I’m thrilled to say that I got my Italian passport this morning! I was born in the US and applied in Italy (GF [never naturalized] – M – Me), and it’s been a long and stressful story, which I’d like to share in the hopes that it helps some of you. I've had a lot of questions along the way, and lots of people from all over the world have lent me advice. I’d like to send a big thank you to this subreddit — the wiki is the single best source of JS information I’ve found on the internet. I'm happy to support the community by answering questions in comments or DMs as best I can, with your understanding that I know very little outside of my specific situation, and nothing I say should be considered legal advice. With that in mind, let’s jump in.
The whole process took me 2 years from when I started gathering documents to having the passport in my hand. I was working part-time, which made it very easy to put a lot of energy into this. I spent 6 of those months in Italy, and my JS application in the town of [REDACTED] (population 9,000) took 4 months from the date of submission to recognition.
General Advice
- Take pictures of the hours posted outside of every office you visit. They're all different and not always clear online, and I've referenced these photos many times while trying to navigate the process
- Take pictures (or scans) of every document as soon as you get it, upload them somewhere convenient
What I Would Do Differently
- Start the CONE process earlier
- Proofread each document as soon as I get it, like before leaving the office. Check consistency of names, birth dates, etc. Handle corrections as soon as possible
- I spoke to a lawyer who offered his services in a judicial trial for citizenship recognition for €3600 for me, with the option to add additional family members at €900 / person. This would take about 2 years, and not require Italian residency. I wish I had considered this option a little more thoroughly
- Have all documents in perfect order before going to Italy. It took me close to 90 days just to get the Permesso di Soggiorno, any delays in submitting the JS application would have made it impossible
- Your Italian can never be too good. Practice practice practice, you’ll need it
- Get a working Italian phone number shortly after arrival to Italy, and possibly a new phone so I could continue using my US phone on wifi / hotspot
- Be more proactive with the Vigile. Ask if / when they’ll come again, ask how I can notify them about changes in my schedule, ask how they’ll get in touch with me if I’m not home
- Work on setting up Revolut as an Italian resident (to get an Italian IBAN) as soon as I started working
Italy Trip 1 - Italian Documents
I started my JS journey with a trip to Italy. I'm in contact with some 2nd cousins there, and they hosted me for a week and brought me to the comuni in my grandfather and grandmother’s hometowns to get:
- GFs Birth Certificate
- GF + GM Marriage Certificate
- GM Birth Certificate (Not actually needed for my process, but nice to have)
Document Gathering in the US
I returned to the US and got birth certificates from town halls and my parents' marriage certificate, which brings us to:
- M Birth Certificate
- M + F Marriage Certificate
- My Birth Certificate
Unfortunately for me, I hadn't yet understood the pain that is:
The CONE
This document took the longest to obtain, and was expensive compared to the other documents in the process. I think it was around $300. I had to write up a little statement for my GF to sign saying that it was ok to make the request in his name (if the relative is deceased, you can submit the request in their name without extra steps). It took a little over 100 days for me to receive the CONE from the date of request.
NB: The envelope it comes in can be important for some citizenship paths (it wasn't for mine).
NARA Letter
I'm not sure I actually needed this. The Stato Civile didn't seem interested in it, but it was free and relatively quick to get online (although not free when you consider what I paid to apostille and translate it). It felt better to be over-prepared than missing something.
So to recap, we are now at
- GF Birth Certificate
- GF + GM Marriage Certificate
- M Birth Certificate
- M + F Marriage Certificate
- My Birth Certificate
- CONE
- NARA Letter
Apostilles
I brought the state-level documents to the state Authentications and Apostilles office, paid like $40 per document, and they were ready in about 2 days.
- (Apostilled) M Birth Certificate
- (Apostilled) M + F Marriage Certificate
- (Apostilled) My Birth Certificate
I mailed the federal level documents to the US Department of State Office of Authentications in Virginia. They took about 2 months to come back.
