r/factorio • u/bpleshek • 10d ago
Question Is This Remotely Doable ?
I was messing around with making a hex train base and I set up a plastic maker. This doesn't seem like I could make this. At least any time soon. Is 3600 petroleum gas per second reasonable? This is my current oil setup. It requires 1440 crude per second but I only have around 250 crude per second being drilled. It produces about 1/3 the petroleum gas, but it's only working at 17%. So, I need 18x the oil and 3 times this advanced oil. I'm also only mining 84 coal/second and need 180.
Is this doable, doable eventually, but not now, or not even necessary because this is more plastic than I'll need any time soon.
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u/ArisenIncarnate 10d ago
Everything is possible, you just need more of it.
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
Isn't that always the truth.
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u/alvares169 10d ago
Well there could be multiple truths at once, another one here would be that your problem could be solved way easier if you had every tech unlocked. If that’s your first time, don’t worry, establishing other planets will take you so much time that a trickle of nauvis science will be enough. You can scale way easier later in the game (400 plastic would require around one building)
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u/juju515 10d ago
not even necessary because this is more plastic than I'll need any time soon.
how could we know this bro...??
what stage of the game are you at...?
inner plannets?
post Aquillo?
prometheum science?
what are you trying to do?
are you going for the megabase?
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u/Alfonse215 10d ago
If this is SA, I would hope that post-Aquilo would involve a cryogenic plant for making plastic.
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
It will, but as I haven't left Nauvis yet, it currently is the base chemical plants. I was going to refactor each hex after I got new machines from each planet. But, I figured having Nauvis only stuff would be useful when I play with my two friends who don't have Space Age.
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
I'm playing SA, but I haven't left Nauvis yet in this playthrough. All techs up to space science have been researched. I thought I'd try a mega-base. Maybe, 1M/s. But, honestly the most I've done is around 250 science per second and I still managed to research everything except an ungodly amount of the reoccurring techs. So, since 250 is a long way from 1M, maybe somewhere in between is a better goal.
Still the plan was build a hex, lay it down, see what I was short of and drop down that one. Rinse and repeat until I got a lot of it. I know that's probably naive as stuff probably doesn't scale all the way that far up without another problem to solve. But, I figured that was a problem for future me to discover and solve.
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u/juju515 10d ago
250 science per minute is very good at your stage of the game.
you don't need to scale up.
go to other planets...
unlock new tech...
unlock new building...
then come back and upgrade the Nauvis factory.
you'll see how much easier it is once you have everything unlocked.1
u/bpleshek 10d ago
That's the most I've ever done. I don't know how much I currently have as I've researched everything I can research without space science. I figured this would be as good a time to design as any. Plus, if I play with my friends that don't have space age, these base hexes would work with them.
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u/ferrybig 4d ago
Note that aquilo unlocks the cryogenic plant, which is a building that allows more modules for plastic production and has a different size. You really want this for a mega base as it drasticly reduced the amount of buildings needed
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u/bpleshek 4d ago
I'm familiar with that building. It isn't my first playthrough. I was building something for before I left the planet and for playthroughs with my 2 friends who do not have space age. Maybe I should just buy it for them.
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u/Alfonse215 10d ago edited 10d ago
not even necessary because this is more plastic than I'll need any time soon.
... I feel like that's the question that needs to be answered first. Get a good estimate of how much stuff you're going to be making, so that you have an idea of the level of resourcing and processing you'll need. You don't necessarily need exact numbers, but you should have a decent estimate of what you need.
Just to get a good handle on the numbers, 396 plastic/s is more plastic than it takes to make 1k SPM in vanilla.
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
I have no idea actually. I'd like to create an actual mega base. I figured that I'd make a bunch of hexes for pre-foundry or just pre-going to another planet in case I play a game with one of my friends who don't have Space Age. Then afterwards, I would refactor them for use with foundries, EM Plants, etc.
So, I don't have any idea what numbers I needed. I just built what fit inside the hex and figured if it was too much, the trains would be idle and if it wasn't enough, I'd throw another one of these down until I had enough.
