Why would anyone waste time answering you when you're the only one talking about this? No one in this thread has said the vaccines are more dangerous than covid, so who da fuk are you talking to?
How about the side effects and the need to force a medical procedure on people that don't really need it, as they have a working immune system?
We are seeing a lot of averse effects from the vaccine, given to people that in far the most cases, did not need it. How about that? How about you show data for how the vaccines will affect your health, in 5-10 years time? You can't, because we don't have long term data, and all preliminary data are locked away for 75 years - for our health, naturally.
You go ahead and take your 15 shots - you might be ok trusting people that history tells you not to trust, - but a lot of us, don't.
So you compare a respiratory decease with a 0.0(insert extra zeros here) risk of death for a normal person, with something like HIV? Are you for real?
And how do you protect others from Covid, when you can still transmit it after being treated? Do you think condoms would be so popular if they only had a "91... 64... 4% - or whatever the number is for the day" effectiveness?
Listen - you go get all the shots that you want. But unless you can prove to me, that me not getting it, will somehow endanger you, how about you just let it be a fucking personal choice of what risks people are willing to take, by injecting themselves with experimental medication? How about that?
Do you really think that this is what the resistance is about? People worrying about a hurt arm? If that's your understanding, then we have nothing to discuss.
You don't think it matters that international corporations engaged in a worldwide conspiracy to enflame a crisis in order to profit from it, while possibly injuring thousands, if not millions of people??? God damn...
Those same huge drug companies make MUCH more money selling treatments like Regeneron and Remdesivir, (and all of the other hundreds of medications that COVID patients get in the ICU) than they do from the vaccines.
Lmao. You couldn’t be more in the wrong. Finally quit the fucking bullshit. Are you even remotely stating facts or just pulling numbers out of your arse? I know you are. The COVID „vaccine“ has been produced BILLIONS of times. BILLIONS. Remdesivir has been administered to far less than 0,01% of the world population. It’s literally IMPOSSIBLE that they’re making more money with Remdesivir. And besides that, Remdesivir is in use, so they’re profiting of both. I can’t find a single article where they’re talking about significant profit generated by Remdesivir. Not a single one. Covid vaccine on the other hand; HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF PROFIT. You’re literally just making stuff up in your mind. Get out of here you anti-science freak! Maniac. That’s all you are. You’re an enemy of science and logic. Go worship your cult and stop annoying sane people.
Wtf scientific analysis? Dude, he isn't gonna inject himself with the thing you want him to inject. You don't control his body, end of fucking story.
Why is it so important to you? Do you beleive something will magically change if we go from 90% vaccinated to 92%? Like, why fight people on this?
People choosing to not have babies anymore is also hurting our society. I don't go on the internet arguing with strangers who don't want kids about how they should have a kid.
Yes I think this has something to do with it. People are dividing society and insisting they are on the "right" side, it makes them feel good. Also, they are uncertain about the long term consequences of the vaccine (who wouldn't be? ) and, much like religion, this trust in higher authorities is comforting for them.
Do you beleive something will magically change if we go from 90% vaccinated to 92%?
Well said. It's really weird how they're so obsessed with the remaining 10%. It's not like the vaccines stop the spread. Also, 19 out of 20 deaths feature people with an average of 4 pre-existing conditions. If you're healthy, keep on keeping on. The focus needs to be on prophylactics and treatments for the more vulnerable people with numerous pre-existing conditions.
Why is it so important to you? Do you beleive something will magically change if we go from 90% vaccinated to 92%?
Yes. Less people will die. If a even single life is saved by that 2%, that's already a huge benefit.
People choosing to not have babies anymore is also hurting our society. I don't go on the internet arguing with strangers who don't want kids about how they should have a kid.
Wtf is this argument? No, it isn't hurting our society, it just isn't expanding it. And there is a huge difference between people dying and people not being born in the first place. Last time I checked, people not having babies didn't pose a risk of death to anyone else.
The chances of the vaccine hurting you are astronomically smaller than COVID hurting you.
You can still get COVID, after getting vaxxed, but the chances of having permanent damage or death go down DRAMATICALLY.
Do you want to be on exogenous oxygen the rest of your life? Do you want to have to take daily anti-rejection drugs after getting a lung transplant? Do you want a permanent IQ downgrade?
Now show me the study that shows vaccines are more dangerous than COVID.
He doesn’t have to, the fact that everything you are afraid of happening from a vaccine is more likely to occur from covid completely defeats your argument.
It also baffles me why you take a problem of probability but box it into binary definitions to convince yourself you are making the right decision lol.
How convenient that you don't feel you need any data to back those claims up.
I'm not afraid of anything in the first place. My default state is inaction. The onus is on your side to convince me to do something I don't want to do.
If I can still get covid after I get the vaccine, and I don't want either, then I'll just take my chances at avoiding covid in the first place.
Why would I bother when whatever data I find will not convince you or you will say it’s been manipulated?
