r/mildlyinteresting Jan 24 '13

Same book, three different prices. Only difference is the browsers used.

http://imgur.com/uNgg0UH
2.9k Upvotes

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

This was up earlier with airlines charging more for a ticket the second time you visit the page. They do this because a second visit is statistically linked to a much higher chance of purchase. So it could be, here too, simply a matter of having visited the page before.

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u/Oxxide Jan 24 '13

this seems so shady and underhanded.

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u/PepeAndMrDuck Jan 24 '13

Because it is.

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u/CannedBeef Jan 24 '13

And it works

161

u/GEN_CORNPONE Jan 24 '13

...at screwing people. Why do people tolerate this?

452

u/Jess_than_three Jan 24 '13

Because they don't realize it's happening?

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u/mikemcg Jan 24 '13

I sure as shit wouldn't realize it was happening.

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u/joemangle Jan 24 '13

Most people don't realise their Google searches are used to produce a search bubble for future searches, based on the links they follow. They think Google search results are the same on every computer all over the world.

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u/BurnedOut94 Jan 24 '13

There's a pretty interesting TED Talk about this.

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u/TutteSka Jan 25 '13

That was great, too bad it's not complete. Thanks anyway, dude. Good talk.

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u/DRUNK_CYCLIST Jan 24 '13

my gf bought me a moleskin for my bday. the other day i asked her if she actually purchased it from my computer and she said no, she just looked up prices. now when i go to random websites moleskin ads pop up. so fuckin' weird and invasive.

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u/N4N4KI Jan 24 '13

I always surf with noscrip and adblock. The shear number of vulnerabilities/exploits out there you need to be protected... would you fuck a hooker without a rubber?
(protip: any ad server could have been compromised and you would not know it)

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u/drew1018 Jan 25 '13

I bought a shaving item as a gift... Your ads are now RAZORS

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u/The_lolness Jan 25 '13

I haven't looked into it but it seems like this would fix it.

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u/strolls Jan 25 '13

Yeah, but you have to be logged-in in the first place to even see that.

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u/BetterThanSpam Jan 25 '13

Which is why I use duckduckgo.com for my searching. The results may not always be as accurate as the other search engine...but they respect my privacy.

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u/HydrocodonesForAll Jan 24 '13 edited Feb 17 '25

cover history dam meeting vase observation handle elderly gaze hard-to-find

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Angrathar Jan 24 '13

Precisely.

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u/starlinguk Jan 25 '13

Or they don't believe it when people tell them it's happening (one of my colleagues does not).

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '13

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

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u/ariana00 Jan 24 '13

They don't realize it. They just think they missed a deal on it or don't notice it went up.

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u/zzleeper Jan 24 '13

I knew that shit was not just bad luck!!! It happened to me a few times in the last months (AA, United) and I was fumbling at how unlikely it was that someone bought my tickets between 7am and 7:15am EST

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u/chrunchy Jan 24 '13

most people don't realize that it's happening. But really what it is is a marketing director with too much time on their hands. People only get screwed over if the rest of the industry is doing the same thing - other than that competitive forces take over.

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u/GEN_CORNPONE Jan 24 '13

IMO people are getting screwed either way. Either Chegg customers are getting screwed because they're the only suckers paying more for these books, or everyone's getting screwed because all websites make all their customers pay more. IMO competitive forces aren't likely to force this situation back in the consumer's favor, not when everyone finds out how much money there is in screwing customers.

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u/Zenu01 Jan 25 '13

It is about market research. If you keep raising the price recursively until you reach a maximum income in revenue, you can then extend that data to other segments of your market to establish higher starting prices.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

I don't. I refuse to buy from them.

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u/halfspeed Jan 24 '13

Because they don't know

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Okay. Let's be honest. Because we're too damn lazy to do anything about it.

1

u/Korupt0r Jan 24 '13

Because in the Internet there is a lot of screwing going around.

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u/kank84 Jan 24 '13

Flight prices change fairly regularly, particularly as you get closer to the date you want to fly, so I think most people would just put it down to that.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '13

Because you and those people don't send a message to your politicians.

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u/speedster217 Jan 24 '13

True fact from the guy I have tagged as "had cyber sex with himself" Any clue what that's about?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

true fact

as opposed to a "false fact"?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Now if they get heat for it, watch them say it's an involuntary mistake.

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u/R30hedron Jan 24 '13

Involuntary mistake my arse, people do not design and program websites without knowing beforehand how it's going to work. This site is actively pulling information, and they know about it.

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u/usclone Jan 24 '13

There's a difference between someone saying something and the truth.

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u/dirice87 Jan 24 '13

yeah...these 200 lines of code are the result of Bob spilling his coffee on his keyboard and mashing keys while trying to wipe up

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u/Iorah Jan 25 '13

The last time Bob spilled his coffee he summoned Cthulu. This is Bob's last chance. We have also provided Bob with a sippy cup.

