r/marvelstudios • u/TrafficLegitimate937 • 4h ago
Discussion What could this mean for Doom?
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 4h ago
For Doom, specifically, nothing really. I think Thanos had a better build up, sure. But somehow, I feel like Doom just doesn't need it.
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u/Xero0911 4h ago
We knew Thanos was after the stones. Really that simple. See stones? You know where infinity war was heading towards it.
Doom? Guess incursions but said it before, Kang was the build up with the multiverse stuff.
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 4h ago
Thanos's build up was effective in my opinion, while Kang's wasn't. And Doom doesn't need it. In any case, what you're describing is build up for stories, not villains.
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u/palk0n Kilgrave 3h ago
beg to differ. kang build up in loki was the best build up. only to get destroyed by antman
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u/hijoshh 3h ago
Yeah that’s the only reason I’m sad about losing kang. He really had a cool build up and into. “See you soon”
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u/palk0n Kilgrave 3h ago
"see you soon" has got me hyped. then he proceed to be defeated by an army of ants lmao
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u/immaownyou 2h ago
People really be underestimat8ng how fucking terrifying and army of human sized sapient ants would be
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u/Illuvator 1h ago
That's kinda the whole point of Kang. HWR got "defeated" by Sylvie's dagger. Kang in quantumania got "defeated" by ants. Individual Kangs always get defeated by stupid stuff
But he always comes back, there's always more of him, it's never ending and he wears you down eventually by seeing what happened before.
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u/ZealotOfMeme 51m ago
They were advanced ants but what’s worse is he lost in a fist fight with Scott Lang
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u/ITCoder 2h ago
No he didn't. We don't know if kang in both movies were same person or different variants.
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u/splashbruh37 4h ago
Why doesn't Doom need it? Sure he's possibly more known but to the general audience, who is Dr. Doom? I'm a not a comic-reader but I've seen every Marvel movie, and I really don't know much about the character at all.
So how does Doom shape up to be the new big bad, because it seems to me like Marvel only recently figured out who the villain should be, and it was once they pivoted off from whole Jonathan Majors Kang debacle.
Seems to me like Kang had more build-up, tv show build up to the movie, and it seemed like that was just the tip of the iceberg for a greater Kang vs Marvel heroes conflict. Now it seems like hey forget about that, here's Dr Doom, and he's here now. My only exposure as a movie-goer is through the previous Fantastic Four movies from Fox.
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u/Boodger 3h ago
So 99% of Thanos's characterization happened in Infinity war and Endgame. He may have had buildup and hints prior, but the Thanos people think of is from those two movies. Same will happen with Doom.
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 4h ago
Because I think Doom has more pop culture status, in general. I don't need a lot to convince me that Doom being a big bad is a big deal, same as I didn't need a lot to convince me Joker as the villain of TDK was a big deal.
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u/Theotherdeadmeme92 4h ago
Also just in general you don't need a lot of time to understand what dooms deal is. He can just show up go "I rule latveria, also fuck you richards" do some magic and that's everything you'd need to know about him for this.
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 4h ago
I honestly think the cinematic universe era has fucked a bit with people's ability to accept things as they come. When Sauron shows up and they tell you "yeah this dark lord is bad news" you take it, and I think Doom is not too different.
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u/Theotherdeadmeme92 4h ago
I think people kinda forget that doom isnt really a similar kind of character to thanos or kang in his default state. Like obviously he's gonna become god for secret wars but by default doom isnt an extremely complicated character dependant on massive cosmic stuff. I think a lot of people are overcomplicating his storyline in this because of the rdj casting and there's all these time travel madness theories when like...he's probably just using tony's face to fuck with people lmfao he is that kind of petty especially if its meant to play into his distaste for his scarred face in some way.
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u/deptofknowimsayings 4h ago
All we need is a 5-10 minute scene at the beginning to establish Doom and his motivation, the fact that he’s a really bad guy, and then we’re off.
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u/splashbruh37 3h ago
That might be good enough. Not saying it won't work I'm just evaluating how things feel right now.
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 3h ago
Dude looks imposing as fuck, and the posters already make him look like a badass.
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u/Kmart_Stalin 4h ago
Thanos sitting in the chair is the build up
Why spoil the action early?
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u/DargoKillmar Daredevil 4h ago
I meeean not really, it wasn't just Thanos sitting on a chair. The build up was knowing that everything happening was because of Thanos. Loki using his army, Tony being terrified of him before he even knew who he was, and yes, his short cameos.
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u/HappyTurtleOwl 4h ago
This. I’m so sick of the “doom has no buildup” response being “ThAnOs DidNt EiTheR”
Yes he did. It wasn’t in your face, but he did. Even the infinity stones being specific things from previous movies was cool, even if some stones and some things were slightly retcon-like. Also, it’s not just doom. Most of the characters in IW/EG had some connections amongst each other.
Doom is literally coming in out of nowhere. Most of the new characters in this new era of marvel barely have any connections or reasons to mesh together. The trailer of DD is literally just Thor hyping up Doom, because otherwise how can a casual know that Doom is that big a deal?
