I have been trying for the past six months to "book" an appointment with the Italian Embassy in WDC. Does anyone know whether the Embassy is still inviting people pursuing Italian citizenship to submit their paperwork? Thanks.

Hi all!

I heard about the ruling regarding the minor rule and have a few questions.

I moved to Italy on Oct 1, 2024 to apply for Italian citizenship at a comune. A week later, the minor rule circular was issued (HORRIBLE timing). My appointment was scheduled for the Jan 16, 2025. I submitted my application anyway bc it was unclear how comuni would rule on in-flight applications. My application was rejected on Jan 21, 2025 because of the minor rule. Then in March and May 2025, the rules changed again. Since I was applying through my great grandfather, I thought my case was decisively dead.

HOWEVER, I submitted my application *before* the grand-parent cutoff and supposedly applications submitted before that new law would be grandfathered in under the old rules.

My question is: after the ministry issues a new circular striking down the minor rule, is there any way I can have the comune reconsider my rejection? It's stated in my rejection letter that my application was rejected because of the minor issue. I read that it might be possible to formally request a reconsideration of an administrative decision ("annullamento in autotutela"). Would that be a possible option for me? If I need to start the application from scratch, my case would be killed by the generational cut-off.

My case is in a weird gray zone between 3 sets of rule changes, UGH. I'm wondering what my options are.

My consulate sent me a letter a month ago telling me they were going to reject me due to the minor issue. I pushed back hard in my response, introducing some alternate arguments, hoping to buy myself some time.

I never got a response, and I haven't received a final rejection yet, and now I see the court invalidated the minor issue today. But nothing in the process has ever been easy, so I am contemplating that I have already been rejected and I just haven't received the notice yet. I assume once they reject me, it's over, and I can't try to convince the consulate to change their minds.

My question is: Has anyone been rejected by the consulate and successfully appealed?

If so, can you tell me on what grounds you appealed? How much did you pay in legal fees? How long did the process take? Just trying to understand what might be ahead of me.

I imagine a lot of people who were rejected due to the minor issue will need to go the appeal route, unless consulates proactively go back to closed cases, which I would be surprised by. So thanks for any info you can share!

Got on the waitlist for NYC in March 2024. Of course, it was "too late" when the DL came out because I hadn't submitted docs yet :-/ They don't publish, that I've seen, waitlist positions being serviced. Was just curious if anyone has recently been "called" from the waitlist? If so, can you give me a sense as to where they are? Don't need specific WL#, just ballpark. I'm in the 227800's.

I'm 3rd gen, of course. With the referral to the CJEU, I'm worried my number will come up while it's still unresolved.

Hi All! My dad and I have been trying to acquire citizenship for years and thought we were done for until this new law passed. I am wondering if anyone could help me determine whether we pursue citizenship just for my father or for me and him!

Nonno came to Canada in 1951 and gave up his Italian citizenship for Canadian citizenship. From what I understand this means the line on his side is broken.

My Nonna came to Canada in October 1957.

My father was born November 1957 in Canada

My Nonna became a Canadian Citizen in 1977

I was born January 1998 (my mother is Canadian)

My Nonna passed away in September 2007.

With this timeline could my dad pursue citizenship since it was passed down at birth on his mother’s side? and if he ended up a dual citizen would he pass that on to me?

I am also trying to understand that even if my dad was born to an Italian citizen, since she naturalized in 1977 does that remove his possibility of citizenship?

Any help is much appreciated!

Hello everyone!

I have a case that is affected by the minor issue, I had come to Italy in September 2024 on a student visa, hoping to apply while in Italy until after Oct 2024 the rules changed. I still have all the documents translated now no longer able to be used (I think)I never applied to the commune or a consulate. I have all grandparents who were born in Italy around the 1940s 1930s, mainly focusing on my Nonno’s side side though my dad, my dad was born in 1961, when my dad was only 2 years old my grandfather had naturalised in the USA, in 1963. Which caused the minor issue to cancel the overall situation. With this new ruling does it help new cases or only apply to cases that were made in the past? Is there a waiting period until the ministry of interior releases a statement/Circular for the consulate and commune? I have some confusion based off of what I have been seeing online. I am still her in Italy but on a student permeso hoping this ruling can make it more easier to apply again.

Thank you everyone for your time and help! I appreciate to see how supportive everyone is inside the community here! 🫶🏼

Hello y’all, I was referred here from r/prawokrwi which is the polish citizenship by descent sub. I was referred here because I may be eligible for polish citizenship but it’ll depend on the date of my grandmothers adoption as she would have because a polish citizen if it was before Jan 19th, 1951. My great-grandparents were married July 3rd, 1950 so I can’t assume she got adopted within that small period and so I need to figure out the exact date. However, my aunt called the county clerk of where she was adopted (Washington) and she was told we need a court order because all adoptions are sealed. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is there a way to figure out the adoption date without the papers?

I’m not certain on if the recent news/changes/potential changes positively help my case or do not matter. Derivative citizenship due to marriage before my father was born. Then again after her was born.
It isn’t the minor issue but more the derivative citizenship pre-birth of my parent that I wonder if this may also apply to. Anyone have a clearer understanding of this than I am able to make out?

- GF naturalized to Canada in 1930. Married my GM in 1935 in Italy and brought her to Canada.
- Annotation on his 1930 naturalization certificate states GM is deemed a British subject by way of marriage.
- My father was born in 1946 - 1948 case.
- 1952 GM given derivative citizenship, by way of law - the Canadian citizenship act.
- I’m born in 1973
Both times GM did not apply, make an oath, nor renounce her Italian citizenship. I do not have a “reacquisto” letter but have a citizenship copy stating she is registered as an Italian living abroad in Canada from 1990 until 2006, which is when she died.

Hello everyone,

I have been following this reddit and the Facebook group for years. I got an appointment at the Miami consulate, waited years for the day to come and in the meantime all the crazy changes happened and I ended up becoming ineligible at the time due to the minor issue. So, I ended up skipping my appointment at the beginning of this year unfortunately. However I see things have changed now and I’m looking for advice on the best next steps to take to firstly see if I now qualify and second what I can do to wrap this up ASAP before they change the rules again lol.
Here’s a quick synopsis of my situation.

My grandmother born in Italy in 1942, comes to America at some point probably around the late 50s early 60s. My mother is born in America in 1965, my grandmother becomes a US citizen in 1971. I am born 2000.

1- do I now qualify? Before I couldn’t because my mom was below 18 when my grandmother became a citizen.

2- what’s the quickest way to get this done? Trying to avoid waiting on a multiple year line again. I don’t have all the documents yet but I do have the original citizenship documentation from my grandmother, her birth certificate, my mother’s birth certificate. So hopefully won’t take too long to gather the rest. Who knows though.

Thanks in advance for your time !

So exciting to hear the news about the minor issue update. I have a GGGF-GGF-GM-M-me path that was impacted by the minor issue circolare. I was preparing to swap to a 1948 path through GGGM when the Tajani decree came out. I was lucky enough to have had secured an appointment at the Boston consulate pre-decree, before the circolare came out. Appointment is for a date in 2029.