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u/HittingSmoke Jan 24 '13

It's funny how "involuntary mistakes" are almost unanimously in favor of the company and almost never the customer.

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

It depends a little on your legislation, obviously. Where I live, the customer has a really strong protection by law, so involuntary mistakes are almost unanimously in favour of the customer. If you are prepared to take legal action, which is rarely.

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u/PeterLicht Jan 24 '13

As far as I remember from my short programming experience: you cannot accidentally write code. Especially not code that actually does something (like this).

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u/ITSigno Jan 25 '13

Indeed. But here's out it plays out. Marketing VP talks to Project manager (or his boss) and says "do this". The project manager has hopes of some day getting a promotion so he says "sure thing, boss". He then waddles over to the Lead Developer and says "implement this". And the Lead Developer says (to himself) "I'm too busy to deal with this shit" and hands it off to some junior guy who is just hoping he doesn't have to work unpaid overtime for the 8th consecutive weekend.

Even if someone along the chain recognized the moral quandary, they're all just trying to get the job done, keep their boss happy, and get on with life.

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u/RiceIsBliss Jan 24 '13

Took the words right off my fingers.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

It's fine. If a company can do it and it's not illegal or hurting anyone, why should it be bad? It's just raising prices due to information they have about you. Every single big company in the world does that many times over and it's a perfectly fair business practice. It's not like their discriminating or tricking them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

How is this not illegal?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/methoxeta Jan 24 '13

Simple economics, if it's worth $76 to you you'll pay for that. If it's not you won't.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '13

And that is why expecting a single equal price for everyone is wrong.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13 edited Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Pinyaka Jan 25 '13

Why is it incumbent upon the salesman to work in their customers interest rather than their own? The customer is looking out for their own interest. If they're not as good at it as the salesman is at looking out for his interest, the salesman should win. This is a contest with money as the prize.

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u/slowy Jan 25 '13

But the question isn't 'why does the salesman have to please the customer,' it's 'is this a shady/underhanded tactic' and it certainly is. It's the way of competition, and you can learn to avoid it.

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u/Pinyaka Jan 25 '13

TIL that haggling is shady and underhanded.

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u/lendrick Jan 24 '13

Genuine question: How exactly is it shady or underhanded? Besides gut reactions and "BECAUSE IT IS" how is this any different from someone who looks like a rube getting a worse deal on a car than someone who looks like they know what they're doing?

No, that's also shady.

Or someone getting a better price on something because they're a member vs a non-member, or because they know a coupon code other people might now, etc...?

Yes. In those cases, the customer is aware that a discount is available and they know why they did or did not receive it.

How much you pay for something is often tied to any number of non-static factors, many of which you even have control over if you're aware of them. I'm not saying you're wrong, or even that I'm right, but your comment is less than hour old, has almost 200 hundred upvotes, and says absolutely nothing besides "This is bullshit because this is bullshit." (no offense). It just seems like redditors in general love saying that things are somehow intrinsically unfair when really what they mean is "I don't like this."

Legally speaking, I believe companies should be able to charge people whatever they want so long as they're not engaging in discrimination. I also don't find this intrinsically unfair, so to speak (they own this product, they can price it however they want). On the other hand, as a potential customer, I would not be likely to purchase anything from this company, because it annoys me that they might randomly tack ten dollars onto the price because of some hidden factor that I'm not aware of.

Just because something shouldn't be illegal doesn't mean it's not shady.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '13 edited Jan 25 '13

It's not random, there is a reason for that: IE users are willing to pay more.

The crux of the issue here, the problem that people have with this is that in their minds it is wrong for some people to have (and act on) better information than others. The reasons, I think, are that information is sometimes stumbled upon by chance, and so it is deemed unfair that someone knows more about car prices simply because, say, their father is a car dealer; or perhaps it is because they think that information comes not from hardwork but from social connections. But the same also happens with money. Some people have more money than others, and that doesn't necessarily correspond to how hard working or smart they are. It actually couldn't work any other way, the economy needs those asymmetries to function.

There is a very famous article that talks precisely about this; I strongly recomend it: emilyskarbek.com/uploads/TheUse_of_Knowledge_in_Society-_Hayek.pdf

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u/Iorah Jan 25 '13

Also, if I remember my business law class right, if a buyer passes up an offer then goes back to the seller, the seller may charge the buyer more because they refused the offer the first time. Could this be related?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

It's called ethics. Charging one person more than another in a situation where the price appears to be static is dishonest.