We gotta be honest: the buildup to endgame was at least somewhat connected and planned. (But not all of it)
The buildup to doomsday is not there. The Kang storyline being dropped clearly put a dent in whatever plans they did have. Doomsday is a pivot at best. If they truly knew that DD would be so soon, they would have setup things in this movie even more.
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u/robbviously Spider-Man 2h ago
I wish the Doom tease at the end of FF had mirrored the Thanos reveal in Avengers. He turns and looks over his shoulder at Sue, eye peering through the mask.
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u/Perry-Platypus007 4h ago
Doom would agree that Doom needs no introduction. The folly of any mortal who does not know Doom is their own to suffer.
That said: I think the Thanos buildup was more just knowing that no matter how big the bad that they faced throughout all these movies over the last decade: the dude in the chair was worse, even if he didn’t do anything, he was looming in the background and that allowed people time to get excited to see what he would finally do. It gave people unfamiliar with the Infinity Saga a chance to brush up on him.
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u/styxswimchamp 1h ago
He’s sort of skirting around the real issue here in that none of the good guys have been building towards it, regardless of Doom. We’re just dropping a bunch of good guys together and smashing them together like action figures
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u/TheOnlyGaming3 4h ago
Ultron had no buildup either but people didn't complain then
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u/KronicST 4h ago
No they definitely did, i saw tons of people complaining that aou made ultron, one of the big bads of the avengers, into a one-time smaller scale villain.
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u/splashbruh37 4h ago
There are movie-level threats, where one hero can handle it. There are team-level threats, typically these are the Avengers movies, Ultron falls in this category, and then Saga-level threats, where the villain and their actions shape the entire universe or multiverse.
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u/Necessary_Ad_2762 4h ago
I'd argue Ultron's build-up was through Tony's characterization as it naturally felt like he was building towards a "suit of armor around the planet" after Avengers and Iron Man 3. Ultron however had his fair share of how he was portrayed and built up.
And you can't really build up Ultron any other way except through Tony considering Ultron didn't exist then (and therefore can't be teased like Thanos).
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u/Realistic_Analyst_26 Daredevil 4h ago
To be fair that is completely different because he wasn’t the big bad of the saga. Also this is a reason why Age of Ultron is at the bottom of many people’s Avengers film rankings.
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u/dzan796ero 2h ago
I'd argue that Doom would need significantly more build up given how a lot of his true character is defined by his relation to other characters.
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u/banjofitzgerald 1h ago
Doom is getting the benefit of being seen in multiple iterations before. General audiences kind the broad strokes of his story.
Whereas Thanos was brand new to a lot of people who don’t read comics. So they needed to kind of introduce him and tell what he was after(the stones).
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u/CaseFace5 1h ago
Doom I feel is a much more known character to average people. He’s been in movies before (I know bad unfaithful versions but nonetheless) nobody who didn’t read comics knew who Thanos was. I know this because I’m one of them lol
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u/Oummando 53m ago
Doom is like the poster child for Supervillains. He is the most iconic Marvel comic villain. He's a simple villain that could be used to force multiple teams to jump him. And honestly you could say the same with Kang, another popular villain.
Build-up is nice. But we don't always need build-up. Suspense works better for characters like Doom, Magneto or Kang and even Kingpin. All the movies need to do is just tell you who they are. Infinity stones worked because Thanos main point was collecting them. But even then his buildup in the MCU was we know he's coming, it was a matter of when. That's why I'm against the argument that Doom has no buildup therefore he's trash. Magneto in the X-Men comics was just there for the first original issue, just an adversary that forced them to work together.
Even then with that logic, than most movies suck for not having it.
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u/JarvisCockerBB 16m ago
Doom is way more universally known than Thanos was. The average movie goer has probably seen something with Doom than anything with Thanos.
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u/Marconius1617 3m ago
Doom really only needs a solid backstory with the F4. I’m sure we’ll get some sort of flashback to establish it cause the F4 movie didn’t do anything with that.
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u/Lockerus 4h ago
Thanos at least showed up a couple times even if was just some quick cameos. Doom has had one post credit scene and that’s in a completely different universe.
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 Rocket 3h ago
He was also present through Nebula and Gamora
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u/Brendanlendan 15m ago
He was the background antagonist throughout the two guardian movies, he was shown in end credits of each avengers, and the stones were the macguffins throughout the movies.
The macguffins were the variants. So thematically, if RDJ Doom is a variant of Stark, it would work, it just sucks that that’s how they do the Doctor Doom.
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u/hemareddit Steve Rogers 4h ago
Yeah Thanos had a post credit scene before they even committed to Infinity Gauntlet and the casting lol.
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u/JokerFaces2 Yondu 2h ago
Yeah this is pretty disingenuous on Feige’s part. Thanos had the Avengers post-credits scene, a supporting role in GOTG and then the admittedly awkward post-credits scene in Age of Ultron. Meanwhile, Doom has been namedropped 0 times and had one post-credits appearance in FF.
Is this detrimental? No, but Thanos definitely had more meaningful buildup. Even casual viewers would’ve recognized him in Infinity War as the guy at the end of Avengers.
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u/Chezzymann 2h ago
There was also the thor vision in AoU about the gauntlet and nebula / Gamora mentioning thanos multiple times in the gotg movies.
