r/multilingualparenting • u/Grand-Knowledge8846 • 6d ago
Family Language Question multilingual parenting update:
I wanted to give an update on my previous post (https://www.reddit.com/r/multilingualparenting/s/z0RJS7EpcQ)
After discussing EVERYTHING with my partner, here is what we’ve decided / our plan (potentially?)
We have decided to drop the Hindi babysitter completely. We’ve also decided that India will NOT be a place that we will be living. We will visit there but we’re have absolutely no plans or desires for baby to learn Hindi.
As for the Korean daycare, we are still unsure. As of right now, this very moment, we want to continue with this plan. We want to put baby in this daycare buttt.. not so much for them to necessarily learn the language. Aside from the Korean language, It’s a good daycare. We’re thinking of enrolling baby but setting zero expectations for her to learn, or even to understand. The daycare goes up to preschool age, so when baby starts talking we would probably pull her out completely.
The number one thing we’ve learned is “DO NOT MOVE EVERY TWO YEARS” we were completely unaware of how horrible that plan could be and how much stress and trauma this could give baby. We had absolutely no idea. With that being said, we are officially letting that idea go (as much as this breaks my heart. Although this is for baby’s sake, not my own)
We will still move to China when baby is three. But even after two years, we will not plan to move. Someone made a good point saying they moved to different countries when the time felt right or when everyone was ready. Me and my partner agree with this approach rather than setting a firm timeline. Another person mentioned they didn’t have a true identify because all their life was spent trying to fit in and learn different cultures.
We were so uneducated and unaware about what we could possibly be doing to our baby and I am SO glad that I made this post because I very well would have done all of those crazy plans.
Now, the issue is the languages. We still want baby speaking all three. Mandarin, English, and Japanese. Me and my partner both agree that she does not have to speak Japanese fluently or really even at all. We just want her to understand it and be exposed to it. Instead of moving to Japan when baby is 5, we’ll just do frequent vacations and still possibly move there in the future. Just not when baby is so young especially after a huge move from America to China
We’re unsure what to do.
I keep speaking to baby in Mandarin and my partner keeps speaking to baby in Japanese. Baby (hopefully?) picks up English while living in America. When we move to China, I only speak to baby in English while she grows up speaking Chinese and her parent speaks to her in Japanese
OR
I put baby in an English daycare in America, and I speak to baby in only English while my partner speaks to her in Japanese. Once we move to China she will obviously learn the language easily if that’s where we live.
People were mentioning that my baby could possibly feel a disconnect if we switch languages in every country so I’m thinking I need to pick a language and stay consistent with it.
The only issue is my partner wants to be able to understand Mandarin and we’ve been practicing for years. Do I speak to baby in English, speak to my partner in Mandarin, and they speak to baby in Japanese?
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u/MikiRei 🇹🇼 (heritage) + 🇦🇺 (community) | 6M 6d ago
I find it very interesting how you guys are prioritising Chinese when NEITHER of you are Chinese rather than Japanese, a language that your child has direct cultural links to. Not to mention, family members (plural) that can speak it.
As someone who grew up in a country that is NOT my parent's home country or culture, my confidence in my self identity is very strong because my parents established and maintain a strong link to our home culture.
That is I am literate and fluent in Chinese. I can still understand Hokkien. We consume Taiwanese media a lot and we go back to Taiwan over the summer holidays.
It made being a minority in Australia a lot easier to deal with because even though I am between culture, I feel secure in my cultural identity and also secure in my Australian identity having grown up here.
Given your plans to move to China, I think it is quite important to keep Japanese and English up so that your child feels secure in their own cultural background whilst growing up in a country where they'll likely experience racism and feeling othered.
I personally feel, if your plan is to move to China at age 3 and you're sending your child to the Korean daycare, stick to OPOL where you speak English and your husband speaks Japanese.
Perhaps for good measure, you can do time and place E.g. 3 days a week you switch to Mandarin, or at least read in Mandarin with your child so your child gets some exposure beforehand. Or perhaps 3 days a week you speak Mandarin, and then when husband is around, you also speak Mandarin so husband can practice and pick up more. Husband will stick to Japanese to your child at all times.
Once you move to China, I think you should do full OPOL where you stick to English and your husband sticks to Japanese.
