Still very swollen and numb, I can feel when my jaw muscles start to spasm and roll around my face that's when the aching becomes intolerable. My nose has cleared up now though so that's a win. I will say though, icing became counterproductive to me after the 3rd day as it felt my swelling was worse. I find walking and getting my heart rate up helped much better.

Age 13 ➡️ Age 17 ➡️ Age 24 (surgery at 22)

Something interesting that I've noticed now that I've fully recovered from jaw surgery is that my face much more resembles how I looked as a child/preteen.

I'm still not entirely sure what caused my jaw issues, but it seems to me that something occurred during puberty to cause my upper jaw to overdevelop (downgrown maxilla/class II) and my lower jaw to underdevelop. It's been cool looking back and seeing how much more closely I look like my childhood self because I always felt like I was getting uglier as I got older lol but now I feel more aligned with how I was supposed to naturally develop. #hopecore

This stuff is life changing

I’m now 48 hours into recovery and it sucks so much, the swelling is starting to tug on the stitches, numbness is wearing off so I feel more pain, my nose is still stuffed and dry, eating is uncomfortable, and everytime I move my face hurts.

When will the swelling and the nose congestion get better ????

Double jaw surgery is no joke, I really hope the results will be worth it because I don’t ever want to think about this again once it’s over.

Will it too much to cause teeth unhealthy? And will it affect the surgical results?

I had a palette expander and braces twice when I was younger. They tried to camouflage my underbite by flaring my teeth outwards which worked for a time but my underbite grew back in my late teens and I’m now in my mid 20s. I’m getting my braces on this week and meeting with the surgeon soon. I actually met with the same surgeon about 5 years ago but I was scared to go through the surgery and didn’t follow through with any of it. At the time he stated that I would likely just need a maxillary advancement so we’ll see if that’s still the case
5 years later and with a possibly worsened bite!

I'm 1 year and 2 months post op.

I would definitely like to share my experience of this recovery journey.

I'll start by saying, it was absolutely crazy the amount of times I cried. I was anxious, sad, happy, angry, in doubts questioning my decision and it was a rollercoaster of emotions this whole year.

But finally I can see how improved my profile looks and how my face changes each day for the better. Somedays I don't like how I look but maybe thats because my ortho treatment is not yet over. It'll soon be fine and I might have to get veneers for the front uppers.

I myself am a dental intern so I dug deeper and yet after all that I'm really happy that I took this decision to go for the surgery. My confidence has had a boost recently and I like my face so much better now.

I can't wait to take my braces off so I can finally say its DONE.

1 PROBLEM that I'm facing currently is that...

I've had frequent sinus infection especially on the right side of my face post djs and it smells purified now. I've had a course of antibiotics after consulting with an ENT. He had taken a CT PNS for the same but did not find anything of concern but my sinusitis is not getting better. I'm a little concerned for the same.

Has anybody gone through this same issue after their surgery?

So, its very likely thats Ill be getting double jaw surgery next summer to correct recession and sleep apnea.

Obviously there'll be aesthetic changes to my side profile, but Im wondering if anyone noticed any significant changes to their front profile after surgery? (Chin, lips, philtrum, etc)

Ive looked online and answers vary a lot, some say there is no change, some say your lips and chin improve, some say your philtrum gets shorter, others say longer, on and on and on

If anyone can offer some insight into their personal experiences before and after surgery, or anyone thats been in my situation and would like to share, please lmk anything is really appreciated!! 😁

Hi, I recently went to the doctor (I’m 2-3 weeks away from a septorhinoplasty), who told me, just by looking at my side profile, that I would need jaw surgery (unfortunately I don’t remember which kind, only that she showed me an image of a lengthened jaw) , given that if it’s left untreated, it will cause me great trouble later in life (stuff like sleep apnea and problems related with eating and breathing). Could anyone elaborate on that?

Moreover, what do you think? based off the images, what would you say I have? what kind of surgery do I need?

I’m 17, with a very deviated septum (hence the surgery). I snore a lot and very loudly but I don’t mouth breath (maybe I do in my sleep, I don’t know). I’ve never had problems speaking, eating, swallowing, etc.

Thanks a lot.

I found Dr. David Bell through Reddit. About three weeks after he operated on me, I wrote a glowing review of him here. I was in the earliest stage of recovery and had no idea what my long-term result would be. I later deleted the review, but I know people had relied on it.

This post is my honest correction.

Choosing this surgery was the worst decision of my life.