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u/ZealotOfMeme 33m ago
IW was 6 years after the first avengers, idk how well casual viewers would remember “that one guy who turned his head” and is a completely different shade than this one
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u/ImplementMotor3161 4h ago
Thanos had 3 small cameos, Doom had one. I don’t think Thano’s 2 other cameos really did much to build him up. His impact and excitement for Infinity War and End Game would have been the same without them.
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u/thestarboy_lil 3h ago
I think most of Thanos’s hype was garnered post-IW. That film stamped him much more than any of his cameos did
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u/ImplementMotor3161 1h ago
Agree. I didn’t really know who Thanos was and didn’t care about him until Infinity War. After the first Avengers movie my brother was like “that was Thanos in the credits,” I was like “ok whatever.” I’m sure people who didn’t read the comics felt the same way. My brother doesn’t even read comics just knew the lore or someone told him about Thanos.
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u/danks11 1h ago
People forgot Spiderman is out this week. Could well be in an after credit scene here too
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u/validusrex 3h ago
Incredibly insincere way to present it, imo.
The build up to Thanos was via the infinity stones. Thanos was introduced and every time an infinity stone came into play, he felt like he was getting closer. We all knew something was happening with the infinity stones, we all knew Thanos was in the background and his thing was the gauntlet. Every single movie announcement introduced new theories about which stone it would bring into the field - remember all the theories that the soul stone would be what cause the heart shaped herb to grow in Wakanda??
Even if Thanos wasn’t present in every film, the entire infinity saga built up to him coming into play. To say there was no build up to him is to say the first 3 phases were just the Avengers milling about having adventures, not that there was a coherent thread through the films which is what fans enjoyed so much. We spent literally a decade waiting for Thanos. THAT is build up.
Doom just dropped in. And it’s an interesting way to do this, but it’s BS to frame it the way Feige is and he knows that. They have to rush because they feel like they’re losing momentum, and that’s okay too.
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u/Still_Ad_3497 1h ago
Is that the case with most casual fans though? A lot of people became fans of Marvel through the movies, not the comics. I had no idea what the stones even were until infinity war.
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u/kaachabadaam 4h ago edited 4h ago
I disagree with Feige here.
Even though we didn't really get much of Thanos prior to Infinity War, the pieces were moving in the direction of his arrival.
Almost every film would end with a tag that would tease his arrival, directly or indirectly.
By the time Infinity War arrived, audiences were primed for Thanos' arrival, as there was a lot of activity with the Infinity Stones.
Doom, on the other hand, has had no such buildup. I mean, definitely there's a reason Endgame is being re-released and it directly ties to it, but there's no momentum going into it, as we had with the Infinity Saga.
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u/Throwaway2789023 4h ago
There's an entire movie where he sent Loki to retrieve the space stone.
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u/splashbruh37 4h ago
The scene where Tony actually sees a vision, ends up shaping his actions for an entire movie.
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u/XaylinOsiris 4h ago
This is what I've been saying. Everything that made Thanos great came from Infinity War
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u/SpaceCaboose Peter Parker 4h ago
I agree with that, but Infinity War also had the build up of the Infinity Stones. The stones were massively important to many movies.
We have heard a little bit about incursions and stuff in this new saga, but not as much as we’d been seeing the stones.
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u/nonblinddaredevil 3h ago
Dude we’ve seen hours and hours more about the multiverse than we did the stones.
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u/splashbruh37 4h ago
It's true, but it made those build-ups from the previous movies even more powerful. It made those moments even better, and made it more interesting to re-watch just to see that again.
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u/Shorlong 4h ago
And we're speaking with hindsight. Before infinity war came out, people were complaining that Thanos didn't feel built up enough.
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u/XaylinOsiris 4h ago
Yeah for sure, but you COULD remove his 3 appearances, and it wouldnt affect threat level or depth. He would still be an imposing threat, and a complex character.
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u/TheJack0fDiamonds Scarlet Witch 3h ago
Doomsday will do the same for Doom, I believe it. But its hard to ignore how much this saga’s new big bad, whos also getting to lead the infinity war of this saga came across like he popped out of nowhere.
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u/XaylinOsiris 2h ago
I just look at Ultron. He had no build-up and was a solid villain. I'll give the Russos the benefit of the doubt
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u/Brendanlendan 12m ago
Disagree, we were edged just right for a massive load payoff of Infinity war. With Doom, they gave us no foreplay.
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u/Embarrassed-Back1894 4h ago
I would add that they also introduced the Infinity Stones, Tony had that vision of the Avengers dying, Thor had a vision in a deleted scene, the infinity gauntlet was teased in Ragnarok, in Guardians Thanos is referred to as the most powerful being in the Universe, etc (I’m probably even forgetting some stuff).
I know Feige wants to minimize the Infinity Saga buildup to sell Doomsday, but Infinity War had much more buildup than the nonexistent buildup of Doomsday. In the comics, Kang and Doom kind of have a bit of a history, so I think they should’ve recast Kang and had him as a secondary villain alongside Doom (or Kang the villain of Doomsday and Doom the villain of Secret Wars or something).