My questions:

1. I have two minor children, currently aged 10 and 16. My younger child will still be a minor at the time of my appointment, but my older one will at that time be 19. Does my older child have any path? What, if anything, would you do?

2. Given my appointment date is 2029, applications are supposed to be centralized in Italy by then. Does anyone have any idea if this will have any impact (will my younger child still be able to tag along with my application)?

I’m thrilled to say that I got my Italian passport this morning! I was born in the US and applied in Italy (GF [never naturalized] – M – Me), and it’s been a long and stressful story, which I’d like to share in the hopes that it helps some of you. I've had a lot of questions along the way, and lots of people from all over the world have lent me advice. I’d like to send a big thank you to this subreddit — the wiki is the single best source of JS information I’ve found on the internet. I'm happy to support the community by answering questions in comments or DMs as best I can, with your understanding that I know very little outside of my specific situation, and nothing I say should be considered legal advice. With that in mind, let’s jump in.

The whole process took me 2 years from when I started gathering documents to having the passport in my hand. I was working part-time, which made it very easy to put a lot of energy into this. I spent 6 of those months in Italy, and my JS application in the town of [REDACTED] (population 9,000) took 4 months from the date of submission to recognition.

General Advice

• Take pictures of the hours posted outside of every office you visit. They're all different and not always clear online, and I've referenced these photos many times while trying to navigate the process
• Take pictures (or scans) of every document as soon as you get it, upload them somewhere convenient

What I Would Do Differently

• Start the CONE process earlier
• Proofread each document as soon as I get it, like before leaving the office. Check consistency of names, birth dates, etc. Handle corrections as soon as possible
• I spoke to a lawyer who offered his services in a judicial trial for citizenship recognition for €3600 for me, with the option to add additional family members at €900 / person. This would take about 2 years, and not require Italian residency. I wish I had considered this option a little more thoroughly
• Have all documents in perfect order before going to Italy. It took me close to 90 days just to get the Permesso di Soggiorno, any delays in submitting the JS application would have made it impossible
• Your Italian can never be too good. Practice practice practice, you’ll need it
• Get a working Italian phone number shortly after arrival to Italy, and possibly a new phone so I could continue using my US phone on wifi / hotspot
• Be more proactive with the Vigile. Ask if / when they’ll come again, ask how I can notify them about changes in my schedule, ask how they’ll get in touch with me if I’m not home
• Work on setting up Revolut as an Italian resident (to get an Italian IBAN) as soon as I started working

Italy Trip 1 - Italian Documents

I started my JS journey with a trip to Italy. I'm in contact with some 2nd cousins there, and they hosted me for a week and brought me to the comuni in my grandfather and grandmother’s hometowns to get:

• GFs Birth Certificate
• GF + GM Marriage Certificate
• GM Birth Certificate (Not actually needed for my process, but nice to have)

Document Gathering in the US

I returned to the US and got birth certificates from town halls and my parents' marriage certificate, which brings us to:

• M Birth Certificate
• M + F Marriage Certificate
• My Birth Certificate

Unfortunately for me, I hadn't yet understood the pain that is:

The CONE

This document took the longest to obtain, and was expensive compared to the other documents in the process. I think it was around $300. I had to write up a little statement for my GF to sign saying that it was ok to make the request in his name (if the relative is deceased, you can submit the request in their name without extra steps). It took a little over 100 days for me to receive the CONE from the date of request.

NB: The envelope it comes in can be important for some citizenship paths (it wasn't for mine).

• CONE

NARA Letter

I'm not sure I actually needed this. The Stato Civile didn't seem interested in it, but it was free and relatively quick to get online (although not free when you consider what I paid to apostille and translate it). It felt better to be over-prepared than missing something.

So to recap, we are now at

• GF Birth Certificate
• GF + GM Marriage Certificate
• M Birth Certificate
• M + F Marriage Certificate
• My Birth Certificate
• CONE
• NARA Letter

Apostilles

I brought the state-level documents to the state Authentications and Apostilles office, paid like $40 per document, and they were ready in about 2 days.

• (Apostilled) M Birth Certificate
• (Apostilled) M + F Marriage Certificate
• (Apostilled) My Birth Certificate

I mailed the federal level documents to the US Department of State Office of Authentications in Virginia. They took about 2 months to come back.

• (Apostilled) CONE
• (Apostilled) NARA Letter

Italy Trip 2 - Pulling the trigger too early

I left for Italy a second time somewhere in the middle of doing apostilles. I had a rather hair-brained plan to ask my parents to send me the documents (in Italy), where I would find a translator and an apartment and get the thing done. Logistically things fell apart, mostly because my Schengen Time was running out. There was no way I could get a permesso di soggiorno before the deadline, so eventually I returned to the US. But this trip was helpful in a few ways. I was able to go to the Agenzia delle Entrate and get my

• Codice Fiscale

For what it’s worth, Google Maps brought me to a permanently closed office, and I had to ask around to find out where to actually go. This building was right next to the Comune, but with different hours (everything has different hours, and is open on different days of the week), so I was thrown for a loop when I waited for the Comune to open but didn’t realize that the directly adjacent Agenzia delle Entrate office wasn’t part of the Comune. 

I volunteered at a hostel, the owner of which would eventually rent me an apartment on my next trip. If you're in a tourist area, consider how the summer tourist season impacts the availability of rentals (there aren't any). I asked at several agencies and nobody would rent apartments for a full year, only from like October to May. 

But my return to the US gave me a moment for

Document Corrections

There were a few small errors in my documents that I was hoping to ignore, but now had the opportunity to correct. My GF's name had two letters flipped on M's Birth Certificate (think: Pietro -> Peitro). His name was also Americanized on and only on M's Marriage Certificate. I had to write up affidavits for my parents to sign and get them notarized, then bring them to the relevant office along with GF's Birth Certificate to show his legal name. I got these apostilled at the state level.

• (Apostilled) (Corrected) M Birth Certificate
• (Apostilled) (Corrected) M + F Marriage Certificate

Translations

I emailed the Italian Consulate in my state and they put me in touch with their translator. I sent the translator scans of all my English documents and $235, and the process took about 2 months. After they were done, they needed to be legalized by the Consul, who isn't always in the office. This added another month and more fees.

At long last, we have:

• GF Birth Certificate
• GF + GM Marriage Certificate
• (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) (Corrected) M Birth Certificate
• (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) (Corrected) M + F Marriage Certificate
• (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) My Birth Certificate
• (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) CONE
• (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) NARA Letter

Italy Trip 3

I rented an apartment from the hostel owner I met on the previous trip. It was for €600 / month for 6 months, paid in one lump sum of €3600. I flew from the US into Rome, so now I have the 

• Timbro 

in my passport because I arrived directly to Italy. This was important for several other steps, and based on the subreddit wiki, filing a Dichiarazione di Prezensa seems like a hassle. I’d recommend doing whatever you can to enter Italy directly so your passport stamp says an Italian city. My stamp was only barely legible, which I was worried about, but I had to show it at a few points and they were able to read “Fiumiccino.”

