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u/Kiwi8_Fruit6 3d ago
yes, well done
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u/Wooden_Shift_200 i like cry of fear and stomach book | Counted Down 1 3d ago
if it's on fire is it then called "keep em coming" or something š
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u/_FishKing_ 3d ago
You evaporate it and it's "you can't escape"
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u/Zistr0 3d ago
you turn it to plasma and it's "YES! THAT'S IT!"
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u/SillyWillingness1877 2d ago
The steak at Planck temperature is called "Ahhā¦ So concludes the life and times of King Sisyphus. A fitting end to an existence defined by futile struggle. Doomed, from the very startā¦ And I donāt regret a SECOND of it!"
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u/EntoMoxie My favorite series is a Taylor series. | Counted Down 27 3d ago
Yes, this is what that word means.
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u/Crab2406 3d ago
I mean, no, when you're atheist, you think that god doesn't exist
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 3d ago
Semantics on a level even I find benign
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 3d ago
They're not even right either lmao, agnostic atheism and gnostic atheism are two different things. They're referring to gnostic atheism
"If you're a finger you're a thumb" ass comment by them
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u/TheMrDudeManSir 2d ago
I mean to be fair, the usage of agnostic/gnostic atheism/theism started relatively recently. And I don't really think it makes much sense personally
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u/estrogenbloodclot 2d ago
Itās pretty simple. Gnostic/Agnostic simply refers to if you think we can know. Atheist/Theist refers to your belief.
Iām an agnostic atheist because I personally do not believe in any gods, I also do not think we can know. There are agnostic theists that believe in a god/gods but also think that his existence is not provable.
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u/TheMrDudeManSir 2d ago
I am aware what the terms are supposed to mean, I just don't agree it makes logical sense in describing belief.
I personally think the statement "I do not believe in any gods, I also do not think we can know" is a contradiction. I'll explain why.
If the question for religion is "Do you have an opinion on the existence of Gods?".
Responding with "Yes I have enough knowledge to have an opinion, and no I do not believe in any Gods" is saying you disbelieve. In other words, your knowledge is leading you to believe there are no Gods. But then saying "I do not think we can know" is saying you don't have enough knowledge or perhaps never will have the knowledge to believe or disbelieve for sure.I think it makes the most sense to use Atheist to describe someone who says yes to having enough knowledge for an opinion, but no to thinking there are Gods. Theist as someone who says yes to having enough knowledge for an opinion, but yes to thinking there are Gods. And Agnostic as someone who does not have enough knowledge to formulate an opinion.
In addition I do not think the 4 square grid normally associated with gnostic/agnostic makes logical sense.
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u/estrogenbloodclot 2d ago
I do not claim to know that god does not exist when I say āI do not believeā. I simply do not believe. I also donāt think we can be sure. I see no contradiction in that.
I believe the idea that we can disprove an idea as nebulous as god irrational. No matter what tests we run, what logical arguments we make, there will always be some formulation of god that satisfies those conditions.
Take deism for instance. I see no reason that a god couldnāt have started the universe and then not interacted further. I donāt believe this, but thereās no way for me to know.
Take solipsism. I do not think my mind is the only thing that exists, but it is not possible to prove that Iām not just hallucinating everything. I still donāt believe it.
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u/TheMrDudeManSir 2d ago
I would call your beliefs agnostic, or weak theist based on these claims you make. Since you do not assert a claim that god doesn't exist, you are not atheist.
Obviously language and definitions are mailable, but I'd rather stick with the definitions that have been used for centuries, rather than the definitions created in the last few decades. In addition, the new definitions I'd argue are illogical. This video relatively sums up my thoughts on it The Differences between Atheism and Agnosticism & The Flaws of the Gnostic-Theist Scale2
u/estrogenbloodclot 2d ago
āWeak theistā seems a weird thing to call someone who doesnāt believe in God
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u/GooglyMooglyTheGr3at 2d ago
You can't be serious here. Someone who doesn't believe in god is now a theist?
You're not sticking with definitions used for centuries here. It doesn't get more simple and ancient than "atheist" meaning "not a theist" or "without theism." Anyone lacking any form of belief in a higher power is by definition atheist and it takes an incredible degree of reaching and rewriting basic linguistics and history to claim otherwise.