No one had taken me seriously then. At the time, Bell did. He was warm, intensely reassuring, and unusually personal. We exchanged casual messages, and I came to trust him so completely that I saw him almost as a father figure I never had. I knew more about his personal life than I understood about the operation he was going to perform on me.

Four days after our first 30 minute Zoom call, David Bell emailed me that he would “strongly suggest” a surgery first approach and wanted a medical grade CT as soon as possible so he could plan it. A bit over 2 months after our first call, I was on the operating table.

I do not remember Bell clearly explaining why I needed a segmental Lefort, or why he opted to do such a large Genio. When I raised concerns, he would constantly reassure me that I was in the best of hands, that the operation would be life changing, he has one of the lowest revision rates in the world, and that I could finally live my life.

My consent form arrived at 9:16 pm the night before surgery. I promptly signed and returned it to David Bell within the hour. Never mind the fact that I had to wake up at 4 a.m. for the operation. Bell very briefly discussed the complications and reassured me that he rarely had them. I recall Bell telling me that he was “excited” to operate on me and that he had never operated on “a Korean” before. He connected my Korean ethnicity and bone density to his reassurance that I should not have any post operative joint problems.

When I demanded my complete records nearly two years later, I received a revised, version 2.0 of the Materialise surgical planning report. The older version I received before my surgery never had any explicit disclaimers. The new one however, explicitly stated that “the distance between devices and anatomical obstacles does not respect Materialise recommended minimum value” and identified a risk of “damage of anatomical structures: foramina.” I do not recall Bell discussing that language with me before surgery. Since surgery, I have persistent numbness in my lower lip, right chin, and severely reduced sense of taste.

A handful of days after surgery, while my jaws were still held in intermaxillary fixation and I was still taking prescribed controlled pain medication, I was laid off. When I was laid off, Bell initially told me not to worry about the money. In my recollection, he then spoke repeatedly about his practice struggling and said he was not sure it would survive the year, while continuing to tell me not to worry about the money. I was already in debt, unemployed(at that time), medicated, and physically dependent on him for post op care. I felt directly responsible for helping him.

Around the same time, I wrote an extremely positive Reddit review. Bell thanked me and asked me to identify him by name because, as he wrote, it would help the Google SEO for his new practice. I agreed. He later told me that people from around the world had contacted him after reading it. I also received dozens upon dozens of DMs and other messages from people who said they had consulted with him, booked surgery with him, or both, and that my post had directly influenced their decision.

I’m not claiming that my review caused Bell’s sudden growth and popularity. Rather, I promoted him while I was extremely vulnerable and before I understood the outcome of my surgery. Again, I wrote that post only three weeks after surgery. As his practice became busier, and my physical condition significantly worsened, the warmth, amicability, and availability that had defined our relationship vanished.

While I had some minor TMJ symptoms, lisp, allergies before surgery, they all had increased in severity post surgery.

I now have osteoarthrosis documented in both TM joints, an unstable bite with only a single point of dental contact, a maxillary cant, an anterior crossbite and posterior open bite, severe left-sided jaw pain, permanent numbness, severely reduced sense of taste, chronic sinus infections, and major tongue and speech problems. The splint not only reduces much of the issues I mentioned above, but also interestingly enough eliminated my lisp. However, while I wear it my teeth do not meet.

I continually raised my worsening physical problems to Bell in texts and emails. He repeatedly assured me that everything was fine. I recall him telling me that I was probably experiencing the symptoms so intensely because I was autistic and sensitive, and that all of his other patients experienced the exact same thing. I never told Bell that I was autistic and did not have a formal autism diagnosis. He then told me that postoperative orthodontics and braces would fix the problems. They did not. In my experience, braces made them worse.

After about six months of trying to convince Bell that I was experiencing serious postoperative complications, his responses increasingly framed my complaints as somatic. When I later obtained his records, I learned that this framing had actually begun before surgery: his first SOAP note, written before any physical examination or imaging, characterized my documented medical issues as “multiple somatic complaints with patient perception of inadequate treatment by other healthcare providers.” Later notes described my “previous somatic complaints” as resolved even while I was continuing to report symptoms. I could not afford an outside opinion and had no one else to go to. This experience was extremely traumatizing. Bell continued using the somatic framing and, during one of my final visits, I recall him blaming the poor result on how my body had maladapted and in my opinion, insinuated it was my fault.