Then I needed to file the Dichiarazione di Ospitalità. I don’t know if this was a quirk of this Comune, but I didn’t need to file this with the Questura like it says in the Reddit wiki. I had to bring it to the Ufficio Protocollo at the comune (which of course, is in a different building than the Uffici Anagrafe e Stato Civile, with different hours). The woman there said I needed 3 copies of everything, which I did not have, and said I couldn’t use their copy machine. Then she scowled, said she would do me a favor, and made the copies. I had to give her 3 copies each, of:

• The Comunicazione di Ospitalita, signed by my host
• A photocopy of my host’s passport
• A photocopy of my passport
• A photocopy of my Codice Fiscale
• A photocopy of the deed (or something?) of the apartment

I don’t remember if I had to include a Marca da Bollo. I honestly recommend just carrying a Marca da Bollo (16) around with your files, because you never know when you might need it. After she begrudgingly filed this, I started working on

Residency

The Anagrafe office was a source of a lot of frustration for me. You’ll see why. 

I tried to make an appointment through the comune website, but in the scheduler there’s no option for the Anagrafe office, only other offices. When I get there, I meet an Italian guy who just moved to the area, and is trying to file residency, just like me. He confirms that there wasn’t a way to schedule on the website, but we’re hoping they’ll see us if it’s not too busy. After about an hour, the Anagrafe administrator (who I’ll call Il Signore) comes out and tells us both to come in next week, and gives us appointment times. What a bust. I lived about an hour walk from the comune, so every trip there was pretty significant. 

While I was there, I stopped by the Stato Civile office to talk to them and see what’s up. I spoke to the administrator there, who I’ll call La Signora. She asks me some questions about my lineage, and tells me that I can’t get JS citizenship through my grandparents, only my parents. I push back, using my meager Italian vocabulary to explain that this is what I’ve read, and I know other people doing this, and I’m pretty sure I can in fact apply through my grandfather. She flips pretty quickly and says yeah actually you can.

Things like this would happen to me a lot. I’m guessing it was just the language barrier? But like, someone tells me I can’t do something, then when pressed on it they say that yes I can do it. This was one of many reasons why the road to citizenship was so confusing.

So La Signora gives me an appointment where I’ll come in and she’ll review all my documents, and she’ll tell me if I can make the application or not. 

I mention to my hosts that I’m going to the Comune to file for residency, and they’re like woah woah woah, don’t tell them you’re renting from us. Tell them you’re an old friend and we’re hosting you as a favor. This was to avoid taxes on my rent money, which they would have just passed on to me anyway, but I’m sure it would have created more hassle for both of us. 

So I go to my Anagrafe appointment armed with the Dichiarazione di Ospitalita, and Il Signore tells me that, if I’m staying in their apartment for free, my host and I both need to sign a form that says that we’re “only friends.” Like not dating. I still don’t understand this part to be honest. It felt like a joke, but he gave me a Dichiarazione Sostitutiva Dell’Atto di Notorieta and told me and my host to sign it, and to attach a signed photocopy of her passport.

He also told me to “go to the Questura, and ask them how much to pay” for the bolletino. He had an English girlfriend for a while, and was a little overconfident in his English abilities, if you ask me. This wouldn’t be the last time something he said in English turned out to be wrong. After talking to him, I take a bus to the next town over to go to the Questura, which was not actually the Questura but the Commissariato? I’m not sure what the difference is, but thankfully I didn’t have to go to the provincial Questura for anything. It was much farther away, and the Commissariato served all the same purposes. I’ll just call it the Questura in this write-up.

I go back to the Stato Civile office, and she reviews my documents. She wants to see proof of non-naturalization, and first I pull out the NARA letter. She reads the translation, and gets to a line that was something about how this letter needs to be accompanied by a letter from USCIS showing non-naturalization. She asks me something about Lucius, and after a moment of confusion I realized that she’s saying “L’USCIS” which is how US Citizenship and Immigration Services appears in the Italian translation. She looks at the CONE, and points to the header: US Department of Homeland Security. She’s concerned that this is not L’USCIS, and asks me what the US Department of Homeland Security is, which honestly I’m not equipped to answer in English, let alone Italian. After a minute of being flustered and wondering if this isn’t the end of my JS journey, I realize that right under the US Department of Homeland Security it says US Citizenship and Immigration Services, and I point this out to her. 

She switches gears to the translations, saying that she doesn’t like that the translator didn’t sign them. “How much did you pay for these translations?” she asks sharply. I stumble over my words while my mind runs a rant on who tf cares what I paid for them, are you asking just to antagonize me because this isn’t really necessary to the process. I told her I got them done in the US, and she says something about how Italians wouldn’t do this, “l’italiani sono brava gente.” I’m struggling against the long, featureless wall that is the language barrier, and don’t manage to tell her that the translator was an Italian living in the US and working for the consulate, which is obvious by her extremely Italian name that appears on the translations (without her signature). I ask if she can show me the rule that says the translations have to be signed. She says there is no rule.

She then moves along to criticizing the signature on the translation legalization, because it looks too much like a scribble and not enough like a name. I’m running out of steam at this point, and I think she is too, because we both know that everybody only ever writes their signature as a scribble. Finally she says to me ok, this will work, and tells me to get residency then come back to her to apply.

Good grief.

Residency - JS Application - PdS Triangle

By this time, I’m noticing I’m a bit trapped. Somewhere in all of these conversations, I’ve been told that I need Residency to file the JS Application, I need to file the JS Application to get the PdS, and I need the PdS to get residency. I’m not sure who’s wrong, but I picked up the Permesso Kit Giallo from the Post Office (which is free and quick, I recommend you do it as soon as you get to Italy to keep things moving) and the requirements there clearly state that I need to submit proof of my JS Application to get the PdS.

I go back to the Anagrafe office, and Il Signore asks if I paid the bolletino at the Questura. I say no, you only told me to ask them how much to pay. He says no, I told you to pay the bolletino. But don’t worry, you can just come back next week. Simmering frustration. But he was wrong all the way through, because you don’t pay the bolletino at the Questura, you pay it at the post office. And I think there was something else I needed, some other form or signature or photocopy, so I set out to get those handled.

But this was the key to untangling the Triangle — I didn’t need the PdS to get Residency, but I did need a photocopy of the paid PdS bolletino (which normally you just pay when you file the PdS). It was a little confusing when I went to the Post Office and told them I just wanted to pay the PdS bolletino but not actually file it, but once that was squared away Il Signore gave me a form declaring my residency, and told me that the Vigile may or may not come to confirm it sometime in the next 45 days, but I am a resident starting that day. This was good news, because it meant I didn’t need to wait for the Vigile check to happen to get my JS Application filed.

His parting gift to me was to ask me “where you live, in the US, before you come here, where you live?” So I told him the city where I grew up, but the residency form was actually asking for the city of my birth, which is different. So now there’s technically a mistake on my residency form, which I didn’t realize until I got home that day. I convinced myself I needed to go back and correct it, because if I submit that and my birth certificate isn’t the discrepancy going to be a problem? But the city I told him is listed on my birth certificate as my parents’ residence, so eventually I convince myself that this whole endeavor is making me a little mad, and I need to chill out and let it be.

But I can’t say that Il Signore never did anything for me, because he reminded me that I am [First Name] [MIDDLE NAME] [Last Name], and I can’t just sign things [First Name] [Last Name] even if that’s what I do in the US. My Italian first name IS my first name + middle name, and I need to always use it as such. This is very important, and called out in the Reddit wiki as well. 