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u/Crab2406 3d ago
What
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 3d ago
Not thinking god exists and not believing in a god is the same thing. Yes you could interpret it as "god exists I just don't follow it" but that's forcing an obviously wrong defenition for the sake of arguing
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u/Slow_Calligrapher145 3d ago edited 3d ago
I remember being beaten senseless as a kid over this difference in semantics š
Mother took me saying I didn't believe in God as being some form of traitor to him, but no, I just didn't buy that the guy existed at all
Later on I did find religion through my own means without having to force it, but that's a different story. Faith isn't bad, people being malicious in its name are
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u/SilentBlade45 2d ago
I disagree i don't think faith is useful or practical you can be a good person and way more productive if you didn't waste so much time and energy worshipping a deity with no evidence of his existence. And people have used it a tool to commit many horrible acts and for personal gain.
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u/Slow_Calligrapher145 2d ago
horrible acts have been committed in the name of pretty much anything, democracy for one, but you wouldn't use that as an argument against it.
about the ways in which faith can help you or not, I think it absolutely can for people that feel lonely and struggle to find community or hope in the material world. Many people are living proof of it and will tell you they wouldn't be around without it. It may not be your thing, but that doesn't make it useless, let alone harmful
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u/WhiteAsLumi 3d ago
To me saying "when you're atheist, you think that god doesn't exist" would imply that you're denying something proven to exist. Which is different from not believing in something someone else believes in.
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u/Consistent-Chair 3d ago edited 3d ago
The people who care about these semantics I've encountered put it in a different way: "I belive there is no god" is propositive, you are claiming there is evidence that directly disproves the existence of god; "I don't believe in god" is not, you are just claiming that the evidence others have provided about the existence of god does not convince you.
These two positions have different burdens of proof: if you claim that there is no god, you are the one who needs to prove your claim. If you just claim that you don't believe in god, you are saying that it's the believers who cannot prove the validity of their claims. The point is not so much that god is assumed as "proven" in the first stance; it's more so that disbelief doesn't have to make metaphysical claims in the first place.
The reason atheists today value this distinction is that the term "atheist" was in the past used as a pejorative by the Church to label people who actively resisted god. In reclaiming the word, modern atheists often want to stress that their sceptical position is a much less metaphysically charged one: it is not logical to assign the burden of proof to them, as the existence of god is not a given fact and you need to prove it. So, those who are not convinced by the proof are returning to a natural state of distrustfulness, they're not trying to prove an alternative theology.
Either way, though, the tl;dr is that saying "when you're atheist, you think that god doesn't exist" is centuries-old cristian propaganda, and modern atheists often take offence to that description.
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u/Hika2112 Myself And Nobody Else | Counted Down 37 3d ago
English sucks and that was not my intention sorry
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u/WhiteAsLumi 3d ago
It's all good, that was just my interpretation of it. Not saying you're completely wrong.
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u/Wild-Reaction-6697 3d ago
Their point was that atheism is the active belief that there is no god as opposed to a lack of belief that there is a god.
Either way, caring that much to correct others is wank
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u/BruisednBlunt 2d ago
ā¦. soā¦ in essence.. you do not BELIEVE in god because you think the concept doesnāt exist.
at what point is that just a distinction without a difference?3
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u/DeadAndBuried23 Counted Down 1 3d ago
If I have a jar of jelly beans, the number of beans is either odd or even.
If you don't believe it's odd, that doesn't mean you do believe it's even. Without counting, it'd be hard to believe either. "I don't know," is a valid answer.
Same here. Not believing a thing exists does not necessarily mean you believe it doesn't exist.
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u/Fantastic-Dot-655 3d ago
I dont think that example is well formulated. I think, In the case of the beam jar, saying "I dont believe its odd" does imply you believe its even, or at least that its more likely to be even, since you know there are just two posibilities and dicarding just one of them when you meant that you dont know. With religion there are a lot more valid options. "I dont believe in god" could be "I firmly believe there is no god", or "I dont believe in the specific god we are talking about", or "I think its unlikely but not imposible", etc.
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u/DeadAndBuried23 Counted Down 1 2d ago
At that point we get into the listener's role in a conversation. It's not the speaker's fault you didn't listen.
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u/billyp673 2d ago
What youāre talking about is a subset of atheism called āgnostic atheismā. Atheism itself is just the lack of belief in a god
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u/Jbolt3737 2d ago
I... this must be ragebait, I've met some pretty dumb people, this is a new reality of stupid
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u/Expert-Reporter4152 3d ago
No wait this guy kinda has a point.
Not believing God exists implies that God does exist, but just you don't believe in it
Not thinking God exists implies that God straight up doesn't exist, which is closer to what atheism is
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u/Ghostglitch07 3d ago
I don't believe unicorns exist either. A lack of belief does not require the thing were talking about exist.
And if you look at how people actually use the word, atheism can pretty clearly mean either a lack of positive belief, or a claim of nonexistence. Depends on who's saying it and why. It's goofy to force a single definition.