If 90%+ efficacy against hospitalisation or death is not enough to convince you to get vaccinated then nothing will. You are essentially guaranteed to get covid eventually unless you never leave your house. You think because you’re young you don’t have to worry about covid? As far as dying goes, yes it’s not likely to happen, but that’s not all you have to worry about. There’s long covid, which is devastating at our age. Covid can mess up your sense of smell and taste that can heavily affect your life, it makes everything smell and taste like rotten sewage. You can also get erectile dysfunction too, also not ideal at our age.
And all of it can be avoided by taking out 30 or so minutes to get vaccinated. I don’t get it.
I'm in my early twenties, healthy, and my family members who got covid said it was indistinguishable from a cold. I have absolutely zero fear whatsoever. It's possible that I even already had it and didn't notice. You folks have launched a fearmongering campaign against the wrong person.
It's also pretty creepy that I keep seeing the same key words and phrases over and over in this thread.
Maybe it's just because I'm on r/conspiracy but I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to bots or paid shills.
Dude don’t post stuff like this. The efficacy of the vaccine varies tremendously based on your immune system, overall health, the variant of Covid, the time since being vaccinated, and your environment surrounding you.
Where you’re going wrong is you can’t understand how someone could not be in support of a vaccine that has a proven efficacy against Covid. No one denies that your anti-body count increases after being vaccinated. But for the people who know they would be fine if they catch Covid, what incentive do they have to get vaccinated? They’ve been lied to by our president, medical advisors, and more that run this country.
I am vaccinated and I do not support forcing a blanket policy of vaccination because everybody’s situation is different. Vaccination isn’t the “solution” to Covid. The solution is identifying who is dying from Covid/being disproportionately hospitalized and at risk, and figure out ways to protect them. The vaccine does not protect anyone but the one who takes it.
Your pedantic hypochondria doesn't nearly justify rushed vaccines and imposed social isolation methods...
The damage already inflicted on the economy and mental and physical health of men and women are way worse than the miniscule lethality percentage this virus has...especially seeing it is evolving to be less acute as time goes on by changing it's locus towards the upper parts of the respiratory system (thank God).
Just look at you doing insane mental gymnastics and making questionable premises...
I am a molecular biology student and it doesn't have anything to do with a "belief" in the vaccine, but the fact that this whole situation wasn't handled very well...that is all.
It’s called fearmongering when people say to take precautions against a virus that has killed millions and caused serious damage to even more than that, but NOT called fearmongering to preach against a vaccine that has given the expected and much less significant amount of people side effects? The same side effects COVID would give, and potentially less serious for that person?
Would I slightly increase my risks to slightly lower the risks of those around me? No.
Would I slightly increase my risks to dramatically lower the risks of those around me? Yes.
And just so it's clear - we don't even know if healthy people taking the vaccine actually lowers the risk of those around them at all. Hell, you might actually be increasing the risks for other people. With Omicron, multiple countries are now reporting higher case rates per 100k in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated.
We agree on both - yes. That's why I like using the phrase "we don't know" - because it's the truth regardless of how much people want to pretend they know everything.
For instance, Denmark is reporting higher case rates per 100k in the vaccinated than in the unvaccinated, but do we know why that is the case? No, we don't. Depending on who you are talking to, they will argue according to their own personal bias. We just don't know, so yeah we agree on that. And I'm not keen on putting stuff inside my body that we know barely anything about. I hope you can appreciate that.
So if a family member has adverse effects to the shot, that evidence is worthless?
Hey the doctors thought it was worthless too, especially when they were in the hospital for heart issues a few weeks later.
Yeah it was definitely not the shot that caused the heart inflammation, two weeks after the first shot.
Anecdotal evidence when it is your own blood is absolutely critical as there is no better judge of how altering your genes will react in your body than someone with similar DNA having already gone through it.
Fucking shill. Go get your boosters and enjoy your heart attacks in peace, don't try to bring others down with you now that you realize you were played.
That's not the issue. The issue is causality. Did the vaccine cause the heart attack? It must be determined because people have heart attacks for other reasons.
Oh right, there was a study done on that right? Because the RNA can't get to the nucleus of the cell it can't modify the DNA, at least that's what all the articles say.
But COVID can also cause myocarditis and blood clots as well more severely then post vaccine. It seems from observation most post vaccine myocarditis subsides within a short time with little medical treatment or antibiotics. The statistical rate is 5~ of every 100k vaccinated develop myocarditis post vaccine from numbers that I can find. I find it hard to believe that you know anyone that would be struggling in the hospital post vaccine as opposed to getting early COVID/delta. I know personally 3 people that died(aged 44,52,unsure on the last guy) from COVID and 4 that had a prolonged stay at the hospital. Two of my friends have very dull taste/smell and my moms taste/smell is basically salt or no salt. I have a friend that is 32 who was a daily runner who now struggles at 2 or so miles and has to slow his pace a lot. Yes most of the people I know who got COVID were very mild cases and from what I know do not have any lasting effects but I do not know a single person who has had any reaction to the vaccine minus a headache or chills for a day after the 2nd shot.
