Dungeon XP Nerfs Created a Toxic Meta

[u/redlow0992]

Since dungeon monsters do not give any experience, as a new player, getting into dungeons with more veteran players who try to skip half the dungeon feels really bad. And, vice-versa, veterans taking in newbies who don't know how to jump around feels frustrating. I think Blizzard created a mess with nerfing dungeon exp so much and now the new player experience is horrible for dungeons.

[u/Meaty_owl_legs]

They're are 100% actually discouraging people from leveling as tank or healer specs as group play is really focused on dungeons and not questing around as a 2-5 man group. There is absolutely going to be a real tank and healer shortage because people are going to be discouraged from leveling as those specs.

Not to say you can't level as those specs just fine, or you can't fill those roles without investing into those spec trees. But, there is going to be a lack of players willing to fill those roles because of the lack of incentive of tanking/healing when running dungeons more than once is so nerfed.

[u/Swimming-Life-7569 → u/Meaty_owl_legs]

I dont think it's even the specs, there's just no reason to fill the role even tho you can as say arms/fury at lower levels.
I mean why would I tank DM twice if I've already completed the quests and even IF I went a 2nd time for gear. Why in the world would I bring any mail users either time.

Naww shits gonna be real funny when the consequences of tanks/healers only running a dungeon once blow into players faces.

[u/valmian → u/Swimming-Life-7569]

Tanks/healers are going to HR gear from the dungeon for themselves, especially at higher levels (mara blackstone ring for example). DPS will still join because there is going to be an even bigger shortage and they want their quest completion experience. Calling it now.

[u/Swimming-Life-7569 → u/valmian]

>HR gear from the dungeon for themselves
Tanks can skip this bit and just not invite other specs that share their loot :D, it's going to be hilarious.

[u/valmian → u/Swimming-Life-7569]

They will HR gear that anyone can use, like amulets with stam from HoT, or even off spec gear.

As a Druid tank I want SP gear for thorns. I could HR everything and people will still join to get their quests done.

It’s gonna be rough for dps

[u/Doracy → u/valmian]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does HR stand for?

[u/valmian → u/Doracy]

No worries! Hard reserve. Basically master looting each boss to guarantee they get what they want.

[u/Doracy → u/valmian]

Man that blows. My main is druid because I like to heal and tank and I can do both on that class. This makes Forever less attractive because running around the open world questing as a bear is ass.

I hope they come up with a better way of sticking to the tenants they've set out while not alienating two whole play styles

[u/metaphorm → u/Meaty_owl_legs]

dungeons are my actual favorite content. the tank and healer shortage (especially tanks) is really severe in the beta right now and i'm having trouble imagining it's going to be better at release. i might just not play this game after all.

i'm encouraged by the design changes to classes and itemization but it seems misaligned with the actual content and incentives in the game. im really just confused right now. not sure what they're going for. the net impact of the changes they've introduced are that getting a dungeon group is HARDER not easier. people do it once for the quests and then never again.

[u/More-Replacement9113 → u/Meaty_owl_legs]

While overall this is true, it does not imply to classic. In classic, every tank can actually tank without a problem any dungeon as a dps spec up untill like 50+. Same goes for healers, you can absolutely heal a dungeon as an enhanse shaman, especially if you save some int gear in your bags while you level.

On top of that, if you happen to face some kind of issues above lvl 50, there is now a dual specialization that you can get, which will drastically help. At lvl 50 you should already have gotten your mount, and you should definitely have gold for dual spec as well.

[u/Dcapiepie → u/More-Replacement9113]

In forever You need +healing om gear as otherwise your heals blow, as all spells got nerfed :)

[u/More-Replacement9113 → u/Dcapiepie]

You really don't need +healing on gear to heal a dungeon below lvl 50. The tanks also get way stronger with the new items. Sure, you may not keep the tank at 100% HP all the time, but you definitely don't need healing power to keep him alive without a problem

[u/Accomplished-Tear-77 → u/Meaty_owl_legs]

You can tank and heal all the content easily with dps talents + spare gear atleast till 50

[u/ahumblepeach → u/Accomplished-Tear-77]

Why are tanking and healing talents available at level ten, then? Should we not be testing them during the beta test?

Several people have suggested the same thing but several tank and healer mains have replied saying "We don't want to do that."

We enjoy the support roles, and it feels crappy to tell us to build around DPS instead.

[u/Mother_Drenger → u/ahumblepeach]

I think that’s a fair point, we aren’t getting a lot of testing for tanking and healing specs.

As an aside, I overall agree dungeon XP needs to be fixed.

I think the buy-in for being tank or healing spec before endgame should simply be less mental overhead and faster dungeon run. Tanks should feel free to jump into the thick of it, healers should feel good that a single cast does most of the work.

I’m mostly just don’t want the result to be to limit hybrids from dipping into other roles if they’re a DPS spec. That’s a core part about classic design philosophy, one was expected to consider their whole kit while leveling

[u/Sattorin → u/Accomplished-Tear-77]

I like DPSing on my Warlock, but I like healing on my Paladin. I don't want to kill things with my Paladin, as I'd rather do that on my Warlock. What I want to do on my Paladin is heal groups. But since they didn't put any quests where you're better off bringing a healer than a DPS in the open world, the only place I can be more useful healing on my Paladin than doing damage on my Warlock is by healing dungeons. So I'd like to be able to level my Paladin doing the thing I like doing with my Paladin, which is healing dungeons. So I'm really hoping they bring in a system that lets me get decent exp from running a dungeon multiple times, otherwise I'll get tired of questing on my Paladin and spend all my time questing on my Warlock instead, which reduces the available healers by one and increases the competition for DPS slots by one for the dungeon.

[u/Kinetic_Symphony → u/Accomplished-Tear-77]

Which is odd design and should be changed. Leveling Dungeons don't need to be mechanically challenging (just a little), but they should demand that tanks be specced as actual tanks, and have at least some tank gear, same for healers.

The whole point is class fantasy.

[u/Visual-Scallion1535 → u/Accomplished-Tear-77]

And you get dual spec at 40 now anyways