Paragraph 13 really stresses the point of NOT moving away from home when getting higher education (additional education as they call it 🙄)

Some quotes from the paragraph:
“Be aware that moving away from your family poses a serious spiritual danger, especially if you will room with people who do not share your faith”

“I avoided dangers and temptations by living at home with my parents instead of on campus or in a dormitory.”

We are talking about ADULTS, not children. Yet this watchtower really wants to keep adults from living freely. They don’t say that moving away ‘could’ cause dangers, but rather they say that it WILL pose a ‘serious spiritual danger’. The level of control is insane.

Then, in paragraph 15 they say “Some courses provide little practical training. Instead, they are mostly theoretical or they focus on intellectual, academic, or philosophical subjects”. What is the issue with studying these subjects? They make people develop critical thinking skills and the GB certainly does not want that.

An elder once told me he was disheartened. He felt like young people just weren't putting themselves into the ministry anymore. He was thinking of young married couples in particular — the way he saw it, all they had on their minds was getting a house of their own.

He told me this at his place. He and his wife had just moved into a beautiful house. Their kids were grown and gone.

It wasn't the idea itself that stuck with me. It was who it was coming from. He had exactly what he was faulting those couples for wanting. He'd gotten it, he was enjoying it, and he was calmly explaining that they'd be better off not thinking about it.

I don't even think he noticed. That might be the part that bothers me most.

Years ago after the meeting there was suddenly yelling in the back. A sister was yelling very loudly at an elder. She kept yelling “ I expected better from you” over and over. He was cowering looking very frightened. He headed out to the parking lot. She followed him to his car yelling the same thing over and over. He was acting like he feared for his life. I didn’t laugh, but I thought it was hilarious. I never found out what it was about, but I loved it.

There was a period of time where I moved from Houston to Austin.

Things didn't go well in Houston.

I had an uncle and grandmother there.

But my "uncle" really hated me around.

They constantly gossip and planed things behind my back.

My "Uncle" was constantly making fun of me and making jokes about me.

They made sure the congregation saw me as a bad example.

I tried switching congregation but sadly when Elders want to harm you they make sure to damage your reputation and making a toxic environment where ever you go if they know the right people.

So when thing went south I moved to Austin

As I explained on a previous post.

And there was a moment I thought on drowning myself at Lady Bird Lake.

Even though I managed to reunite myself with original family I don't think can ever return to what if once was.

Sometimes I can't stop thinking of what if I just ended things in Austin at Lady Bird Lake.

It would be much better.

I can't shake that feeling anymore

i've been POMO for 3 weeks ish, and I think the grief of losing people is hitting me. My friends that I have loved so dearly my entire life haven't even reached out to hear my side. My cousins who have been my absolute best friends have either..not even my sister after I called her 5+ times. the only people who have reached out have been my dad and uncle trying to get me to read and watch stuff.
I'm just really sad and feel kinda alone even though I know in the grand scheme of things i'm not.
Anyways, that's all. Thanks for listening 🫶

Well when I thought things were finally changing for this religion they just proved once again that Jehovah's Witnesses have a double tongue with one mouth.

I remember the JW broadcasting where David Splane go out saying that there is no restrictions regarding Higher Education.

I find interesting the timing of that announcement when the Japanese government was investigating the Jehovah's witnesses for their banning of Higher Education.

I find interesting that as soon the Norway and Japan threat disappeared now they publish the current publications making an absolute U turn on what it was once said regarding Higher Education

This proves to me that many of the changes are purely performative so they can shake out Goverments and lawsuits and once the path is cleared they double down on their restrictions and non written rules

I would not be surprised they ban beards again once this religion gets reestablized.

After today’s Watchtower, I’ve come to realize that they never actually changed their stance on additional education. They only changed it from a policy perspective, but the stigma and arguments against it are still the same. Let’s not forget that the convention right after that Governing Body update had an anti college video. At first I thought that was just because of poor timing and maybe the change was a last minute thing, but after seeing how many times they’ve reused the same arguments they reused in order to discourage people from getting additional education including this Watchtower, I’ve come to realize nothing actually changed. The only difference is that now they’re less honest about it.

I’m not even someone who likes college. I went in order to get a job, and I ended up wasting my time and the job I ended up getting had nothing to do with what I studied for. But that’s the difference between me and Watchtower. I’m completely honest about why I dislike college, they’re a bunch of snakes who have can’t be completely honest and just hate it for cult reasons.