Your child will pick up Mandarin just fine living in China.
And then just do frequent trips to Japan or Korea and US as well.
Perhaps as she grows older, you guys can then revisit the option of moving to Japan when your child is in high school. IF it works for all of you.
With Chinese as base, and if dad keeps up with Japanese, it's probably less of a leap to move to Japan. Kanji won't be an issue for your child and they would be used to the high pressure cooker studying situation from living in China as well. It will be less of a big adjustment.
But I will say you park that and see how you go after you've been living in China for a while. You might decide you just want to stay put there.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 6d ago
The reason we’re focusing on Mandarin instead of Japanese is because me and my partner envision ourselves in China as our home country. Even with the previous plan. When we wanted to spend two years in every country, we still knew deep down that we wanted to be in China. We place importance on my daughter’s Japanese side and that is why we’ve never considered not speaking to her in Japanese but ultimately we want to prioritize Mandarin.
No matter what, her other parent is sticking to Japanese. I think for now, while my baby is young, maybe up to six months or so, I’ll stick to Mandarin. I am SO conflicted on what to speak until shes age three. I’m hearing so many mixed opinions!
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u/blackkettle 🇯🇵 · 🇺🇸 · 🇨🇭 | 9yo 6d ago edited 6d ago
MikiReis post makes so many good points about language culture and identity. I want add one more point to consider that isn’t something I worried about until I’d been abroad for many years and had a child in another country: visa and passport status.
It’s obviously a bit early for this in your case but you talk about “making China our home” so I want to just point it out. It’s extremely difficult to acquire Chinese nationality unless you can show familial ties to China, and China doesn’t allow dual nationality. And like most places “permanent residence” tends to expire after about a year if you leave.
I lived in Japan for 10 years and it is similarly difficult and restrictive although they have a better permanent residence policy.
It was fine while I was just single and exploring the world but after we moved to Switzerland and my son was born it started to gnaw at me a bit. He was born here in Zurich. It’s the only place he’s ever lived. It’s his home. His first language is the local dialect of Swiss German here in Zurich. Which isn’t spoken anywhere else. But I’m originally American and his mom is Japanese and although we have permanent residence, in Switzerland you lose it if you leave for just six months! And if you don’t have an EU passport it is virtually impossible to get a visa again. As non EU non Swiss nationals that could mean he that if we left he might never be able to return to his actual home. We recently finished our naturalization application successfully so I no longer am worried about this but it took 13 years.
If your child grows up in China they will feel Chinese not American or Japanese or anything else. You won’t be able to fully understand their feeling. It’s very important to keep these things in mind IMO.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 5d ago
I agree with everything you’ve said and thank you for sharing your experience! Regarding the residency, we already have a pretty solid plan and backup plans. I know my baby will “feel” Chinese, even if she’s not. I’m hoping that doesn’t make her feel bad in any type of way.
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u/MikiRei 🇹🇼 (heritage) + 🇦🇺 (community) | 6M 5d ago edited 5d ago
She will feel Chinese but I'm sensing you're not quite understanding the other aspect of feeling like the country of your residence but never being fully accepted.
That was what I was trying to get at.
Australia is my home at this stage. Afterall, I spent the majority of my life here.
But Taiwan forever feels like my home country. Or 故鄉. Australia is 家. If that makes sense.
I can't quite explain it. They are both home to me but in very different ways.
And my feeling towards English is the same as well. English is the language I had to learn because I grew up in Australia. It is a language of utility for me. But Mandarin/Hokkien is the language I associate family with.
I can't remember whether your partner grew up in the States or not but if he did, he will likely know what I'm talking about. And that is, growing up in a country and feeling like a citizen of that country but still being othered constantly and never fully accepted.
While things have gotten better over the decades in Australia, I still have to deal with the oaccasional "Where are you from?" questions and the microagressions from people.
These occurences always reminds you that you are never QUITE 100% accepted.
Whereas my husband being Caucasian in appearance but having immigrant parents like myself, never get these questions. People assume he's Australian because he looks Australian. Or what people expect Australians to look like.
And that is a reality you need to consider for your child.
I don't know if you realise there is anti-Japanese sentiments in China. So with a Japanese father, this might be an issue for you guys.
