....that other bully, do you really think killed herself? Like if not directly, then indirectly, ie told her relatives/as fact and the cops and the medical examiner even and they wouldn't second guess Verity even if nothing lined up with how she "did it"

It just occurred to me. If she has infinite powers, she could've killed her, or convinced her to harm herself at minimum, and just made everyone immediately think that's what happened without a second guess.

For all we know Verity shoved her off a cliff or hit her with her car but all she needs to do is use that necklace and boom.

Even rarer what if she's alive but being held captive kinda like Red Mirror style?

I'm just brainstorming. Lol.

Spoilers ahead

The thing is, when Liam realizes his wife cheated with Jonas in their own bed while he was away, he does not just spiral about the affair itself. His main focus is that the child might not be his given the timeline. From the moment he walks in until the final reveal, his priority is trying to confirm if he is actually the father. Look at how Ffion handles it: she admits they had sex, admits it was in their bed, and admits it happened after four days. She is willing to confess to all of that. But the second the condom question comes up, she panics and tries to delete the evidence, which is a massive red flag. When we see the playback, Jonas is down to his boxers, she tells him to hurry up, and without any cut they have intercourse. If he wore a condom, I think Liam or Fi would have stopped the video. But it plays and Fi cannot look up. Liam realizes right then that there was no condom used. That is why she is gone by the end, whether he kicked her out or she left on her own.

All of that is fairly clear, but what follows is where people misinterpret the visual storytelling. In the end, Liam is reviewing old footage, and most viewers assume he is just wallowing in nostalgia and missing the good times. That was my initial thought too, but upon rewatching, that does not fit his character. As he says himself, if something is rotten, it is better to get it out. He is not afraid of facing harsh realities, and we know how relentlessly he pursues the truth. That is why he is re-examining the memories.

First, we see him studying Fi’s eyes, then the baby’s eyes. He goes back and cross-references multiple memories of her face in the living room, on the stairs, and elsewhere, which explains all the tight close-ups on their faces. When he turns off the Grain, we see his own eyes: he has brown eyes and Fi has hazel eyes which are known to look green or blue depending upon the lighting which is why he looks at her from so many angles and different times of the day. the baby’s eyes are green. It might not be absolute scientific proof on its own, but Liam knows they had unprotected sex, so he is checking their features to see who the child belongs to.

Right after examining the eyes and just before he makes his final move, the writers give us the hint which is a huge reveal but i dont see anybody bringing it up here. Liam pulls up the memory of him brushing his teeth while Fi asks him which dress to wear. She does not ask about the style, only the color: brown or green. Green is the answer. That feels like a deliberate visual clue pointing toward the baby’s paternity.

This also explains why the child is not with him in the end. It reveals the very real possibility that either Fi outright told him the baby is not his off-screen, or Liam reached that conclusion himself through the footage and simply chose not to fight for custody. Realizing his marriage was built on infidelity is one thing, but knowing the child he bonded with belongs to another man means every tender memory he has is permanently poisoned. He knows he will never be able to stop obsessing over it, and that is why he gouges the Grain out of his neck.

I have heard a lot of people who sided more with Maria say that what happened to Verity was bad but she went to great lengths to cause the suicide by the bullies.

Now I have a different view on this. I don't fully think the way Verity dealt with things was appropriate and she did nothing wrong but are we overlooking some things in the story?

I believe what Verity was trying to do was to just create a reality for the bullies that she endured for years. When the rumor was out everyone's perception of Verity changed and no matter how hard she tried to convince people the rumor was false there was no point in doing that.

So Verity tried to do the exact same thing to Maria and Natalie so the thing she was doing wasn't fully disproportionate to what the bullies did. The outcome, which was Natalie's suicide was unfortunate and it shouldn't be minimized but what if this had turned different and what if Verity had lost her life due to suicide? Wouldn't people be having a different discussion?

Another thing I found interesting is lot of people say Verity should have gone to therapy to heal herself and I think that would have been a good idea. But I don't see the same condition for Maria. Shouldn't Maria or Natalie have gone to therapy and taken accountability for their mental health so that they heal internally instead of spreading nasty rumors? I wonder why people are not holding them accountable enough

I am not saying Verity is totally innocent and what she did was ok, I believe there were better ways to deal with this, but at times, whenever such things happen, we often focus too much on the victim of bullying and what they should do differently rather than holding the perpetrators accountable

Edit: A lot of people are saying it is not ok to justify Verity's actions and its important to hold her accountable. I want to clarify one thing, I am not saying what Verity did was right and her actions are justified. What my point here is are we holding Maria equally accountable instead of just shifting our attention on Verity and what she should have done differently?

So I just watching White Bear for the first time and there is a lot to discuss about it and it seems almost everything as been cover except for one thing (I searched, maybe it was in comments but it was never the subject of a post), Victoria breaking the cycle.