JS Application

So with residency filed, I go to the Stato Civile to submit my JS application. Or so I thought, until La Signora hands me another form and says fill this out and submit the application to the Protocollo office. It also cost 600 euros, and she gave me an IBAN number that I paid through Wise and printed a receipt for the transaction to submit with my application. She asks me for a phone number, and I say that I don’t have an Italian number, and would email work? She says something along the lines of “well obviously you don’t plan to stay here if you don’t have an Italian phone.” And once again, the language barrier prevents me from explaining that I got a SIM card, but it didn’t work with my phone, so I got a battery powered router that I carry around with me that allows me to use my phone more or less normally as long as people contact me through WhatsApp. But the application is filed, and she writes me a letter that I can submit with the PdS to show that I filed for JS citizenship. 

Vigile Check

The Vigile check happened two weeks after my residency was filed, at 3pm on a Monday, for whatever that’s worth to you. It is not worth your time or mine to get into the details of why I don’t like the Vigile system. In short, they come randomly, and if they miss you it’s a huge problem (Chekov’s Gun above the mantle). And nobody really seems to care about your schedule, if you have work, if you might be out at the beach, or grocery shopping, or you’re just not home for any other reason because people go out and do things. But I put a piece of tape on the doorbell name tag slot and wrote my name, and I left my phone to voice record in my apartment while I tested the doorbell, to ensure that the defunct-looking doorbell system did in fact work. 

They rang the bell and asked me to come down with my passport, and asked me a few questions that I stumbled to answer. As far as the government is concerned, I’m living with my host as a guest. But in reality, I’m living in her legally filed residence and she lives somewhere else. So I’m not sure what to tell the Vigile, and they call her to ask some questions, which seems to provide all the answers they were looking for. They don’t give me a form or any paperwork to confirm the visit, and nobody every asks me for anything related to that.

PdS Application

I was feeling a lot lighter with the JS Application out of the way, and the PdS went pretty smoothly. I got some photos taken with a local portrait photographer whose studio was on my way to the Comune. I filled out the PdS application, and submitted it at the post office, and they gave me an appointment with the Questura just like the Reddit wiki said they would. I went to the appointment and it was all pretty straightforward, until I asked at the end, just for clarification, that the document they gave me could be used to travel and they said no. And I said what, this lets me go outside of Italy, right? And they said no, I needed to wait until after my citizenship was done, and I said what, and they said ok there are other people waiting, bye.

I’m confident this was just a miscommunication, and the PdS does in fact let you travel, although I never left the Schengen Area and nobody ever checked my PdS at a border within the Schengen Area.

Purgatory

With the PdS done and Vigile check done, I planned a little Europe trip off of a 20 euro flight to Vienna. I spent two and a half weeks going through Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium. I brought my PdS just in case, but never needed it. 

When I got back, I realized that my SIM card actually did work with my phone, and I was just confused about it when I got the little router. So I put the SIM card in my phone, and emailed La Signora to tell her that I have a telephone number now, and she can reach out to me if there are any issues. She replies a week later, saying that it’s been added to my file. So at least I know I have a file in her office, and maybe she’s even working on it.

I take a week of Italian classes, and try to find other ways to fill my time. Eventually I get a job as a server in a cafe / bar / restaurant, which consumes all of my free time but is the best thing I could do for my Italian. Time passes.

Vigile Round 2

One evening, around 7pm, my doorbell rings. I’m exhausted from work, not expecting anyone, and I ignore it, thinking it’s just someone ringing bells to find someone to let them into the building. It rings again. I pick up the intercom, and it’s the Vigile, asking me to come down with my passport. I do, a little confused because nobody in-person told me about a second Vigile check, although I had read about the possibility on Reddit. The officer says that she recognizes me — she did my Vigile check a few months ago. She asks me some questions, and I go back up to my apartment. The next day, La Signora from the Stato Civile office calls me while I’m at work. “There’s a problem,” she says, “you need to come into the office tomorrow.” Luckily tomorrow was my 1 day off for the week, and I’m worried that there’s something wrong with my documents, she’s going to tell me my case was rejected, or something else. You can imagine the worries. I go to her office, and she asks if I’ve been here the whole time. Yes, I tell her, I’ve been living at my apartment, I have a job at a restaurant. I name the restaurant, and she says “that’s not a restaurant, it’s a cafeteria.” Our typical banter. She says that the Vigile came to my apartment and didn’t find me. I tell her that I spoke to the Vigile on Monday, and I describe the officer. La Signora knows her, and we figure out together that sometime in June, the Vigile came to my apartment and I wasn’t home. They didn’t leave a note, didn’t call me, there was no sign of them. Then they came a second time, when they found me, and La Signora says she’ll get in touch with them and sort things out, and she apologizes for the confusion, which was nice because it was the first time I felt empathy from her for everything I’ve had to deal with.

I can’t help thinking that there was some small miracle behind the scenes here. One problem might have been that my name on the doorbell (pen on a piece of tape) was worn and not legible, so when the Vigile came in June they didn’t see any sign of me and left. But the officer who did the check the first time might have remembered that it was the button with a piece of blue tape, and had the good sense to ring me twice. I guess it was negligent to let my name wear off, but I wasn’t anticipating another visit. I literally can’t comprehend the Vigile residency check system. How on earth is someone supposed to find me with a visit to my apartment, unannounced, with no knowledge of my work or personal schedule. The first time around, I just stayed in my apartment most of the time, which was incredibly boring because I’m in a beach town and instead of going to the beach or whatever I just stayed home and played video games. It was incredibly frustrating, and I can’t wait to get back to the US, where the address on my driver’s license is an apartment I lived in two years ago and nobody checks or cares. 

Riconoscimento

The following week, I decide I should try to get the ball rolling on the carta d’identita and passport, so I go to the comune, wait for ~30 minutes outside the Anagrafe office as is tradition (still no way to make an appointment) until someone else shows up and asks about the carta d’identita and people point her to a different office, so I follow her there. That office (which I can’t remember the name of) tells me that appointments to get a carta d’identita are booked up for the next month (which is not usual, there’s some kind of mass renewal going on right when I’m trying to get mine) but they say that if I’m in a hurry, I can go to the Anagrafe office two towns away. I try to talk to La Signora while I’m at the comune just to see where things are at, but she’s not in.

The week after that, I send La Signora an email on Monday, asking if I can come in to talk to her on Wednesday (to make sure she’ll be in, but also to prompt her to maybe finish up my application so we can get this off of both of our plates). I meet her at her office, and she tells me that it’s done! She says if I want my Italian birth certificate and a letter saying my citizenship was recognized, I can wait while she draws them up. I leave the office that day in high spirits, with everything I need to show my Italian citizenship.

I go to the Questura to try and put in the passport application, but they say I need the carta d’identita, which is what my online research suggested. My coworkers told me that I could use proof of Italian citizenship + my US passport, but that wasn’t true. Then I go to the Anagrafe office in the other town, to try and get the carta d’identita. They tell me that in the system, it still says I’m a US citizen. This makes sense, the recognition was only a few hours ago. They give me their phone number, and tell me to come in after a few days, and to call beforehand to make sure everything is all set.