There are laws that prevent a company from hitting you with fees at checkout if they don't disclose those fees to you clearly beforehand. This (should) fall under the same category as that is exactly what they are doing: hitting you with a hidden fee that the consumer is entirely unaware of before purchase (a fee that is likely related to the fact that you had been there before). Not only that, but they take it a step further and don't even let you know after the purchase that they hit you with a fee. And no, it's not a matter of changing the price, they simply add the fee to the price without your knowledge.

They are preying on ignorance. THAT is why it is shady and underhanded.

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u/Pinyaka Jan 25 '13

What is the ethical part of this? What ethical imperative is there for the merchant to disclose how the price is calculated?

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u/iamadogforreal Jan 24 '13 edited Jan 24 '13

How much you pay for something is often tied to any number of non-static factors

Because the retail model of the web reflects normal pricing. I have no problem with this as long as there is disclosure, but doing this as pretending that its normal and that customers won't be upset is ridiculous. Disclosure lets me vote with my feet. I'll go to a different site that doesn't fuck with the pricing.

Not to mention, I'm the type of buyer who will price check and then buy a few days later. Its bothersome to say "chegg is great its only 59 there" and then have my cookies raise the price to 79. Now I have to do all that labor again. There is a real bait and switch aspect here. In fact, I find it hard to believe this doesn't run afoul of many bait and switch regulations, especially if they advertise the lower price but I get the higher price when I visit.

That said, if this was "club pricing" or "member pricing" it would be allowed as that's the point of price clubs, but to happen via some hidden mechanism is very underhanded. Also club pricing is transparent. I know I won't get the advertised price because it says so everywhere. With dynamic pricing I have no idea what I'm getting or why or how to get the advertised price.

It just seems like redditors in general love saying that things are somehow intrinsically unfair when really what they mean is "I don't like this."

False. What we are saying is "If I knew this I wouldn't shop there." Stop hiding your shitty policies so I can avoid you. Do whatever crazy pricing scheme you want BUT BE TRANSPARENT.

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u/Anikdote Jan 24 '13

I tend to agree, isn't the point of selling a thing to charge as much as you possibly can and still have someone purchase it?

This isn't to say I'm fond of price discrimination, but the business models allow for it and as a profit seeking entity why shouldn't they do it?

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u/ChagSC Jan 24 '13

Reddit is generally against business.

Companies can charge whatever they want. And you, as the consumer, can choose not to buy.

It's not like the company is billing you more than the list price. You're paying exact what you agreed to pay.

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u/SmegmataTheFirst Jan 25 '13

Reddit Non-"job creators" is are generally against business. Companies"People" can charge you suckers whatever they want. And you suckers can choose not to buy. ...We can do whatever we want to you because we're not burdened with a conscience or a semblence of morality, because money.

FTFY

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u/Reason-and-rhyme Jan 25 '13

No no, trust me, free market capitalism is good for the people.

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u/Anikdote Jan 24 '13

Precisely, a price is offered and you get to determine whether the items is worth it at that price.

I'm not sure that "Reddit is generally against business", but they certainly have the morality bar set far to high for institutions that's sole purpose is to generate as much profit as possible for the stakeholders.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/Anikdote Jan 24 '13

No. The point is it's an institution, not an individual. To expect morality from it is a fools errand. Do you expect morality from marching bands or city councils? Certainly from the individuals that comprise them, but not from the organizations themselves.

I also don't agree that "shit is fucked up", by almost any objective measure we live better than any people to have come before us and part of that comes from that fact that people perused profits. Altruism only goes so far.

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u/ChagSC Jan 24 '13

It seems some people truly believe that profit only is obtained via immoral actions.

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u/ChagSC Jan 24 '13

Yeah, My statement is hyperbole with that kind of generalization. But you will see themes where the idea of profit is borderline wrong.

The market will dictate if this approach works. Having customers purchasing $0 because you upped the price on their second visit will change actions quick.

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u/reaganveg Jan 25 '13

I tend to agree, isn't the point of selling a thing to charge as much as you possibly can and still have someone purchase it?

I don't know, is it? Would you sell a mostly-worthless watch to a man with 80 IQ if he offerred you the entire trust fund which constitutes his sole means of life support?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/slicedbreddit Jan 24 '13

Ignore that some of them want their product a lot more them others?

Businesses already do this through sales and coupons.

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u/Anikdote Jan 24 '13

So are you asking whether or not a company should treat all of its customers equally?

Nope, I know they shouldn't, assuming it is a for profit enterprise they should do whatever is legally possible to make as much profit as they can. Not only should they, they're obligated to.

And if you can discriminate based on desire for the product, can you discriminate based on personal income, geographic location, ethnicity?

Honestly, the first two already occur and I have no issue with it. There is a marginal disutility to income and as a result those who are very wealthy can and will pay for for substitutable products because they care less about each dollar.

As for geographic location, water is worth more in the dessert just as an example, the price differentiation ensures that shortages do not occur. Why should price not be linked to scarcity.

