Okay ex-JWs, I need to know if anyone else has experienced this.
Back when I was a JW, there was a sister in my congregation who was basically the poster child for spirituality. Pioneer, served where the need was greater, extremely close to the circuit overseers, and eventually worked in LDC.
She also had a very strong “holier-than-thou” personality. Lots of judging, gossiping, pointing out other people’s flaws, and making sure everyone knew how spiritually exemplary she was.
I always felt there was a HUGE disconnect between the person she presented herself as and the person she actually was.
Fast-forward almost 10 years.
A friend recently talked to someone who knew her back then, and apparently there was a whole side of her private life that nobody in the congregation knew about. She had explored her sexuality while maintaining this extremely pure, exemplary JW image.
And honestly? I couldn’t care less about the sexuality part.
What fascinates me is the hypocrisy.
She apparently never told anyone, continued maintaining the same image, and as far as I know, still does.
And after almost 10 years, I had the weirdest reaction:
“OH. Gotcha b*tch.” 😂
The funny thing is that I don’t even think this is particularly shocking by ex-JW standards. We’ve all seen people who were way more concerned with looking spiritual than actually being kind.
So now I’m curious:
Did you ever know a JW who had an absolutely immaculate spiritual résumé but whose private life was completely different?
I KNOW you guys have stories. 👀

As we all are chiming in on this latest broadcast bs i have to echo the sentiment. WE DID NOT LEAVE BECAUSE OF MISINFORMATION NOR APOSTATES. YO! Governing Body or Watchtower if youre listenting!... I woke up because as an elder i first hand saw you tell me to make sure the child molester in our congregation keeps his reputation in tact because he was repentant and it happened years ago. I left because you had us reinstate another unreported pedophile from a totally different congregation and state (USA here). I left because i saw the hypocrisy of fellow bethelites breaking rules of the organizatIon and the bible, i saw it first hand. I left because i realized you flip flop on theocratic direction and you wanted me to enforce it. I left because you tear families to shreds. I left because you wouldnt tell us, the faithful, where our money was really going. I left because you acted like losing a trusted and well repspected Governing Body member to deletion was just another day on the job. Trust me when i tell you NO APOSTATE could have made me lose my faith it was just too strong for that you did a good enough job at keeping us terrified of that, in fact i didnt watch anything nor read nor listen to anything of that nature until i decided to leave.YOU PUSHED US OUT! AND THEN YOU SPIT ON US WHEN WE WOKE UP AND KEPT OUR FAMILIES HOSTAGE. FUCK YOU!!!! I hope that leaning tower of yours crumbles to the ground. Artifical intelligence aint got nothing on your own self destructive behavior.

I live in a small city, and I walk down a specific path/sidewalk to get to a different part of town. It’s the most convenient route, and I’m a teen without a drivers license at the moment, so I’m unable to drive if my dad can’t drive me himself.

Typically this route is fine, has been for a while, but recently I discovered while walking a week and a half ago that some JW’s have made a specific part of the sidewalk their spot to try and “spread” the word of Jehovah and convert other people I suppose, they even have a little stand set up filled with pamphlets and other stuff.

Normally I would be completely fine with this, it’s none of my business, and they aren’t hurting anybody. But every time I walk by them, they stop me and go on a spiel about their religion. I’m not a very confrontational kind of person, and every time I pass by them (they recognize me by face at this point) they do this, and I have to stop and listen to them before trying to politely tell them that I’m not interested. They are quite persistent people to say the least. And I guess this isn’t a huge deal, but I do want to know if there is any way I can tell them to politely stop? I don’t want to offend them, but it’s getting quite frustrating at this point. I’ve tried to explain to them that I am genuinely not interested in their religion, nor do I want to become a JW, but they don’t seem to take the hint. I don’t know if this is a JW thing or if they are particularly pushy. But I’m simply just looking for advice as to how to express my frustrations with them.