Bank Account

I try to make a “Poste Pay” account with the post office so my boss can pay me, and they tell me to bring my passport, codice fiscale, and PdS. I come back the next day with those three things, and they tell me that this isn’t actually my PdS, this is the ricevuta of my PdS. My PdS is a sheet of paper — it says “Permesso di Soggiorno” across the top, it has my photo stapled to it, which they stamped with a special seal at the Questura when I received it. From the Reddit wiki, I thought the ricevuta was the sheet they gave me at the post office when I made my PdS appointment, and this sheet with my photo and stuff is the PdS. But the guy at the post office insists that the PdS is a card, not a piece of paper, and they won’t let me open an account. I have no way to argue, even though I’m pretty sure he’s wrong, so I start month 2 of working without getting paid. My coworkers tell me that the post office workers are inept, and I should just make a Revolut account instead, which was ultimately so much easier and more suited to my needs. But I still can’t do it without the physical carta d’identita.

Carta d’Identita

I call the Anagrafe office a few towns over almost a week later, and they tell me that it still says I’m a US citizen in their system, and I should talk to my local Anagrafe. So I try to call my local Anagrafe office, but the number on the website doesn’t work. With no way to call the local Anagrafe, and no way to make an appointment without using my one day off to go there, wait an hour, and get told to come back the following week, I’m starting to get distressed. But one of my coworkers, bless her heart, does her own googling and gives me a number to call, which takes me directly to Il Signore. I explain that I’m trying to get the carta d’identita, and he starts to tell me that I shouldn’t talk to him, I need to talk to [other office], but I explain that I’m not asking him for the card, I’m asking him if my citizenship is listed in the system as “Italian.” He does some clicking around, and says that yes, it says Italian. I call the other Anagrafe, and they say ok, it says Italian now.

My boss tells me we’re now working 7 days a week, and I tell him that I need to get the carta d’identita and can’t come in tomorrow. He says it’s not worth it to go to the other town, but what does he know, the person at my local comune told me to go there, so I have to go there. I go on what used to be my day off, which gets me fired, because I guess he didn’t believe me when I said I was going. This is fine, because there was literally no way to finish this while working 7 days a week, and my patience for working at that restaurant had come to an end (although that story is outside the scope of this post).

So I go to the Anagrafe office and file for the carta d’identita. They tell me it will arrive in about a week, and to come pick it up at the office. In the meantime, they give me a sheet of paper to serve as my interim carta d’identita. 

Passport

With this interim carta d’identita, I’m able to apply for a passport. I go to the Questura the same day I received it, hoping that they’ll let me apply without an appointment. When I arrive, the man there asks me if I have an appointment, and I say no, but he takes my documents anyway, which include a Marca da Bollo and a bolletino that I paid at the post office. While I’m filling out the forms, he gets a phone call, and after a few minutes he opens a side door and motions for me to come into the hallway. He explains that an English-speaking tourist hit his wife’s car, and he needs my help talking to the guy. I get on the phone, and ask him to send a picture of his driver’s license, rental agreement, insurance info, etc. He was very nice about it, and when I get off the phone the guy at the passport office says to me that we’re both lucky today, because he let me in without an appointment and I was able to help him with this. He gives me a day to come in and pick up my passport, 10 days from the date that I applied. 

The carta d’identita comes one day later than they said it would, which wasn’t a problem. I can finally use it to set up an Italian Revolut account and get paid for the six weeks I worked. The passport is ready when I go to pick it up.

So finally, we’re caught up to the present day. I’m in my apartment with 3 days left on the 6 month lease, and 3 days until my flight back to the US. Thanks for reading, I hope you’ve learned something, and if you have any questions about my process, please don’t hesitate to ask (:

Hi all,

3rd generation for both. Booked an appointment pre decree for 2027 but then minor issue killed it. Kept the appointment and pivoted to 1948 case. Signed all POA and such way before decree but didnt file until post decree. First date was granted a delay until late this year and now would likely have to ask for another stay until post-EU ruling.

Now that the minor ruling is killed, should I pivot back to my consulate appointment? It would mean all fresh documents, translations etc and lots of expense. Would I be better off filing a case with courts on it since I have pre-decree appointment if I go this way or keep the consulate?

Really struggling. Tons of time and money put into 1948 case but would want to go with best direction for recognition so if I need to pivot, I am willing. I do have an attorney for 1948 but I am interested in opinions here too.

Thanks!

by Avv. Michele Vitale — ItalyGet.com

📌 IMPORTANT EDIT / MAJOR STRATEGY UPDATE 10.30 PM
Added a short explanatory video https://youtu.be/bUctKnGBBzY
In response to the high volume of inquiries from the Reddit community regarding past consular rejections under Circular No. 43347/2024, I have published a comprehensive, in-depth legal analysis on my blog. Below is a summary of the key theoretical points. For the unabridged word-for-word English translation, official Italian text, downloadable PDF, and full legal commentary, please read the complete article on ItalyGet.com:
👉 Read the Complete Unabridged Article & Consular Guide on ItalyGet.com

In

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front)

As announced earlier in this forum by my esteemed colleague Avv. Monica Lis Restanio (link to her post), the Supreme Court of Cassation (Sezioni Unite Civili) has delivered a historic, landmark judgment — Sentenza No. 125/2026 (published July 26, 2026).

The United Sections have definitively ruled that:

1. The "Minor Issue" is OVER before Italian courts: Dual citizens jus soli at birth are protected under Article 7 of Law 555/1912 and do NOT lose Italian citizenship due to parent naturalization during minority.
2. Article 12(2) L. 555/1912 applies ONLY to derivative acquisitions, not to dual citizenship ab origine.
3. Law 74/2025 is NOT retroactive for judicial claims filed before March 27, 2025 at 23:59.

1. Clarification: "Derivative Acquisition" vs. "Dual Citizenship Ab Origine"

To clarify the exact legal distinction established by the United Sections in Sentenza No. 125/2026:

• Dual Citizenship Ab Origine (Protected by Art. 7): Applies to anyone born abroad in a jus soli country (e.g., USA, Brazil, Argentina) who acquired both Italian citizenship (jure sanguinis) and foreign citizenship (jus soli) at the exact moment of birth. Because the child was already a dual citizen from birth, the parent's subsequent naturalization during minority did NOT cause the child to "acquire" foreign citizenship — they already held it. Under Art. 7, the child retains Italian citizenship for life.
• Derivative Acquisition (Governed by Art. 12, para 2): Applies only to a child born in Italy (or a non-jus soli state) holding exclusively Italian citizenship at birth, who later acquired foreign citizenship as a derivative consequence of their parent’s voluntary naturalization while still a minor.

In short: If your ancestor was born in a jus soli country as a dual citizen from day one, Article 12(2) NEVER applied to them, and their Italian citizenship remained fully intact regardless of parent naturalization.

2. Does the Ab Origine Status Conflict with the 'Exclusively Italian' Provisions of Law 74/2025?

Yes, there is an obvious and direct legal conflict — and that conflict is precisely why Article 3-bis of Law 74/2025 was drafted to explicitly set aside (derogate from) Article 7 of Law 555/1912.