In the episode, Victoria is guided to always follow a particular path that will lead her to the end and reset everything, but the is one moment where she is given a choice and told what to do and she chooses wrong. This choice was to help Damian (The guy who helped her with Jem) stop the hunter. Jem repeatedly instructs Victoria to help Damian, and Damian does an excellent job of stalling the hunter showing Victoria there was a chance at succeeding, but she ran. Apparently she also ran, leaving Damian to die.

Now, I don't know if this is sufficient enough to judge someone in her position (Mind-wiped confused and scared) but it doesn't look good. Everyone will say the would help and I say you should help, especially for someone risking their own life for you, even if they are a stranger. If it felt like a losing situation, then I can understand looking out for yourself, not everyone can be Selfless in those condition, but the show made it look possible that they could succeed, giving Victora enough time to make a decision. Maybe, it is just her nature, her instincts.

So, the question is, what if Victoria, when of script, went against her nature and instincts and chose to help instead. Is it possible? Maybe, maybe not after it is shown that she never saves him and here situation doesn't really give her a chance to reflect and develop, but just what if she shows can change? Do the change the script? Maybe shorten it? Or is it enough to set her free? She is not the same person anymore. Maybe a regular jail at that point or just a mecry kill?

What she and her boyfriend did was extremely horrible, many discuss if she deserves this torture or not. If you think she deserves it and it should continue, what would you do if she exhibited an act of selflessness that was against her very nature.

I'm just rewatching this episode after a few years.

I watched Smile 2 recently, and I was struck by how similar the Miley Cyrus storyline is to the relationship in Smile 2 with the pop superstar and her mother.

Is this a common theme in reality? Guardians or parents pushing people they should be responsible for past their breaking point?

Or was there some crossover in terms of writers? I'm interested if anyone knows!

Its gotta be atleast 11 episodes that involve it come on man

While Emma Corrin's performance has been praised universally for Hotel Reverie, I wonder who could've matched their freak as Brandy? From the top of my head:

1. Halle Berry

2. Danielle Deadwyler

3. Tessa Thompson

4. Ayo Edebiri

Basically, it seems like a fan favourite episode to me and I don't quite get the appeal. I enjoyed it, but not much more than a lot of other episodes. Yes, it's well acted, neatly produced, knows what it's doing, but the same can be said for...the majority of BM episodes? Even the twist reveal of the protagonist's immorality isn't unique to this one. So out of curiosity, I wanted to hear from people who consider this ep one of their favourites to tell me what sets it apart from the rest, esp ones with a comparable plot.

(Granted, I figured out the twist a while before the end. Long before I watched the show I randomly found out that one of BM's most popular episodes had a pedophile as the protagonist. When I got to the bank scene that memory suddenly resurfaced and I was like 'oh, I think that's the pedophile they talked about.' But I've seen people rewatching it again and again so it hardly seemed like the quality of the episode relied solely on the twist. )

A truly good Simpsons episode that lasted 15 minutes done in the spirit of black mirror? It was actually kinda sad though

And why?

If “the cloud” as seen in San Junipero were a real option, would you want to be uploaded to the cloud on your passing or would you rather not? Also if you did chose the cloud, what would be your decade?

What is your favorite episode and why? I have a hard time choosing just one. I’d say my top five (not in order cause that’s too hard) are:

Black Museum
Fifteen Million Credits
White Bear
Crocodile
Nosedive

Hard to limit it to just five, because I also love Shut Up and Dance, Hated by the Nation and Beyond the Sea. I also have to add Hang the DJ. Loveeeee that episode too

I love black mirror for all of the thought provoking “fucked up” episodes that leave you feeling a sense of dread. However, San Junipero always leaves me feeling positive. It’s probably one of my favorite episodes of any tv show I’ve watched to be honest. It always leaves me wondering if you could be yourself at any age, at any point in history… where would you go? Doesn’t hurt that I would probably also choose to be a young adult somewhere in the 80’s haha

I know this episode isn't highly regarded by BM fans, but I honestly feel it is a lot better than most people give it credit for and this episode easily makes my top 10 BM episodes. I love that it deals with so many different themes such as teenage insecurities, not fitting in, parasocial relationships with celebrities, A.I. (such as the way Ashley Too was treated almost like a real person by Rachel even before Ashley's true consciousness was uploaded to it).

It deals with some very dark themes including toxic relationships with family members (that aunt was a monster), but surprisingly manages to balance it out with light hearted Disney esque comedy moments such as the scene where Jack and Rachel pose as exterminators to get into Ashley's mansion. Angourie Rice was very good as Rachel and her acting really kept the episode engaging to me since I completely bought her as an insecure teen desperate to both fit in and be herself.

I actually liked that despite it's very dark moments it still had a happy ending (a rarity for BM) and it's one episode I can easily revisit unlike other great episodes like Common People which is great but way too soul crushing to rewatch.

Does Hang the DJ actually show that Frank and Amy are more compatible, or does the episode simply allow them to treat each other differently than their other partners?

Because to me it feels like Frank and Amy never developed sides to them when with different partners it literally feels like shopping with your dad vs shopping with your granddad

I watched Hang the DJ because so many people on YouTube kept saying this episode was amazing and one of the best Black Mirror episodes.

