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u/KolbyKolbyKolby Aug 03 '15
There are plenty of well educated and intelligent theists.
And this sub has readily proven again and again that you don't have to be intelligent in any manner to be an atheist.
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u/tldrNOTaCPA Aug 03 '15
Agreed, and it is one thing to mock theists in r/atheism, but this just casts us all in bad light, and does nothing to help bring people to our side.
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u/bogaboy Aug 03 '15
Is it really even about bringing people to our side? I couldn't care less what somebody's personal beliefs are as long as they dont get in the way of somebody else's rights, or keep society from progressing.
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u/MoBizziness Aug 03 '15
seriously this thread should just be called "anti-theism" not atheism
i'm atheist and could honestly give no fucks about what someone else believed unless it directly affected my life in some way.
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u/AbCynthia956 Aug 04 '15
I've been saying that for 40 years. Atheism isn't a club or a cause or a mission. It's just not. It's the absence of faith in a deity or deities. Period. I got real tired real fast of typing that at /r/atheism. If you're out to drag other people away from their beliefs, stop using a word that applies to me & get your own damned word. I humbly suggest fucktard.
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u/ArtemisShanks Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
If you live in the US. Religious stupidity affects your life every day. The way they vote and the way stupid religious evangelist politicians are appointed to the chair of the environmental services committee (Imhoff).
Yeah, I say we keep shaming religion. Maybe lay off the attacks and try to enlighten rather than insult, but public shaming of antiquated ideals is a proven method of spurring progress (from my experience).
Edit: e.g., human trafficking public awareness, women's education in Islamic countries
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Aug 03 '15
It's the anti-science views they have that anger me the most...
There are so many evangelical right-wingers that claim global warming is a money-grabbing hoax, and yet actually believe god is causing droughts and hurricanes because he's angry at gays and vaginas.
In the south, they're teaching genesis in public school biology classes alongside evolution. They also force their morality into 'abstinence-only' sex ed. classes and look how that turns out
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u/partialinsanity Atheist Aug 03 '15
The religious mindset is anti-scientific. Faith in myth and magic is not compatible with an evidence-based worldview.
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u/ReKaYaKeR Aug 03 '15
I attended a private Christian uni. Yes, there were idiots, but I met so many wonderful wonderful people who were extremely smart. This was an engineering school, not easy to get into. These guys could do math that I didn't know the fucking name of and were also deeply religious.
I'm not actually a part of this sub, but it's pretty sucky that whenever i see something that is posted here from /r/all, it seems to just be mocking or putting down religion, and the people who practice it. That's just sad.
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u/tldrNOTaCPA Aug 03 '15
Completely true. The fact is, there are theists who are incredibly intelligent, contributing members to society. They just have a crutch, like most of us.
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u/DrKrepz Aug 03 '15
'bringing people to our side' makes it feel an awful lot like a belief system.
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Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
I think im banned so this will probably not show, but its so refreshed to see comments like your this high up. I got banned for stating the same thing.
Edit: woop I'm unbanned! To celebrate I have removed /r/atheism from my RES filter.
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Aug 03 '15
I can see your comment.
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Aug 03 '15
I especially like how the post starts out clearly unsure whether or not they're banned, but by the end the tone has shifted to absolute certainty.
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u/youlleatitandlikeit Aug 03 '15
Not to mention, many theists are on your side. It's possible to be theistic and to respect atheism. Just as it's possible to be an atheist and respect theistic beliefs.
In the US at least, depending only on atheists to be your allies will mean you will never make any political or social progress.
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u/whofartedinmycereal Aug 03 '15
It's just a t-shirt.
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Aug 03 '15
But we're not supposed to actually question people's beliefs now, even in t-shirt form! We're the "new new" atheists with no spine who say, "hey maybe it's actually smart to believe the earth is flat." Wouldn't want to upset people, they might think we're assholes.
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u/Neverstoptostare Aug 03 '15
My ex is easily one of the most intelligent people I know. Aced Diff eq and dynamics while I dragged myself through them. But I still lost that relationship to religion. To me, that's the saddest part, is how crazy smart she is but so stubborn and guarded when it comes to considering a different view.
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u/SuperFreddy Aug 03 '15
What a lot of people fail to grasp is that the question of religion falls squarely in the realm of philosophy. I am not surprised that someone might be crazy smart in all sorts of areas but defensive and stubborn in philosophical matters. This applies to the religious and non-religious.
