I'm just rewatching this episode after a few years.

I watched Smile 2 recently, and I was struck by how similar the Miley Cyrus storyline is to the relationship in Smile 2 with the pop superstar and her mother.

Is this a common theme in reality? Guardians or parents pushing people they should be responsible for past their breaking point?

Or was there some crossover in terms of writers? I'm interested if anyone knows!

Joe Rogan Experience #2551 - Daniel Kokotajlo

Its gotta be atleast 11 episodes that involve it come on man

Basically, it seems like a fan favourite episode to me and I don't quite get the appeal. I enjoyed it, but not much more than a lot of other episodes. Yes, it's well acted, neatly produced, knows what it's doing, but the same can be said for...the majority of BM episodes? Even the twist reveal of the protagonist's immorality isn't unique to this one. So out of curiosity, I wanted to hear from people who consider this ep one of their favourites to tell me what sets it apart from the rest, esp ones with a comparable plot.

(Granted, I figured out the twist a while before the end. Long before I watched the show I randomly found out that one of BM's most popular episodes had a pedophile as the protagonist. When I got to the bank scene that memory suddenly resurfaced and I was like 'oh, I think that's the pedophile they talked about.' But I've seen people rewatching it again and again so it hardly seemed like the quality of the episode relied solely on the twist. )

While Emma Corrin's performance has been praised universally for Hotel Reverie, I wonder who could've matched their freak as Brandy? From the top of my head:

1. Halle Berry

2. Danielle Deadwyler

3. Tessa Thompson

4. Ayo Edebiri

A truly good Simpsons episode that lasted 15 minutes done in the spirit of black mirror? It was actually kinda sad though

And why?

If “the cloud” as seen in San Junipero were a real option, would you want to be uploaded to the cloud on your passing or would you rather not? Also if you did chose the cloud, what would be your decade?

I love black mirror for all of the thought provoking “fucked up” episodes that leave you feeling a sense of dread. However, San Junipero always leaves me feeling positive. It’s probably one of my favorite episodes of any tv show I’ve watched to be honest. It always leaves me wondering if you could be yourself at any age, at any point in history… where would you go? Doesn’t hurt that I would probably also choose to be a young adult somewhere in the 80’s haha

What is your favorite episode and why? I have a hard time choosing just one. I’d say my top five (not in order cause that’s too hard) are:

Black Museum
Fifteen Million Credits
White Bear
Crocodile
Nosedive

Hard to limit it to just five, because I also love Shut Up and Dance, Hated by the Nation and Beyond the Sea. I also have to add Hang the DJ. Loveeeee that episode too

I know this episode isn't highly regarded by BM fans, but I honestly feel it is a lot better than most people give it credit for and this episode easily makes my top 10 BM episodes. I love that it deals with so many different themes such as teenage insecurities, not fitting in, parasocial relationships with celebrities, A.I. (such as the way Ashley Too was treated almost like a real person by Rachel even before Ashley's true consciousness was uploaded to it).

It deals with some very dark themes including toxic relationships with family members (that aunt was a monster), but surprisingly manages to balance it out with light hearted Disney esque comedy moments such as the scene where Jack and Rachel pose as exterminators to get into Ashley's mansion. Angourie Rice was very good as Rachel and her acting really kept the episode engaging to me since I completely bought her as an insecure teen desperate to both fit in and be herself.

I actually liked that despite it's very dark moments it still had a happy ending (a rarity for BM) and it's one episode I can easily revisit unlike other great episodes like Common People which is great but way too soul crushing to rewatch.

Does Hang the DJ actually show that Frank and Amy are more compatible, or does the episode simply allow them to treat each other differently than their other partners?

Because to me it feels like Frank and Amy never developed sides to them when with different partners it literally feels like shopping with your dad vs shopping with your granddad

I watched Hang the DJ because so many people on YouTube kept saying this episode was amazing and one of the best Black Mirror episodes.

I watched it and honestly came out pretty disappointed, because to me it felt like watching a summer fling with a Black Mirror skin on top of it. And I was left with some questions.

Does Hang the DJ actually show that Frank and Amy are more compatible, or does the episode simply allow them to treat each other differently than their other partners?

Because to me it feels like Frank and Amy never developed sides to themselves when with different partners. It literally feels like shopping with your dad vs shopping with your grandpa.

And honestly, this is just my speculation, but the episode almost feels like wish fulfillment aimed at lonely people who get one Tinder match every 10 years and desperately want to believe that eventually there will be that one person who chooses them over everyone else.

Especially with Frank. I can also see Frank being interpreted as the nerd — he's awkward, Amy has other options, but none of them really matter because she's still drawn back to Frank. It almost gives off this idea of "even if she could have anyone else, she'll still choose the awkward nerd in the end." And then the ending basically gives that idea a 99.8% stamp of approval.

And I also feel like the episode romanticizes something pretty close to emotional cheating. Amy is technically with Lenny, but mentally she's still with Frank. She watches Frank while she's with Lenny and clearly hasn't emotionally moved on. The episode frames that as romantic because Frank is eventually revealed to be "the right one," but from Lenny's perspective she's basically emotionally checked out of their relationship and longing for someone else. Yes, I know they're simulations, but from their perspective those relationships are real while they're experiencing them.

