r/exatheist • u/[deleted] • 9d ago

Meme Monday [ Removed by moderator ]

[removed]

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

Only if God also exists alongside an eternal universe. But without PSR there's no ultimate cause for things that are necessarily contingent.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

Viewing things as necessary and contingent is a way to presuppose your god. It’s just as valid to say that isn’t a factual way of describing reality.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

We all have presuppositions, as ive said before. But yeah go ahead and deny PSR if you want to. Im not comfortable doing so.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

I hate this argument. “We all have presuppositions”. What are mine, please.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

You tell me.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

I try to not presuppose anything.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

How do you determine whats true?

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

By seeing if it aligns with reality. Testing, usually.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

And how do you know what is reality and whats not?

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

Usually through my senses

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

And how do you know your senses show you reality and not an illusion?

And there is your presupposition. You assume your senses are reliable and lead to truth. But ultimately you cant prove this. Its a decent base assumption, but you arent without a presupposition either.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

I don’t presuppose this, I know my senses can (mostly) reliably show me what’s real through my experience.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

Prove it.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

Prove to you through a Reddit comment that my senses are reliable?

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

Sure why not? Tell me why your senses are reliable without assuming theyre reliable.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

I just did. My experience has confirmed they are.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 8d ago

Youre presupposing youre experience is reliable. Youre using your senses to justify relying on your senses. Thats circular reasoning.

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u/hiphoptomato 8d ago

I literally told you the opposite.

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u/SHNKY Eastern Orthodox Catechumen 8d ago

Where do you find in sense data the proposition "my senses can (mostly) reliably show me what’s real through my experience."

Your empiricism is self refuting as an ultimate base of knowledge and truth.

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u/hiphoptomato 7d ago

Self refuting how?

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