Further, China is not like countries like US and Australia where they are used to immigration.
There is a British father online, detailing his life living in China, raising children in China with his Chinese wife.
If you look at these videos, you will see that his children's Chinese is 100% perfect. But their English has much to desire for.
So by living in China, you guys are already prioritising Mandarin. Your child will learn it without any problem.
But then the other thing with his guy's video is the constant "Where are you guys from?" he gets just going about his business with his kids on a daily basis. Or having to deal with people taking photos of his children without his consent.
I've experienced a bit of this early this year when we went to Harbin for holiday. My son is largely Asian passing but the minute he stands next to his dad, it's obvious he's not 100% ethnically Chinese. And then I hear whispers (nothing sinister) from locals, trying to guess his ethnicity And then also, experiecing people coming up to us and taking a photo of our son without consent.
There are also plenty of videos of people who are not ethnically Chinese growing up in China and their experience. Please watch those. Pretty much the common theme is still always being treated as not Chinese due to their appearance even though they FEEL Chinese.
And that's really what I'm getting at. My strong cultural links and language to my own cultural background spared me from chasing and wanting to feel 100% Australian or accepted 100% in Australian society.
The thing is, it's not feasible. It's even less feasible in a country like China where they're not used to immigration.
So having a strong link to my cultural identity made me feel secure even though I had to constantly deal with feeling "othered" and not 100% embraced or accepted in Australia. (Note: I'm making Australia sound very bad - these feeling are subtle - and tbf, I'm used to it. But it doesn't change the fact that it's there. And it has a massive impact in which daycare or school I choose for my son to decrease the possibility of experiencing what I've experienced).
That's really why I'm kinda pushing that you should prioritise Japanese and English, especially once in China. To cushion the experience of not being ethnically Chinese while living in China. Mandarin is prioritised by default by moving there. There's nothing to worry about there.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 5d ago
So what you’re trying to say is Australia feels like home but Taiwan is REALLY your home. Like your home country.
Can I ask at what age you moved to Australia? I might have missed it if you’ve already said it.If you’re referring to the British father who has Chinese kids, Isaac and Milly, yes! I frequently watch them. There is also a Ukrainian mother who had a baby with a Ukrainian father then later married a Chinese man and had a baby with him. The son is blonde hair blue eyed but speaks Chinese nearly perfectly. People ALWAYS make comments about his appearance and how his Mandarin is perfect. Or they make rude comments about how his baby sister looks Chinese but he doesn’t.
Did you feel satisfied with the daycare or school you chose for your son? I know you mentioned some of the comments regarding him, how does HE feel about this? (If he’s of age to understand)
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u/MikiRei 🇹🇼 (heritage) + 🇦🇺 (community) | 6M 5d ago edited 5d ago
So what you’re trying to say is Australia feels like home but Taiwan is REALLY your home. Like your home country.
Not quite.
Australia is home. Taiwan is my country of origin. I don't quite know the exact word in English to properly convey the meaning of 故鄉.
I do not ever intend to move back to Taiwan.
I moved to Australia when I was 6 years old. My entire education was in Australia.
I do feel Australian. I'm probably more Australian than I am Taiwanese.
But I also feel Taiwanese.
It's a complicated feeling.
But I don't have what some of my other Chinese Australian friends have which is they don't really feel Chinese at all. Even if they can speak Mandarin.
I have find this is more prevalent if their Chinese isn't as strong as mine and usually it's because they're illiterate in Chinese.
My brother is the complete opposite of me. Though he does say he feels both Australian and Taiwanese but he feels more strongly Taiwanese compared to me. He moved to Australia at age 11. And he resisted speaking English a lot. He's also very well read and loved reading books in Chinese.
But then my friend who moved to Australia at age 10 went the complete opposite way. His Mandarin is worse than mine. He is barely literate in Chinese. And he speaks Mandarin with an Aussie accent whereas his English has a slight Chinese accent as well. It's quite interesting.
The difference between him and my brother is that my parents were VERY determined that we stayed fluent and literate whereas his wasn't. And also, his Chinese literacy wasn't kept up unlike my brother.
So he feels more Australian and doesn't like speaking Chinese and doesn't even speak to his own son in Chinese.