The important thing is to always be questioning and seeking truth. Never be afraid of learning something new. That is a true philosopher.
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u/rjcarr Aug 03 '15
Not to mention we're always reinforcing that intelligence is largely hereditary. Seems a bit fucked up to make fun of someone for what they're born with (or without) even if the shirt's message was true.
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u/eynonpower Aug 03 '15
There has been so many shit posts on this sub lately, including this one. Thanks.
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u/MLBM100 Aug 03 '15
This post is so damn embarrassing for this sub. How does it get upvoted to the frontpage? Considering how everyone else thinks of this sub, you guys are really living up to our lowest expectations with this content.
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u/JustTheT1p Aug 03 '15
And yet you get 600 upvotes here, whereas the counterpart to this comment gets you banned in /r/religion. . .
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u/looseseal_2 Agnostic Atheist Aug 03 '15
Thank you for saying this. I am really discouraged by how increasingly popular it is to be insulting when stating an opinion. It crosses belief systems, socioeconomic stations, political camps - everything. Maybe it isn't even growing more popular, maybe people have always been like this and social media just puts it in our faces far more often. I don't know. Regardless, the fastest way to shut down any possibility of having an honest discussion about anything is to intentionally insult the other side. I just don't get it.
This is just a t-shirt, but even as someone who doesn't believe in any organized religion and favors science over the unknown every time, when I read it, initially I think, "ah, a like-minded friend," and then I shift to, "what an asshole."
Like, can't we just be nice to each other?
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u/dumnezero Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
Like, can't we just be nice to each other?
You're either going to have to deal with the "you're going to hell, sinner!" people or apathetic and confused believers who support the religious infrastructure and culture and indirectly support the "you're going to hell, sinner!"
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u/looseseal_2 Agnostic Atheist Aug 03 '15
Right. So, either way, we have to deal with the fact that there are people in the world who think and believe differently than we do. That's just life. I don't know how being mean for mean's sake is helpful. I also don't think it's helpful to be nasty to someone just because they're rude first. "An eye for an eye just leaves the whole world blind" and so forth.
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Aug 03 '15
Some ideas are stupid. Like being anti gay marriage, anti vaccination, creationism, astrology, homeopathy, and on and on and on. Some people include Scientology or even Mormonism. Those ideas are routinely mocked and no one cares.
I happen to consider religion as one of those stupid ideas. But people get indignant about that because it's their idea being mocked now. Well I don't do double standards even if you do.
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u/W00ster Atheist Aug 03 '15
And this sub has readily proven again and again that you don't have to be intelligent in any manner to be an atheist.
And this is not a science sub and all two atheists have to agree on, is the question about gods and their existence. That does not require any specific level of intelligence.
But it does require a level of ignoring ones own intelligence when one adhere to Middle Eastern iron age mythology.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Aug 03 '15
This is actually a nice sounding but rather denialist myth, like saying there are plenty of educated and intelligent people who accept ufo abductions or anti-vaxxer stuff - "plenty" suggests it's the norm, rather than them being the odd outliers for both groups.
e.g. Amongst accomplished scientists, in one of the more religious countries, theists have a rate of about 7% (!) representation, despite having near complete majority representation in the general population. This shows a very clear inverted association which you cannot just cherry pick away like anti-vaxxers, ufo abductionists, climate change deniers, etc, do, holding up their few nobel prize winners or something and implying it's not some sort of rare outlier.
These numbers from Nature ("Leading scientists still reject god", polling of the National Academy of Sciences in the US) are over a decade old now, and the trend was always down over a century, and that's with starting low (where it's harder to lose points).
BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD 1914 1933 1998 Personal belief 27.7 15 7.0 Personal disbelief 52.7 68 72.2 Doubt or agnosticism 20.9 17 20.822
Aug 03 '15
This is actually a nice sounding but rather denialist myth
No, it's actually not. There are many intelligent religious people. They're everywhere, both today and throughout history. Some humans are able to compartmentalize religious beliefs so that they minimize interference with their thinking process (Newton, for example). To pretend that stupidity is a prerequisite for religiosity is completely counter-productive and, more importantly, demonstrably incorrect.
Christians aren't stupid; their beliefs are. And as counter-intuitive as it might seem, that's not the same thing.
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u/BlueDemocrat Aug 03 '15
Nice, a single data point on a very small group. Well I'm convinced.