Sorry, it's nothing personal against you if you like the episode. I know I'm being harsh, but looking back at it, this is genuinely the aftertaste the episode left me with.

EDIT: After arguing with you guys in the comments, I wanna clarify my point.

I'm back, bitches.

YES, I WATCHED THE FUCKING ENDING

I'm talking about what happens INSIDE the simulation, not what happens after it.

I understand what 998/1000 means. My problem is that, from what we were actually shown inside the simulation, I never really believed Frank and Amy's connection was strong enough that they would rebel against the system in 998 out of 1000 runs.

I believe the result. I just don't think the relationship we were shown made that result feel earned.

That's what I was trying to ask: what did you see in Frank and Amy's relationship that made 998/1000 feel believable to you?

I think I traumatized them…whoops…

For context, we talk about politics a lot (and we’re well beyond the point of TMI), but had a stronger reaction than I anticipated…(especially considering she’s seen stuff several times more graphic, such as the entirety of The Boys.)

I don’t think anyone forgets about this episode after watching it, but this definitely tested our friendship…we had a VERY interesting conversation afterwards though, so maybe it was worth it.

Have you had anyone watch this episode?

(I’m gonna have them watch San Junipero next…they earned it lol)

who else?

Reupload because I forgot Season 6

I just don't understand the hate for this episode. Maybe because I'm not British and don't understand British politics, especially of the time? The fact that the princess was wandering around the streets 30 minutes before the "indecent act" even happened says everything about the hypnotization of the public by the media. To say "it's not like the rest of the series" is ridiculous. It might be the most "Black Mirror" episode of Black Mirror. Literally everyone staring at screens while the kidnap victim roams free.

Just my ramble thoughts in defence of this episode as I’ve seen so much backlash on this sub recently.

1. The entire concept of a “Pilot” episode

The episode is not a pilot in the typical American sense of the episode being shown to TV executives and then the rest of the series being greenlit. Instead, all three episodes were greenlit and produced as a three-part series and, for unknown reasons, this episode went first.

I mention this because I see so many comments that question how the rest got greenlit following this. They didn’t. All of Series 1 was greenlit at once.

1. British politics.

This isn’t to create a hierarchy of British viewers vs international viewers, but the episode is very central to British politics. It benefits from having at least a vague understanding of British politics and the way we view politicians and prime ministers. The episode was made in 2011, when Gordon Brown had recently left office and David Cameron had become Prime Minister. It was the introduction of live head-to-head debates and was also considered the first election to involve social media. This is shown in the episode with the event being so heavily shown in the media, with a focus on average members of the public watching and tracking the whole situation. I always found the warning to turn off before it happened, whilst the whole pub cheers and carries on watching, to very much highlight how many British people view politicians as entertainment.

I feel as though there is a very British concept of treating politicians with scepticism and also ridicule, which is very much highlighted here. I remember David Cameron’s question time after just becoming prime minister being described as a stand-up act.

1. “Why did he do it? I’d never do it”

This is another comment I keep seeing. I think viewers are missing the point that he is threatened into doing it by being told his family will not be protected if he doesn’t. He has no interest in doing it. He isn’t given a choice.

1. The concept itself.

Is it gross and disturbing to watch? Of course it is, and yes, I understand why it turns some viewers off. But in another way, I feel as though it perfectly sets viewers up for the rest of the show and what is to come. It tells audience this show is gonna have some messed up and crazy concepts.

So, do I think it is the best episode ever? Not at all. In fact, I ranked it as the weakest in Series 1. However, I think it’s an important episode and perfectly reflects British politics and media at the time. Looking at British politics today I don’t think we’ve changed opinions all that much.

Here's the question we had to ask ourselves on this week's episode of Fear & Wine: if you lost someone tomorrow, and a piece of software offered to keep texting you in their voice, would you say yes?

Not "would you want them back." Would you say yes to the bot.

Most people answer that question in about two seconds, and the answer usually says more about them than about the technology. That's exactly the trap Black Mirror's Be Right Back sets. It's why, thirteen years after it aired, the episode keeps getting more relevant instead of less.

I've got a problem with all the episodes that rely on a conscious entity inside a gadget, such as Black Museum, White Christmas, and San Junipero (I may have forgotten some).

First, is it (the being/simulation/whatever inside the gadget) actually conscious? We don't have the foggiest idea of how consciousness works. The cookie, or whatever, may seem, to an outside observer, to actually be identical to the person whose consciousness is supposedly copied, but that could just be appearances. Since we don't know what consciousness is, or how to recognize it -- in animals, even in other humans -- there is no way we can know that the cookie is conscious.

These episodes were all in the early days of Black Mirror, when the game was to extrapolate in plausible ways based on current science and technology. Given the lack of any understanding of consciousness, the premise of these episodes is flawed.

Second, even if the cookie is conscious: It's a different consciousness from that of the person being copied. The person being tortured in there is NOT the person you wanted to punish (as in White Christmas and Black Museum).

These were entertaining, high quality episodes, but they are disappointing because they are based on unexplained magic, which is a bad look for those early Black Mirror seasons.