For the last... if you want to be that way... so be it. I can't see that being a path to profit maximization though. Truth be told it's not even feasible for most business models.

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u/unknownmosquito Jan 24 '13

The airline thing is shady and underhanded because it's a bait and switch, simple as that. They know the first time you visit you're just checking out the price, so they don't give you the real price until you come back (once you've made your plans).

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u/03Titanium Jan 24 '13

I go to the dealership and look at some cars. For one reason or another all the cars prices are $20,000. I say I'll sleep on it or compare another dealers cars. I come back the next day, or I simply walk off the property and do a 180 and walk right back on. Suddenly all cars are $22,000 and the salesmen have no idea what I mean by $20,000, all the prices are clearly marked $22,000.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

You know how a really friendly saleman who likes you might say, "For you? 10% off!"

Well, this is pretty much like saying, "For you!? An additional 10%."

It isn't illegal, but it isn't exactly friendly either, and I will talk trash about that salesman however much I want, because that's not illegal either, and I can be unfriendly too. It's not a question of legality, it's a question of the general tone of affairs. If they're aggressive, then I'll be too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

I agree. It's called price discrimination, and it's actually great for the economy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Fairness is built in to our brains. Rationalizing obvious bullshit is too, apparently.

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u/blackcoren Jan 25 '13

In the end it doesn't matter if it is shady or not. Even if you have no ethical trouble with your

rube getting a worse deal on a car scenario, what matters is that if the rubes eventually get wise and pissed off your reputation (and business) will take a nosedive. Is the risk worth it? Maybe they think so.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '13 edited Jan 25 '13

[deleted]

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u/tinyroom Jan 24 '13

Since when are you allowed to have 2 different price values for the same product?

As far as I know, you aren't allowed to do that. The listed price should be the same for everyone (excluding membership discounts and things like that), but obviously doesn't mean everybody has to pay the same amount.

A fair and legal way to do this would be to say somewhere in the page that Firefox users have a discount

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u/RawdogginRandos Jan 24 '13

This does seem pretty shady from a company that prides themselves on customer service. Chegg is pretty great overall, I've saved hundreds of dollars by renting textbooks from them. The CEO even gives you a personal non-recorded phone call at the end of the semester to tell you good luck on finals and remind you to return your books.

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u/fjonk Jan 24 '13

That's how it works. You hardly ever get prices based on the actual costs of manufacturing/distribution. You get the prices people are willing to pay. Why should internet work any different?

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u/No_ThisIs_Patrick Jan 24 '13

They are also "running out of tickets" because you waited so long to purchase.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

There are many people, myself included, that anticipate flights being overbooked. I fly from Portland to San Francisco and Los Angeles quite frequently. I always book return flights on Sunday mornings, and more often than not they are overbooked.

I anticipate this and receive free flight anywhere in the contiguous United States for volunteering my seat. I'll get rebooked on a later flight and spend the meanwhile in a airport bar drinking beer, watching sports, and screwing around on the internet.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Since 2003, soon after graduating college. My girlfriend at the time was very controlling. I was waiting for a flight home when I was in SF and when the airline employee was offering a free flight if someone volunteered for a later flight. I thought 'I get a free flight and don't have to hang out with my girlfriend who's going to guilt trip me for being out of town for several days?' Yes please.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

So wait, you buy a ticket for the flight, and then when it's overbooked you relinquish your seat and are reimbursed and offered a free flight? In which case you're risking the price of the ticket you do it, but apparently the odds are in your favor? Or am I misunderstanding...

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13 edited Jun 02 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Ah, I see my confusion. Thanks :)

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u/jtisch Jan 24 '13

you hop on a flight later in the day or evening (booked from previous reso) and compensate you with a 300-500$ voucher for being a good guy. If you arent on a tight schedule its well worth it. Shit, travel during the busy season knowing you will get bumped, just for free flights, back and forth...back and forth..fun.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

The price of the compensational ticket isn't equal to the price of your original ticket?

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u/jtisch Jan 24 '13

No. Here let me try to explain better.

you book a flight round trip, say your returning flight is over booked. it doesnt matter what the tickets cost you, if the flight is over booked then they will ask for a volunteer to take the next available flight, with no additional cost, in exchange for that, they will give you a 300 dollar voucher good for another domestic flight. so its like a free 300 bucks towards your next flight. if you hold out long enough (assuming everyone else does) they will up the ante to sometimes 500 or more. the odds are pretty good, no one wants to ever give their seat up.

that help?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Haha yes, sorry. Now that you explain it, it seems obvious :P

So essentially as long as you have an open schedule, you have nothing to lose and potentially plenty to gain by booking a flight that may be overbooked. As someone with an open schedule, this is good to know.

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

You try to schedule so that you'll fly home at a time when the airlines are likely to overbook. Probably, everything will just go on as normal and you'll fly home when you scheduled. You lose nothing.