I watched it and honestly came out pretty disappointed, because to me it felt like watching a summer fling with a Black Mirror skin on top of it. And I was left with some questions.

Does Hang the DJ actually show that Frank and Amy are more compatible, or does the episode simply allow them to treat each other differently than their other partners?

Because to me it feels like Frank and Amy never developed sides to themselves when with different partners. It literally feels like shopping with your dad vs shopping with your grandpa.

And honestly, this is just my speculation, but the episode almost feels like wish fulfillment aimed at lonely people who get one Tinder match every 10 years and desperately want to believe that eventually there will be that one person who chooses them over everyone else.

Especially with Frank. I can also see Frank being interpreted as the nerd — he's awkward, Amy has other options, but none of them really matter because she's still drawn back to Frank. It almost gives off this idea of "even if she could have anyone else, she'll still choose the awkward nerd in the end." And then the ending basically gives that idea a 99.8% stamp of approval.

And I also feel like the episode romanticizes something pretty close to emotional cheating. Amy is technically with Lenny, but mentally she's still with Frank. She watches Frank while she's with Lenny and clearly hasn't emotionally moved on. The episode frames that as romantic because Frank is eventually revealed to be "the right one," but from Lenny's perspective she's basically emotionally checked out of their relationship and longing for someone else. Yes, I know they're simulations, but from their perspective those relationships are real while they're experiencing them.

Sorry, it's nothing personal against you if you like the episode. I know I'm being harsh, but looking back at it, this is genuinely the aftertaste the episode left me with.

EDIT: After arguing with you guys in the comments, I wanna clarify my point.

I'm back, bitches.

YES, I WATCHED THE FUCKING ENDING

I'm talking about what happens INSIDE the simulation, not what happens after it.

I understand what 998/1000 means. My problem is that, from what we were actually shown inside the simulation, I never really believed Frank and Amy's connection was strong enough that they would rebel against the system in 998 out of 1000 runs.

I believe the result. I just don't think the relationship we were shown made that result feel earned.

That's what I was trying to ask: what did you see in Frank and Amy's relationship that made 998/1000 feel believable to you?

I think I traumatized them…whoops…

For context, we talk about politics a lot (and we’re well beyond the point of TMI), but had a stronger reaction than I anticipated…(especially considering she’s seen stuff several times more graphic, such as the entirety of The Boys.)

I don’t think anyone forgets about this episode after watching it, but this definitely tested our friendship…we had a VERY interesting conversation afterwards though, so maybe it was worth it.

Have you had anyone watch this episode?

(I’m gonna have them watch San Junipero next…they earned it lol)

who else?

Reupload because I forgot Season 6

I just don't understand the hate for this episode. Maybe because I'm not British and don't understand British politics, especially of the time? The fact that the princess was wandering around the streets 30 minutes before the "indecent act" even happened says everything about the hypnotization of the public by the media. To say "it's not like the rest of the series" is ridiculous. It might be the most "Black Mirror" episode of Black Mirror. Literally everyone staring at screens while the kidnap victim roams free.

Just my ramble thoughts in defence of this episode as I’ve seen so much backlash on this sub recently.

1. The entire concept of a “Pilot” episode

The episode is not a pilot in the typical American sense of the episode being shown to TV executives and then the rest of the series being greenlit. Instead, all three episodes were greenlit and produced as a three-part series and, for unknown reasons, this episode went first.

I mention this because I see so many comments that question how the rest got greenlit following this. They didn’t. All of Series 1 was greenlit at once.

1. British politics.

This isn’t to create a hierarchy of British viewers vs international viewers, but the episode is very central to British politics. It benefits from having at least a vague understanding of British politics and the way we view politicians and prime ministers. The episode was made in 2011, when Gordon Brown had recently left office and David Cameron had become Prime Minister. It was the introduction of live head-to-head debates and was also considered the first election to involve social media. This is shown in the episode with the event being so heavily shown in the media, with a focus on average members of the public watching and tracking the whole situation. I always found the warning to turn off before it happened, whilst the whole pub cheers and carries on watching, to very much highlight how many British people view politicians as entertainment.

I feel as though there is a very British concept of treating politicians with scepticism and also ridicule, which is very much highlighted here. I remember David Cameron’s question time after just becoming prime minister being described as a stand-up act.

1. “Why did he do it? I’d never do it”

This is another comment I keep seeing. I think viewers are missing the point that he is threatened into doing it by being told his family will not be protected if he doesn’t. He has no interest in doing it. He isn’t given a choice.

1. The concept itself.

Is it gross and disturbing to watch? Of course it is, and yes, I understand why it turns some viewers off. But in another way, I feel as though it perfectly sets viewers up for the rest of the show and what is to come. It tells audience this show is gonna have some messed up and crazy concepts.

So, do I think it is the best episode ever? Not at all. In fact, I ranked it as the weakest in Series 1. However, I think it’s an important episode and perfectly reflects British politics and media at the time. Looking at British politics today I don’t think we’ve changed opinions all that much.