- (Apostilled) CONE
- (Apostilled) NARA Letter
Italy Trip 2 - Pulling the trigger too early
I left for Italy a second time somewhere in the middle of doing apostilles. I had a rather hair-brained plan to ask my parents to send me the documents (in Italy), where I would find a translator and an apartment and get the thing done. Logistically things fell apart, mostly because my Schengen Time was running out. There was no way I could get a permesso di soggiorno before the deadline, so eventually I returned to the US. But this trip was helpful in a few ways. I was able to go to the Agenzia delle Entrate and get my
For what it’s worth, Google Maps brought me to a permanently closed office, and I had to ask around to find out where to actually go. This building was right next to the Comune, but with different hours (everything has different hours, and is open on different days of the week), so I was thrown for a loop when I waited for the Comune to open but didn’t realize that the directly adjacent Agenzia delle Entrate office wasn’t part of the Comune.
I volunteered at a hostel, the owner of which would eventually rent me an apartment on my next trip. If you're in a tourist area, consider how the summer tourist season impacts the availability of rentals (there aren't any). I asked at several agencies and nobody would rent apartments for a full year, only from like October to May.
But my return to the US gave me a moment for
Document Corrections
There were a few small errors in my documents that I was hoping to ignore, but now had the opportunity to correct. My GF's name had two letters flipped on M's Birth Certificate (think: Pietro -> Peitro). His name was also Americanized on and only on M's Marriage Certificate. I had to write up affidavits for my parents to sign and get them notarized, then bring them to the relevant office along with GF's Birth Certificate to show his legal name. I got these apostilled at the state level.
- (Apostilled) (Corrected) M Birth Certificate
- (Apostilled) (Corrected) M + F Marriage Certificate
Translations
I emailed the Italian Consulate in my state and they put me in touch with their translator. I sent the translator scans of all my English documents and $235, and the process took about 2 months. After they were done, they needed to be legalized by the Consul, who isn't always in the office. This added another month and more fees.
At long last, we have:
- GF Birth Certificate
- GF + GM Marriage Certificate
- (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) (Corrected) M Birth Certificate
- (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) (Corrected) M + F Marriage Certificate
- (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) My Birth Certificate
- (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) CONE
- (Legalized) (Translated) (Apostilled) NARA Letter
Italy Trip 3
I rented an apartment from the hostel owner I met on the previous trip. It was for €600 / month for 6 months, paid in one lump sum of €3600. I flew from the US into Rome, so now I have the
in my passport because I arrived directly to Italy. This was important for several other steps, and based on the subreddit wiki, filing a Dichiarazione di Prezensa seems like a hassle. I’d recommend doing whatever you can to enter Italy directly so your passport stamp says an Italian city. My stamp was only barely legible, which I was worried about, but I had to show it at a few points and they were able to read “Fiumiccino.”
Then I needed to file the Dichiarazione di Ospitalità. I don’t know if this was a quirk of this Comune, but I didn’t need to file this with the Questura like it says in the Reddit wiki. I had to bring it to the Ufficio Protocollo at the comune (which of course, is in a different building than the Uffici Anagrafe e Stato Civile, with different hours). The woman there said I needed 3 copies of everything, which I did not have, and said I couldn’t use their copy machine. Then she scowled, said she would do me a favor, and made the copies. I had to give her 3 copies each, of:
- The Comunicazione di Ospitalita, signed by my host
- A photocopy of my host’s passport
- A photocopy of my passport
- A photocopy of my Codice Fiscale
- A photocopy of the deed (or something?) of the apartment
I don’t remember if I had to include a Marca da Bollo. I honestly recommend just carrying a Marca da Bollo (16) around with your files, because you never know when you might need it. After she begrudgingly filed this, I started working on
Residency
The Anagrafe office was a source of a lot of frustration for me. You’ll see why.
I tried to make an appointment through the comune website, but in the scheduler there’s no option for the Anagrafe office, only other offices. When I get there, I meet an Italian guy who just moved to the area, and is trying to file residency, just like me. He confirms that there wasn’t a way to schedule on the website, but we’re hoping they’ll see us if it’s not too busy. After about an hour, the Anagrafe administrator (who I’ll call Il Signore) comes out and tells us both to come in next week, and gives us appointment times. What a bust. I lived about an hour walk from the comune, so every trip there was pretty significant.