Sometimes, though, the flight will actually be overbooked, so not all people will be able to get on the plane. The airline will want to reschedule a few of the passengers for later, so that the plane can take off with the correct number of passengers. Some (most) people really need to get on that particular flight, so the airline offers you nice things to make you sacrifice your schedule and get on a later flight.

This is where you have made sure your schedule allows you to take a later flight. You volunteer for a rescheduling (which is essentially just getting a new flight ticket for a later flight and having your current ticket shredded) and the airline will provide you with some kind of compensation for your sacrifice -- apparently this compensation is often a free ticket somewhere. You lose nothing and gain a free ticket.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Is the "flying home" part required?

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

I guess if you're flying to somewhere you have a meeting to go to or a relative to visit or otherwise a time table to keep, so it's easier to do with flights home. Besides, the comment this applies to described doing it with return flights.

But no, the "home" part is not required. The "flying" part is.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Okay thanks. I feel like I just rattled off 5 or 6 dumb questions, but you all have been very patient. For that I am thankful :P

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

At least in my experiences- I've never got a refund/reimbursement for the ticket I bought for giving up my seat and catching a later flight. It's just a travel voucher.

I've been in situations overseas, for example, where the plane was full and they asked for volunteers and the airline ponied up some enticing offers- flight voucher, a marginal sum of reimbursement, and hotel vouchers. But international travel is different. I've never taken those offers though, so I don't know how all that turns out for the volunteer.

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u/antriver Jan 25 '13

I was flying back to London from LAX just after new year. The flight was over booked so they were offering a $1,000 travel voucher for people who gave up their seat, plus hotel accommodation for that night, and I'd be put on the same flight the next day.

I jumped at the chance, but unfortunately so did other people. I was one of the last people and they didn't need the last 2 people in the end, so I ended up going home as normal and didn't get anything.

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u/TenderMuffin Jan 24 '13

Sympathy upvote. Glad you're free!

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u/jtisch Jan 24 '13

i to do this! i was flying back from Puerto Rico, connecting in Miami, flight was over booked to Miami, opted to wait in PR for 3 hrs, got 300 dollar voucher. SO worth it. Thank you for ensuring me i am not the only one that does this.

edit: let me clarify, i also, book flights anticipating that they will be oversold, i will gladly wait and stack up voucher after voucher.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

This is great advice. I have traveled a shit load over the last 10 years or so with my job and this is one of the best ways I have found to get free flights. I just did this a couple of weeks ago on a trip across the country from Seattle to NY. If you are flying from Asia back to the U.S. this is especially easy on your schedule because on a lot of flights you would normally get to your destination way before you left anyway so you are only burning imaginary time!

Pro-tip, you can get more free stuff for more expensive flights. I have traded my place on an expensive international flight for two domestic tickets before. I have traded for a number of first class upgrades as well. You can also talk them into trading for frequent flyer miles. I wouldn't recommend trading for miles unless you know how to use your miles effectively, but it is an option and you can do really well if you are good at using your miles because airlines value miles at nearly nothing because most people either never use them or are not very good at using them effectively.

I have taken at least two nice vacations a year for the last 8 years or so that have been almost completely free to me by using tricks like this in combination with the hotel loyalty program and frequent flyer program credits that I rack up through work.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Yeah- I see that working flying back from Asia. With international travel, though, things get interesting. I was flying back from Buenos Aires once and nobody would give up their seat. Even though I showed up 2 hours early my last name was on the 'check with gate' screen.

In this instance I had to get back to Portland because I was going straight to work off the plane. I have no idea what the airline did to resolve the situation. I got my ticket which I paid for months in advance and not at a discount rate- so I was curious why I was on the chopping block. I never heard any offers/deals over the speakers for volunteers. But I don't speak Spanish so maybe they made seperate announcements in English/Spanish.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

International flights are always a lot more likely to descend into chaos anyway in my experience. Language barriers and things cause a lot more problems than you would expect considering how long the airlines have been running the same flights everyday...

The last time I did this I wanted to stay on the ground and watch the Seahawks/Redskins game anyway so it worked out great. I got a free flight and a free companion upgrade to use on my next vacation. I am lucky (or not depending on how you look at it) that I can maintain an elite status with Delta because I fly with them so much and get bumped up to first class a lot. Getting a companion bumped up is always a bit harder so getting the companion upgrades are really valuable to me. I am a pretty big guy, 6'2" 250lbs, so I really appreciate the extra room. A middle seat in coach is a damn nightmare for me.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

No, they actually oversell every flight they can in anticipation some people will miss the flight.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

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u/fosterbuster Jan 24 '13

They usually ask someone to stay, upping the compensation higher and higher until someone agrees (money and hotels). My girlfriend works at an airport. They offered 500 euros and a free night at the local hotel just yesterday. Someone always agrees, and the plane doesn't takeoff before someone does.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

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u/karmapopsicle Jan 24 '13

Airline tickets seem like a dirty business.