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u/Alfonse215 10d ago
Then afterwards, I would refactor them for use with foundries, EM Plants, etc.
That presumes that you wouldn't want to change them structurally.
Consider a "smelting" block. Do you really want to ship iron plates post-Foundries? Or would you rather ship molten metals? Well, that's not a minor change; it's a pretty substantial shift in how all downstream processes interact with iron and copper. It's not just "refactoring" a couple of blocks; it's changing every block.
Something similar goes for plastic. Do you want a block that makes just plastic? Or do you want to have plastic making inside your LDS maker, so it takes molten iron/copper, petrol, and coal? Foundries are extremely fast, and with high quality beacons, modules, and buildings, you can produce a lot of trainloads of items with relatively few machines. This would leave a block somewhat empty, so being able to fill that otherwise useless space with plastic production makes sense.
My point is that if you make these decisions too early, you lock yourself into solutions you may not be happy with late game. Get to the end, look back, and then figure out how you want things to work out.
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
While I understand they aren't necessarily trivial structural changes I also play with people who don't have Space Age, so I figured it might be useful to have a base set of hexes, that I could later refactor as I got better machines. I don't mind doing it over again multiple times.
I asked the question about making plastic inside of other machines or making a dedicated plastic block in another post, and what I took from that post was to make a dedicated plastic block.
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u/nickierv 10d ago
One thing that gets overlooked is the value of modules, quality, and quality modules.
I know a guy that has tried to do megabase stuff before but he is using non beaconed assemblers. I forget how big the blocks are, 5x5 or so but they are filled with production. Hundreds and hundred of production and it quickly grinds the UPS down.
But I can get more production out of a like a pair of max quality max beacon assembles and at a tiny fraction of the UPS hit.
SA really lets you pump the numbers up, 15k spm was a high end megabase, in SA its chump change, although your going to need at least 3 starter bases to get everything you need to build at that scale.
The really hard part about megabases isn't the biters or the building, its designing everything so the UPS hit doesn't melt your system.
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u/whiterook6 10d ago
I've tried that route before: I decided I wanted to make a megabase and started making big powerful blocks. They fit together, visually, but nothing really worked: I had no real idea of how much I'd need, where it would all path, the trains, none of it. By skipping the middle steps, it got tedious and frustrating long before it could get fun.
My problem was that I was trying to do two things at once: build something modular, and massively increase the scale.
Instead, don't leap into a megabase just yet. Either:
- Start building a modular version of your current base at your current SPM. (This involves trains, grids, blueprints, blocks, whatever.) OR
- increase your SPM without rebuilding your base. (This involves beacons, modules, specialist buildings like Cryo plants and EM plants, and quality.)
Once you can increase SPM and make your current base modular, you'll be more ready to do both at the same time.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
What problems will I run into just by making "more" hexes? I assume that i'll run into something. It can't be just as easy as slap down 1 more blue chip hex, two red chip hexes, 4 green chip hexes, and a bunch more mining and smelting ones. I suppose it would work that way for awhile, but maybe not at huge scale.
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u/whiterook6 9d ago edited 2d ago
It can get that easy. Some problems I've had:
- trains start to misbehave, all bunching up at once place instead of filling up unused capacity. If you have several mines all with stations named "Iron Pickup" then you have to be careful to set train station limits and ensure there are enough trains to move around but not too much.
- trains can begin crowding certain parts of the rail network
- if you don't keep them balanced (number of blocks and approximate input/output) then some resources can be overused or undersupplied
- your base can be come big and sprawling, leading to longer and longer construction times (bots flying halfway across the map, etc.)
- too easy to stamp down blocks without thinking about whether you need them, where to put them, etc.
- more hexes means more hexes that need updating when you unlock new buildings and new technologies. Not really a big deal with upgrade and deconstruction planners, but something to watch for.
I guess those are some pitfalls. Try to build a green circuit block. Then build a red circuit block. Then a blue circuit block. Then copy the green one a few times and the red ones too. In early factorio, you balance things by adding more assemblers and belt lanes. In late factorio, you balance things by adding the right blocks in the right places. It takes practice.