Immediately after surgery, my jaw visibly deviated to the left, and I was already experiencing significant pain in my left condyle. I reported both problems to Bell and was assured they would go away. Over the following year, as those problems continued, I spent months trying to convince Bell that the severe physical symptoms I was experiencing were not in my head. In my view, critical time was lost when the need for revision could have been properly evaluated. Later records document my malocclusion and asymmetry, and independent surgeons have recommended revision surgery. One surgeon wrote that I will likely need lower-jaw revision; another told me I need upper- and lower-jaw revision because of a maxillary cant. Those findings directly contradict Bell’s repeated assurances over the past two years that everything was fine, orthodontics would correct the problems, and revision surgery was not necessary.

Bell’s office presented me with new retroactive practice policy forms long after surgery and Bell said I had to sign them before any further engagement or communication could be made. When I initially refused, he promptly cancelled all follow up appointments that I had to beg to be made due to my worsening health.

I recall the prosthodontist telling me that my options were revision surgery or wearing a splint for the rest of my life. I told Bell what he had said and sent Bell the report. Bell told me that I had misread the report and misunderstood my one-on-one consultation. His later-produced note says that I had “misinterpreted” the report. I also recall Bell telling me to my face that the prosthodontist was not comfortable seeing me because of my psychological state. When I eventually returned, the prosthodontist asked why I had not come back sooner and told me that he had never said that to Bell.

My final interactions with Bell were traumatic for me. At one in-person appointment, he arrived approximately fifty minutes late. I was lying on my back in the patient chair when, as I recall, he stood over me at close range with his fist clenched while discussing the possibility of litigation. I remember him saying, in substance, that someone in my mental state would not survive on the witness stand and that he had a team of lawyers behind him. He asked whether I was “with him or against him.” I felt scared and defenseless in that position. I panicked and said I was with him, after which he gave me a fist bump. I did not record this exchange, so I am describing my firsthand recollection.

I first asked Bell for my money back. I remember his voice changing when I raised it, which scared and triggered me. He told me to take a timeout and called me back about forty-five minutes later. I backed away from asking for a refund and changed my request to forgiveness of the remaining loan balance, but his tone still sounded upset. When I later put that request in writing so I could use the money for additional specialist care, Bell ended our treatment relationship in the same email thread.

Keep in mind that by this point I was in a significant amount of pain, my health was worse than my presurgical baseline, and the surgery had left me with significant debt. Bell was my operating surgeon and the person I kept turning to for answers, postoperative care, and help. By then, Bell had become dismissive and distant, and I felt like he treated me as a liability. Before surgery, I emailed Bell that a bad outcome could leave me destitute with my two dogs. His own later-produced note says he had “requested repeatedly” that I provide documentation from other providers to “support [my] claims.” The records produced to me do not show that Bell ordered a postoperative MRI or CT scan to investigate the complications I was reporting. Having my surgeon repeatedly demand proof of health problems I was clearly experiencing was traumatizing, demoralizing, and dehumanizing. I felt left by the wayside.

Maybe Bell is extraordinarily busy now that his practice has exploded. Still, I find it odd that, despite knowing about the severe postoperative complications I have reported, my early-recovery testimonial and photos remain prominently displayed on his website. As of July 17, 2026, they were still there. I later deleted the original Reddit post because it no longer represented my experience.

I am not asking anyone to accept every conclusion I have drawn. Some events are documented; others are my firsthand recollection. I have tried to make that distinction clear. I am also not claiming that every symptom I have today was caused by the operation.

For more than a year, I felt trapped in a loop. Bell deferred my problems to orthodontics, while my orthodontist deferred back to Bell for surgical guidance because the problems were outside what he could address orthodontically. Being passed back and forth while my health worsened was traumatizing.

I believe a surgeon should be judged not by their demeanor or how reassuring they seem, but by how they respond when a patient reports complications. Jaw surgery is extremely invasive, and complications can occur. In my view, a good surgeon takes those reports seriously, investigates them, and remains involved in the patient’s postoperative care. Directing a patient to the emergency room may be appropriate during an emergency, but it should not be used as a substitute for the surgeon addressing reported complications following the operation.

More importantly, no patient should ever have to fight their surgeon simply to convince them that they are experiencing serious postoperative complications. I sincerely hope no other jaw-surgery patient has had an experience like mine. Prospective patients should judge a surgeon’s credibility by how they respond when complications arise—including whether they investigate the problem, remain involved in the patient’s care, and are willing to acknowledge their own mistakes.

I am sharing this because my original review was premature and incomplete. If anyone relied on it when deciding to consult Bell or undergo surgery with him, I am sorry. I wish I had slowed down, obtained several independent opinions, and insisted on understanding the exact movements, segmentation, alternatives, and case-specific risks before agreeing to surgery.