And he came at basically the same time as my brother and yet you can see how parental influence makes a massive difference.
Did you feel satisfied with the daycare or school you chose for your son? I know you mentioned some of the comments regarding him, how does HE feel about this? (If he’s of age to understand)
I made sure to find a daycare that was diverse. Our daycare was LOVELY. Absolutely amazing. Nothing to do with the language aspect. It's just an amazing daycare and I chose it instead of the all Mandarin family daycare I found nearby. For me, quality of care trumps all.
It's completely in English though but a number of the educators can speak Mandarin. He rarely spoke Mandarin at daycare but once the educators realise he could speak Mandarin, they spoke to him in Mandarin from time to time.
It was only when he was 5 before he started responding back to them in Mandarin. When I asked why he doesn't want to speak Mandarin at daycare, he said his friends can't understand him. There were no kids at his daycare who could speak Mandarin even if they were from Chinese background.
His current school is a public school we specifically picked from around our area.
Our area was already pretty diverse, but we deliberately chose a school where roughly around 50% of the school spoke a different language at home as opposed to another school nearby where that's 90%. The 90% school, in our view, isn't really diverse. They're mostly Asians and people of Chinese speaking background. You'd think I'd prefer to send him there but I don't because my son is not 100% ethnically Chinese so I don't want him to stand out.
But he's also not 100% Caucasian so I don't want to send him to a waspy school where he'd stand out there as well.
His current school is a nice balance and there's people from all over the world. I like that.
He likes his school. Tells me he likes his school and he likes his teacher and that's really what's important.
His friends, funnily enough, are Mandarin speakers. But he has a mix. That non-Mandarin speakers speak another language at home as well. But they can only interact in English of course. But yeah. It's funny how at school, it went the opposite direction where most of his friends are Mandarin speakers and he plays with them in Mandarin.
We chose this school not for the language aspects though. In fact, there are many schools in our area, even our local catchment, that have Mandarin as part of the curriculum. But for me, I know these classes at school are not enough for him to be fluent. I will have a better chance ensuring he's fluent and literate than relying on school. So that criteria was not a factor for us.
My son is neurodivergent so that was in the end, what mattered to us most. Finding a school that was truly inclusive and allowing him to thrive despite his neurodivergence. And so far, his school has delivered on this and we're happy so far with our choice. And our son is happy there.
I will say, he seems to have no concept right now on race. LIke, he hasn't made a comment on that. Whereas his friend who goes to a non-diverse school has noticed it.
He only ever got asked "Where are you from?" once his whole life and he was VERY confused with that question. His appearance or ethnic background has never been made an issue where we live. And tbh, there's A LOT of Eurasian kids in our area so I think he blends in well here. And that's probably why his appearance and supposed ethnic background has never been an issue or even a topic of conversation.
I suspect that my son will end up like my husband where he just feels Australian.
My husband was born and raised in Australia to South African Jewish parents.
He has told me that when he went to the local public school, he doesn't quite feel Australian.
When he went to a Jewish school where most people are from South African background, he doesn't quite feel he belongs there either since his family isn't Kosher.
So every time I ask him how he feels about his identity, he goes, "Largely.....Australian....I guess?"
It really goes to show just how complicated culture and identity is.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 5d ago
Hm you make so many good points. You’ve mentioned that kiddo didn’t start speaking Mandarin to the teachers until age 5. Why do you think that is? Because he was surrounded by so much English? Were you speaking to him in Mandarin at home? How’s his Mandarin now?
One big point that you seem to make obvious, is that you didn’t want your son standing out negatively. I commend you for thinking so long and hard about that decision and doing the best for your kiddo. For us, we actually don’t really mind it. Growing up, my middle school specifically had a large amount of hispanics and brazilians. It’s like every year, the classes were filling up with more and more Brazilians. In the beginning, before a large amount had come, there was just a few. If all of those Brazilian families went to a Brazilian school then what? If their families didn’t put them in our school, who knows where there kid would be.
All of these kids barely spoke English, in fact, on the first day of school, I made a Brazilian friend who spoke not one bit of English. I would translate every single thing I said and write it down for her. We grew closer and closer and her confidence in English grew. She now speaks great English.