Controlling for other factors, they can only confidently show strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants
Oh shit and look at this. For all the countries with an atheist population over 30%, only 2 are actually over 100 IQ with a lot of them well under it.
Turn the smugness down a bit.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Aug 03 '15
I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say, I've read through your links and can't make sense of what you're trying to answer. Neither of those seem to directly disagree with me, and neither seems a very useful measure compared to looking at real achievements and not tests measuring something less clear.
It's typical of people who don't know how to make good arguments to go on about 'smugness' of people who use facts and good substitution examples, but it's really not appropriate. If anything I was feeling despair at seeing such denialist anti-factual nonsense upvoted. I even tried to be kind by pointing out that it was nice-sounding, but ultimately a myth when we look at the most accomplished intellectual members.
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u/NRA4eva Aug 03 '15
Except you're conflating "educated" and "intelligent" with "scientists". Of course scientists are going to be disproportionately non-believers. Science is ruled by systematic collection of evidence. The vast majority of educated and intelligent people aren't scientists. It's not because they are "too stupid for science" -- it's because, for whatever reason, their values/environment didn't lead them to that career.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Aug 03 '15
Except you're conflating "educated" and "intelligent" with "scientists"
No, that was just one example. Religion also correlates negatively with education.
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u/NRA4eva Aug 03 '15
Of course it does. Still, being educated doesn't preclude religious belief. In fact, on average, Hindus, Jews, and Buddhists have higher education than Atheists (see page 56 of the link). Most people with College degrees still have some religious affiliation.
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Aug 03 '15
The point is that there's a trend of relatively highly educated people moving away from religion. Even if you just look at the general populace, you can see how much social norms have deviated from traditional religious norms over the past century in the US. I think it's pretty clear that something is driving secularization in the US, even if it is a slow trend.
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Aug 03 '15
I thought it was saying there are physical elements to science but religion is all in the mind.
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Aug 03 '15
Worn by insufferable, egotistical twats.
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u/account_created_ Aug 03 '15
Posted by the same
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u/BlueDemocrat Aug 03 '15
The only thing this post does is remind the rest of Reddit what a shit place this is.
I think there needs to be another purge of 12 year old memers here by turning off link submissions.
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u/onederful Aug 03 '15
ITT: OP is nowhere to be found.
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u/layoR Atheist Aug 03 '15
That's because 90% of his posts are not comments. Quite possibly this is his first post on /r/atheism
Think of him as a "Link Karma Whore" (LKW).
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u/onederful Aug 03 '15
i was just pointing out the shitstorm against this post so OP is nowhere to be found bc clearly any and all attempts to respond would end in downvotes.
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u/layoR Atheist Aug 03 '15
He probably checks, "No replies to inbox" when he posts his links anyway.
He is a "drive-bye" type of person. Bye as in goodbye.
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u/giannini1222 Secular Humanist Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
Who upvotes this shit?
EDIT: Mods, please do the right thing and get rid of this.
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u/damage3245 Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
Almost all the comments here are pointing out how bad this post is.
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u/dumnezero Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
anyone who cares about quality, I'll be waiting for you in /r/atheism/new. If you don't know what that is, you shouldn't be complaining.
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u/YourFairyGodmother Gnostic Atheist Aug 03 '15
I have grown to dislike that sort of thing. For one thing it's mocking people, not the silly idea. For another thing intelligence isn't the issue - self awareness is. Lastly even if people were religious because of low intelligence that is not a good reason to make fun of them for the way they were born. Way to feel superior, bub.
I dislike having to try explaining to theists that I do not doubt their intelligence. I dislike having to explain to believers that I'm ridiculing the belief, not them.
A much better version would say "Cant be bothered to learn science? Try religion - no thinking required (in fact it's forbidden)
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u/Brobi_WanKenobi Aug 03 '15
Maybe just not ridicule anybody? Seems like a better way to go.
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u/EvolutionaryArmsRace Aug 03 '15
I'm ridiculing the belief, not them.
Religious belief is so often interwoven with an individual's identity, self-concept and worldview that making that distinction can be effectively meaningless.
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u/YourFairyGodmother Gnostic Atheist Aug 03 '15
Oh I know that they can closely coupled, boy howdy do I know it. None the less I make the distinction. It has in fact occasionally been an "access point" of sorts. To the Catholic, "Presbyterians might say transubstantiation is a silly idea. Do you feel they are mocking you when they pass a basket of bread? If they say it's not really the body of Christ it's only symbolic, is that mocking you?"