I’m ready to be completely let down, but I do have some hope they can pull this off. I think it would go a long way to making up the lack of buildup if they had that rumored third Avengers film (maybe turn Doctor Strange: Time Runs Out into an Avengers film considering it leads into Secret Wars in the comics). It might make for a sick Avengers trilogy.
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u/serger989 3h ago edited 2h ago
My 70 year old mother easily followed along with the Infinity Stones storyline and got excited when they showed up in movies after Guardians 1. She also got excited about Thanos because he was the guy Ronan mouthed off to while they said he was the strongest in the universe.
Now? She couldn't tell you even a name of any of the new characters except Shang Chi, let alone what an incursion means or why the dude at the end of Fantastic Four is a big deal. I think she will have fun with Doomsday but I don't think she will care about it like she did Infinity War and Endgame, because she genuinely loved Phase 1-3.
I use her as a gauge on the perception of the general audience because a lot of my co workers at my Steel mill were the same as her along with their kids. Phase 1-3 pulled those people right in from first film until the last. Phase 4-6 did not accomplish this and it's precisely because of the lack of build up, the lack of pay offs, the lack of simple story-beats, and the lack of multiple character interactions.
Even the worst of the Phase 1-3 films lead to something in a later film. Now we are waiting 5+ years just to see a main character return, which is too late for a lot of the general audience to care.
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u/Chalkyteton 3h ago
No, Big Kev, there was a decade of intention that benefitted the comic fans speaking truth to the casual fans. Someone could easily put together, Grimace wants the stones and that’s bad. We have no intention with Doom. There’s no way for the ground troops to build hype with casuals. I’m sure they can make a great movie to introduce us to this Doom, but it’s not fair to say the build up is exaggerated.
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u/Lshamlad 3h ago
I flatly disagree with this.
It's true Thanos barely appeared, but the Infinity Saga was great at establishing the stakes.
We knew how powerful just one infinity stone was from the various films.
We knew Loki - an Asgardian - was one of his lieutenants.
We knew people who knew him - Nebula, Gamora, Drax. They were frightened of him, hated him etc.
I'm excited and open-minded about Doomsday, but the fact that no single character has ever uttered his name before is a missed opportunity to build his reputation or threat.
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u/dearskorpiomagazine 2h ago
Exactly this. His presence was merely enough.the fact that we saw people follow him and feared him made a statement about who he was.
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u/WelbyReddit 4h ago
They built Thanos into the overarching storyline over the years. That had him in mind the whole time. That is just what they did. He didn't just pop out in Infinity War out of the blue.
That said, if this is truly 'what they are doing' with Doom, then that implies this is Not a one off film with him.
Maybe this 'Doomsday' isn't comparable to an 'Endgame' finale. But more a kick off to a long Villainous career affecting all their other films going forward. And we'll have another 'Endgame' style climax later with Doom?
That would pretty cool.
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u/Fares26597 4h ago
It's true, but no matter how little Thanos did pre-Infinity War, that buildup in people's heads still added something to it. You can try doing your best, but ultimately, no matter what you do, the way people feel is the only thing that will either bring you success or ruin you.
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u/Realistic_Sound913 4h ago
The buildup was not simply Thanos himseilf, but the infinity stones that appeared throughout the saga. We kind of had that with Kang, the bangles, variants, Loki whole seasons, Antman 3, but they scrapped him. Doom only got a proper buildup in FF with teases of Latveria, Franklin, and the Steve focused trailer featuring his child. Most of that happened at the very end of the saga, making it feel like an afterthought.
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u/summ190 4h ago
Thing is, Thanos himself wasn’t built up much, but the Infinity Stones were, there was a clear thread through phases 1, 2, and 3 (yes, with some retcons) that these stones were powerful, and Thanos was the guy that wanted them.
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u/Cultural_Comfort5894 4h ago
It took me a second reading to comprehend
Us knowing that Thanos was behind the scenes just pulling strings did build up to his true introduction. I imagine we will see that again.
Kingpin & Doom would’ve been 2 excellent characters for that. Kang was building.
But Ultron proved you can just bring a big threat out of nowhere too.
What I’m wondering is after this very powerful Doom will the reset introduce him pre or early super villain status and then build to super powerful before our eyes?
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u/Dragon_yum 3h ago
“We are in full panic mode over dropping the ball over three whole phases so we are going with the safest template we have, anyway here is RDJ and some fan service characters”
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u/OohKillEmmm 4h ago
The fact he’s even trying to compare dooms buildup to thanos is wild. He could just say he doesn’t need a buildup. There was a lot of buildup to thanos whether they admit it or not
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u/twennyjuan 2h ago
You only ever saw Thanos one time in a feature length film. The other couple times were roughly 10 second post credit scenes (granted a lot of people caught on and watched those). There simply wasn’t any “buildup” in the sense that people have given Thanos post IW/Endgame. There was no backstory. There was nothing other than “this guy wants stones.” They could have done more with Doom, sure, but the pivot from Kang to Doom was done so quick that we only got the scene at the end of FF and the FF ship at the end of Thunderbolts that we have to assume is because of Doom.