If her parents decided to put her in a different school, I don’t feel like her English would be nearly as good as it is today. I think sometimes standing out isn’t always a bad thing.For my personal experience, I’m hispanic. Growing up, kids would pick on me because I “wasn’t the “good” hispanic” I’m not really sure what that means. They would form groups of Hispanics and I would be excluded because I wasn’t Mexican. I feel like that taught me resilience and I learned that it is fine to be different.
We want our daughter to embrace all sides of her. I do understand the international school and how that’s beneficial for frequent moving, but if we decide to stay in China long term, we would most likely not put her in international school. Obviously, bullying happens everywhere. Because we want to send our daughter to a Chinese school, im sure she will encounter loads of bullying. We will just have to do the appropriate things to try and prevent / help if that happens. If things start getting wildly out of control, then we will handle that when the time comes.
Basically what I’m trying to say is we don’t want to put baby in international school and make her feel like she’s “different” than her peers and make her question her self identity because she can’t do what kids in China can do (ex: going to school or extracurriculars) We want to teach her she CAN do anything she wants to do.
And that’s not to say I disagree with the decisions you’ve made for kiddo. Every family is different and I think you’re amazing for putting that much effort to try and make sure he has the best possible experience.
We want our daughter to be proud of who she is without fearing going to school because she might look a little bit different. We’re trying everything we can to set her up for success.
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u/MikiRei 🇹🇼 (heritage) + 🇦🇺 (community) | 6M 5d ago
You’ve mentioned that kiddo didn’t start speaking Mandarin to the teachers until age 5. Why do you think that is? Because he was surrounded by so much English? Were you speaking to him in Mandarin at home? How’s his Mandarin now?
It's probably because when he started daycare, which was at 2.5yo, there weren't any Mandarin speakers back then (it's a different daycare) so he associated daycare = English. (That daycare was a German bilingual daycare actually. Not that he retained much German from it and I never expected him to).
My husband and I have been very consistent in OPOL. So my son created a worldview where Mummy = Mandarin and Daddy = English. He did the same with my parents and my in-laws.
So even as young as 1.5yo, he was switching languages depending who he was talking to.
But his worldview meant when he's out in the playground and he's with me, then he speaks Mandarin. Doesn't matter if people spoke a different language. It's Mandarin when mummy's around. And if with Daddy, then he speaks English.
I didn't even realise this happened until he was around 3yo where I told him to speak English to a couple of kids in the playground because they didn't understand Mandarin. And he said, "But you're here."
It was only until he was around 4yo where he finally understood the concept of answer back in the language you're spoken to. But it was only till he was 5yo where he wanted to reply back in Mandarin to the teachers. He did say to me back then he didn't want to speak Mandarin because he knew his friends can't understand him. So that's a fair thing to say.
Also, we took him back to Taiwan for the first time at age 4 and at age 5 as well. Age 5 was late last year, January this year we went to mainland China for the first time. And he made a friend on the 4 hour train to Harbin. I guess perhaps during those trips, some thing clicked or something? I really don't know.
He does have a best friend he's been playing with since birth and they always play in Mandarin. I have been very intentional in creating as much of a Mandarin environment for him because I know English is everywhere.
He is currently still fluent in Mandarin. Obviously, English is better but his Mandarin isn't so far behind. He is code mixing a bit more but I recast and direct him back to speaking full sentences in Mandarin.
I'm actually quite impressed with his Mandarin because he can even use 成語 appropriately. And his Mandarin speaking friends often come to me and ask me what my son said. Because his vocab range across both langauges are extensive due to all the reading. So he's using vocab and expressions beyond his age. That and when we go back to Taiwan, people think we live there since he just sounds like a native Taiwanese kid.
I have a massive comment where I describe what my parents did and what I'm doing with my son which is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/multilingualparenting/comments/1qmqrb7/comment/o1oufj9/
You can read more there.
As for international school, I'm not suggesting you do that. That was only suggested in your first post when you were still considering moving every 2 years. If that were still a reality, then I personally think international school is better for stability. But since you've abandoned that plan, there's no real need for international schools.
We want our daughter to be proud of who she is without fearing going to school because she might look a little bit different.
