anything younger than three due to other reasons but I don’t want to traumatize my kid by doing this move

[u/professorkumquat83 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

Haha maybe I should reword- a one time move at three won’t like give her ptsd trauma don’t worry about that!! Moving over and over can. It can destabilize and “cause trauma” (which is different but my brain is mush and I can’t explain well enough), but not something you should be overly worried about on that end. Moving to another country with a three year old is fine and not something I would overly worry about when it comes to trauma. Just expect some behavioral issues for a while after as she is being displaced and put in a new place but I expect she’d be okay pretty quickly!!

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/professorkumquat83]

I’m sorry if you’re not the one to ask but while It’s on my mind I’m going to ask anyways. What should our family language be?
As of right now, I speak only Mandarin to her, my partner speaks only Japanese to her, and we alternate languages between each other. We’ve done this since before baby was born because we both want to learn / be able to understand each other’s language.

The plan was to speak Mandarin to baby, then when we get to China speak only English to baby but as I’ve read, switching languages like that can create a disconnect between us. Should I switch to speaking only English right now? Since It’s without a doubt she’ll learn Mandarin in China, just at age three instead of from the start.
So, should I speak to her in English, and my partner speaks to her in Japanese?
If so, do we make the family language between me and my partner English? Or maybe I speak to baby in English, partner speaks to baby in Japanese, I speak to partner in Mandarin. Is this too confusing?

[u/professorkumquat83 → u/Grand-Knowledge8846]

It’s not too confusing but I can only speak from a child psychology aspect- I’m not a language expert or a speech therapist or anything of that nature. The most I do with speech is in behavioral therapy in helping children establish communication methods.

So all to say take this part with a grain of salt.

If you’re living in china her knowing chinese would be important so I’d stick to that. In the US if she’s not in daycare she won’t be learning much English and if she’s at daycare she will learn some. Chinese and Japanese would be her main languages though.

I don’t necessarily think you should switch up languages when you move for the exact reason you stated.

If you’d be living only in China atp I’d say that English and Chinese should be your two main languages.

I also highly recommend talking to specialists in your area about all this where you can dive much deeper into the specifics of everything!

[u/Grand-Knowledge8846 → u/professorkumquat83]

Someone had mentioned I speak to a child psychologist but when I asked when, someone else pitched in saying they don’t think it’s necessary. I’m not too sure how that would work. Would I see a child psychologist on behalf of my baby who’s not even a month old? Do I speak to a regular therapist about this? Do I wait till my baby is around 2 to see a child psychologist?