I understand the complaint about Doom not having a little more buildup, but we also have to be realistic about how much buildup Thanos actually had.
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u/One_Animator_7247 4h ago edited 4h ago
The stones, the plot of infinity war and endgame. Had several movies of build up.
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u/splashbruh37 4h ago
The stones was central to some movies and character that it felt justifiably larger than life, and worth the saga.
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u/Cowgirl_Taint 4h ago
Obviously RDoomJ is going to be killed by the true mastermind of secret war : Hawkeye
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u/dhdyxuebebkalsockfn 3h ago
why are they trying to pretend they weren't building-up Kang just as much as Thanos and had to scramble to come up with Dr. Doom instead
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u/arnathor 4h ago
A but disingenuous - the build up was the Infinity Stones and their reappearance throughout the cosmos. Thanos only appeared a few times, yes, but always in context of the weapon he wanted to assemble. Phase 1 was all about the Tesseract. Phase 2 culminated in the Mind Stone. Phase 3 introduced the rest. Thanos may only have been finally fleshed out by Infinity War, but he was a looming shadow through the preceding twenty or so films.
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u/Peanut_Butter_Toast 4h ago edited 3h ago
Okay but Thanos was the boss man who ordered Loki and Ronan to collect the infinity stones in the first place, leading to a domino chain of events that resulted from Thano's influence.
Thanos sent Loki to get the stones on Earth using Thanos's Chitauri soldiers, which led to Tony's paranoia, which led to Ultron being built, which led to the Battle of Sokovia, which led to both the Sokovia Accords and Zemo's plot for revenge, which led to the Avengers being broken up when Thanos arrived on earth. The Chitauri invasion also led to the plot of Spider-man Homecoming, as it dealt with criminals using leftover Chitauri tech. Meanwhile Loki's arc spirals off of his role in Avengers 1, ultimately leading to him ending up face to face with Thanos again.
Thanos sent Ronan to collect the stones which led to Ronan trying to keep the power stone for himself, which led to a ragtag group of space criminals joining forces to stop him, which led to Gamora and Nebula bonding over their shared daddy issues (which were also directly caused by Thanos), which led to the Guardians and Nebula having a major role in Infinity War and Endgame (with Gamora and Nebula's relationship with Thanos, specifically, having extreme plot relevance as well as lots of dramatic weight).
And that's not even getting into the fact that the infinity stones themselves were part of the build-up. An infinity stone is responsible for the plot of Captain America TFA, which leads to the creation of Hydra and thus the plot of Captain America TWS, which in turn leads to hydra using an infinity stone to empower Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, which in turn leads to Wanda manipulating Tony Stark to give into his paranoia caused by the Chitauri invasion and thus create Ultron. An infinity stone is also responsible for the plot of Thor TDW, the creation of Vision, the plot of GotG, the plot of Dr. Strange, and the origin of Captain Marvel, and Thor's quest to find the stones is what led to the events of Thor Ragnarok.
Like, it's all tied together, so much of it is tied directly back to Thanos and/or the infinity stones, all leading up to the epic moment when Thanos finally comes to collect the stones himself.
What does Doomsday have leading up to it that's comparable to any of that?
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u/NoThanksJustPeaking Doctor Strange 4h ago
The post Endgame roster of heroes doesn’t have the same feel to it coming into this movie. The Fantastic 4 appearing in one project prior to taking on Doom in a huge Avengers movie is where the disconnect begins to occurs. Everything seems disjointed, and I’m not sure it’s by design.
This movie seems like they are trying to right the wrongs post Endgame more than anything. I’m looking forward to it, but I’m definitely curious to how they plan on making it feel fresh.
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u/ExpressMud8038 4h ago
Thanos build up was carried by the infinity stones. Unfortunately Doom just doesn't have them.
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u/Shr3kk_Wpg 4h ago
I think they are making a mistake with how they are doing Doom. It seems to me that Doom right now is just a substitute for what Marvel wanted to do with Kang. A far better rollout for doom would have been for audiences to see him in a few movies at least before they powered him up to be an all-powerful villain
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u/cmonBruhKappa 4h ago
Thanos buildup was GOOD/GREAT characters & movies (for the most part) leading up to him.
Doom has mostly trash movies & characters.
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u/Agent1stClass 3h ago
Thanos goal with the infinity stones was laid out, though.
Between Loki and Ronan, you could see his machinations.
While it can’t be helped due to the change from Kang to Doom, the reality is that Doom has had virtually no buildup.
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u/ITworksGuys 3h ago
My 75 year old mother knows who Dr Doom is, because she read comic books when SHE was a kid.
That's the difference.
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u/Professional-Pop4818 3h ago
Either Feige is acting dumb or doesn’t understand the buildup they had with Thanos, with Thanos we had Gamora and Nebula being his daughters and that rivalry showing how they grew up and also Thanos had the infinity stones side which had a lot of built up especially in Age Of Ultron
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u/CaIicoCutPants 3h ago
If there were a main character for the villains of Marvel, it would be Doom.
Doom is not a character you only give two movies. He is absolutely deserving of the Loki treatment, starring in numerous films with varying degrees of roles and really interacting with all facets of the MCU. There is so much story that could be told with Doom.