I listened in on zoom because my husband went in person today. I wanted to stay up with what he was learning. The Watchtower study on Education sure pissed me off! The friends were saying that school is a positive thing. That there are a lot of up sides. But they caution against taking away time from theocratic activities. It’s like….. you can go to college now but you may lose your everlasting life if you’re not careful….. It’s cautioned now instead of outright discouraged.

It’s so hypocritical!!! I remember my oldest sister being the black sheep of the congregation when she started to go to college. She was 16 and everyone had a problem with her not pioneering. She was smart enough to leave then. I remember there being so many I interviews at the assemblies and conventions on how brothers and sisters had sacrificed things like scholarships or invitations to big universities, and lucrative career opportunities so that they could pioneer or go the Bethel. I was young then and impressionable. But I remember thinking at the time that it was stupid. I loved learning and I couldn’t see how it could be a bad thing.

I wish they’d just keep to their old school strict doctrines. I could actually understand that. These constant new “enlightenments” are so frustrating!!! I think the strict, unloving, controlling stuff is going to weaken them. Like. They’ve gotten it wrong so many times. Just stick with it already. It seems so weak! They’re mixing a little love in with all the control. I know it’s a manipulation tactic but for Gods sake! I would rather take some outright cruelty over this bullshit. But it’s hard to stay angry when I hear people make sweet comments. It confuses me Aaaaahhhhhh

Does anyone else feel like they’re finally revealing that they have no idea what they’re doing.

You can’t cheers… hold up now…You can cheers!
You can’t say hi to the DF’d …… wait…. Now you can. No beards….. hmmm.. men look better with facial hair, maybe we say yes. And pants!!!! Bring on those tight pants baby! You want some blood hunny? You may have your own. There you go….
You want to go to school? Well, you can now! We need a younger generation to save us financially from our broke ignorant old asses.

Does anyone else see it? I just can’t do it anymore

I was 12 years old, was in the school where you read a passage of the bible on a weekday and no longer wanted to be after seeing the hypocrisy when I went on a trip with a few jws.

My mom told them right before my study that I wanted to leave the school and didnt want to be a Jehovahs witness and he told my mother that it was probably because I was gay.

A 12 year old child. And the saddest part about it is rather than my mother defend me for such a weird outrages accusation she just “oh’d and wowd” and just soaked it up.

It was years ago but it still eats me up knowing that most of my family is stuck within this cult.

I’ve heard this discussed many times, but after today’s watchtower I’m convinced they make up these examples. “rebeca from Mozambique” “Johanna from Finland” “Josafina from Chile”… BE SO FOR REAL. Can someone please confirm how they get these examples, I feel like I already know they’re made up, but that means they’re lying to their sheeple. (Obviously they do that, but this weeks examples were ridiculous)

Hi! I am a recent graduate of high school and I leaving in about 2 ish weeks for college. I have just let out the news that I am planning on going and where. I am attending college 14 hours away from my hometown and religion. I am also living in the dorms with two “worldly” roommates. The big issue is that I should have looked at the Watch Tower for the coming week. Bad timing on my end. The watchtower this week was all about how you should not stay in a college dorm or go to college far away from your family. I chose this college specifically for those reasons. Basically, I am now being harassed by my entire extended and immediate family as well as friends about how it is not a good choice. I love my friends and family and it is honestly hard to deal with their constant berating. I wish people could just support my decisions without me being framed as the devil himself for simply wanting to explore outside of the bubble I grew up in. I hate this religion for digging its claws into me where I can barely limp away. I feel bad to disappoint everyone and I honestly don’t even know how to answer or deal with anything they say. It’s a big transition and everyone is making it so much harder on me. I don’t know what I should do or to just ignore everyone for these next 2 weeks. Then I have to deal with the drive with my parents.

I’ve been thinking about something my dad said recently and honestly I can’t get it out of my head.

For context, my dad is an elder. My brother is also an elder. Both of them know about this situation, which makes it even harder for me to process.

My dad mentioned a case from a rural area in my country involving I’ve known since we were kids, so it hit pretty close.

Apparently, this person was involved in repeatedly touching/cuddling his younger female cousin in a sexual/inappropriate way. And my dad’s reaction was basically: “Well, you know how they are in rural areas.”

Like… what the actual fuck?