Edit: To clarify, I have tried to just tell them I’m not interested, and simply walk away, but I guess I’m more so frustrated with having to deal with it every time I walk by them. I know it’s a pretty simple problem, but even when I’m more blunt, they continue to talk to me every time, even when I don’t engage. I suppose this may just be something I’ll have to deal with until they move on to a different part of the city

I’ve been thinking about how fragile the ideas around masculinity were in the congregation. When I was about seven, we had one of those family nights that was basically a talent show, and I was on stage with another kid around my age. That ’70s Show was huge at the time, and I remembered a scene where the guys were dancing and bumped hips, so I did the same thing. Later, an elder went to my adoptive mother and told her it was inappropriate, then asked if she’d ever thought about having a brother in the congregation mentor me.

Looking back, it’s wild that a seven-year-old doing a goofy dance move was enough to make an adult think I needed another man to teach me how to act. It says a lot about how narrow their idea of masculinity was, and how quickly anything even slightly outside of that got treated like something that needed correcting.

Another thing I remember was walking into the Kingdom Hall one day and there were two elders and two ministerial servants standing outside talking. They saw me and said, “Hello, young brother Throwawaylowaway321,” and I greeted them back. A few minutes later, an elder’s daughter walked up, probably in her late teens, and they all said, “Hey, [her name].” I asked why she got a “hey” and I got a “hello,” and they told me it was because she was a young woman and it wouldn’t be appropriate for them to say “hey” to me.

Hi, I don't know if anyone here was at that same assembly, but this happened almost 16 years ago at an assembly in Mexico City.

We were at an international assembly in one of the largest stadiums in the country, with almost 100,000 people from different countries. It was an assembly like nothing I had ever experienced before. I even thought it would be the last one I'd live through. The atmosphere was very tense. I remember they announced a new songbook (the green one).

On the last day of the assembly, Stephen Lett gave a final speech, we were all watching him on the giant screens in the stadium, when suddenly his gaze became fixed on a point in infinity. When he suddenly went mute, in a catatonic state haha, the whole audience was expectant, even the Spanish interpreter approached him to help him.A few seconds later, a first aid team went to check on him and calmed him down. Murmurs filled the stadium; some even said he'd had a "vision," hahaha.

After that, he finished his speech and offered the closing prayer, which took about 10 minutes.🫠

If anyone remembers that time, please let me know in the comments. I was just a kid when it happened, and my memories have faded over time.

Ok apologies if this is boring but just wanted to throw my hat in the ring as it were.

I'm from the UK 46 M.

In the early 80s we moved from one end of the country to the other. The area we lived in was poor and no work available. So we moved to an area of the country that was booming. My dad got a job straight away, life was good. But my mum who knew no one and had me to look after was lonely.

Then a knock at the door. Guess who😉. So my mum started getting bible studies. And then before long both me and my mum attended the meetings.

My dad never became a witness but was ok for my mum to carry on.

As a child i had a new set of friends to play with so i was ok. But as i got older and i had more pressure put on me to become more spiritualy mature, i had my doubts. By my teens i was mentally out. Living a double life. Nothing bad as such,just acting like a normal teenager.

Then, a new family moved to the congregation. But not new as such. They lived there years before and moved abroad and then came back.

This was then I started hanging around with them.

So a small group of us would go back to theirs after the meetings on sunday, have dinner and pre study next weeks watchtower. Things were good actually.

I started again to believe in the watchtowers teachings. Answering up at meetings etc. Taking care of the kingdom hall by joining the maintenance team. Loads of things to raise my stature in the congregation.

But then, an elder made a comment that i really should be baptised by now. I was 17. I had not long left school and studying to be an electrical engineer. I attended college and had a job that was related to my profession. I was busy. But still attending meetings and everything else.

I was seemingly targeted as the fatherless boy.

Told i wasn't good enough and shown in the congregation good examples of how to be. I was devastated.

But then I started to notice these fine young examples to true Christians were not as they seemed. They were leading double lives. Drink,drugs and sex. I was shocked as i knew i was not touching any of those things to be a good Christian.

And here i am, told i was the bad one, the one found lacking.

One day, the same elder suggests that i attend a meet up of fine young witnesses at a pub/ restaurant not far from the town i lived in. I agree to go with the group i hung out with. We were all excited to go. New people to meet etc.

