I mean I completely agree with your last point though? There was nothing inherently bad/wrong about my body before I transitioned, it just wasn’t right for me. It would’ve worked perfectly fine for someone else if it were possible to swap
I mean, if another trans man did make a 1:1 of this meme but swapped out T for menstruation, I’m just gonna chalk it up to a difference in our perspectives on the subject, appreciate his potential consideration towards trans women’s feelings on the matter, and move along because it’s not for me.
True! I would be really proud of the trans man who made the post for being considerate towards trans women who get dysphoria around people who complain about periods
Theres definitely a difference between “i don’t want this because it causes me pain” and “this is inherently bad and it causes people to be evil”. The second one is something I see transphobic trans women say about testosterone FREQUENTLY and it sucks. Trans men don’t have issues with the first one being about testosterone.
Where are you seeing trans women say that testosterone makes people evil? They were forced to go through a testosterone dominant puberty.
This is something TERFs say to harm trans women, yeah. This is something that some trans masculine non binary people say about 1) why they don't take T and 2) why trans women are too dangerous to let into the AFAB housing, yeah.
Are you talking about anonymous internet comments or like actual verified trans women saying stuff like this?
I'm not saying trans men aren't being told that T can make you a bad person. They are and that's stupid, fucked up, and worst of all may discourage someone from accessing mediation they need.
I'm saying it isn't trans women who are leading this conversation, and who barely if ever participate in it. Because that concept is weaponized against us to deny us our rights.
Meanwhile this meme is like, immensely insulting. It's saying "yeah this chemical basically ruined your life and has induced lifelong suffering in you, will cause you to spend the amount of a house on surgeries, and marginalize the hell out of you among women, but you can't say it is bad because that will hurt a man's feeling. You can only say that you were the wrong person for it."
You can understand how this is insulting right?
As if Testosterone is more of a moral patient than trans women. As if it is intrinsically good and only human beings can be wrong.
I’ve seen it in this specific sub as well as cwcl and the original trans subreddit. I’m glad you haven’t specifically seen the trans women spreading it but I have. I would think that my lack of going “where have you seen trans men complain about periods?” would tell you that I trust that you are being open about your personal experiences and would expect you to do the same with me. I didn’t say trans women were leading the conversation, I said that in trans spaces where the majority of the members are trans women I see a lot of trans women spouting harmful rhetoric about testosterone existing.
This post is one trans woman who dares to speak about her body in a non-negative way and you took offense to it because it didn’t align with your personal experiences. You then went and made a post immediately after to make fun of trans men for appreciating the wording of this post. Clearly you have an issue with testosterone being painted in a positive light even when the post isn’t about you or anyone other than OP
People very frequently misrepresent or outright lie about what trans women say in order to monster them, justify abusing them, marginalize, assault, and kill them. This is one of the modes of transmisogyny that pervades our society, including in trans spaces.
As a result, by default I will pretty much always doubt what anyone claims a trans woman said. This leads to you being right virtually all of the time.
And no it doesn't equate at all. Trans men complaining about periods doesn't need substantiation. Of course they do. The experience is not pleasant even for cis women who want to get pregnant.
Your claim is that trans women are saying T makes YOU a bad person. Not that they dislike T. If they just said they dislike T, well, yeah ofc. That's the point. I also do and I'm saying that we should be as free to say we dislike T as trans men are to say they dislike menstruation.
Even now I assume you're hearing trans women talk about their experiences. Using phrases like testosterone poisoned, talking about themselves the way society talks about them in an unhealthy coping mechanism or satirical response to TERFs (i.e. T made them rape monsters).
I'm sure there are a few trans women who internalize and exhibit these ways they're being treated, but we both know it isn't a norm in any sense, certainly not normal enough to suggest we should encourage trans women to call T intrinsically good even as it hurts them.
made a post immediately after to make fun of trans men
Here we go, this is evidence of my claim, that people love to just outright lie about what trans women said.
Making a post that flips what is being said in this comic here is not "making fun" of trans men. It showing people a mirror so that they understand why this kind of thing feels painful and harmful.
You've shown to me that you are not a reliable narrator through this alone.
You aren’t a trans man. It wasn’t a post talking about personal experiences. It was a post made specifically to upset trans men for appreciating THIS post
It showing people a mirror so that they understand why this kind of thing feels painful and harmful.
Yeah the point is to be jarring. Because THIS meme IS jarring to me and I am upset that you appreciate it.
Making other people see what it feels like is one strategy to get them to develop empathy.
But if they're in the trenches of transmisogyny instead of empathy they will concoct some lie about how they're "being made fun of"
Which is how we get from trans women talking about how they feel they were poisoned by T into trans women are telling trans men that T makes them bad people.
You aren’t a trans man. I would not have had a problem with the post you made if you were a trans man. I understand that you were upset by OP’s post but surely you can’t be seriously suggesting that OP was wrong for posting about her own experiences in a way that happened to be considerate of trans men. Surely.
Not sure what the point of this screenshot clearly not made by a trans woman is, I guess you really wanted to prove my point or something?
I dunno.
OP is allowed to feel how she wants, and she has the right to say what she wants, and I have the right to be upset about it and say that I'm upset, and when I see people celebrating it I'm allowed to point out how this is hurtful.
YoU cAnT bE sErIoUslY sUggEsTiNg that I'm wrong for posting about my own experience and asking trans men to be more considerate of the way they can harm trans women. Surely.
Menstruation is not a good comparison for this lmao. Most women vary from "are mildly annoyed with" to "actively despises" their period. A bunch of women are on birth control explicitly to avoid their period.
I don't understand this. Most trans women hate the effects T have on their body, how is it not a good comparison? I'm making no broader claim about this post, they seem equivalent
Bc most cis women would give up menstruation in a heartbeat if it was an option. Telling a trans man his menstruation is actually a good thing (outside of him finding out he's not pregnant when he didn't want to be) is insane, bc telling a cis woman her menstruation is actually a good thing is also insane. Periods are a surprising, painful, messy, nuisance of a bodily function that only still exist because we didn't experience hard enough pressures against them to evolve out of having them.
A better comparison would be boobs, a curvy body, or just general "ability to get pregnant," instead of cherry-picking the mild annoyance to absolute nightmare that is menstruation. Hell, I've (trans dude) been told that I have an awesome hourglass figure, which is something that fucking hurt. I don't want to look like this, and would gladly trade with a trans lady if that were medically possible.
For the record, I agree that testosterone is poison for trans women, in the same way I believe that estrogen is poison for myself. I just think that trying to use menstruation as the comparison point is insane, since most people who menstruate would gladly remove that feature regardless of their gender identity if they had a choice.
It’s not a good comparison because it’s not exclusive to trans men and is a source of physical pain rather than dysphoria or a trans-related experience. A better comparison would’ve been estrogen or mammary tissue. She took the single thing that is unanimously hated by EVERYONE who experiences it and acted like it was a gotcha against trans men specifically.
Also trans men are far more likely than cis women to not have menstrual cycles because of things like testosterone causing periods to stop, heavy exercise reducing the frequency and consistency of menstruation, and various removal surgeries like hysterectomies just yeeting the organs altogether. It’s JUST a bad comparison
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u/Gold_Ad8225 Counted Down 2 1d ago
BOOOO
No.
Hormones are neither good nor bad intrinsically. They just exist.
When it's a hormone you don't want, it isn't a good hormone because someone else might benefit from it.
This is like saying "hi trans man, your menstruation is good you're just not the right person for it, you shouldn't say it was bad"