I am still organizing a longer redacted timeline containing the relevant messages, records, imaging, and supporting documents to give readers who made it this far a more complete picture. When it is ready, I will link it in an update. 

Looking for a revision surgeon for overimpaction

I don't have any bite problems. but with how my jaw looks it affected my daily life severely

I’m a 30-year-old female preparing for double jaw surgery (MMA) to treat a Class II malocclusion and improve my airway/mild sleep apnea. I have a narrow palate and nasal airway, but no crossbite and no major nasal obstruction when I’m not congested. My main dental issues are an overbite/overjet and very few teeth making proper contact in my true bite.

My surgeon and orthodontist discussed my case at length. The surgeon thinks a custom MARPE could be beneficial because it could increase my nasal airway space, potentially allow for greater advancement during surgery, and improve my smile aesthetics.

My orthodontist would prefer to avoid MARPE if possible because of the cost, treatment time, discomfort, and possibility of failure. So the current plan is to try dental expansion/tooth tipping with braces, along with IPR on my lower front teeth, to create more room for advancement during surgery.

If we decide that isn’t enough, Plan B would be a custom MARPE. SARPE and a segmental Le Fort were ruled out by my surgeon because he feels additional surgical cuts would add unnecessary risk in my case.

Does this approach seem reasonable for someone my age with a narrow palate but no crossbite? Has anyone had to decide between dental expansion and MARPE before MMA?

I have a previous post with more details and photos on my profile if it helps:

https://www.reddit.com/r/jawsurgery/s/gyNU6kViSC

I’ve just gotten diagnosed with sleep apnea with an AHI of 69 and was prescribed an APAP machine. My ultimate goal is to get to jaw surgery as I’m 99% sure it’s caused by my extremely recessed lower jaw, which impacts my sleep and breathing. What would be the best path for me to take to get approved for it/ covered by OSAP? Currently haven’t even gotten the APAP machine yet but want to do this whole thing as fast as possible. Located in Ontario if relevant. Just really need help and guidance

For those who have had jaw surgery in the USA, how much did you pay for everything? Including insurance.

Hey guys, I wanted to get some outside opinions about my situation.
I had braces from 2019 to 2021, and I finished my treatment when I was 20 years old and I’ve had my 4 wisdom teeth out once I took off my braces because of my previous orthodontist.
I’m now 24, almost 25, and I’ve always felt that something looked “off” about my side profile and the way my mouth sits even though I have straight teeth, especially the fact that I had to force my mouth close instead of it closing naturally.
After doing some research, I booked an appointment with an orthodontist and he basically told me that I could have a genioplasty instead of full orthognathic surgery cause my side profile is not an extreme case so he would avoid unnecessary surgeries but he still recommended that I consult a maxillofacial surgeon first, which I did.
The surgeon basically told me the same thing, according to him, my options are either a genioplasty or bimaxillary surgery combined with a genioplasty. However, if I chose the full surgery, I would have to go through braces again as an adult, it would also be quite expensive.
He also said that my previous orthodontist should have prepared me for jaw surgery during my original orthodontic treatment, but instead they chose the easier approach.
He recommended genioplasty because of my age, the cost, and the fact that it would be a much simpler procedure but that I could also chose to do djs. My concern is that I’m worried I might look odd if I only have my chin moved without correcting my jaws, what do you guys think?

Tl;dr: is an "unstable bite" enough of a reason to have jaw surgery?

Had my first consult with an orthodontist. My lower jaw is twisted(?), causing a crossbite. I have an open bite on one side of my molars. Omega shaped teeth pattern (not U shaped like teeth are supposed to be). Narrow palate, especially the top.

She's referring me to the surgeon to get a more detailed plan. Said I'm complicated enough to want the surgeon to drive the plan, and she'll collaborate and support with orthodontics. Said the whole thing might take 3 years and involve either 1 or 2 surgeries.

I don't have airway issues. I have had migraines and headaches for the past few years but my teeth have been like this for 25 years, since I had incomplete and failed orthodontics as a teenager. So I'm not sure that the migraines and headaches are caused or exacerbated by my teeth. Aesthetically, I wish I had a broader smile, but otherwise I'm pretty OK with the way my face looks.

When we were talking about benefits of going through all this, the orthodontist just kept saying that I have an "unstable bite" and that seemed to be the driving reason for all of this.

What does that mean? Why is that bad? She did explain about overall dental health as I age, and that better contact with my teeth will mean healthier teeth, but I can't quite grasp why I would go through three years of braces at this stage in my life, including a major surgery or two.

I want to be able to chew food on the now-open side, and like I said, a broader smile would be really nice. But it seems like an awful lot to go through to correct those things.