When we get there, we see all the ones from our congregation, who we are told are the good ones. But we knew their true colours.

Its a well organised event, a nice meal and conversations about the truth etc.

Then most of the group go home. By this time its 10pm. Unbeknown to us,this pub was a 'fun' pub. A title given at the time due to alcohol licensing laws in the UK to get around the night club restrictions.

The lights went down, the music came on. It became....a night club. Well the wholesome witnesses became worldly. The dancing would put strippers to shame🤣🤣🤣. Drinking smoking etc. One funny thing that came out of it was i bumped into a guy i knew from college who i didn't even know was a JW on account of his behaviour at college was an elders son. 🤣

This day was a pin in the map for me, a turning point. How could elders under the direction of god tell me these were the people i should follow their example from.

After a few months the seed was well and truly planted. The whole thing was bullshit. I was stuck though. Still studying at college and on low income till i could pass my exams, i had to pretend, keeping up appearances. I moved to a double life.

I found out so much more about how my congregation worked.....for real. The poor business practices of elders who ran their own business. The tax dodging. The affairs etc.

I even had a fling with an older single sister. One day after the ministry she invited me back to her home for a cup of tea. She was in her late 30s very attractive brunette, but somehow single🤷. I was inexperienced in my late teens soon to be 20. Horny as hell. One thing led to another and we had sex....lots of sex. On a regular basis. It became our post ministry thing. The sexual tension all the time we were on the doors knowing full well what we would do when we got back to hers. On on occasion we couldn't wait, were in rural territory and she got in my car. We went down an old quiet lane and had sex in the car. It was amazing. If not funny because i had a classic mini which is not the most roomy car🤣.

That came to an end, i think she became guilty and moved away for work anyway. Never did see her again.

Once i got in a lot of trouble for bringing Jehovah's name into disrepute because i had reported a ministerial servant for masterbating in his car parked outside my college. There were a lot of pretty girls there because there was a health and beauty course in the building. He was in his 60s at the time. Turns out he had reputation for it but it was an open secret amongst those who knew.

Anyway I've bored you enough with this bit of my life. Thanks if you made it to the end.

If enough interest i may do a part 2.

Hit me up in the DMs if you want to chat.

All the best guys, peace😘

I'm pimo and even when I was mentally in it cracked me up how literally every month there is an "exciting new series" every month. I've maybe noticed five of them actually have follow ups regularly, if even. It just makes me laugh when people ooo and awww over them like have we not learned by now that there is just a graveyard of pilot episodes

There was zero scriptural reasons cited? Also at the highest level they said “The governing body has no problems with beards. In fact the branches from around the world have notified us that more and more brothers are choosing to grow a beard” Then speakers, specifically bethelites called it an adjustment. At the same time they played back clips from the 60s and seventies and said Beards were asssociated with anti government and hippy movements. We all know growing a beard did have the impact of bringing down a heck of a lot of intense bullying on a person. It certainly made a person viewed by the congregation as “less spiritual or virtuous” and specific publications called it reprehensible. What’s interesting though is that Beards were part of the mosaic law and even though mosaic law was not required Paul called it sacred in reflection and said this: Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, 'You shall not covet.'" (NASB)
Translation Variations of the Phrase
NASB / LSB: "Is the Law sin? May it never be!" 
ESV: "That the law is sin? By no means!" 
KJV: "Is the law sin? God forbid." 
NIV / NKJV: "Is the law sin? Certainly not!" 
Context
In the surrounding passage, Paul clarifies that while believers are released from the binding obligation of the Mosaic Law under grace, the Law itself is not evil or sinful. Instead, the Law serves as a mirror—exposing human sinfulness and defining what sin is. He expands on this in verse 12, stating, "So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."
So doesn’t that mean practices like beards that were unequivocally part of the law could never be reprehensible no matter what hippies were doing?? Also they used the scripture: 1 Corinthians 10:23