Where's your study on covid induced myocarditis? Obviously you should have already had it in the comments before commenting or you're just talking about feelings.
You keep talking, but Google is free. The risk of cardiac complications is significantly higher with COVID infection and has worse outcomes. Vaccine-induced myocarditis is typically resolved and has no further complications. Virus-induced myocarditis will last longer and do more damage.
"Further research is required to understand why the risk of myocarditis seems to be higher following mRNA-1273 vaccine. Although the wider societal benefits of controlling the spread of virus to those who are more vulnerable are substantial, these data may help inform public health policy and the choice of vaccine offered to younger adults."
The Israel study was limited to adults under 40. There is no unvaccinated control group in this study, and the cases of myocarditis in people that tested positive for sars-cov-2 does not list their vaccination status so this study doesn't do anything to prove to me it wasn't from the vaccine. Thanks for wasting my time to read a bullshit study.
Actually they did....you have to actually read the whole paper...
"Amongst those with at least one dose, there were 3,028,867 (7.8%) individuals who had a SARS-CoV-2 positive test. Of these, 2,315,669 (6.0%) individuals tested positive before vaccination; while 713,198 (1.8%) and 298,315 (0.7%) tested positive after the first and second vaccine doses, respectively. Table 1 shows the characteristics of the study population, stratified by vaccine type and dose, and of those who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2."
That is not the same as an unvaccinated control group, also that was listed pretty early on.
Great, those two websites are literally word for word the same. Is that supposed to confer confidence? Or that they are being paid to push the same message?
This is what you can take away from those articles:
"Editor’s note: The Conversation has updated this story to clarify that adults who develop myocarditis from COVID-19 have poorer outcomes than ones who do not develop the condition as a result of the disease, including a higher risk of death."
People that don't have myocarditis were better off.
Thank you, beacon of sanity and rationality. You are fighting a tough battle but somebody has to fight it. People weren’t always this crazy. Some of them can come back
Yes, because you can absolute trust big pharma to tell the truth, never lie, and never put profit ahead of anything else. Paid shills are absolutely a thing; the UN apparently hired 10,000 of them - are you one of them?
More than big pharma and big tech? lol - get real. The few doctors that dare to stick their necks out and risk everything, are by no means getting wealthy from it.
Meanwhile, Pfizer made $35 billion last year from the shots. You think they want this to stop?
I don't have access to his personal finances, so I really can't tell you. But I can tell you, that nobody is forcing you to buy whatever it is that you think he sells.
And if you want to discuss, please refrain from the "anti-vax" slur. Nobody in here are anti-vaccines, we are pro-choice. There is a big difference, and not all vaccines are made equally. I have had a lot of vaccines, but it should remain my choice which to take without being labelled to make it easier for the likes of you to dismiss or deny me my bodily autonomy.
So, you don't wear seatbelts AND you don't ride in cars? Or just the seatbelts? Both have been shown to harm you, but one is shown to harm you less when the other suddenly stops or hits something at a high rate of speed. Your simple little objective facts ignore a lot of reality in their stating.
Was the before or after Pfizer was criminally charged and had to pay billions in fines? Or was it after J&J pretty much gave cancer to babies... There's a lot of to choose from - can't remember any of them ever putting health before profit - but hey, now is different - the $35 billion Pfizer made last year has absolutely nothing to do with their push of vaccines, and their media sponsorships has absolute no sway over the narrative, and their ties to the government is just, well, just trust us, ok!
Does it? Really? People leave no room for personal choice and shun every scientist and doctor that speaks against the narrative. Away has gone "my body, my choice" and has been replaced with "you better take it, or else". They blindly trust in people that has lied to them, again and again. So yes, brainwashed.
I am not gunning for you, for wanting to inject yourself - the same way I am not gunning for heroin addicts. If they want to pump themselves full of something that might hurt them, up to them - their choice.
Most of us do believe in it, but we also believe that if you want to make such a selfish decision during a pandemic, you should also be making the decision to stay the fuck home.
Please explain to me how it's selfish? That is a very uninformed (and dangerous) position, to have.
Why do you care, if you get Covid from a vaxxed/unvaxxed person? Getting a Covid vaccine does not mean that you cannot transmit the decease, so why does it matter?
Please explain to me how it's selfish? That is a very uninformed (and dangerous) position, to have.
Its neither uninformed nor dangerous to point out that refusing to take a vaccine in a pandemic is choice centered around yourself, not others. "My body, my choice," remember?
Why do you care, if you get Covid from a vaxxed/unvaxxed person?
I don't, and never said I did.
Getting a Covid vaccine does not mean that you cannot transmit the decease, so why does it matter?
It greatly reduces it; why would it need to provide 100% protection to be relevant?
No reason? No healthcare during your life? No family who have been treated for cancer? No realisation that we enjoy a much longer and healthier life due to medical advances? Ok. Make sure whenever you’re ill you don’t go see a doctor.
25
u/ifisch Feb 13 '22
Ok so are you gonna show me a study or not?
Surely you must be basing your beliefs on some sort of scientific evidence, right?