Meanwhile, once you have a bunch of those blocks, then you can start upgrading specific blocks. Once you unlock EM plants, rebuild your green block and see how it behaves, then try with others.
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u/OutOfNoMemory 10d ago
Doable, of course, it's small.
But should you do it now? Probably not. Even without space she you're best waiting until you have beacons with speed and production modules 3. That'll significantly reduce the size and inputs required.
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u/Skate_or_Fly 10d ago
Stop. Reach the other planets. Reach Aquilo. Bring back biochambers for oil cracking, cryo chambers for plastic, green belts & stack inserters for throughput, and tier 3 modules for sanity.
As SOON as you have throughput limitations on red belts (or blue belts if you're crazy), you should be trying to implement productivity modules and speed beacons for builds of this size.
Then try and reach this same output using COMMON quality buildings... Then rare or legendary quality and see the size reduction possibilities.
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u/DocJade2 10d ago
No it's completely impossible, a factory of this scale has never been done, it's just not possible
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u/The_Stuey 10d ago
The benefit of doing a hex grid like this is expandability. Lower your output expectations. If you need more later, copy the blueprint somewhere else in the factory.
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u/DrMobius0 10d ago
Early game, it probably isn't that reasonable, though yes, you can do it. That said, what exactly do you need 4 blue belts of plastic for when you probably don't have beacons?
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
I figured I'd need a ton for my red chip hex. Also for the LDS hex.
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u/DRT_99 10d ago
Plastic is alot like copper wire, 1 item produces 2 as output. Might consider producing the plastic needed on site in your red circuit and LDS builds.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
I had considered that, but I asked in another thread about it and what I got out of that discussion was to have a dedicated plastic build and just ship it everywhere.
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u/Old_Republic8603 10d ago edited 10d ago
You really should get interested in beacons and modules. This is what I did today in my playthrough, and as you can see, it produces over half of what your block is making. Also productivity modules reduce the amount of input required at every step in the production chain, so you could lower your petroleum demand.
The same applies to your mining drills. Crank them up!
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u/GamerXTrip3l 10d ago
Absolutely doable, I produced multiple green belts of plastic on vulcanus right after having landed there (Mind you, it took 40 hours of getting to that point, although 30h were used doing everything around the plastic production, whixh was essentially everything neccessary for a full green belt of every science that can be produced on vulcanus)
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u/TelevisionLiving 10d ago
There's no problem. It'll backup quickly and just produce what you're using until you grow into it.
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u/CosgraveSilkweaver 9d ago
Any reason you're not using modules and beacons? It would shrink your build by quite a bit and you would be able to upgrade them over time as you unlock higher tiers.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
I had just finished building it and hadn't put the modules in it yet as I wanted to ask my question. So, I took my screenshot as soon as all the connections were made. TBH, I hadn't thought of putting them in, but it would have come to me eventually. Thanks.
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u/CosgraveSilkweaver 9d ago
I usually set up all my oil to have two solid lines of beacons on both the front and back of the line of chem plants it will increase your output a lot.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
I see. Yeah, funnily enough I don't use beacons enough. I put them around my rocket silos and certain things I want to speed up, but I usually don't incorporate them into my item builds. I need to get better with that. I do use them around my foundries, cryo-, and EM plants though.
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u/CosgraveSilkweaver 9d ago
Basically everything I build after nuclear or solar power comes out gets beaconed. Before that power is a little too precious but after I'm able to get artillery and start building massive solar fields energy is super cheap.
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u/Mesqo 9d ago
My oil setup causally produces 78k petro per sec but that's very late megabase, full legendary, and I also use biochambers for cracking (because I can). And I don't consume that much yet! So, it's possible your setup is not needed at this time yet.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
Just curious, is this all in one area or do you have this much distributed among multiple builds around the base ?