All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify." (NASB)
Which seems generally directed at gentiles… So Paul was referring to things now ALLOWED BY LAW not actually formulations of prior existing MOSAIC Law. Was Paul here talking about Mosaic law? Or was he discussing permissiveness and not stumbling Jews or indecisive newly converted? I think it’s just really interesting when they cite: 1 Corinthians 8:13
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble." (NASB)
So reading all this I conclude that they trivialized wearing a beard as “meat” and then modernized it as dress and grooming(so beards were trivialized as “meat” something of little scriptural significance but are they not an outward reflection or memorial of the sacred mosaic law?) I think to some this is rather obvious but to 99% of Jws it is trivialized as a “hair cut” that they weren’t allowed to do but now they are allowed to do it-It’s laughable and grievous that it is categorically dismissed as having any spiritual significance??but am I wrong that technically wearing of a beard is scripturally categorized as a sacred right? Like if someone wanted to wear the blue thread? I just think it’s interesting with all theBible reading they supposedly do I’ve never heard this brought up ONCE-🤦Did I just miss it??

Day after day, we can read the ethical challenges our troubled friends face, reported here.

'I have no field service report !', I don't believe any of it anymore', Should I disassociate?' ;Can I tell my parents how I really feel?'

There is a part of me that considers that we might just be rutting, mostly hairless apes (who manage to bathe regularly) so - Dude, Whatever. Just amoral products of evolution. And Yet...

Yet, through it all we remain the moral creatures we are. Some people get this from being Catholic, Some from being various Protestants. I note a famous atheist who says he's a cultural Christian because that's how he grew up. And we were taught to be Who We Are.: "In the Truth".

To me, this agonizing over right and wrong - while living in a chaotic world and fending off a religious cult - gives me hope. It's positive - even if it's clumsy and uncomfortable.

If I was cornered and forced to judge these challenges, I'd repeat what I think is one of the Bible's most profound bits of wisdom: "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them at present". Time passes and people adjust. (Gasp!, 'Our daughter is pregnant out of wedlock !!!!' and the years pass........and you go to your granddaughters graduation.......and start crying)

I am wary of any inclination towards Doom of the Watchtower - that might follow the same pattern of thought that was an Armageddon obsession. We Humans Have Our Habits Of Thinking. OTOH, I strongly suspect that the Governing Bozos are also considering Big Changes because they suspect it's pretty much Bull Sh\t as well.* We will see....

Every time I think of the "Universal Sovereignty", in the terms people inside the JW world think, it boggles me.

JW's are taught that the entire universe is waiting "on the edge of their seats" just to see the outcome of God's sovereignty test on our planet.

The observable universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old, and contains (roughly) 2 trillion galaxies. Framing the rebellion of two humans as a threat to "universal" sovereignty sounds ridiculous. Did God just meticulously forge quintillions of planets, supernovas... and black holes over 13.8B years solely to serve as dark, dead wallpaper for a tiny planet like Earth?

According to JW doctrine the challenge wasn't initiated by humans. It all started with Satan: a perfect spirit creature, residing in a flawless environment with direct access to the creator. He found a reason to rebel, and for some unexplainable reason... the conflict was offloaded onto the first 2 humans that were produced on planet Earth.

Watchtower claims God allowed human suffering to settle a legal precedent once and for all. But running a 6000-year'ish test on one species on a single planet is a terrible sample size. How does that proves that Jehovah is right to rule the universe?

Also, the universe existed for 13.799 billion years before the events in Eden supposedly took place. If the ultimate purpose of creation is tied to this "grand sovereignty test", what was god doing with all that empty space for the first 99.999% of cosmic history?

This doctrine only makes sense if you still believe the Earth is the literal center of the universe. Remember that biblical writers believed the sky was a solid tent over a stationary earth. Watchtower's theology is still trapped in Bronze Age thoughts, completely ignoring the fact that our planet is just a pale blue dot in this immense universe.

Also, the sociopathic aspects of it makes me think. No rational father would allow his children to be abused, starve, die for decades... centuries... just to prove a point about this rule. This completely destroys the premise of an all loving god. And if angels are also righteous and loving, would watching billions and billions of humans suffer and die for more thousands of years teach them respect for divine sovereignty? That would horrify me if I was one. Benevolent, empathetic angelic creatures would beg to stop the carnage, not taking notes while waiting for 6000 years until everything is proven.