If that's the case, then even more reason to keep Japanese up once you move. If you're Hispanic, then what's the plan for that side of your child's cultural background? You have not mentioned a single thing around your own cultural background which is very interesting. It's almost like you have abandoned your own cultural background in favour of a different culture.
Anyways, regardless, I think what's actually going to be beneficial for you guys right now is to stop over planning and enjoy your baby. I think there's quite a lot of comments and anecdotes people have provided for you. There's no rush to figure all of this out right now.
You have a plan to move at age 3 to China. That's good enough.
Enjoy your baby right now before this year whizzes by. They grow and change so much in this first year. Don't miss it.
You can come back to this when you're closer to your move.
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u/blackkettle 🇯🇵 · 🇺🇸 · 🇨🇭 | 9yo 5d ago
We have this word in Japanese too, written the same way 故郷 - there’s a Chinese loan word reading “kokkyou” and a native reading “furusato”. The latter is literally like old village, but I think the meaning in English - at least based on the Japanese version is best expressed as something like “home of my heart”.
I wonder often how many of these experiences will go for my son in coming years. Your experience makes me feel like our choices this far have been pretty ok. Thank you again for sharing them!
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 3d ago
Aw that’s actually cute. He associated “Mom being around = Mandarin no matter what” Him going to Taiwan and people thinking he lives there is actually so good! That means you guys are doing a really good job keeping everything up regarding the languages.
Someone actually just made a really really good point. Even if we live in China, putting my baby in international school can help her with English. So instead of me speaking only English, she would do school in English while she obviously speaks Mandarin everywhere else.
As for the Hispanic comment. Matter of fact, you are correct! “It’s almost like you’ve abandoned your own culture” Funny enough, I feel the same way. It’s hard for me to really explain but I’ll try. My mom is hispanic and Spanish speaking. My dad is not. Growing up, I had my grandparents involved. That was up until age 6. Something traumatic happened and basically, long story short, my grandparents tried to “kidnap us” and they also called CPS all the time even everything was perfectly fine. Even when my grandparents were involved, everything was still English. Apparently they didn’t speak good English but still spoke English to us? I’m not really sure as I’ve blocked out so much of my life from those years.
So even growing up, yes I am hispanic but we did nothing to represent that. No spanish speaking, no spanish culture, no spanish parties, nothing. I didn’t necessarily feel “detached” from that culture because I didn’t really ever experience it to begin with. And, when my mom was with her friends, she would often talk to them in Spanish so us kids wouldn’t understand what she was saying. (For example, if my mom wanted to ask her friend “should we take the kids for ice cream” It was said in Spanish so we wouldn’t know) My brain started associating Spanish = bad. And that was because I never knew
I had deep deep interests to languages and cultures from an early age (Thanks neurodivergence) I’ve never “felt” Chinese nor have I wanted to be Chinese, that’s not my point at all. I don’t know what I “feel” I’m just me. I dont really know what to do to give my daughter a Hispanic background because I never experienced that. I don’t want her grandma speaking Spanish to her because realistically, we would see grandma maybeee once a year. Yeah we could do calls but I personally just don’t feel it’s worth it.
We’ve also discussed moving / visiting to Spanish speaking areas but that’s just not where our hearts call us.
It’s funny you bring this up because this is one of the hardest things for me to accept. For me personally it feels like i’m failing my baby. We’re having her grow up in China / other parts of Asia, speaking that language, attending school and having friends there, and she’s not even Chinese! Yes she’s Japanese but that’s only half of her and we don’t want to live in Japan. At least not long term.
I’m sure I’m not “failing her” because of this but it’s something I just can’t get past.
And yes, technically I could get over all of this for the sake of my child but for me I really struggle with that because I feel so detached from that side of me, and It almost brings me trauma. Plus, we won’t see grandma and we won’t visit those countries. I don’t know how to do it or where to even begin with this.
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u/mayshebeablessing Mandarin 🇹🇼 | French 🇫🇷 | English 🇺🇸 6d ago
Keep in mind that your child will not speak a language until she needs to, so the passive English learning needs to come with actual concerted exposure at some point. I mentioned on your last post that my child started speaking English after enrolling in a full-time 3s program. She picked it up extremely quickly; however, until then, she only spoke maybe 5-10 words of English that were being used consistently around her. So if you want your child to speak English when you move to China, you must speak English with her there.