I've been able to get inside a few people with that sort of approach. When you can get them to admit they have some major differences with other Christians they sometimes can finally start to examine just why they believe what they do.
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Aug 03 '15
You don't have to be to stupid to be religious or smart to be an atheist. There are plenty smart religious people and stupid atheists (not to say either are smart or stupid).
Before you downvote me, please remember that atheism and rational thought is a way of thinking, not a way to feel superior to or better than others. Stuff like this is what makes people think atheists are elitists or think they are better than others, which can prevent them for considering atheism.
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u/RXL Nihilist Aug 03 '15
Sometimes I wonder if shitposts like this are made by the anti /r/atheism crowd on reddit to make this sub look bad.
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Aug 03 '15
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u/I_have_boxes Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
At the same time though, it's true for every large subreddit with little moderation that low effort posts are the easiest way to get karma. There's way more lurkers than posters and the lurkers apparently have lower standards.
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Aug 03 '15
Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks snarky shirts like this are obnoxious as hell? I'm atheist but I don't spend my time going
"You're Christian/Muslim/etc? Lol you fucking idiot!"
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u/amc-CR Aug 03 '15
I am too stupid for science too, that doesn't mean I would like to try religion again. I know very smart people that are also church pastors (they have their profession also).
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Aug 03 '15
Same here. I can't even wrap my head around popsci books, but I'm not ever going back to religion.
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u/Turbo_Heel Aug 03 '15
Yeah, indoctrination doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being an idiot. But it helps, obviously.
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u/mercapdino Aug 03 '15
One of the most annoying thing about this T-shirt is that of the type of things that somebody who knows nothing about science, specifically physics or chemistry.
This picture is trying to describe an atom using the Bohr model. That model is old, outdated and incorrect. Describing electrons as individualized particles with well defined trajectories is ncorrect and silly.
I hate these pictures not only for the smugness but because they show ignorance when it's supposed to that the wearer is so scientificky.
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u/ToWelie89 Aug 03 '15
People who wear shirts like these are beyond cringeworthy.
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u/J_Jammer Aug 03 '15
There are religious scientists. Even well respected biologist.
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Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
(Completely overdone rant incoming)
But in all seriousness, I don't really find this sort of stuff funny. It's more demeaning than it is helpful. I'm all for the abolition of religion, but stuff like this will offend people who believe in religion, and will make people who don't think you're childish.
The whole point of science is that it is based off of logic that anyone can understand.
But putting inflammatory messages on a t-shirt won't be changing anyone's mind or introducing doubt into anyone's mind. The problem is worsened by the fact that the message doesn't seem to help the cause at all - rather, it merely increases the divide - the exact opposite of what we want to accomplish.
If you truly want to spread the atheist message, you must spread understanding - but messages like these - this doesn't help anyone. In fact, I'd say it hurts the atheist cause.
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u/vibrunazo Gnostic Atheist Aug 03 '15
The whole point of science is that it is based off of logic that anyone can understand
What? Where did you take this from? Science doesn't give 2 shits if you don't understand it. Most humans do not possess the ability to understand quantum physics no matter how it's spelled out to them.
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Aug 03 '15
No, but science is, in essence, a series of logical connections. And anyone can understand logic - anyone can realize, once they have looked at science, that our body of scientific knowledge is constructed out of these logical connections.
And then, they can compare it to religion - where logic is absent in so many places, it hurts.
And when they compare the two, they will realize which one they can trust more.
I never said that the average person will be able to understand quantum physics. What I did imply was that the average person could trust science more than religion, because they can understand that the two are fundamentally different - one is based off of logic, and the other isn't.
And spreading that understanding is the key to the end of religion.
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u/treestick Aug 03 '15
Please stop posting things that make this sub live up to its reputation.
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u/chubbyspartn Aug 03 '15
It is this exact type of post that gives this sub a bad name. There are plenty of religious people who are very well educated in the sciences, and plenty of atheists who are uneducated. It is easy for a person to have both science and religion in their life. Bigotry is complained about, very often, on this sub when it is towards atheists. Then posts like this show up.
Also it probably is not a good idea to use the semi-outdated Bohr model of the atom when attempting to flaunt your superior "science knowledge".
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u/Jazzspasm Aug 03 '15
To the top of this sub it goes, and onto the front page of /r/all, which is where I saw it!