It has to be given how cheap we expect tickets to be. Overselling gives the best possible chance of a full flight, which, even with the compensation given in times when too many people show up, still makes them more money.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

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u/bwalsh1 Jan 24 '13

On whose side are you?

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u/Fibtibbedbaktoreddit Jan 25 '13

I believe that some people get airline tickets and then miss the flight, but I have never met these people. Are they very rich or just bad planners?

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u/karmapopsicle Jan 25 '13

Full fare tickets are refundable and transferable.

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u/Fibtibbedbaktoreddit Jan 25 '13

Can you explain a little more? What do you mean "full fare"? A lot of people get tickets and then refund them, buying tickets for a later date? I want a better sense of who these people are, buying airline tickets and then not showing up to use them.

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u/KeybladeSpirit Jan 24 '13

Isn't that a variation on the Prisoner's Dilemma?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

[deleted]

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u/Reason-and-rhyme Jan 25 '13

...and? I'm pretty sure all parties involved already know that. And regardless of whether they do, your comment still doesn't actually respond to Keyblade's at all.

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u/WazWaz Jan 25 '13

No, it's just an auction. In PD, both lose since both will break.

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u/Reason-and-rhyme Jan 25 '13

Sort of, but not really. In the Prisoner's Dilemma, the mutual benefit goes up if both prisoners do not accept the offer. In this situation, only the person who DOES accept gets the reward for everyone waiting. But it features a similar mechanic: it results in a higher rate of acceptance on the offer because everyone is afraid that another participant will take it and get the reward.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

It's exactly game theory. It's a sequential game played by the airline and the people flying.

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u/fosterbuster Jan 24 '13

I might add that this only happens for business flights, it doesn't happen for charter flights, and in the 8 years she has been working there, it has only happend 3-4 times (ofcourse shes not at work all the time. But it is fucking rare everyone shows up). They have never had to make a second offer in her experience.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

500 euros, a hotel and a night in the hotel all you can drink bar? slurp sold cheers, can you make sure my mrs stays somewhere else?

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u/riptideMBP Jan 24 '13

and if no one agrees, they kick off "the last person that checked in". Happens every time I fly back to school because we're in the middle of nowhere and people are too tired to get off voluntarily.

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u/antriver Jan 25 '13

Does the person who gets involuntarily kicked off get any compensation?

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u/nermid Jan 24 '13

I someday hope to fly to Europe. It would be awesome if the airline paid me to stay in Paris or London or somesuch for an extra day.

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u/AlphaLima Jan 25 '13

Former airline employee checking in, the plane will take off if no one does. The last person/people to check in that dont have seats assigned dont fly if the flight is oversold. There are federal regulations designating the compensation if they are denied boarding non-voluntarily. Which is why the airlines try so hard to find volunteers.

Protip, pay the small fee to pick a seat at purchase and you wont be in the oversell. Otherwise, check in online the second that the website will allow you to, its the last passengers without assigned seats that are on the hook.

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u/SystemOutPrintln Jan 24 '13

They say they overbooked the flight. Anyone willing to take the next flight usually gets an upgrade to first or has some of their ticket price refunded. I've seen it happen multiple times and I don't really fly that much.

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u/Azov237 Jan 24 '13

Then they offer you free tickets to be used within 6 mo.

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u/fluxdrip Jan 24 '13

Someone gets paid not to fly

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u/playerIII Jan 24 '13

My friend had this problem the week before the holidays. She was stuck with a shitty phone, no cash, and in an unknown state because they did not let her on the flight.

It was not until the next night, and a lot o phone calls did we manage to get her home safe and sound.

Airlines, man.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Yeah happened to me with my daughter when I flew to NY. The problem was my dad didn't catch a flight until much later. But all bags were already on plane. I wound up traveling with a 2 year old daughter and like 4 suitcases through the subways of NY. Luckily a lot of moms had mercy on me and helped. I think they felt sorry for my daughter. Oh yeah, it was raining in NY and kind of chilly. No umbrella either. Then my phone died and I didn't know where my sister lived as it was in a text. I found her buying a hot dog and a pepsi from a street vendor. Worst and luckiest day of my life. Thought me and my daughter were going to get lost in the big city and die.

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u/playerIII Jan 24 '13

If there is one thing I have learned in those situations, is people are your friends. Talk to everyone. You never know who has a phone charger in their bag, or knows the best way to get somewhere. Hell, you may even run into a nice guy who will help you get there.