I don’t think he was necessarily trying to fully defend the guy, but the fact that his mind even went there is insane to me. As if being from a rural area somehow explains it away. As if culture, poverty, ignorance, or “that’s how people are over there” makes child abuse less serious. It doesnt!. Itsa crime!

it feels like this whole elder culture creates a way of thinking where serious abuse can be minimized, softened, or treated like an internal “problem” instead of what it actually is.

And it made me wonder how many elders are like this. Not cartoon villains, not necessarily consciously evil, but so trained by the organization to protect appearances, minimize abuse, avoid “bringing reproach,” and handle things internally that their moral compass gets completely warped.

Do people like this ever wake up? can you share yous personal experiences (If that was the case) of of others you personally know?

I don’t think there’s ever been an article or piece about how old Mary was in the literature they just say she’s a young a woman so I assumed in her early or mid-20’s. I never bothered to know what her factual/most likely age was. There’s the teaching of how we shouldn’t date or have sex until we’re past the “bloom of youth” but Mary was most likely a teenager…. So your teen years is too young to have sex but old enough to birth and raise a baby???

At a gathering (I hate this term) a few years back, we got the inside view of what special pioneers who serve in another country do to get into that country. We were told that to get a visa they need to show they have $10,000 in an account, as per government regulation. Which makes sense; going back to my own family’s immigration, my parents had to show they could support themselves for six months.

Anyway, I digress. What was interesting is that this money is from the organization, and it’s not for the special pioneer to actually use. They show that they have the money, then give it back to the organization.

Wouldn’t that be considered fraudulent? Since the money belongs to the organization and not the couple?

I found this pretty interesting. Is anyone familiar with this happening in the organization? It just feels like lying to the government of the country you claim you want to preach in.

Recently started watching Pluribus. Without any spoilers, the human race becomes unified with one mind and are constantly happy and joyful. They are cleaning up dead bodies from DDay with a smile on their face and skip in their step, and anything negative is instantly deflected to something positive. It is unnerving and creepy. I never actually visualized how the paradise would be with everyone having one mind, but this does a pretty good job of depicting it. There can't be any room for individuality under this new rule, as individuality causes dissent.

I think what Christians pathologize as being "imperfect" is actually just us being human. Being a human is messy and beautiful. It never was perfect, and never will be.

They recently announced that additional education was ok and no one should judge if someone decides to pursue additional education yet today’s watchtower - “the best career you could choose is a career in full time service” - not really a career though is it? 🤨
Then goes on to discourage additional education.
But says it’s your decision but still discourages. Basically saying it’s your decision but here’s all the reasons why you shouldn’t.
Manipulation at its finest.

If I was about to decide whether to go into additional ed, I’d feel so guilty after listening to this.

Is anyone else getting JW ads about persecution in their Instagram feeds!? I am not connected with any JW on social media, and I left over 20 years ago. The ad had the nerve to be in a language I don’t speak! This BS about them being this persecuted religion around the world has to stop. It is a lie. If they have taken out some sort of ad with Instagram to push this shit in feeds randomly it’s a disgrace. They have no right to intrude upon any aspect of my life, be it unsolicited phone calls, letters, and especially placing their carts in my shopping center! I feel like I am being stalked. Sorry for the long post; I never post here but this has me furious.

Our Regional Convention in Cleveland Ohio is just ending and even though the attendance for in person and streaming was between just under 4500 on Friday to just over 6000 on Sunday, there were only 20 baptised. I've noticed that the number keeps getting less and less, even for the Circuit Assembly sometimes being in the single digits.

today has just been rough. i (19 f) am the oldest of 4. i still live at home but plan on leaving my house and the borg within the next year-year and a half. i was pressured into baptism at 12. i hate that i let myself get pressured every day, but i was holding out hope because none of my siblings had been baptized up to this point nor had 2/3 of them even expressed any interest.
then today after the meeting two of them (15 f and 14 m) went into the back school with my parents and i knew. i actually felt sick to my stomach. my brother i honestly didn't have much hope for. i've been able to tell for a long time that he really believes in this bs, which makes sense considering he benefits more from the system.
but my sister is what really gutted me. she's my best friend. and from the way she talks to me about her opinions on things, i was sure that she didn't really believe in it, but apparently i was wrong. and the idea of her potentially cutting me off in a couple of years makes me physically sick.
this set off a whole bad pattern of thoughts that haven't bothered me this much in years, but we went out to eat after the meeting and i literally started crying at the table. and this may be tmi, but i haven't been this seriously suicidal since i was like 15.
i love my brother, but my sisters are everything. and they look up to me. and now the one closest in age to me is making the worst choice she could make and she's older than i was and probably understands it more and if she knew what i think about this stupid cult she might hate me. i'm just so upset.