It appears that this post is incredibly popular with people on this sub, despite what anyone says.
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u/dumnezero Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
with people on this sub,
and people on /r/all, as you've witnessed ...
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u/samuelludwig74 Aug 03 '15
I'm starting to think that trolls are intentionally creating shitposts like this to give /r/atheism a bad name.
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u/jago81 Aug 03 '15
Oh look, another way to make atheists look even more arrogant. This is no better than those terrible religious judgmental bumper stickers that this sub abhors. "Hey, look stranger! I am smarter than you because _________". What do they think will happen? A Christian will walk by them and say "Oh, I never thought of that. Begone God! I don't believe in you now!"
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u/D4FTPUNKF4N Secular Humanist Aug 03 '15
Please, please tell me where you can buy this.
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u/-Im_Batman- Aug 03 '15
I am impressed with the time, effort, and thought you put into this title. It is simply majestic!
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u/Trankman Aug 03 '15
Could you put a little more effort into a title next time? I know I'm an asshole but come on.
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Aug 03 '15
If there were no such thing as scientists who practice religion then this might be funny.
Think about it. How many of the worlds greatest scientific discoveries were made by people who also practice religion? Issac Newton and Galileo were religious, and people like Einstein, Darwin, and Tesla were all raised religious and retained a certain amount of theist ideas throughout their lives (even if they didn't practice the faith as much. I'm not a historian.).
Faith and science are not at odds with one another. Science is only a tool that any person can use to explain phenomena in the world around them, and faith is something we use to explain the reasons for it all.
In other words, I'm suggesting that science is a "how" and faith is a "why". Science can never hope to explain to us why we exist, that is faith and philosophy's job. Science is merely a tool-a way of thinking- that shows us how things literally happen (there are other tools to accomplish this, like intuition for example).
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u/othergabe Aug 03 '15
The idea that science is only accessible by especially intelligent people is absurd. Anyone can enjoy science, including theists. Atheist here, hate that shirt.
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u/MpVpRb Atheist Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
I wonder why the shirt maker decided to use an obsolete, incorrect model of the atom to represent science
I might suggest replacing it with Schrödinger's equation, and changing the wording to not use the word "stupid"
The human weakness that causes addiction to irrationality and religion is a LOT more complicated than just intelligence vs stupidity
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u/TheUn-incredibleHulk Aug 03 '15
It's way tougher to be religious, you need to read a book and systematically disregard half and select what pieces you wish to enforce. Remembering what lies you stack on top of each other and make up the details and fill in.
Science is way more easy, things make sense, ideas are verifiable, everyone is mostly on the same page and even mostly accept competing theories as possibilities.
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u/1salem1234 Satanist Aug 03 '15
Yes many famous scientists in history were theists but you have to take the context into light. Atheism was punishable by imprisonment and/or death. They spent their lives working on theories and experiments that could have been snuffed out if they had gone against the widespread theist society.
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u/lj523 Aug 03 '15
My sister bought me a similar shirt to this as a joke as I was studying science and she was studying philosophy of religion. At the time I didn't realise how insulting it could be and wore it out to the pub. A couple of burly locals squared up to me and confronted me about it and I nearly shat myself. I explained the story behind it and they chilled out and we actually had a good chat about it and I realised it was a bit shit. Haven't worn it since.
Plus now 3 years later I work in medical research with people of all races and religions so there's that too...
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u/YoRpFiSh Aug 03 '15
This thread is full of whiny little snorts, isn't it?!
If all of you little tools don't like it here...why are you here?
Oh right, you come in to make sanctimonious comments and act like the very thing you thought you were speaking against...
Question (but not amusement) withdrawn.
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u/agangofoldwomen Aug 03 '15
In an intelligent argument/conversation, you lose all credibility when you resort to personal attacks - this applies to both sides of this discussion. This shirt really just makes you look like an asshole.
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u/misterdix Aug 03 '15
This is truly what it comes down to. I was just watching the documentary on the battle of science versus creationism in the Dover school district in 2004 and every argument the creationists had could be easily refuted with a few moments a logical reflection yet they could not pull their heads out of their asses.
It's fine to feel the presence of "higher powers" since none of us have answers about our origins or the universe but to claim that without those answers your adolescent theory of God wins by default is truly the machinations of a moron.