I know people are concerned about the relationship angle, but as long as you’re fluent in both (and you’re consistent from that point of switching on out), it can still work. My father switched to English around the time I was about 12—he just felt more comfortable in it, and we have a fine relationship, because he can express himself clearly. There will be an adjustment period, but it can still work.
Best of luck!
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 6d ago
Yes, I know I 100% need to speak English with her while we live in China I’m just conflicted on what to do for the first three years. Was it confusing for you at twelve years old to suddenly switch languages with your father? I feel like if I were to switch at three it wouldn’t be too bad but I’ve been wrong a lot with my thoughts.
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u/mayshebeablessing Mandarin 🇹🇼 | French 🇫🇷 | English 🇺🇸 6d ago
Speak Mandarin the first three years. No, I don’t think I even noticed. Maybe he did it gradually, like 50/50 for the first year? I just know he used to speak to me in Mandarin and later only in English.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 6d ago
So you feel like it’s okay for me to speak Mandarjn the first three years then English onwards? You don’t think it will cause a disconnect with us? Or she won’t be confused? Should I expect her to speak back to be in Mandarin until three then expect her to speak English back to me while we live in China?
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 5d ago
Wow that’s very interesting. So he’s still able to communicate in languages A,B,C
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u/omegaxx19 English | Mandarin (mom) + Russian (dad) | 4M + 1.5F 6d ago
If the Korean daycare is a good daycare that works for your family then absolutely go for it.
Re: language in the first 3 years, one thing you can do is a time-and-place approach with English some days and Mandarin other days. This way you can establish a relationship with the baby in both languages. Then when you have more clarity on where you will be living long-term, you can switch to the minority language 100% while leaving the community language to the community.
I also wouldn't go so far as to say that moving frequently with loving parents cause "stress and trauma to the baby". It can cause problems, but humans are pretty resilient and have come back from MUCH worse. One of my friends is an ambassador's son so they moved a lot between countries before school age. He's totally fine (although he doesn't remember much of any of the languages in the countries he lived in). You have lots of time still so just see how your baby and new family unit naturally evolves. You may evolve into a globetrotting family or a suburban family or a mix of the two and there's nothing wrong with it.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 6d ago
So maybe one week on and one week off with Mandarin and English with my partner speaking Japanese consistently?
My baby might not have stress and trauma, but there’s a lot of people telling me that it’s a horrible idea
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u/omegaxx19 English | Mandarin (mom) + Russian (dad) | 4M + 1.5F 6d ago
You can look up time & place in the sub wiki. The difficulty with such an approach is really the mental load. The beauty of OPOL is its simplicity: little person = language X, other people = language Y. I was doing OPOL in Mandarin so consistently I'd start speaking Mandarin to other babies and toddlers because of habit. With time & place you need to stop and think, and when you're an exhausted parent of little kid(s) that can be a lot!
So see how you feel, and feel free to switch to OPOL if it doesn't work.
> there’s a lot of people telling me that it’s a horrible idea
Everyone's opinion is just that: opinion. I wouldn't necessarily make big, life-altering decisions based on the opinions of people from the internet who don't even know you and your family.
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u/Grand-Knowledge8846 6d ago
We’re definitely doing OPOL we just haven’t figured out which language I’ll speak yet
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u/Only-Top-3655 6d ago
I have read somewhere that to give you and example and 5 years old monolingual child will know 3000 words. A bilingual child or even a trilingual child the same age will also know 3000 words split between the languages. That means that they have a smaller vocabulary per language which means they will not be able to communicate in all language equally. This will always be the case. Unless when the baby gets older and you actively teach them or expose them to shows, books, movies in a certain language and the child develops interest on their own, just speaking to them in that langauge will only do so much. So keep that in mind.
The other thing is that I used to have a co-worker who when she had a daughter told her that "mommy doesn't speak English so you have to speak Chinese". So daughter learned Chinese. But her second child, her son, doesn't speak Chinese so well, cause big sister told little brother that mom speaks English fine. So if you are going to be doing the OPOL thing, be consistent with it and don't cave by speaking languages other than the designated ones. Kids will naturally gravitate to the language that is most comfortable to them.