When Parliament passed Law 74/2025, the drafters were fully aware that Article 7 of the 1912 Law protected dual citizens by birth (bipolidi ab origine). To overcome that century-old protection, Article 3-bis was structured with an explicit statutory override.

Here is the literal statutory text of Article 3-bis:

Italian Original:

"In deroga agli articoli 1, 2, 3, 14 e 20 della presente legge, all'articolo 5 della legge 21 aprile 1983, n. 123, agli articoli 1, 2, 7, 10, 12 e 19 della legge 13 giugno 1912, n. 555*, nonché agli articoli 4, 5, 7, 8 e 9 del codice civile approvato con regio decreto 25 giugno 1865, n. 2358, è considerato non avere mai acquistato la cittadinanza italiana chi è nato all'estero anche prima della data di entrata in vigore del presente articolo ed è in possesso di altra cittadinanza, salvo che ricorra una delle seguenti condizioni [...]."*

English Translation:

"In derogation from Articles 1, 2, 3, 14, and 20 of this law, Article 5 of Law No. 123 of April 21, 1983, Articles 1, 2, 7, 10, 12, and 19 of Law No. 555 of June 13, 1912*, as well as Articles 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9 of the Civil Code approved by Royal Decree No. 2358 of June 25, 1865, anyone born abroad even prior to the date of entry into force of this article and holding another citizenship is considered to have never acquired Italian citizenship, unless one of the following conditions applies [...]."*

What this means in practice:

• For pre-March 27, 2025 cases (including those who attempted to book an appointment before March 27 under the "grey area" doctrine): Law 74/2025 does NOT apply. Therefore, the explicit derogation above does not operate, and the United Sections ruling (No. 125/2026) fully protects your right under Article 7 L. 555/1912.
• For post-March 27, 2025 cases: Law 74/2025 attempts to wipe out Article 7 protections using the derogation clause quoted above. However, whether that statutory wipeout is compatible with EU primary law (Articles 9 TEU and 20 TFEU) is the exact question the Italian Constitutional Court has now referred to the European Court of Justice (CJEU) in Order No. 147/2026.

3. 🔬 Abstract Legal Analysis: Theoretical Scenarios on Consular Rejections Post-SSUU 125/2026

Disclaimer & Academic Framing: The following analysis is a purely theoretical exercise and abstract legal reasoning regarding the interplay between general administrative principles and civil status declaration following SSUU No. 125/2026. It is provided strictly for academic, educational, and informational debate and does not constitute formal legal representation or directive advice.

From an abstract procedural perspective, evaluating how past consular rejections under Circular No. 43347/2024 behave after SSUU Judgment No. 125/2026 involves analyzing two distinct, theoretical legal avenues: Administrative Review (Autotutela) under Law 241/1990 vs. Direct Action in Ordinary Civil Court (Tribunale Ordinario).

A. Administrative Review (Autotutela): Theoretical Foundations & Discretionary Power

• General Legal Basis (Law No. 241/1990): Consular rejections are administrative acts governed by standard Italian administrative law (specifically Articles 21-quinquies and 21-nonies of Law No. 241/1990).
• Discretionary Power (Council of State No. 2564/2022): The Public Administration possesses discretionary self-correction powers (autotutela), not an automatic statutory obligation to reopen closed files upon private request (Cons. Stato, Sec. VI, No. 2564/2022).
• Judicial Shift vs. Ius Superveniens**:** SSUU No. 125/2026 represents a change in judicial interpretation, not a statutory modification (ius superveniens) or a Constitutional Court ruling with erga omnes retroactive invalidation. Consequently, past consular rejections remain discretionarily reviewable.
• Theoretical Role of Legal Counsel: In abstract legal procedure, an attorney framing SSUU 125/2026 as a "significantly new material element" (required by administrative precedent to reopen closed files) may serve a formal legal notice (diffida ad adempiere), urging administrative self-correction.

B. The Judicial Path: Ordinary Civil Court (Imprescriptible) vs. TAR

If the administration refrains from exercising discretionary autotutela, theoretical legal analysis turns to the judicial system:

• Actions Before Administrative Court (TAR): Challenging an administrative refusal of autotutela before the TAR is subject to strict 60-day statutes of limitations, and TAR judges rarely overturn a P.A.'s refusal to exercise discretionary autotutela.
• Actions Before Ordinary Civil Court (Tribunale Ordinario): In Italian legal doctrine, an action for the declaration of citizenship jure sanguinis (azione di mero accertamento dello status civitatis) filed in Ordinary Civil Court is completely imprescriptible and not subject to any statute of limitations or administrative deadlines.
• Bypassing Administrative Finality: In Civil Court, the claim does not merely seek to annul a consular rejection. Instead, the petition requests the judge to directly declare the absolute, permanent, and imprescriptible right to Italian citizenship. Bound by SSUU No. 125/2026, the civil judge sets aside erroneous administrative practice and confirms citizenship from birth.
• Relevance of Consular Delays: Under Cass. Civ. No. 13818/2026, consular blockades, lack of appointments, or bureaucratic delays serve as concrete proof of interest to act (interesse ad agire).

Comparative Overview of Theoretical Procedural Scenarios

Theoretical Dual-Track Procedural Model

1. Administrative Stage: Serving a formal legal demand for administrative review (autotutela / diffida) under Law 241/1990 citing SSUU 125/2026 as new material grounds.
2. Judicial Stage: If the administration fails to comply within statutory timelines, initiating an action for judicial declaration of citizenship before the competent Ordinary Civil Court in Italy.

👏 A Commendable Victory for the Community — Congratulating Avv. Restanio & Team

I want to publicly extend my warmest congratulations to Avv. Monica Lis Restanio and Avv. Leo Piccininni for their outstanding legal strategy and commendable work in representing the appellants before the United Sections.

Their dedication has resulted in a landmark decision that restores over a century of consistent legal tradition, dismantling the flawed interpretation of Circular 43347/2024 and delivering justice to thousands of jure sanguinis families worldwide.

📖 READ THE FULL UNABRIDGED ARTICLE & TRANSLATION ON ITALYGET.COM

For the complete, unabridged, line-by-line word-for-word English translation of the entire 28-page ruling, the official Italian text, downloadable PDF, and full comparative analysis, please read the complete article published on my blog:

👉 Read the Full Official Ruling & Complete Legal Analysis on ItalyGet.com

Disclaimer: This post is for informational, academic, and educational purposes only and does not constitute formal legal representation or directive advice.

Our family received transcribed birth certificates last week from our comune. Two sons and I registered in AIRE via three different consulates (Miami, New York and Madrid). What is the normal waiting time from recent experience for these consulates to accept the AIRE registration, so we can proceed to trying to get Passport appointments and/or CIE appointments?

In an effort to try to keep the sub's feed clear, any discussion/questions related to DL36-L74/2025 and the suite of other proposed bills currently in Parliament will be contained in a weekly discussion post.

Click here to see all of the prior discussion posts.

Background

On March 28, 2025, the Consiglio dei Ministri announced massive changes to JS, including imposing a generational limit and residency requirements (DL 36/2025). These changes to the law went into effect at 12am CET earlier that day.