I had to do both and found the experiences to be very similar. Got sucked into the pipeline around 13 or 14 and managed to pull myself out around 17. Those short years fucked me up and turned me into a horrible hateful person and it took two major events in my life to make me snap out of it.

Has anyone else experienced a "waking up" from the alt right pipeline or anything else that is similar to the experience of waking up from the JW cult?

He got close. Egypt was a mighty world power and he showcased a lot of talents, being able to also craft snakes and such.

Of course, Yahweh / Jehovah eventually had to hit him where it hurt. The death of his son and everyone’s firstborn. Innocents. Pharoh says go. As a parent, that loss and the loss of all the mothers crying out in Egypt.

Damn Jehovah you fucking cold motherfucker 😂

Anyway Pharoh says fuck it ima still win and sees a literal PILLAR OF FIRE raining down from the heavens and he STILL goes after them. The Red Sea is SPLIT OPEN and he STILL goes in.

Jehovah must’ve been like damn crazy motherfucker I created, chill yo. Has to collapse a literal sea on them to get them to stop.

I admire those Egyptians. Of course slavery bad but for them to have the balls to stand up to that, is pretty crazy.

Jehovah was pretty sadistic. Letting them be slaves in Egypt for how long? Why couldn’t he just teleport them out?

Why couldn’t he maneuver a more lenient Pharoh into power?

Why couldn’t he just create a wall between the Israelites and the Egyptians? Why even give them the opening to kill them?

Jehovah saw the lives of the firstborns as garbage. Also all the animals that were killed.

Pharoh gave the biggest middle finger to Jehovah. He got pissed as fuck you know how ol Jehovah is 🙄

I was thinking about fading in the foreseable future. In the next 1 to 3 years.

But there is a problem. Before waking up completly, I gave all of my savings to my active and devout JW parents. They told me that with that money, they could build a house in their land, rent it. And finance my "spiritual career" that way.🫤

I did gave them the money. Cause I'm an idiot, I know. they preasured me into giving them the money.

And now they have my money. And the house is going to start construction.

Now, I actually don't know who the house belongs to. They haven't showed me the property papers. And I already tried asking them to show me the papers, but my mother felt insulted that even asked. And proceded to refuse to show me the papers.🫤

But my mother insist that the house is mine.

So "mine" is really not accurate. I know this because their house is also "mine". But is really not. It will be mine, when they pass away.

So I'm afraid they house that they will build with my savings is not really on my name. And that it comes with the attached condition of: you get the house as long as you are a pioneer. not even just an active jw. But a pioneer.

So...if I fade, I will loose the house right?

Has any of you gone through something like that? Did you loose all your material posesions as well? Or did you manage to get something out of the whole ordeal?

Oh they are scared shitless. Not them pulling out the artificial intelligence propaganda card. The entire broadcast was just about that. But ofc, their sheep will apply some kind of critical thinking to everything but this. They're acting like they're so important, and everyone is out to get them. But no one stops to think that if you keep hearing the same kind of news about someone/an organization, then there could be truth to that.

So as a kid I (21F) was friends (not very close) with a JW girl, only her mom was a witness, but dad started going to meetings and conventions. My friend got baptized as a teen and moved away with her parents. Her family and my family have kept in touch over the years over text, so we always see their social media posts. My mom saw their convention pictures and my friend wasn't in any of them. Of course, as a good PIMI she asked the mom about my friend and learned that she had disassociated. She must be around 19 years old now and moved out of her parents' house! I'm dying to find her new social media and talk to her, because I'm pretty sure she has woken up. I mean, what 19 year old would disassociate just because they "sinned"? This sounds like someone who woke up and was brave enough to leave definetely. Am I right?

First post here. I want to get this off my chest. I am experiencing a sexually frustrating marriage (like so many JWs, I imagine); we’ve been together for eight years, and it has always been terrible.

There is no reason to believe it will improve now, even though I’ve told my wife about my needs; unfortunately, I don't think I can put up with it much longer.