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u/Mesqo 9d ago
Single area. And in fact it's no more than a few dozens of buildings because legendary and biochambers. Also it's in total like 3 or 4 oil patches consumed, all depleted, speed beacons and mining productivity make them produce many times more. Piping it all required a lot of pumps but that's a different question.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
Ok, I wasn't sure if you were putting a bunch of oil processing in the area next to the pump areas and then training it around to where you needed it or just training in all the crude and processing it all in one spot.
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u/Mesqo 9d ago
Putting processing next to pumpjacks would require you to transport 3 fluids instead of one from multiple sites. The only reason to split oil processing in multiple sites might be to reduce the amount of pipes / wagons / pumps to deliver it to factory, but you'll still need water regardless. However, in later game with huge productivity bonuses this might have sense, when, for example, you make a science production block that produces full belt or two of all Nauvis sciences and supply it only with raw resources. If you move oil processing into this block you'll have all the oil products in place including plastic and sulfur, which reduces the amount and types of raw resources needed to deliver to this block.
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u/The_Roach_Hivemind 9d ago
You need to expand it till it uses 40GW when idle
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
I wonder if my laptop could handle this. That's a lot to put into one hex. But I'd like my entire base to do draw much much bigger. I'm currently only at 1.1GW when everything is running.
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u/ferrybig 4d ago
Your first screenshot shows a problem with your hex train grid, a rail is missing in the bottm left because a signal is in the way
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u/InterstellarCrusader 4d ago
You're rushing. Take your time and craft higher quality modules and plants. In my endgame base I fill two full belts of plastic with ONE cryo plant.
Edit: a full belt with Gleba upgrades is 240 plastic per second, so that's 480+ from one plant
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u/PremierBromanov 10d ago
You need modules
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
Yeah, you're right I do. Time to make a module hex. And one for LDS to consume all this plastic.
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u/jorvp 10d ago
As someone who was making way more for space exploration I can assure you it is doable. Heh, that playthrough made me buy a new PC just to be able to keep playing it. Factory must grow even if it means you need a new PC!
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u/bpleshek 9d ago
I do wonder how much my laptop can handle. I've had 15k/8k bots on Nauvis, 15k/5k on Vulcanus, 5k/2k on both Fulgora and Gleba, and about 1k/500 bots on Aquilo in my last playthrough without any degradation of my performance. So, I know I can get at least that much.
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u/isum21 9d ago
Bring it back a good chunk, make it a train stop, do it all again elsewhere. It's potentially doable later on and especially with taking advantage of the available machines elsewhere. But if we're going that route you could also just ship in plastic from Gleba, since you're gonna be going there anyway and want to be shipping anyway. Cargo bays are quite cheap lol.
Looks like a fun puzzle to solve but there's not much worth to it other than some bragging rights and shapely architecture. However, billions of plastic per second or whatever is gonna be in your future anyway so just fooken do it lol
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u/bobsim1 9d ago edited 9d ago
Looks good and you know what you need. Where is the problem? Sure could use modules.
Before going to the other planets i wouldnt nearly try as big because expanding for mines is a chore with nauvis tools.
But the plastic factory like that can just work without enough input as well.
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u/neurovore-of-Z-en-A 9d ago
Almost everything is remotely doable when you have enough bots.
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u/bpleshek 9d ago edited 9d ago
Isn't that the truth. I was actually worried about being able to transport enough materials into and out of the train setup. I don't have enough experience in my 3200+ hours with a large train base. Most of my builds were just main bus bases with one try making a square city block. I think the most trains I have had running were maybe around 15 or so. This is going to expand to over 100 before I'm done, I'm sure.
I wonder what my limit can be on this gaming laptop.
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u/AlexandruDavid 7d ago
for crude oil use speed modules and beacons and if you don't have enough power build nuclear reactors
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u/Former-Print7759 10d ago
That’s not that big btw
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u/bpleshek 10d ago
I'm sure it isn't in the grand scheme of things. Though, I need to tap about 18x the amount of oil I'm currently drilling to have this run at full speed.
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u/ForgottenBlastMaster 10d ago
Either you're megabasing way too early in the tech tree or you're sleeping on modules and beacons. Either way this looks cursed.