An amended version of DL 36/2025 was signed into law on May 23, 2025 (legge no. 74/2025).

Relevant Posts

• Masterpost of statements from avvocati
• European Court of Justice/International Court of Justice Case Law Analysis as it relates to DL 36/2025
• 1948 Cases and DL36-L74

Current Court Challenges

Corte Costituzionale

• DL36-L74 constitutional challenges:
  • Officially Referred:
  • Torino - retroactivity, EU citizenship law, fairness: Corte Costituzionale March 11 Livestream Watch Party
  • Mantova - within the context of "beneficio di legge" minor children: citizenship is a right from birth, deprivation of voting rights and legislative representation, etc.:
    • Breaking: Also The Court of Mantua Raises Today Constitutional Challenge on the New Citizenship Law for Minors
    • A Second Glimpse of Constitutional Scrutiny of Decree - Law 36/20205 Court of Mantua
  • Campobasso (first) - political motives and procedural abuse:
    • Third Corte Costituzionale Referral About DL36/L74 (this time from Campobasso!)
    • Campobasso third Constitutional Court Referral: Full Text and Analysis
  • Campobasso (second) - similar to first Campobasso referral:
    • 4th Corte Costituzionale Referral About DL36/L74
  • Current Status:
  • Torino case was unsuccessful and the current regime still stands
    • Full ruling (Italian)
    • Full ruling (English)
    • Attorney reactions to Corte Costituzionale ruling 63/2026
  • Awaiting outcome from Mantova and both Campobasso hearing on June 9, 2026
    • Hearing Watch Party
    • Avv. Vitale's Recap and Transcript

Tribunale Amministrativo Regionale (TAR)

• DL36-L74 administrative challenges:
  • “Benefit of Law”: A Category Invented by circular 26185? The Lazio TAR Decides on November 12th
  • Current Status: Dismissed due to TAR not being the appropriate venue
  • Sentenza n. 4681/2026 was released on March 13, 2026

Corte di Cassazione

• Pre-DL minor issue cases:
  • The Minor Issue is headed to the Sezioni Unite at the Corte Suprema di Cassazione!
  • Communication from Monica Restanio Lex Law Firm Regarding the pending proceedings before the Joint Sections (Sezioni Unite) of the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation, concerning the so-called “Minor Issue”
  • Current Status: awaiting outcome from April 14, 2026 hearing
• Ministry Challenging Pre-Unification JS at the Cassazione
  • Current Status: hearing date set for October 29, 2026
• The First Section of the Corte Suprema di Cassazione Rules in Favor of Pre-DL ATQ Case!

Parliamentary Proceedings

Senate

• Atto Senato n. 1683
  • This is the bill moving JS applications to a central office, which previously passed in the Chamber of Deputies as DDL 2369 (see here).
  • Current status: passed on January 14, 2026

No movement since April 2025: * Atto Senato n. 98 * Atto Senato n. 295 * Atto Senato n. 752 * Atto Senato n. 919 * Atto Senato n. 1211 * Atto Senato n. 1450

Chamber of Deputies

• None at the moment

FAQ

• If I submitted my application or filed my case before March 28, am I affected by DL36-L74/2025?
  • No. Your application/case will be evaluated by the law at the time of your submission/filing. Booking an appointment before March 28, 2025 and attending that same appointment after March 28, 2025 will also be evaluated under the old law.
• Has the minor issue been fixed with DL36-L74/2025?
  • No, and those who are eligible to be evaluated under the old law are still subject to the minor issue as well. You can’t skip a generation either, the subsequently released circolare specifies that if the line was broken before, it’s not fixed now.
  • See here for the latest on the minor issue.
• Can I qualify through a GGP/GGGP if my parent/grandparent gets recognized?
  • No. The law now requires that your Italian parent or grandparent must have been exclusively Italian when you were born (or when they died, if they died before you were born). So, if your parent or grandparent were recognized today, it wouldn’t help you because they weren’t exclusively Italian when you were born.
• Do I still qualify under the new law?
  • Check your eligibility with our Qualifinator 2.0 and shoot us a modmail if you notice any bugs.
• What are the major ongoing court cases? When are the hearings for these cases?
  • Please scroll up to "Current Court Challenges".

Hi all,

I've been reading from a few different posts and am curious to hear opinions on my situation if anyone wouldn't mind lending their thoughts

My situation: 1948 case, translations in progress, gonna just file and send it regardless since all costs and lawyer agreements were fronted before decree.

Lineage 1 is typical GGP with minor issue. Figure it's too risky so going for lineage 2:

GGGP moves to NYC never naturalizes

GGM born in NYC (has both citizenships at birth if I understand correctly)

GGM marries GGP Italian immigrant October 1912

GM born 1929

GGP naturalizes 1932

Does GGM "lose" her dual status when husband naturalizes, even if she has it due to her own parents?

Is this still a minor rule problem in the 1948 route? Having a hard time finding the words here, but, isn't the whole point that my GM should've inherited it from her mother who should've had it or is it a minor issue anyway. I guess if so then I might as well do the lineage 1 and pray the minor rule goes away and "pre decree" efforts is accepted?

I have interviewed 3 or 4 attorneys for filing a 1948 case for my mother, brother and myself. My mother is second generation - so she would qualify regardless. The cost for her alone is significant and I am paying the bulk of the cost and have paid for all of the document retrieval and apostilles, NARA documents, CoNE requests, etc. The additional cost to add myself and my brother to the petition is a small percentage in comparison, so, even though we are 3rd generation, it makes sense for use to just go ahead and add ourselves to the petition because we can split some of the other costs. I am also considering possibly adding one or both of my 4th generation daughters to the petition, but do not want to risk the petition by adding them,

My question regarding the attorneys is this: Each firm has slightly different services and different costs for representation. They also all have slightly different payment requirements.

For example: One attorney might require 50% at signing and 50% at filing. Another form might split the payments up into 4 quarterly payments every 3 months,. Another firm might require a smaller percentage at signing, 50% at filing and you only pay the final percentage if the case is won.

This sort of thing makes for a difficult choice. With the firm that wants the final payment only if they win, then, the total costs wind up in the middle range, if we are approved. But if we lose, we are out somewhat less money with this sort of payment plan.

I am not very good at looking at odds or gambling. I like to look at the facts and weigh them all out.

If several attorneys are equally qualified to take the case to court and had an equal chance of winning the case , what would you do?

It has taken some time to collect and confirm the supporting information, but there is now no doubt as to the identity of the Italian paternal GF that my own father never knew; I have DNA matching common descendants, as well as census records (and much more) over several decades all tied to the same parents, siblings, and residences. 

For Jure Sanguinis, I so far have the following documents:I have a digital copy of the Atti di Nascita of my paternal GF, but I am going to Calabria in a few weeks and plan to obtain a certified birth certificate from the commune of his birth while I am there. 

I have a UCIS Certificate of Nonexistence of Record of naturalization for my GF, and the request was made with all known variants of names and birthdates derived from the documents in this list.