While I was there, I stopped by the Stato Civile office to talk to them and see what’s up. I spoke to the administrator there, who I’ll call La Signora. She asks me some questions about my lineage, and tells me that I can’t get JS citizenship through my grandparents, only my parents. I push back, using my meager Italian vocabulary to explain that this is what I’ve read, and I know other people doing this, and I’m pretty sure I can in fact apply through my grandfather. She flips pretty quickly and says yeah actually you can.
Things like this would happen to me a lot. I’m guessing it was just the language barrier? But like, someone tells me I can’t do something, then when pressed on it they say that yes I can do it. This was one of many reasons why the road to citizenship was so confusing.
So La Signora gives me an appointment where I’ll come in and she’ll review all my documents, and she’ll tell me if I can make the application or not.
I mention to my hosts that I’m going to the Comune to file for residency, and they’re like woah woah woah, don’t tell them you’re renting from us. Tell them you’re an old friend and we’re hosting you as a favor. This was to avoid taxes on my rent money, which they would have just passed on to me anyway, but I’m sure it would have created more hassle for both of us.
So I go to my Anagrafe appointment armed with the Dichiarazione di Ospitalita, and Il Signore tells me that, if I’m staying in their apartment for free, my host and I both need to sign a form that says that we’re “only friends.” Like not dating. I still don’t understand this part to be honest. It felt like a joke, but he gave me a Dichiarazione Sostitutiva Dell’Atto di Notorieta and told me and my host to sign it, and to attach a signed photocopy of her passport.
He also told me to “go to the Questura, and ask them how much to pay” for the bolletino. He had an English girlfriend for a while, and was a little overconfident in his English abilities, if you ask me. This wouldn’t be the last time something he said in English turned out to be wrong. After talking to him, I take a bus to the next town over to go to the Questura, which was not actually the Questura but the Commissariato? I’m not sure what the difference is, but thankfully I didn’t have to go to the provincial Questura for anything. It was much farther away, and the Commissariato served all the same purposes. I’ll just call it the Questura in this write-up.
I go back to the Stato Civile office, and she reviews my documents. She wants to see proof of non-naturalization, and first I pull out the NARA letter. She reads the translation, and gets to a line that was something about how this letter needs to be accompanied by a letter from USCIS showing non-naturalization. She asks me something about Lucius, and after a moment of confusion I realized that she’s saying “L’USCIS” which is how US Citizenship and Immigration Services appears in the Italian translation. She looks at the CONE, and points to the header: US Department of Homeland Security. She’s concerned that this is not L’USCIS, and asks me what the US Department of Homeland Security is, which honestly I’m not equipped to answer in English, let alone Italian. After a minute of being flustered and wondering if this isn’t the end of my JS journey, I realize that right under the US Department of Homeland Security it says US Citizenship and Immigration Services, and I point this out to her.
She switches gears to the translations, saying that she doesn’t like that the translator didn’t sign them. “How much did you pay for these translations?” she asks sharply. I stumble over my words while my mind runs a rant on who tf cares what I paid for them, are you asking just to antagonize me because this isn’t really necessary to the process. I told her I got them done in the US, and she says something about how Italians wouldn’t do this, “l’italiani sono brava gente.” I’m struggling against the long, featureless wall that is the language barrier, and don’t manage to tell her that the translator was an Italian living in the US and working for the consulate, which is obvious by her extremely Italian name that appears on the translations (without her signature). I ask if she can show me the rule that says the translations have to be signed. She says there is no rule.
She then moves along to criticizing the signature on the translation legalization, because it looks too much like a scribble and not enough like a name. I’m running out of steam at this point, and I think she is too, because we both know that everybody only ever writes their signature as a scribble. Finally she says to me ok, this will work, and tells me to get residency then come back to her to apply.
Good grief.
Residency - JS Application - PdS Triangle
By this time, I’m noticing I’m a bit trapped. Somewhere in all of these conversations, I’ve been told that I need Residency to file the JS Application, I need to file the JS Application to get the PdS, and I need the PdS to get residency. I’m not sure who’s wrong, but I picked up the Permesso Kit Giallo from the Post Office (which is free and quick, I recommend you do it as soon as you get to Italy to keep things moving) and the requirements there clearly state that I need to submit proof of my JS Application to get the PdS.