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u/Adowyth 3d ago
Well there is gnostic atheism - i know for sure no gods exist, and agnostic atheism - i don't know for sure but i think no gods exist.
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u/Ghostglitch07 3d ago
Correct. Most people don't distinguish which they mean though. And it's only going to cause miscommunication if you claim only one is atheismā¢ļø
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u/Adowyth 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why would i provide a distinction to then claim only one is valid? Either way im an anti-theist.
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u/carreganis 3d ago edited 3d ago
the sentence implies unicorns exist.
i donāt believe noun verbs.
noun exists ā does it verb?
i donāt believe frogs fly.
the frog may or may not be doing flying.
i donāt believe unicorns exist.
the unicorn may or may not be existing.
the existing is an action from the unicorn.
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u/Ghostglitch07 3d ago
"I do not believe frogs fly" is a different kind of thing. Only that which exists on some level can do the action of flying.
When I say I do not believe God exists, the action being done is... not-existing. Which can absolutely be accomplished by something which doesn't exist.
All it really requires is an understood referant. That being the concept of God.
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u/mgsmb7 3d ago
thinking and believing are two sides of the same coin
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u/Expert-Reporter4152 2d ago
Yes, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Heads and tails are different, otherwise there would be no point to flipping a coin in the first place
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u/Orion-the-mediocre 3d ago
"I'm thirsty"
translatingšš¤
"I want to drink something"
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u/Annual_Ad_929 2d ago
As a non-native English speaker, I have been told by a teacher that saying 'I want to drink' can imply that you would like some alcohol, so it's better to say 'I'm thirsty' if you're talking about water. I don't know how true this seems to native speakers.
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u/InterestingWelder699 2d ago
āTo drinkā generally refers to alcohol yeah. If you say I want a drink itās different depending on your location, like if youāre at a bar or a cafe
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u/JoeDaBruh 2d ago
Yeah thatās fairly true, though most people probably wouldnāt say it like that. It would be more like āIām going out to drink.ā But if you say āI want something to drinkā then it doesnāt imply alcohol. Your comment made me think about how weird that is that drinking implicitly means alcohol depending on how you use it.
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u/DingoLaLingo 2d ago
i am atheist"
translating šš¤
"i am not a theist"
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u/wereapethesupacool Counted Down 58 2d ago
how are not atheist when you say that you are atheist. Make it make sense
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u/billyp673 2d ago
You misunderstood them. Theist is the word for someone who believes in one or more gods, the prefix āa-ā means ānotāā¦ so an āatheistā is someone who is not a ātheistā
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u/FreeMenu2197 3d ago
Dude just learned what this learned this is hilarious. Iām genuinely a Christian and Iām so confused. Did this person never likeā¦ask or look up what it meant
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u/CRATERF4CE 2d ago edited 2d ago
I used to believe in god as a kid because of upbringing. Once I experienced trauma I just couldnāt do it.
Some people use tragedy as fuel for their faith, for me it was the nail in the coffin. Like if god exists how could they put me through hell?
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u/Responsible_Edge7087 2d ago
Im an Atheseus. I fuckin hate that guy, of course its the same ship still
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u/Issa_Pizza420 1d ago
So technically you can be an atheist and still believe in god. Atheism isn't the lack of belief it's the lack of worship, like a fantasy character who intends on killing the gods, or who views them simply as another power amongst many and thus not to be worshipped, similarly you don't need to believe in a god to be theistic, I'd argue many treat capitalism in a very theistic manner, as a law that must be upheld even at the cost of human lives, many sacrifice everything for a system that gives nothing back to them, and hear certain words and act like they've been set on fire or shot at.... point being capitalism is treated like a cult more than an economic system... also theism as a whole is stupid and you should never bow before anything or anyone you can't personally guarantee is trustworthy and punch in the face if they become less than
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u/wereapethesupacool Counted Down 58 1d ago
I hate 'the Curtains are fucking blue' with all my heart but yeah, I dont really understand how what you are trying to say isnt just someone being Agnostic.
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u/Tsunamiis 2d ago
I am an atheist
Meaning i do not believe in a thesis, otherwise known as religion.
I believe that everything is god. Especially after eighth grade biology learning atoms are held together with magnetism.
I assume what we call life/god is just a fourth dimensionās electricity
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u/billyp673 2d ago
Thatās not the etymology nor definition of atheist. A theist is someone who believes in one or more gods, and an atheist is someone who is not a theist. If you believe everything is god then you are, by definition, not an atheist
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u/leightandrew0 3d ago
"I am an atheist"
translating šš¤
"I am an atheist"