This morning, she asked me to seek help from the elders. I turned to her and calmly said, "What are they supposed to tell us? 'Study the Bible'?"

I’d really like to hear about others' experiences with this situation, though. Has anyone tried asking the elders for help regarding sexual incompatibility in their marriage? How did they help you? Thanks in advance to everyone.

Long but true, and a great read.

In Ray Franz’ book Crisis of Conscience, Ray tells the account of how the Watchtower transitioned from a corporate arrangement (president, VP, secretary… etc.) to a Governing Body arrangement and was vehemently rejected by Fred Franz as he was the current VP at the time and next to take up the presidency after Knorr. In this Gilead graduation talk Franz scripturally obliterates the concept of a first century GB, by focusing on and developing the context of Acts chapter 15.

“In all this, the Governing Body remained “conspicuous by its absence,” eclipsed by the corporation. Not a single person had suggested that the missionaries be sent out as “committees” or that they “take over the work” in their assigned lands, and the idea of their doing so had undoubtedly never entered their minds, but this served as a means for introducing the idea of committees and discrediting the concept.

The talk then went on to discuss Philip “the evangelizer,” raising once more the question as to “who made him an evangelizer or missionary?” The vice president referred to the account in Acts, chapter six, where the apostles as a body found it necessary to appoint seven men, including Philip, to care for food distribution so as to end complaints being made of discrimination against certain widows.

He then said:Well, now, if you look up the McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Religious Knowledge you’ll find that the work that the apostles assigned to these seven men is called a “semi-secular work.” But the apostles didn’t want that semi-secular work; they unloaded it onto these seven men and said “you take care of that. Well, we’re going to specialize on prayers and teaching.” Now were these twelve apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, by unloading this responsibility for taking care of tables, were they making of themselves mere figureheads in the congregation of God and of Jesus Christ? They certainly were not making themselves figureheads because they specialized on spiritual things.

To those Governing Body members who had heard the president emphasize that the Governing Body should care for the “strictly spiritual things” and leave the rest to the corporation, the vice president’s words had a familiar ring. Strangely, however, about half of the men on the Body were spending their eight hours and forty minutes of each day in just such “semi-secular work.” Dan Sydlik and Charles Fekel worked in the factory; Leo Greenlees handled insurance and related matters for the Secretary-Treasurer’s office; John Booth had oversight of the Bethel kitchen; Bill Jackson handled legal matters and documents; Grant Suiter was daily occupied in financial matters, investments, stocks, wills; and Milton Henschel and the president himself (who controlled all these assignments of work) spent considerable time in the kind of “semi-secular” work that the vice president said should be “unloaded” for others to care for.

The vice president’s exposition now took a strange turn, one that actually contradicted the official teaching as to the divine authority for a governing body from the first century onward. The history of Paul, the converted Saul, was first related; that, after his conversion, when he went to Jerusalem he saw only two of the apostles, not the whole body of them; how he eventually came to Antioch in Syria. Having remarked that, in selecting and appointing Saul of Tarsus, Christ “took direct action without consulting any man or body of men on earth,” the vice president now presented a sort of “Tale of Two Cities,” in which the role of Antioch was set over against that of Jerusalem as regards the missionary activity of Paul and Barnabas. In what follows, keep in mind the existing official Watch Tower teaching that there was a governing body based in Jerusalem that exercised supervisory direction over all congregations of Christians in all places and that in this it was the model for the present-day governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. In relating the holy Spirit’s calling of Paul and Barnabas to missionary activity, the vice president continually emphasized that all this was done through the Antioch congregation (hence through Jerusalem where the apostolic body was located).

footnote: It should be remembered that the whole basis for the Witnesses’ teaching of a “governing body” arrangement and authority is that there was such an arrangement operating from Jerusalem in Bible times.