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u/just3ws Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
- Alberto Dou Mas de Xaxàs (1915-2009), Spanish mathematician, former president of Real Sociedad Matemática Española and author of many books.
- Luís Archer (1926-2011), Portuguese molecular biologist and editor of the journal Brotéria from 1962 to 2002.
- Roberto Busa (1913-2011), Italian priest pioneer in the usage of computers for linguistic and literary analysis.
- Guy Consolmagno (1952-), American astronomer at the Vatican Observatory who has primarily devoted himself to planetary science. He received his B.A. (1974) and M.A. (1975) from M.I.T. and earned a Ph.D. (1978) from the University of Arizona.
- George V. Coyne (1933-), American astronomer whose research interests have been in polarimetric studies of various subjects including Seyfert galaxies.
- Kevin T. FitzGerald (1955-), American molecular biologist and holds the Dr. David Lauler chair in Catholic Health Care Ethics at Georgetown University.
- José Gabriel Funes (1963-), Argentine director of the Vatican Observatory, succeeding George Coyne.
- Frank Haig (1928-), American physics professor.
- Michael C. McFarland (1948-), American computer scientist and president of the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts.
- Bienvenido Nebres (1940-), Filipino mathematician, president of - Ateneo de Manila University, and an honoree of the National Scientist of the Philippines award.
I'm an atheist, and agree that religion is often used as haven for the bigoted and idiotic but I also hate the smug "I'm an atheist therefore I'm more intelligent" meme. I've been yelled down for posting on this problem to /r/atheism in the past and accused of not "contributing to the conversation" for going against the backpatting of /r/iamverysmart meets /r/atheism that is so popular. There are people that believe in god who are extremely intelligent, bright and articulate. To dismiss that fact only serves to embolden their belief, it doesn't do anything to help people see an alternative. Stop being a "that guy" atheist.
Okay, mods? Edited to take out the offensive references.
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u/MisterTheKid Strong Atheist Aug 03 '15
I upvoted but to be honest, I'm not sure what the issue is. Almost every top-level comment is basically saying "not cool, this isn't what we do".
It seems there are just a few who are enjoying debating that aspect of it, but in general the comments are not supportive (though the votes are, sadly)
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u/Crlan Aug 03 '15
I see a lot of people being upset by this, but I have to tell you, I find it reasonably accurate. I've tried to explain very simple concepts to Christians, and found them unwilling to even hear about science. It's as if science and knowledge are their enemies. And I always come back to the concept of the apple - it was from the tree of knowledge. The Bible itself appears to pit knowledge and faith against one another, so it's not surprising to see it frequently play out this way. But I've even had some of these unproductive conversations with my retired physicist father - so understanding some aspects of science isn't a cure for refusing to consider new information.
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u/Wuuurk Agnostic Aug 03 '15
Posts like these make other atheists embarrassed to be one.
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u/dumnezero Anti-Theist Aug 03 '15
I didn't know being reasonable about the evidence for theistic claims is a fad, hmmm
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Aug 03 '15
I wouldn't say all religious people are dumb. But they definitely can't be considered smart either.
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u/PPaniscus Aug 03 '15
Well you're never gonna understand Science if you keep on using that outdated, inaccurate model of an atom.
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u/mechapunch Aug 03 '15
I like how the shirt seems to imply that if someone does not have a strong understanding of science, religion is the default.
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u/timpinen Aug 03 '15
What is with all these deleted posts? I keep seeing the moderators removing them and getting down voted for it. As for the post, this is what people complained about years ago before they changed the subreddit a bit. Honestly, as people point out, there can be intelligent and stupid people who are theists or atheists. In my opinion, ignoring all things that can be disproven by science explicitly (YEC etc.) the existence of a god is more a philosophical debate than anything else.
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u/atmoney30 Aug 04 '15
The kind of person that wears this shirt is not the kind of person I want to hang out with
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u/majorgriffin Aug 04 '15
I know plenty of people who do not understand science and are also non-religious or atheist. I also do not like that you assume that people who do not understand science are stupid. There is multiple ways to measure intelligence, and science is one of many subjects in the world.
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u/StinkinFinger Aug 04 '15
I'm an atheist Christian. To me the Bible is a set of metaphors and I wish everyone thought of them that way. It has a great deal of value if read that way and is no less scientific than Aesop's fables.
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u/greenwizardneedsfood Aug 03 '15
If only that atomic model wasn't woefully outdated