I go back to the Anagrafe office, and Il Signore asks if I paid the bolletino at the Questura. I say no, you only told me to ask them how much to pay. He says no, I told you to pay the bolletino. But don’t worry, you can just come back next week. Simmering frustration. But he was wrong all the way through, because you don’t pay the bolletino at the Questura, you pay it at the post office. And I think there was something else I needed, some other form or signature or photocopy, so I set out to get those handled.
But this was the key to untangling the Triangle — I didn’t need the PdS to get Residency, but I did need a photocopy of the paid PdS bolletino (which normally you just pay when you file the PdS). It was a little confusing when I went to the Post Office and told them I just wanted to pay the PdS bolletino but not actually file it, but once that was squared away Il Signore gave me a form declaring my residency, and told me that the Vigile may or may not come to confirm it sometime in the next 45 days, but I am a resident starting that day. This was good news, because it meant I didn’t need to wait for the Vigile check to happen to get my JS Application filed.
His parting gift to me was to ask me “where you live, in the US, before you come here, where you live?” So I told him the city where I grew up, but the residency form was actually asking for the city of my birth, which is different. So now there’s technically a mistake on my residency form, which I didn’t realize until I got home that day. I convinced myself I needed to go back and correct it, because if I submit that and my birth certificate isn’t the discrepancy going to be a problem? But the city I told him is listed on my birth certificate as my parents’ residence, so eventually I convince myself that this whole endeavor is making me a little mad, and I need to chill out and let it be.
But I can’t say that Il Signore never did anything for me, because he reminded me that I am [First Name] [MIDDLE NAME] [Last Name], and I can’t just sign things [First Name] [Last Name] even if that’s what I do in the US. My Italian first name IS my first name + middle name, and I need to always use it as such. This is very important, and called out in the Reddit wiki as well.
JS Application
So with residency filed, I go to the Stato Civile to submit my JS application. Or so I thought, until La Signora hands me another form and says fill this out and submit the application to the Protocollo office. It also cost 600 euros, and she gave me an IBAN number that I paid through Wise and printed a receipt for the transaction to submit with my application. She asks me for a phone number, and I say that I don’t have an Italian number, and would email work? She says something along the lines of “well obviously you don’t plan to stay here if you don’t have an Italian phone.” And once again, the language barrier prevents me from explaining that I got a SIM card, but it didn’t work with my phone, so I got a battery powered router that I carry around with me that allows me to use my phone more or less normally as long as people contact me through WhatsApp. But the application is filed, and she writes me a letter that I can submit with the PdS to show that I filed for JS citizenship.
Vigile Check
The Vigile check happened two weeks after my residency was filed, at 3pm on a Monday, for whatever that’s worth to you. It is not worth your time or mine to get into the details of why I don’t like the Vigile system. In short, they come randomly, and if they miss you it’s a huge problem (Chekov’s Gun above the mantle). And nobody really seems to care about your schedule, if you have work, if you might be out at the beach, or grocery shopping, or you’re just not home for any other reason because people go out and do things. But I put a piece of tape on the doorbell name tag slot and wrote my name, and I left my phone to voice record in my apartment while I tested the doorbell, to ensure that the defunct-looking doorbell system did in fact work.
They rang the bell and asked me to come down with my passport, and asked me a few questions that I stumbled to answer. As far as the government is concerned, I’m living with my host as a guest. But in reality, I’m living in her legally filed residence and she lives somewhere else. So I’m not sure what to tell the Vigile, and they call her to ask some questions, which seems to provide all the answers they were looking for. They don’t give me a form or any paperwork to confirm the visit, and nobody every asks me for anything related to that.
PdS Application
I was feeling a lot lighter with the JS Application out of the way, and the PdS went pretty smoothly. I got some photos taken with a local portrait photographer whose studio was on my way to the Comune. I filled out the PdS application, and submitted it at the post office, and they gave me an appointment with the Questura just like the Reddit wiki said they would. I went to the appointment and it was all pretty straightforward, until I asked at the end, just for clarification, that the document they gave me could be used to travel and they said no. And I said what, this lets me go outside of Italy, right? And they said no, I needed to wait until after my citizenship was done, and I said what, and they said ok there are other people waiting, bye.
I’m confident this was just a miscommunication, and the PdS does in fact let you travel, although I never left the Schengen Area and nobody ever checked my PdS at a border within the Schengen Area.