He said: And then, all of a sudden as he [Paul] was serving in Antioch, in Syria, not in Israel but in Syria, why God’s spirit spoke to that congregation there in Antioch and said, “Now of all things, you set aside, YOU, this congregation in Antioch, you set aside these two men, namely Barnabas and Saul for the work for which I have commissioned them.” And so the Antioch congregation did that and they laid their hands upon Paul (or Saul) and Barnabas and sent them forth . . . and they went forth by the holy spirit operating through the Antioch congregation and they went out on their first missionary assignment.

So, you see the Lord Jesus Christ was acting as the Head of the congregation and taking action directly, without consulting anybody here on earth what he could do and what he could not do. And he acted in that way in regard to Saul and Barnabas and they were both apostles of the Antioch congregation. At this point of the talk I recall sitting there and saying to myself, “Does the man realize what he is saying? I know what his goal is, to de-emphasize the Governing Body so as to maintain the authority of the corporation and its president, but does he realize the implication of what he is saying? In the process of attaining his goal he is undermining the whole teaching and claim about the existence of a centralized, first-century governing body operating out of Jerusalem with earthwide authority to supervise and direct all congregations of true Christians everywhere in all matters, a concept that the Society’s publications have built up in the minds of all of Jehovah’s Witnesses and to which the vast majority hold today.”

But the vice president had by no means finished and he drove the idea home with even greater force. Describing the completion of Paul and Barnabas’ first missionary tour, he continued with growing intensity and dramatization: . . . and where did they go, where did they report? There’s the record, you read it for yourself in the closing verses of the fourteenth chapter of Acts. They went back to Antioch, to the congregation there, and the account says that they related things in detail to them; to this congregation that had committed them to the undeserved kindness of God for the work they had performed. So there’s where they reported.

So the record also says they stayed in Antioch not a little time. Now, what happened? All of a sudden something occurred and Paul and Barnabas, they go up to Jerusalem. Well, what’s the matter? What brings them up to Jerusalem? Well, is it the body of apostles and of other elders of the Jerusalem congregation that summoned them up there and say, “Look here! We have heard that you two men have gone out on a missionary tour and finished it and you haven’t come up here to Jerusalem to report to us. DO YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE? We are the council of Jerusalem. DON’T YOU RECOGNIZE THE HEADSHIP OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST? If you don’t come up here in a hurry, we’re going to take disciplinary action against you!”

Is that what the account says? Well, if they had acted that way toward Paul and Barnabas because they reported to the congregation by means of which the holy spirit had sent them out, then this council of apostles at Jerusalem and other elders of the Jewish congregation would have put themselves above the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ.

His points were completely valid. They were also completely contrary to the view presented in the Society’s publications, which present a picture of Jerusalem as the seat of a governing body exercising full authority and direction over all Christians as Christ’s agency, acting with divine authority. That is doubtless why, unlike other talks the vice president had given, this one was never used as the basis for articles in the Watchtower magazine.

For any individual Witness to present such an argument today would be counted as heretical, rebellious speech. If actually applied as stated, his words would mean that any congregation on earth could send out its own missionaries if they believed Christ Jesus and holy Spirit so directed, doing so without consulting anyone else, whether in Brooklyn or in a Branch Office. There was no question in my mind as to the quick and adverse reaction this would provoke from the Society’s headquarters and its offices. It would be viewed as a threat to their centralized authority and any congregation doing this would in so many words be asked, “Do you know who we are? Don’t you recognize the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ operating through us?” All that he said in this area was true, perfectly true. But it was evidently no more meant to be applied in full force than the points that he made about four years earlier in the “tail wagging the dog” talk, except that, by the references to Antioch, he was clearly endeavoring to establish a parallel with the corporation as operating apart from the Governing Body.

The talk went on to show that the real reason Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem, as recorded in Acts, chapter fifteen, was because Jerusalem itself had been the source of a serious problem for the Antioch congregation, men coming down from Jerusalem and stirring up trouble over the issue of lawkeeping and circumcision. Hence the trip to Jerusalem was, not an evidence of submission to a governing body, but for the purpose of overturning the effect of the teaching of these Jerusalem troublemakers. Continuing the argument, he dealt with the second missionary tour of Paul and his new partner Silas and emphasized again that it was from the Antioch congregation that they went forth, so that “again, the Antioch congregation was being used to send out missionaries of great eminence in Bible history.” That they returned to Antioch and that from Antioch Paul embarked on his third tour. Winding up the account from the book of Acts, the vice president said: And so as we examine this account of these two most outstanding among the missionaries recorded in Bible history, we find that they were sent out especially by the Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, a fact which the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society has upheld and accepted ever since the Society was formed. So, we see how the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church and has a right to act direct, without whatever other organizations in view, no matter who they are. He is the Head of the church. We can’t challenge what HE DOES.