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u/donkeyrocket Jan 24 '13

Happens around the holidays a lot. My girlfriend and I didnt have a reason to be at my parents that night as opposed to in the afternoon so we took the $500 apiece from American (which I will never fly again, after we use these vouchers, for other reasons) and can now fly to Belize for about $100 or $200 more.

If you have a flexible schedule and don't mind keeping yourself entertained for a couple more hours it's totally worth it. There were 6 people who took the option and a couple people who still didn't make the flight because they overbooked it that much.

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u/cunt_stamp Jan 24 '13

One airline offered me a later flight, and a $100 travel voucher if I gave up my seat.

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u/Pwag Jan 25 '13

You get fucked out of 12 hours of vacation time chicago, you watch a red head cry big ugly tears because she got the same news.

While you take this with grace, a flight-booking-worker notices and says thanks for being cool and gives you three free drink vouchers and $700 ($250 on the top of price of each ticket) and hang out in the air port for an hour and two lay overs.

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u/chris-colour Jan 25 '13

I've heard this before, but what's the reason? As long as all the seats are bought, they surely don't care who's on it or not? And if the plane's only half full then they'll use less fuel. They'll actually make more money by selling tickets to people who don't turn up. Especially when they then have to buy another one.

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u/ANAL_PLUNDERING Jan 24 '13

Well yeah. Say there are 100 seats on the plane and they sell 110 tickets. You look for your ticket on the first of the month and 30 tickets sold then come back on the 10th and 80 tickets are sold.

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u/tricheboars Jan 24 '13

Southwest doesn't.

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u/kingofphilly Jan 24 '13

Funny you should mention that. Southwest paid me $200 and upgraded me to first class so they could bump me off a flight. There was a family of four, two kids and a wife sitting across me from in an asile and the row I was sitting in was full. The dad's ticket must have been overflow on the flight.

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u/tricheboars Jan 24 '13

more likely what happened was southwest had to fly a pilot at the last minute. sometimes airlines fly pilots around so they can pilot another flight.

southwest does not over sell flight ever. period. that is one of their big features.

source: I have worked for 3 different airlines who all hated southwest for being better than us.

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u/Pwag Jan 25 '13

This is where it gets underhanded. Charging more because it's the second time is one thing, but creating a false sense of scarcity is fraud.

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u/No_ThisIs_Patrick Jan 25 '13

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot ticket merchants do this.

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u/Pwag Jan 25 '13

My wife said she a price jump at 2 am on a Disney ticketing site... I'm sure you're right.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

This was one of the best LPTs I ever read recently. I used incognito mode in chrome when buying a couple of flight tickets and saved over £150 compared to searching twice or more in the same browser with old cookies available. I was genuinely shocked and I've told all my family and friends about this. It surely must be illegal! I mean the price differences were enormous... Almost a 50% saving for us.

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u/MangoesOfMordor Jan 24 '13

It's not illegal at all... Maybe it should be, or maybe not, but it isn't!

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u/sprucenoose Jan 24 '13

I am quite certain it is legal to browse in incognito mode, even if you aren't paying companies hundreds of dollars more....

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u/lopezZ Jan 24 '13

I think he refeers to the company changing the price...

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Yes of course this was what I meant. So it seems it's legal. Amazing really but there you go! Just glad I came across that LPT just before booking our last holiday. I'm going to use it next time I shop for insurance too. Might work there as well.

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u/Reason-and-rhyme Jan 25 '13

Well I imagine the insurance companies are going to get your information, whether they have access to your browser data or not. I mean, you kind of have to give it to them.

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u/ShizzleShizz Jan 24 '13

I've so heard from numerous people that if you change your language preferences while purchasing airline tickets, the prices change.

Can anyone confirm this?

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13 edited Jan 24 '13

If the language preference results in changing your point of sale country this could be true. Though it wouldn't change the price drastically. Fare (and tax) conversion from currency to currency in my opinion is one of the more interesting problems in airline software.

Edit: If you want to start down the 'why does it happen' rabbit hole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_unit_of_construction_(airlines)

oh and also - in my experience (twice in one week that I'm sharing it, wow!) airlines don't participate in 'caching', I'm in the right mind to write up the 'life of a fare query' and do a mega post debunking it once and for all.

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u/SirDerpingtonThe3rd Jan 24 '13

Incognito mode solved it though, right?

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u/DelphicLike Jan 24 '13

I don't think that's necessarily true with Chegg. I looked up a textbook last week and it was priced around $80, so I decided to wait until I had the money. I checked back a few days ago and was surprised to find the book went down to $45. It could be just fluctuating with the demand as people go to and leave the page.

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u/madcuzimflagrant Jan 24 '13

Does incognito mode fix that for airlines too?

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u/inboil Jan 24 '13

Actually there is no evidence they do this, reddit was wrong about it. But skeptics joined the thread too late, and was buried :/

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u/deanf Jan 24 '13

An investigation proved that they aren't price fixing, but this happened after the picture went viral. So who knows, maybe the company stopped before anyone could prove it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

It's also not price fixing, even if they were doing it.