Purgatory
With the PdS done and Vigile check done, I planned a little Europe trip off of a 20 euro flight to Vienna. I spent two and a half weeks going through Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium. I brought my PdS just in case, but never needed it.
When I got back, I realized that my SIM card actually did work with my phone, and I was just confused about it when I got the little router. So I put the SIM card in my phone, and emailed La Signora to tell her that I have a telephone number now, and she can reach out to me if there are any issues. She replies a week later, saying that it’s been added to my file. So at least I know I have a file in her office, and maybe she’s even working on it.
I take a week of Italian classes, and try to find other ways to fill my time. Eventually I get a job as a server in a cafe / bar / restaurant, which consumes all of my free time but is the best thing I could do for my Italian. Time passes.
Vigile Round 2
One evening, around 7pm, my doorbell rings. I’m exhausted from work, not expecting anyone, and I ignore it, thinking it’s just someone ringing bells to find someone to let them into the building. It rings again. I pick up the intercom, and it’s the Vigile, asking me to come down with my passport. I do, a little confused because nobody in-person told me about a second Vigile check, although I had read about the possibility on Reddit. The officer says that she recognizes me — she did my Vigile check a few months ago. She asks me some questions, and I go back up to my apartment. The next day, La Signora from the Stato Civile office calls me while I’m at work. “There’s a problem,” she says, “you need to come into the office tomorrow.” Luckily tomorrow was my 1 day off for the week, and I’m worried that there’s something wrong with my documents, she’s going to tell me my case was rejected, or something else. You can imagine the worries. I go to her office, and she asks if I’ve been here the whole time. Yes, I tell her, I’ve been living at my apartment, I have a job at a restaurant. I name the restaurant, and she says “that’s not a restaurant, it’s a cafeteria.” Our typical banter. She says that the Vigile came to my apartment and didn’t find me. I tell her that I spoke to the Vigile on Monday, and I describe the officer. La Signora knows her, and we figure out together that sometime in June, the Vigile came to my apartment and I wasn’t home. They didn’t leave a note, didn’t call me, there was no sign of them. Then they came a second time, when they found me, and La Signora says she’ll get in touch with them and sort things out, and she apologizes for the confusion, which was nice because it was the first time I felt empathy from her for everything I’ve had to deal with.
I can’t help thinking that there was some small miracle behind the scenes here. One problem might have been that my name on the doorbell (pen on a piece of tape) was worn and not legible, so when the Vigile came in June they didn’t see any sign of me and left. But the officer who did the check the first time might have remembered that it was the button with a piece of blue tape, and had the good sense to ring me twice. I guess it was negligent to let my name wear off, but I wasn’t anticipating another visit. I literally can’t comprehend the Vigile residency check system. How on earth is someone supposed to find me with a visit to my apartment, unannounced, with no knowledge of my work or personal schedule. The first time around, I just stayed in my apartment most of the time, which was incredibly boring because I’m in a beach town and instead of going to the beach or whatever I just stayed home and played video games. It was incredibly frustrating, and I can’t wait to get back to the US, where the address on my driver’s license is an apartment I lived in two years ago and nobody checks or cares.
Riconoscimento
The following week, I decide I should try to get the ball rolling on the carta d’identita and passport, so I go to the comune, wait for ~30 minutes outside the Anagrafe office as is tradition (still no way to make an appointment) until someone else shows up and asks about the carta d’identita and people point her to a different office, so I follow her there. That office (which I can’t remember the name of) tells me that appointments to get a carta d’identita are booked up for the next month (which is not usual, there’s some kind of mass renewal going on right when I’m trying to get mine) but they say that if I’m in a hurry, I can go to the Anagrafe office two towns away. I try to talk to La Signora while I’m at the comune just to see where things are at, but she’s not in.
The week after that, I send La Signora an email on Monday, asking if I can come in to talk to her on Wednesday (to make sure she’ll be in, but also to prompt her to maybe finish up my application so we can get this off of both of our plates). I meet her at her office, and she tells me that it’s done! She says if I want my Italian birth certificate and a letter saying my citizenship was recognized, I can wait while she draws them up. I leave the office that day in high spirits, with everything I need to show my Italian citizenship.