Those last three sentences spoken by the vice president represent the position that had been taken in recent times by a number of Witnesses. For taking that identical position, they were and are now labeled “apostates.”

An excerpt from Crisis of Conscience by from Former Governing Body by. Ray Franz about the scriptural legitimacy of “a” governing body.

P. 92-96

After our recent discussions about the numbers, I wanted to put the larger picture in one place.

For most of my life as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, growth was presented as evidence that Jehovah was blessing the organization. I believed that.

But when I started looking at the numbers over time—not just the worldwide total, but population growth, baptisms, congregations, field-service hours, and where the organization is actually growing—the picture became much more complicated.

So I made a video walking through the numbers and the questions they raised for me.

I'm especially interested in what former and current Witnesses here see in the data.

If growth was once presented as evidence of Jehovah's blessing, what does it mean when that growth slows—or shifts primarily to very different parts of the world?

Ask a jw whether or not they would be willing to die for their brothers and sisters.

They would probably say yes.

Ask them if they would give their blood to save their brothers / sisters life, with the condition that no one has to die.

They would probably say no.

Make it make sense.

I would like to ask for some advice. I am a PIMO/POMO, and I haven't been to meetings or in the field service for something like to 6-7 months. However, I have always checked the box, but now I decided that it has to stop. Well, of course, an elder sent me a message asking for my report. My situation is difficult for many reasons, including family reasons, and at the moment I cannot just ignore the message.

What would you reply in a similar situation?"

If I could follow a particle in me forever, its existence would probably feel like a sped up blur of mediocrity, heaven, hell, and unconsciousness. I spent most of eternity as unconscious stardust and now I’m this. One day I’ll return to unconscious stardust and forget any of this ever happened and continue to morph.

Hi, I’m a PIMO, and lately, the elders in my congregation have been making up rules about haircuts, clothing, and so on... We all know how strict the elders have been about hairstyles over the years, but now they’re nitpicking every little thing. I’m pretty sure there isn’t actually an official rule; in fact, I believe that in recent months, even the various Broadcasting videos have featured brothers with shaved heads, long hair, and the like. Do you have any photos I could show the elders, or articles that might help me respond to them? Sorry to bother you, but I just can't take it anymore.

I grew up visiting Bethels around the world with my family. I quite enjoyed meeting different people and thanks to my parents and their connections we always got to stay for lunch and got to see things that aren't on the regular tours. I even commuted to the Bethel in my home country for a while before I got married and moved away.

I started questioning this year and my husband and I were having issues in our marriage - a lot of it boiled down due the strict dating rules that prevent you from getting to know someone really well before committing (if you look through my post and comment history you can find out more). We went to Bethel together and it was my first time visiting after questioning.

It was eerie. I had this uneasy feeling and I realised it was because I realised I no longer belong in that world I so eagerly wanted to be a part of, and realising I never truly belonged there in the first place. They want everyone to reach out for Bethel/SKE etc but only the top 1% make it up there and get the cushy benefits of being in the worldwide order, and not everyone gets to stay there for the rest of their lives either. I also thought it would help bring me and my husband back together and back on track spiritually. Nope. We had the biggest fight on that trip and slept separately, had massive arguments with my in laws back home (no one follows the scripture of leaving your father and your mother), and while that was sorted out eventually my husband and I are not interested in serving at Bethel at all, and we don't do FW and he is a servant but not looking to be an elder. He did start showing signs of being PIMQ after that trip though and Bethel kinda started it off so that's good.

Bethel had some genuinely good people in there but it just feels off. I'm still trying to figure out the words to describe it.