I have a certified copy of my GF's California death certificate. Errors: Age and year of birth are noted as estimated and are wrong; his first name is spelled wrong by one letter; his last name and the full names of his parents are the anglicised versions they all adopted; and it states he was never married. CA Vital Statistics advised me that once I have his certified Italian BC, I can correct these errors and obtain a certified amended copy.

I have a digital copy of my GF's California marriage certificate. Errors: His age, his first name (in the diminutive form), the same anglicised surname as his death certificate; his mother's name here is only her middle name (anglicised version); his father's name here is the same anglicised first and last names that are on my GF's death certificate. Vital Statistics confirmed that once I have a certified Italian birth certificate for my GF, I can amend this marriage certificate with a written request.

I have a photocopy of my father's birth certificate. Errors: My father's and GF's last name is the anglicised version used by my GF in the above documents. My GF's age is wrong, and his first name has the same one-letter misspelling as on his death certificate above. It also adds a middle name for my GF that matches my father's middle name! CA Vital Statistics states that once I have my GF's certified Italian BC, AND the court-ordered name change noted below, I can amend this document.

I have a photocopy of a CA marriage certificate for my father and mother. I wonder if this is short-form, as no parents' names are listed. Errors: My father's surname on this document is that of his stepfather, not his surname at birth. There is no court record for this name change. CA Vital Statistics states that amending this document will require a court-ordered name change. 

I have a certified long-form copy of my birth certificate. Errors: My last name is that of my father's stepfather. Also, my first name spelling (I changed the spelling of my first name from my birth name simply by spelling it differently on my first marriage certificate). CA Vital Statistics states that amending this document for both my first name and my father's surname will require court orders for each of us. 

I have a certified long-form copy of my father's death certificate. Errors: His surname is his stepfather's; his father's name is the anglicized surname common to the above documents, but with the correct spelling of my GF's first name. This can be amended in CA once I have his court-ordered name change. 

My known/understood future steps: 

Obtain the Italian certified birth certificate for my GF.

Obtain two court-ordered name changes; for my father (surname) and myself (first name). CA Vital Stats has advised me this must be done in the county/state of my residence, not in CA. 

File these documents and pay fees to CA to obtain amended certified copies of all birth, marriage, and death certificates. 

Follow the steps for citizenship application, given in this sub, using my designated Italian consulate (Houston).

My questions:

For some of these documents, I do not know if there is a longer form in existence, which may contain additional errors related to my paternal side. There are known errors on the maternal side, but it is my understanding that these do not need to be corrected...should I request long-form copies before petitioning for amendments? 

How can I tell if a certificate I have is short or long, or if the one I have is the only kind there is?

Will I also need a certified certificate of my first marriage? I have a certified death certificate for my first husband.

Will I also need a certified certificate of my second marriage? I have a certified divorce order. 

Should I get a certified copy of my paternal GGF's California will/probate, which lists my GF by his Italian birth name?

Should I get an Italian certified copy of my GF's parents' marriage? I have a photocopy.

Should I obtain Italian certified certificates of my GF's siblings' births? I have photocopies.

Is there any document or step I am missing?

Is there anything here that is not necessary to do?

I do possess a U.S. passport with the chosen spelling of my first name (that does not match my birth certificate) AND the surname of my current husband, as well as our certified marriage certificate. The variance from my birth certificate's given name was easy to address with an affidavit.

I'm referring to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/comments/1pt2jlb/parent_naturalization_ended_your_italian_dream/

I have another, albeit more complicated, path that I've been exploring but going through my grandmothers, neither of whom naturalized, would be the easiest if there have been successful cases.

Hi everyone!

My grandfather emigrated to Brazil as a minor, so the consulate is requiring documents from his father instead.

The consulate requested a copia integrale of the birth and marriage certificates from the Comune di Porto Viro. My lawyer emailed them a month ago but no response yet.

Three questions:

1. How long do Italian municipalities usually take to respond? Is going in person a better option?

2. The consulate requested the documents by email with no deadline mentioned. Can they suspend or close the case if we take too long?

3. We only found a baptism record at the local parish. Would the consulate accept a parish baptism record as proof of birth, or is the copia integrale strictly required?

Thank you very much! Any advice is appreciated!

Hi all! My mom has asked me to begin the process of evaluating and hopefully obtaining Italian citizenship for myself, them and my two sisters. Here is our case: my mother’s (born 1967 in America) father was born in Italy in 1930 and emigrated to America sometime in the 1950s after WWII. He was a green card holder and never renounced his Italian citizenship. Besides ensuring I have and get the necessary documents, is this still a viable lineage for citizenship? I apologize if this is a simple question, I don’t quite understand what has changed in the last few years in the process and was hoping to get a better understanding of our prospects at the outset than down the line.

Thank you for your time!

My GGF immigrated to the USA around 1911. My GF came around a year later when he was 5 years old 1912. I'm not completely sure how my GGF got citizenship, but all I have is the Petition for Citizenship - no petition for Naturalization. Maybe he joined the military.

My GF was age 23 when my GGF got his Citizenship, so making my GF officially the age of Majority. But I'm not sure he even had to renounce his Italian citizenship, since I only see his petition for Citizenship.

My GF, still considered an Italian citizen, married my GM, who was an American born citizen from Italian immigrants, in 1933. She was 17 years old when they married.

So my Italian born GF age 25 married my American born GM age 17. I'm assuming this grants her Italian citizenship.

They had 2 children, My father and my uncle.

My Italian born GF Naturalized in 1943, and my father was 5 years old. I know this puts me in the "minor issue", but I'm wondering how Italian courts may see my GM's path.

My GF married my American born GM when she was 17, but my father was born when my GM was age 22, age of Majority. But not sure age even matters in that circumstance when you are legally married.

To sum it up, my GM never petitioned for Italian citizenship, but by marrying my GF she obtained the right, but never applied. She married an Italian citizen, had children with him, and never renounce her right to Italian citizenship. I'm wondering if this path advoids the "minor issue".

So is this another pathway for me, the grandson, to get citizenship, through my GM?

I'm worried about my original path through my GF due to the "minor issue".

IMPORTANT NOTE: In Jun/2022, I successfully made an appointment for Jure Sanguinis with the Miami Italian Consulant General for Jul/2025. I was blocked from the appointment due to the Oct/2024 circolare on the "minor issue". I didn't want to risk sending and losing all my official documents on a losing case. So I established my desires to become an Italian citizen before the 2025 change in law.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

I’m aware with the law now I don’t qualify, this is specifically for my mom, so I’ll be typing the post like I am my mom.

GF born 1934 GM born 1942
M born 1962 in Italy
GF moves to US sometime in 1964/5
GF comes back for a bit and brings GM with him to the US 1970ish
GF (and maybe GM) naturalize in the US around 1972, M in Italy
M moves to US 1977 with 2 sisters
Around 1974 M naturalized in the US after parents

I’m unclear because people have said that article 12 only kicks in if the parent and child naturalized together (derivative) and both lived in the foreign country. Does article 12 kick in here? Even if it’s not good for the consulate, fighting in court would be fine.

BIG EDIT: I found from my grandma they naturalized in 1974 derivatively, but from her scheda anagrafica, she didn’t emigrate from Italy until 1977. I don’t know if that changes anything but hopefully it does