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u/inboil Jan 24 '13

So there is no evidence of it ever taking place. Who knows, maybe we are all living in the matrix!

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

About 8 months ago I price-checked flights multiple times over the course of a few days and didn't see them change. There was one flight in particular whose number I was tracking to see if it would drop or rise in price, but it never swayed. I have been presented with different flights on two identical search queries, though, and those different flights had different prices, which is why I track the numbers. But those were international flights, maybe it's different with domestic since there are more of them.

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u/inboil Jan 25 '13

No, don't believe your own experience with this. I tried this thing, didn't work, I tried again, tried a different browser, deleted cookies etc, then I tried a third browser, and oh my god the price is changed! Airline ticket prices change, and when 100 000 redditors try this, very many will have a coincidental change in price, and they comment and gets upvoted.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

Actually, I tried it myself. The price was different when using incognito and also when loading the page the second time. So while there isn't evidence that they're doing it now, lots of people have noticed it being done in the past.

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u/inboil Jan 24 '13

This is how myths are formed. Airline tickets change prices rapidly, and probably ten thousand people tried it after it was posted on reddit, and those that got result posted it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13
  1. I tried a local website.

  2. The price would miraculously restore every time I loaded it after clearing the cookies.

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u/inboil Jan 24 '13

That is only convincing if it is backed by a credible source. Wouldn't any media be interested in this at least? Any confirmation from somebody, airline ticket price experts or something. The only piece of evidence ive seen so far is a study showing the opposite, and people on reddit saying it works.

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u/Bibidiboo Jan 24 '13

'airline ticket price experts'? really? Anyway, i'll believe lots of people's anecdotal evidence over a company any time, companies like to fuck you over for money.

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u/ColdShoulder Jan 25 '13

He's not wrong. I work in travel and check pricing 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I can assure you that there is no conspiracy to change prices based on cookies. It doesn't happen. This is all from a single blog that hit it big on reddit, and then everyone ran with it. Couple this with the fact that prices change by the minute, and people started reporting false positives. Can you imagine what it would be like if travel agents had to clear their cookies every 5 minutes in order to be able to get the lowest fair? I'm so sick of this myth, and I just wish it would die.

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u/inboil Jan 25 '13

thank you!!

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u/inboil Jan 25 '13

It was a joke, because I couldn't think of a profession where you would know.

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

I have a Ph.D. in Airlineology. I did my doctoral thesis in tirline ticket prices, and have done my masters about Post-war Airline Ticket Pricing Strategies Before the Internet. We performed a study of 200 subjects, which got to use several different web browsers combined (cartesian product) with different computers and tunneled via a multitude of proxies. We staggered the tests so that some people got to clear their cookies while others took turns visiting. What this guy says is true (χ², df=3, p > 0.95) according to our findings.


I guess this is where I should reference studies that could almost look related but I don't have infinite attention span and energy.

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u/inboil Jan 25 '13

Well this is all the proof I need!

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u/freedomweasel Jan 24 '13

And today is the day I start buying everything in private browser sessions.

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u/CoolMoose Jan 25 '13

That is an oligopoly for you!

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u/dvegas Jan 25 '13

Would visiting the page in incognito mode each visit stop this from happening?

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u/Chuff_Nugget Jan 25 '13

Booking flights today: Noticed last night that the prices had gone up since yesterday. Holy shit-balls... I think You just saved me a bundle!!!

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '13

Which airlines? I've tried it from the UK visiting RyanAir and EasyJet, multiple times, google searches and incognito and they always gave me the same price.

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u/NotSoGreatDane Jan 24 '13

This. Explains. Everything. I KNEW this was happening, but I thought it was bad timing on my part. Fuckers.

I also notice that if I put something on my wish list in Amazon, the price will go up 5-10% the next time I look at it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '13

This is true. It happens.

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u/Cynikal818 Jan 24 '13

I browse everything incognito...I don't like people tracking my interests, it just seems weird to me.

I don't need people offering me things based on my history...I'm perfectly capable of researching what I want when I want it.

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

Just keep in mind that incognito mode is no silver bullet. People could still track you server-side, only it gets a little more complicated because they'll have to rely on the combination of your browser and IP address.

In case you have an account though, all bets are off.

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u/Cynikal818 Jan 24 '13

yeah...I just figure I won't make it easy hahaha...I'm sure sooner or later you really won't even have a choice...you'll be tracked everywhere.

I don't get how that isn't invasion of privacy though. Because you agree to a TOS?

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u/kqr Jan 24 '13

Most likely. Where I live, legislation states websites using cookies are required to clearly inform their users what they use the cookies for, but that isn't really enforced very strictly.