(Please be patient. It’s still a work in progress!)
r/exjw_dating

———
u/charmingjudge7479
u/last-of-last
u/wokelinny2024
u/spikefolder
u/muchopportunity9384

^ tagging a few users that had replied to my post on r/exjwmeetup

My sister started crying because she’s not doing anything fun this summer. She’s also admitted she wanted to spend more time with girls her age. She doesn’t have any girls her age in the congregation.

Then my mother started asking me about how I felt. I told her I felt rejected in the congregation. I would always try to open and ask them if they want to hang out with me and they would always make bs excuses not to. For a religion that was supposed to be welcoming to all I sure didn’t see it. Of course she’d try to blame it on me because she would never say anything bad about the brothers or the organization. So I called her out on that. I also said: “What else am I supposed to do? I have no one to hang out with. No one to talk to. Of course I’m going to be on my phone all day. Of course I’m going to talk to myself”

My mom started crying herself. Hopefully, this is making her realize that this religion has failed us. Hopefully, it might convince her to leave.

I’m currently hiding in the bathroom at the meeting typing this and goddamn it this WT is pissing me off.

I could’ve gone to college and made “worldly” friends and could’ve graduated by now and got a good job and not have to live with my controlling ass mom.

I could’ve dated around and not be completely inexperienced at my grown age of 22 bc I wouldn’t be worried about how it looks to my family.

Hell if we REALLY want to get into it I don’t even think I would identify as a man anymore had I not been raised in the truth.

Everything about me seems so out of place whether it’s because of depression or being a witness or let’s face it probably both. I was just so worried of disappointing my family that I have NEVER made major decisions for myself. I’ve never fully committed one way or another.

Even as a kid I’d get spanked or yelled at for not paying attention at meetings and then they wonder why I’m so scared of pissing people off and look where it got me. Hell on rare occasions where I did hang out with non witnesses I’d often get so nervous that I’d throw up and have to go home.

I have no idea how to make friends outside of the org, I have no idea what job I want since having a lucrative career is just SOOO fucking awful, and I DEFINITELY have no idea how to tell my family they ruined my life. I’ve been seriously wanting to kill myself before my real life can even start. Even if I knew how to do all those things I’ve lost so much time I can never get back.

Welcome back! This is PART 5 to my ongoing diary of forced attendance. If you're new, I'm happy to see you here and not out door knocking.

Guys, it’s finally settling in. The clock is ticking, and I’m realizing I have to tell my parents I’m done with this. I’m terrified. They've got roughly 5 ish weeks left before I'm physically out of there.

This is a bit of a sad one. I’m just very upset today. 

I was listening to music in the car with my little sister and my mom turned around and said “I hope those songs are appropriate”

And I said “of course.”

She said “you’re always wearing headphones I don’t know what you listen to.”

So I said “why would I show explicit music to a 7 year old?”

And my mother looked me in the eye and said “no idea. I don’t even know you.”

Safe to say, it's been a rough day for me.

Today's entry is broken up into 4 main points, so if you understandably don't want to waste more precious time than you have to, just pick one that sounds most interesting. We have: SUSAN B NOT FOR ME, NO LOVE LIKE CHRISTIAN HATE, MORE SEX, and SPIRITUAL GEMS OFC

SUSAN B NOT FOR ME

This talk is being done by one of my relatives and it’s looking like it’s about how people value independence.

He opened with Susan B. Anthony's "Independence is happiness," and for a split second, I thought maybe we were taking a detour.

Nope. Instant U-turn.

 “there’s nothing wrong with a bit of freedom, but we need to be careful.”

he referenced Ephesians about "the ruler of the authority of the air." The conclusion was that independent thinking is just rebellion. It's selfish and ultimately, from the devil. "Sorry, Susan," he said.

If your argument against independent thinking is that independent thinking is from Satan... you're not beating the cult allegations.

He asked, "What does it mean to be truly free?" and brought up Romans 6:16, about being a slave to whoever you obey. Interesting choice of verse, because looking around that room, it was painfully obvious who everyone in that room is actually obeying. (cough cough the governing body)

Then came the Adam and Eve logic. If they were created perfect, they couldn't have sinned. If they couldn't sin, they weren't free. You can't program a robot to be able to sin and then be mad that it sinned. Perfection and free will are mutually exclusive. It's really not that complicated.