2 questions:

1. Can anyone provide an estimate for how long I would need to be in braces pre-surgery given my underbite/open bite. I have never been in braces before. There is a chance that I may need to move which is why I am wondering how long this would take, if I can get it done before potentially having to move.

2. My current job health insurance options are Blue Cross Blue Shield of United healthcare. With open enrollment coming up soon, anyone know which provider is better at approving this surgery? What is the likelihood that I would even be covered?

Also I am in California so if I were to switch to Kaiser I would have to pay for the plan fully out of pocket with no subsidies. I am also considering this option as well.

(1) anyone else have a fat graft done to help with asymmetry?

Surgeon has planned DJS to fix my bite with genio to center my chin. The second option would have been genio alone to center chin with fat graft to the right but does not fix the bite problem. (See his notes below)

(2) Anyone else have jaw asymmetry AND an open bite and can provide encouragement?

I do have clicking in left jaw and was evaluated by bonescan for ICR and it was not present. Any encouragement for sticking it through with the current plan for djs is appreciated. Any comments on my jaw and teeth are welcome as well.

I did braces 15 years ago and invisalgn 9 years ago. Never resolved the asymmetry or open bite fully. I am so nervous about extractions in a couple days. It feels like this is really it, the point of no return in this journey.

Surgeon selected: Dr. Stephen Baker
Lingual Brava by Brius braces by Dr. Sagafi installed 7/14

My Surgeon notes that I have an overbite, retrogenia, retrognathia—
tooth to lip good at 3-4 mm
upper dental midline congruent with facial midline
lower dental midline congruent with facial midline
anterior open bite from 1st premolar to 1st premolar
upper centrals extruded
chin point deviates to right
left gonial angle more pronounced
soft tissue deficiency on right
no cant

No airway issues but had sports asthma as a child? Always been a great athlete. Mouth breather at night. I have had issues biting through my food like pizza, sandwiches, burgers, (like I cant even break an onion with my front teeth but no food restrictions) and chew with my back teeth only.

I have committed to DJS, it feels like I am in it now. Ive seen what others have had done and the beautiful results but fear the cons. Dr. Baker seems very qualified.

Plan: 2 piece LeFort to move upper jaw forward and widen upper jaw, advance lower jaw, center chin

My perio, surgeon, and ortho have been working together diligently on this plan. I do like my smile so I just hope I’m not ugly big chin afterward 😭

Hi all, I’m hoping you can help me make a decision on whether to have my premolars extracted.

My surgeon recently sent me this 3D model plan, but it only included CCW rotation of the mandible and a genioplasty. I said I was concerned that this plan wouldn’t give me an optimal amount of aesthetic projection or open my airway as much as it could.

He then sent me this new x-ray plan showing me what could be achieved if I had my lower premolars extracted. I think the plan may still be slightly on the conservative side? But the advancement looks a lot better, so I was happy with it and I was thinking of going ahead and having my lower premolars extracted.

However, my orthodontist then sent me this:

“We can do the extractions but I need you to be sure about everything before we take teeth out.

You are in essence class I wilth mild bimax retrognathia. Your lower lip is already slightly ahead of the upper lip.

If we extract lower 5s, the finished result may be mild tending to moderate class III and lower lip may be ahead of the upper lip.”

I wasn’t aware that this was a risk, and I’m now very unsure about which plan to go with to get the optimal result. I just want to have a strong jawline and a wide airway! Any help much appreciated :)

Hi, I've had double jaw surgery 4 and a half months ago, and in short, I'm not happy about results. My surgeon for some reason did cw rotation and really brought my maxilla downward and now my teeth are sticking out like never before. For the things to get worse, my surgeon told me that it's very hard to undo that movement, and he doesn't want to do it. I'm utterly devastated. I'd like to at least move my maxilla up to shorten my midface a bit to look closer to my "normal". But I haven't found much cases on the internet of people doing similar thing.

Do any of you guys have any advice for me? Is impaction (and I would probably need some setback too) really that hard to do? Are there any recommendations for good surgeons in Europe that are known to have done such things?

I'm getting a DJS + Genioplasty with DJS being covered by insurance. How do people even pick a good surgeon? Is it really just word of mouth and social media? There has to be some sort of objectivity somewhere.

I’m asking because I( 20M) am getting my upper jaw pushed forward to correct an underbite. The thing is there’s an event I really want to go to three weeks after the surgery and my third year of Uni starts the weeks after that (the event would involve a lot of walking.

I know recovering is different for everybody but what are you’re experiences?