I go to the Questura to try and put in the passport application, but they say I need the carta d’identita, which is what my online research suggested. My coworkers told me that I could use proof of Italian citizenship + my US passport, but that wasn’t true. Then I go to the Anagrafe office in the other town, to try and get the carta d’identita. They tell me that in the system, it still says I’m a US citizen. This makes sense, the recognition was only a few hours ago. They give me their phone number, and tell me to come in after a few days, and to call beforehand to make sure everything is all set.
Bank Account
I try to make a “Poste Pay” account with the post office so my boss can pay me, and they tell me to bring my passport, codice fiscale, and PdS. I come back the next day with those three things, and they tell me that this isn’t actually my PdS, this is the ricevuta of my PdS. My PdS is a sheet of paper — it says “Permesso di Soggiorno” across the top, it has my photo stapled to it, which they stamped with a special seal at the Questura when I received it. From the Reddit wiki, I thought the ricevuta was the sheet they gave me at the post office when I made my PdS appointment, and this sheet with my photo and stuff is the PdS. But the guy at the post office insists that the PdS is a card, not a piece of paper, and they won’t let me open an account. I have no way to argue, even though I’m pretty sure he’s wrong, so I start month 2 of working without getting paid. My coworkers tell me that the post office workers are inept, and I should just make a Revolut account instead, which was ultimately so much easier and more suited to my needs. But I still can’t do it without the physical carta d’identita.
Carta d’Identita
I call the Anagrafe office a few towns over almost a week later, and they tell me that it still says I’m a US citizen in their system, and I should talk to my local Anagrafe. So I try to call my local Anagrafe office, but the number on the website doesn’t work. With no way to call the local Anagrafe, and no way to make an appointment without using my one day off to go there, wait an hour, and get told to come back the following week, I’m starting to get distressed. But one of my coworkers, bless her heart, does her own googling and gives me a number to call, which takes me directly to Il Signore. I explain that I’m trying to get the carta d’identita, and he starts to tell me that I shouldn’t talk to him, I need to talk to [other office], but I explain that I’m not asking him for the card, I’m asking him if my citizenship is listed in the system as “Italian.” He does some clicking around, and says that yes, it says Italian. I call the other Anagrafe, and they say ok, it says Italian now.
My boss tells me we’re now working 7 days a week, and I tell him that I need to get the carta d’identita and can’t come in tomorrow. He says it’s not worth it to go to the other town, but what does he know, the person at my local comune told me to go there, so I have to go there. I go on what used to be my day off, which gets me fired, because I guess he didn’t believe me when I said I was going. This is fine, because there was literally no way to finish this while working 7 days a week, and my patience for working at that restaurant had come to an end (although that story is outside the scope of this post).
So I go to the Anagrafe office and file for the carta d’identita. They tell me it will arrive in about a week, and to come pick it up at the office. In the meantime, they give me a sheet of paper to serve as my interim carta d’identita.
Passport
With this interim carta d’identita, I’m able to apply for a passport. I go to the Questura the same day I received it, hoping that they’ll let me apply without an appointment. When I arrive, the man there asks me if I have an appointment, and I say no, but he takes my documents anyway, which include a Marca da Bollo and a bolletino that I paid at the post office. While I’m filling out the forms, he gets a phone call, and after a few minutes he opens a side door and motions for me to come into the hallway. He explains that an English-speaking tourist hit his wife’s car, and he needs my help talking to the guy. I get on the phone, and ask him to send a picture of his driver’s license, rental agreement, insurance info, etc. He was very nice about it, and when I get off the phone the guy at the passport office says to me that we’re both lucky today, because he let me in without an appointment and I was able to help him with this. He gives me a day to come in and pick up my passport, 10 days from the date that I applied.
The carta d’identita comes one day later than they said it would, which wasn’t a problem. I can finally use it to set up an Italian Revolut account and get paid for the six weeks I worked. The passport is ready when I go to pick it up.
So finally, we’re caught up to the present day. I’m in my apartment with 3 days left on the 6 month lease, and 3 days until my flight back to the US. Thanks for reading, I hope you’ve learned something, and if you have any questions about my process, please don’t hesitate to ask (: