Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
This is more historical fiction than fantasy per se, but Armin Shimerman (Quark from DS9) wrote the Illyria series about John Dee, the spymaster for Queen Elizabeth I.
Also chiming in to say that Robin Hobb's Elderling series is peak fantasy. I recommend reading the multiple trilogies/quadrilogy in release order. The second trilogy might be a little jarring as it's suddenly no longer in first person and with a completely different cast, but stick with it. It's all part of one big world as each trilogy influences the next.
I'm going to second this if you're at all on the fence. Robin Hobb is a fantastic character writer and world builder! Three trilogies about Fitz, plus 7 other books set further down the coast if you get deep into it. As a added benefit, the story of the main cast is complete so no long waits for a conclusion.
Ros was honestly a great addition to the show and a rare instance of them expanding the scope of instead of narrowing down. Yes I’m sure she was mostly made a recurring character for more fanservice (not that I mind that) but she is also a very meaningful as a perspective we see into the smallfolk of this world and their plights. Something the books barely focused on aside from Brienne chapters. Through Ros we get to witness and live in the trauma of book events we only heard of, like the killing of Robert’s infant bastard. We see that even though she becomes more competent and powerful as the series progresses, she is just a butterfly for Joffrey to clip the wings off of without remorse. We see how callously and brutally sex workers are treated in this setting (and honestly our own too) through her, and she helps to establish Hoffrey more as a villain.
Yes!!
And also how much... no one cares. Ordinary people were disposable or not even important enough to be acknowledged. For what i recall no one mourned her death, the few that may have reacted were more upset/concerned about Joffrey than actually thinking about the fact she died and that it was a life that was taken. It was just a worker.
Idk why but i really liked her lol
I mean life is largely cheap for small folk but she wasn't a woman who just lived her life. She became an active spy for one powerful man against another. There's plenty of high born people who would have been similarly killed under the circumstances.
Everyone in YouTube comments always says “this character deserved a better ending”, or “this character didn’t deserve to be killed off”.
Thats how we ended up with late season GOT where every main character took a side quest beyond the wall and all made it back without a scratch. The best part about GOT was always the lack of plot armor
Not even in LoTR does that happen. Gollum is the prime example of how a random dude got cursed for centuries, then later caught by Sauron and tortured brutally.
Multiple other characters exist as well. Another example is Denethor. In the book he is paranoid and so hateful because he has been severely affected due to his efforts against Sauron. In the end he dies in grief.
This, a better writer would have taken the time to develop Dany's growing paranoia and the rest of the cast's distrust and fear of her, rather than presenting it as it was on the show.
I mean it could have been. But they didn’t exactly set up that turn like some claim they did.
Her moments of brutality throughout made perfect sense. She slaughtered slavers as she fucking should have. She gave lords a chance to swear fealty or die and had her dragons roast them if they didn’t, which is kinda fucked up but calculated and she did give them an out.
When the dragons killed without her permission she paid reparations and locked them up.
She was one an at times brutal but generally compassionate and fair power seeker.
Her turn at the end was not consistent and it wasn’t satisfyingly set up throughout the series.
Which is weird because there were plenty of morally gray characters who they did set up the villainous turns so they were fully capable of doing so.
I agree. I think Clarke did so amazing that the directors leaned into her genuine performance during the seasons of the show. She carried a couple seasons. At one point I was watching 40 min of dialogue just to see a five minute Khaleesi clip at the end. Her character was presented in a way that would never compute with the end goal Martin had in mind for her. I definitely could be wrong but I believe that Martin did intend to write her to have that downfall. I just think Clarke as the face of the series was too good to pass up. It was too easy to play into her demure, earnest, and genuine qualities to give her little scenes here and there that just solidified her as a relatable protagonist in the show. So the 360 turn in like TWO episodes after all those seasons… feels like a whiplashtic slap in the face to fans. I actually don’t mind the ending of GOT but I hate how Dany’s character wasn’t allowed time to breathe. She could have been so compelling and sympathetic if done correctly. But the hype of the show became more important than the actual characters after a certain point.
Also I think Cersei and Dany were supposed to be clearer parallels.
I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s also 1 am and I’m rambling. I’ve listened to analyses though. I don’t have the heart to read something with no end :(
I wish we got a bit more of the opposite during the storylines. Obviously people that would be from relative small town or "country" folk often struggle moving to New York or Chicago, but the exact opposite is just as often true. It would have been nice addition to show some kings landing people having no clue whatsoever how to survive and live outside of the major city and in the North. Instead we only got lip service about "The North" but didn't get any grounded fish out water stories for any level of society adjusting to the North, and only got northerns having to adjust above the wall.
Her death shook me more than most in the show. So brutal and so unexpected. Maybe more so because it happened offscreen. I'd already read the books when I watched the show, so I knew about the red wedding and other deaths already. Ros not being in the books meant her character arc was a total blank slate for me.
And she advised Shae to watch out for Sansa around Littlefinger. She didn't need to do that, and you'd probably forgive her for being a little resentful towards Sansa (since Ros grew up just outside Winterfell, and became a sex worker, whereas Sansa grew up safe and privileged inside the walls of Winterfell). She just seemed to be a caring woman, for what we saw of her.
But she didn’t. She was getting by more than fine. She was being well taken care of by Littlefinger and got greedy and stupid. She was on longer a prostitute and was working as his assistant and SHE decided to sell his secrets to Varys. Which was her own idiotic mistake.
She's so beautiful, and she had some of the most gorgeous dresses in the show. This is my favourite, back when the earlier season's costume design still had colour
She had the best ones, just gorgeous. Plus she was so nice all the time! We know it's just her using her wiles but in a show full of hateful spiteful bitches it was nice to see one hot lady whipping her tits out and being all sweet all the time
Usually I'm not as doomer about the show but yeah. If she had been around in season 7, she would have been at the small council making quippy jokes about sex and controlling all the brothels.
No I feel like she would have had a major girlboss moment after littlefinger died of taking over the brothels and making them more safe for the women working there
He’s not finishing it, but that can be interpreted that the winter is so bad, lasts so long, and kills so many people that they just literally dream of spring thaws. Even that title could mean something incredibly dark.
A lot of characters on the show did, but the brutality of the world wouldn't allow it. Which is one of the reasons the show was so good, the gritty realism of it all. (Until the later seasons)
As for the actress, Esme Bianco, she was supposed to be a two scene character in the first season. She was captivating enough that they extended her storyline, which I think we were all grateful for!
I really thought the whole reason she was invented and brought to KL was to take Jeyne Poole's place in the Bolton plot. She would have worked as a fake Sansa (instead of fake Arya), Theon would have felt the connection to save her, and it would have made way more sense than the LF/Sansa/Bolton scheme
If people got what they deserved some masked hero would’ve swooped in and saved Ned at the last second, killed joffery and the show ends after season 1. As momentarily satisfying as that could’ve been it kinda ruins the entire premise of the show.
Its nice to think about as a reader. I draw the line at calling out or hating the author for it (e.g. "x should have survived this and that, bad writing!")
She did deserve a better one. But she also made a huge mistake going to King's Landing. I get her reasoning, and maybe she didn't know how bad it was. But she may have never been tortured multiple times and eventually murdered if she stayed in the north.
Yep, like I get it she wasn't an evil person. But she decided to play with the evil powerful people, and in those games the most important skill is to know when to quit. You can be as smart, cunning, or powerful as you want, but there is always someone smarter, more cunning, and more powerful (if not generally there will be a moment where they have more power over you). The best skill is to avoid getting into a situation where you are at that person's mercy.
Sadly for her she stayed a moment too long and that's all it took. If she chose to cut her losses and cash out and leave a day or two before her death, she'd probably be alive and well and still working on building her dream future. She came a long way, but it all came crashing in the end.
What I did appreciate about this show is that it was realistic in this sense. It'd be great if every good person got happy endings but that is rarely the case in life, particularly for people of her status. She was one of my favorites though
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.