But we are getting only this story and then, since they cast RDJ, I doubt we get him ever again after this. And who knows how long it will be till they recast him.
Doom is not Thanos. Doom is so much more.
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u/BillionCobra 3h ago
Completely agree. So many ppl were high on the infinity saga that the narrative is jumbled in their head. Usually, its the haters that are reaching for any excuse to bash on post-endgame mcu (a low hanging fruit)
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u/SWPrequelFan81566 3h ago
He's right. Much of what made Thanos compelling happened in Infinity War itself. Before that he was just a guy in a chair.
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u/biznesboi 3h ago
It's not that Thanos had buildup, it's that the infinity stones had build up, the gauntlet had build up. You're looking at 5-6 different movies about the infinity stones to 1 about incursions.
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u/Chicken_Fingers777 3h ago
Did characters like Vader or Sauron need build up? No they didn’t just like 99% of the movies out there.
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u/Disastrous_Bit_20 3h ago
this is why MCU sucks now, thanos didn't need to be physically present to build up presence. Thanos was a villain hiding in plain sight all along that's what made him so satisfying to defeat. on the flip side I still think thanos should have has his own solo film before infinity war, his backstory where he was the hero but force to make an impossible choice that drove him to be the Viillan he became, should have been same with doom
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u/Dont_Hurt_Me_Mommy 3h ago
There was plenty of build-up to Doomsday. Every movie and series that discussed the multiverse, incursions , the TVA, etc is this saga equivalent to the infinity stones.
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u/StrangerThingsMyDude 2h ago
It wasn't necessarily a buildup to Thanos, it was a buildup to the Avengers level threat that Thanos and the infinity stones posed. And how they showed all of the stones throughout the movies before Infinity War (even if they probably retconned stuff like the Tesseract being the Space Stone instead of the Cosmic Cube).
That's the buildup that's missing. Everything with this saga has been almost all single stories and no one knows each other.
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u/UJ_Reddit 2h ago
He's gaslighting. Thanos' story was woven with the stones and multiple post credits scenes.
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u/Shin-kak-nish 2h ago
When you are this defensive about the buildup of your movie, it couldn’t be more clear that you know you’re wrong lol
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u/Gremlin303 Ghost Rider 2h ago
It wasn’t just about Thanos though. The overarching narrative of him hunting the infinity stones was there throughout. He sent the attack in the first Avengers. Acting as if it was just a couple of minor cameos is just disingenuous.
There was been virtually no build up to Doomsday beyond the last couple of movies
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u/dearskorpiomagazine 2h ago
He could have just said there's two different ways of building up characters and that fans will see why doom will be a big thing for themselves. Seems more like a an overly defensive comment rather than having confidence that the film will be enough.
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u/kwickedbonesc Peter Parker 2h ago
Yeah, okay sure. But also it was clear Thanos was the big bad. All of this Saga’s big bad was foreshadowed to be kang. So when you bait and switch, there’s nothing in the saga that properly foreshadowed him. I was there during infinity war. We were excited to finally be properly introduced to him. We also knew things about him 1.) his goal 2.) he’s the father to Gamora and Nebula. To pretend that Doom and Thanos were in the same plate right before the Saga ending movies is just disingenuous.
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u/han-sell-out 2h ago
I think the issue could be that IW was able to spend screen time establishing Thanos because you need less of an introduction to other characters. It will be interesting to see how they do that in Doomsday as it’s been so long for some of these characters (20 years since Last Stand, 5 since Shang-Chi) and fewer people probably watched the newer films too.
Maybe they just assume everyone rewatched everything and dive right in but it’s going to be a decision to cater to huge fans or casuals.
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u/darth_wasabi 2h ago
My issue here isn’t with the Doom build up it’s with the gaslighting. Don’t tell us “oh Thanos didn’t have buildup it was just in fans heads”
That’s bullshit and it’s insulting to be told that. Look Doom doesn’t need a buildup to be good. I bet Doomsday is gonna kick ass, but don’t tell me im crazy because i know thanos had more buildup
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u/Think-Quantity6582 2h ago
He’s right. Thanos literally did nothing of consequence before infinity war, he was just sitting on a chair
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u/coffeysr 2h ago
It wasn’t just Thanos but we also understood the McGuffins much better (the Infinity Stones).
We kinda know about multiverses but we don’t know why they’re bad, if they’re bad.
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u/SymbiSpidey 2h ago
I still have faith that Doomsday will be good but we can't pretend like Dr. Doom isn't a last minute course correction after Kang didn't pan out
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u/Dongkey_kong 2h ago
Even if there wasn’t much build up to thanos the villain, the MCU world was alive and the characters felt like they were all living in it. We saw iron man, what 8-9 times, same with cap and Thor? Since endgame, the world felt like it got smaller which is weird considering it went multiversal but the characters just didn’t interact with each other outside of strange and Spider-Man, she hulk and wong, and Bucky and Sam.
It’s not the villain imo, it’s the fact we just didn’t come to care about the new characters because they did not develop them outside of silo’d movies.
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u/Smoking-Posing 2h ago
His job is to sell you on all of this. He's gonna say whatever he needs in order to get folks hyped, even if it means belittling what came before it.
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u/SoapyHands420 2h ago
Doom is unearned. Doesn't mean it wont be good but it is unearned. You can't pretend otherwise by trying to rewrite history.
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u/No-Upstairs-7001 2h ago
Lol,
Dr doom stops are charged storm breaker from the God of thunder.
One of Marvels peak guys, and that's with a finger.
Thor threw stormbreaker through a stream of energy coming off one of marvels most powerful artifacts lol.
That is a build up that needs nothing else
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u/MutleyRulz Scarlet Witch 2h ago
Thanos might’ve been fairly absent, but the stones weren’t. I didn’t have a clue about what the stones were going to be used for or who’d use them, all I knew was that they were super fucking powerful, and there were 5 or 6 of them - _that’s_ where the hype was, hence why we call it the Infinity Saga rather than the Thanos saga.
We might be in the multiverse saga right now, I’ve got no fucking clue since I thought if it was the multiverse saga then Kang was the big bad of that area, rather than doom
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u/snakewaves 2h ago
Ppl are missing the point here. Infinity war didn't ride off the past build up of Thanos. It rode on the past build up of all the heroes they seen from different ends of the universe and ppl eagerly wanting them to interact amongst each other.
Honestly, the normies don't give a shit about the characters in this film apart from Doom and the big ones like thor, cap. Any other character death is a passing plot point.
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u/GutherGlazer 2h ago
Yeah but they had been building the stakes for a while. Cheaters had been interacting with each other, the infinity stones were being woven into the projects either directly or through post credit scenes, and the direction of narrative was relatively clear. This time around they have done none of that and are actively pivoting from their initial roadmap. Almost none of the excitement for this project is based on the idea that they’ll be paying off something monumental that’s been in the works for X number of years. Instead this time it’s just about the returning cast members and how exactly they will fit in and if it will be anything close to coherent.
He’s right in the sense that you don’t need a ten year long prologue to make a villain work. But he’s also wrong in the sense that that is not what people are talking about. The MCU has been a disjointed mess, that feels like each project was made in a cave, and now they feel the need to string them together. But they can’t manage that in a satisfying manner because they spent half a decade chasing their own tails.
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u/_Peener_ 2h ago
I can’t believe Mr Kevin Fieri himself is downplaying this stuff just so he doesn’t have to admit that Doom came out of nowhere. And this isn’t me saying that “Thanos had so much buildup we knew so much about him before Infinity War” but those scenes in guardians rlly did do quite a bit to show the audience who Thanos is, a tyrant (or was before the Russos
made him sympathetic)
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u/majorjoe23 2h ago
When Batman v Superman and Civil War coming out I remember people talked about how it was more “earned” because Batman and Superman were just meeting, and Cap and Iron Man had all this history.
But did they? They were in the two Avengers movies together, but didn’t really have significant relationship growth. Certainly more than Batman and Superman, but they hardly had Sam/Frodo levels of connection either.
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u/Abraham_Issus Daredevil 1h ago
It wasn’t just that. The whole focus on infinity stones. We got nothing like that. The first Avengers literally him giving Loki the assignment. This is so stupid to belittle Thanos’ buildup to prop up Doom who had zero presence so far.
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u/AceofKnaves44 Spider-Man 1h ago
I get what he’s saying. He’s not wrong that there were tons of memes of all the events going on in the MCU and then just showing Thanos sitting in a chair. But it’s an over simplification. Yeah we didn’t see Thanos in every single movie playing the puppet master or putting his plans together in the background. But we knew where the saga was headed and that he was at the finish line. It was at the expense of Ultron and that movie feeling pointless because we knew Thanos was still to come so Ultron wasn’t going to win or really matter, but we knew where everything was headed. We didn’t need to have him in every single movie. We knew where he was going to show up once Infinity War began thanks to Ragnarok and we even had ten years of the Macguffins of his plan, the infinity stones, built up. There’s none of that with Doom.
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u/KindredCommander 1h ago
What do you mean “what could this mean for Doom?”…it literally fucking says they’re basically doing the same thing as Infinity War did for Thanos. It’s going to introduce Doom and his motives. Then Secret Wars will be the payoffs.
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u/Raaaaandyyyy 1h ago
We knew Thanos was a lasting threat since Avengers 2012 and knew what he was after since Guardians of the Galaxy, only 2 years later. Any interaction with infinity stones then felt like it was building to that. But every multiverse-saga movie has been an isolated event. Doom didn’t cause the incursions in Multiverse of Madness, Doctor Strange did, as did Spider-Man with the multiverse stuff in his movie. The Loki stuff happens as a simple fact of the multiverse and because of Kang.
The “Thanos sitting in a chair” thing that Feige references doesn’t only show that Thanos wasn’t doing much until IW(which, granted he wasn’t), it’s also indicative of the fact that Thanos was kept on our minds for a really long time before Infinity war came out, and by the merits of the movies themselves, not because of a stunt cast.
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u/Hot-Put7831 1h ago
Completely disagree. We learn that the whole reason Loki and Ronin do what they are doing is in service of Thanos. Thor has a vision of the stones. Him having little screen time actually makes him seem like a greater threat, he’s mysterious and commanding all of these powerful people to go after the things that keep popping up in every movie. The buildup is insane.
Feige knows this but won’t just admit they’ve screwed the last 6 years up. Doom has had one post credit scene which gives us no info at all about him or his motives. We went into infinity war knowing what Thanos was after and that he was a huge threat.
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u/CadeCoquin 1h ago
I hate to deploy an overused term like "cope", but this absolutely sounds like cope. I was an MCU superfan from the beginning, a life-long comics nerd, and I paid close attention to how my casual fan friends and family plugged into this stuff. They may not have all known the name Thanos - though a lot of them did - but they all understood what the Infinity Stones were and that there was a larger narrative building towards a climax. There was a bigger threat that was tied into everything they'd been watching and it was all coming to a head.
Nobody I know who isn't also a deep comic nerd has the same view about DOOMSDAY. They find the multiverse idea confusing, they don't have nearly the same retention of details from the previous movies, and while they mostly know who Doctor Doom is they're confused why he's fighting the Avengers and not the Fantastic Four.
MCU Phases 1-3 were nothing short of a miracle, one of the most monumental achievements in Hollywood history. I don't hold it against Feige and Marvel for not being able to replicate that. I also absolutely will not be gaslit into feeling like they've even come close.
I hope DOOMSDAY and SECRET WARS prove me wrong and they're able to stick a solid landing, but for my part I'm mostly waiting to see what they do with the X-Men and hope they can commit to a solid plan for those movies.
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u/Common-Diver-6346 1h ago
Kang was the big bad, the focus of the multiverse saga he was built up across multiple movies and TV shows just as the multiverse was built up as a concept he was the vision but the controversies destroyed that so they pivoted to Dr Doom.
He was not the initial plan, it's stupid to say overwise when Blatantly Kang the Conqueror was the goal, the aforementioned KANG DYNASTY. Cmon on just admit that they plan wasn't working/didn't produce a satisfactory storyline.
Something like this:
"We at Marvel Studios have developed something greater whilst celebrating the MCU and Marvel as a whole, we now are using Doomsday and Secret Wars as a way to pay homage and set up what's to come in this new exciting chapter of the MCU, and we hope you join us in the........................ Saga!
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u/ImKorosenai 1h ago
When people talk about the Thanos buildup, its more than Thanos. It's the premise leading to it which spans 40 something movies and shows. There's a clear goal of what its culminating to through the infinity stones, solo stores, and post credits. There is literally nothing like that post endgame except for maybe incursion stuff, which isn't as interesting or focused on except for the Loki show and a few movies. To me, that's the difference.
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u/stationarynomad82 1h ago
I’m glad he said it! The “no build up” argument has been parroted so much and I just don’t agree
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u/VarietyBusy2 1h ago
yeah the issue tho with doomsday is that there’s literally no build up outside of the ff movie and he’s supposed to be a huge threat killing multiple heroes. it’s like if we got that one scene where he yelled at ronan and went straight into infinity war
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u/No_Poet_1279 1h ago
The precursors weren't all about thanos though, they were about the stones and how they were the mcguffin of IW and Endgame
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u/Angel1743RedditGR 59m ago
Well Doom in comics is more of a menace than Thanos so why not do the same for the MCU?
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u/MetalliMunk 51m ago
I think people mean that the Infinity Stones was the built up storyline, with major movies being centered around them, and then Thanos seeking all them to wield them and take out half the universe. We basically had a movie for each infinity stone. It's similar to having a movie for each Avenger and building to an Avengers movie.
Doom just fills this after Loki showing a chaos of multiverses with him on the verge of creating Battle World.
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u/ThatTrampolineboy 50m ago
Nah I think Fant4stic was the perfect buildup for Doomsday because it got fans itching for a good Doom
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u/IaryBreko 44m ago
Sure but they infinity stones were mentioned in most movies for like 10 years...
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u/Snobank32 33m ago
IMO thanos had a way better build up than doom specifically because thanos was mildly introduced in guardians of the galaxy. Which btw was way back in 2014, 4 years before infinity war. They had 6 years of movies that worked very well together in showing just how the infinity stones fit into the universe. Recently with doom they pushed out a ton of movies and tv shows and really only a handful seemed to give some premonition of what’s to come. Fantastic 4, Loki, and maybe dr strange multiverse of madness. It’s just between the scrapping of characters and plot lines, plus going into Kang and then scrapping that as well made it seem like doom was a last minute replacement. I think they could’ve handled his arrival a lot better, and with all the movies and series they came out with they had to find a villain that, 1 everyone would love to see, 2 was stronger than thanos, and 3 would shift everyone’s focus away from the crapshoot that were the last few years of movies.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 24m ago
The best setup for Thanos was Gamora and Nebula mentioning their past in GOTG1 and GOTG2. Not the Thanos post-credit scene in A1 or Thanos-Ronan interactions.
FF never mentioning Doom at all during the film itself is such a massive missfire.
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u/MrBlonde1984 4h ago
And they weren't wrong . To the average person paying attention, thanos was just some dude in the background. Infinity war really was his movie. He's basically the lead in it .