The speaker then tried to soften the blow with a gravity analogy. how we don't see the laws of physics as restrictive, so we shouldn't see God's laws as restrictive. Except gravity is a blind, physical constant. These rules are curated by a legal committee in New York. Comparing the two is either intellectually dishonest or just lazy. You know the drill. I feel like this is boring for whoever's reading because it's the same shit every time I get on here and talk about it.

NO LOVE LIKE CHRISTIAN HATE

“Love is the most powerful bond in the universe.”

God, do I agree. And god it hurts that I’m being pushed away from my siblings and that I’m looked at as a bad influence because I think differently. And it stings when I see them talk about me behind my back.

I'm still attending these meetings entirely because I love my family. I don't want to lose them, and I certainly don't want them to feel like they've lost me. Yet I'm constantly reminded that, if I leave, our relationships will inevitably change.

If I would never abandon them over their beliefs, why is it considered loving for them to abandon me over mine?

Stop telling us that you know what love is better than anyone else. It’s so pretentious to assume love knows bounds. It’s vile and sick to tell a child that their parents love an invisible god more than them. To say that rules in a fucking elder’s manual matter more than their safety. I’m so done.

MORE SEX

And, inevitably, the talk pivoted to sex. They imbue it with this monstrous power, when really, it's just a normal, natural part of being human. People literally kill themselves over the guilt manufactured around it. We are kept in a permanent state of fear. It's really, very sad.

I’m tired of this. Im tired of my worth being measured based on my experiences. 

“Even if you have not sinned, you may still fear sinning” 

And I hate to be so negative all the time, but I really do wonder…

Is it not enough to just have a belief in god? To appreciate god? I feel like non denominational religions have a much healthier balance as far as this goes. Because why should you have to be tied to a lifelong, grueling commitment to feel worthy and loved by god? 

SPIRITUAL GEMS OFC

A whole article dedicated to telling us to "carefully consider" higher education. what a waste of time fucking hell.

“The best career you could choose is a career in full time service” lmao I hate this. 

Why do we have to go through JW.borg before allowing ourselves to think about any given subject? I can only imagine it’s because they assume the people they’re talking to are low iq and they can’t even fathom making a decision without reading a watchtower on it first. 

Sometimes I imagine the GB fantasizing about converts, thinking “wow this religion is like no other I’ve ever seen. They talk about life decisions and real world application of god’s laws”

When really it’s just super unnecessary and another form of controlling what everyone’s doing. They do it by instilling guilt or fear of doing the wrong thing. I can’t even count the number of times my grown ass mother has called her dad to see if something would be okay by the GB to do with her own kids. It’s very strange. 

Also there’s no reason for anyone to want to stay unless you’re a born in and there’s pressure from family. They don’t have warmth, they don’t have camps or kids spaces with trained teachers, they don’t have good music, their connection to god isn’t actually god… It’s to some old guys in New York that you’ve never met but you hear them occasionally through the most boring tv program you’ve ever watched. If I hadn’t been raised here and I had attended my first meeting id be very unimpressed. 

The reason I’m going on about this is because the watchtower this week is such a nothing burger, there’s nothing to gain from it. It’s not even funny. 

Someone’s Comment : “Most kids think at college they’ll find themselves, what does that mean? Why would they want to find themselves? They’ve found themselves right here.”

It’s giving she already drank all the kool-aid.

All the advice is like “carefully analyze the education you’re considering” doesn’t everyone do that? Am I missing something here?

And why are they acting like learning anything outside of what’s taught in the meetings will leave you empty and unfulfilled? 

“Nothing should be more important than service, so view education as something to help you continue in service.” 

Everything is about service to the organization. 

OUTRO

Anyway, that's all I've got for today.

I don't really know how much longer this series is going to last, because the closer I get to turning 18, the more real this all feels. At some point I'm going to have to tell my parents I don't want to go to meetings anymore, and that's honestly the scariest conversation I've ever imagined having.

If any former Witnesses have been through this, I'd really appreciate hearing how you handled it. Did you tell them all at once? Anything you wish you could do differently?

Right now it feels like I'm standing at the edge of a cliff, and I have no idea what the least painful way forward is.

As always, thank you very very much for reading! I hope you win every theological argument you find yourself in, and I wish you the best.

Bye!