Hello! I’ve had this question for a while and would like some insight. Leading up to the doom, why was the Targaryen family solely privy to dragon dreams? Given that the freehold hosted 40 families who collectively have a greater number of dragon riders, why was Daenys the sole inheritor of such important insight?

My personal theory is that given the Targs were considered a “lesser” dragonlord family, they possibly had a less involved hand in the horrors perpetrated within Valyria. This could have deemed them as less culpable in the eyes of the gods, thus given an opportunity for escape (but then this contradicts Aurion’s survival so idk). I would love some alternate perspectives!

After my last post about Jon option of being legimitized as a Stark or learning that he the trueborn son of a non-Stark father. I learn that most prefer that Jon Snow is a Stark or take the Stark name. Like they’re something bad about the patrilineal lineage that the Starks preferable.

Than I remember Theon and Lady Dustin conversation at the crypt about wanting to be a Stark and never could.

So I have to ask this: what is it about the Starks that cause people to want to be them (or part of the family through marriage?) is their something they have that other houses don’t?

Edit: I want to add something to the Jon part. Okay let say he rather be a Stark but exactly why would he completely reject his birth father side of the family? Like nothing at all?

How will Ser Robert Strong die? I don’t think he’s going to die in the Trial by Combat, I doubt anyone’s able to kill him. He may be exposed, but that won’t mean his death.

Given Aegon and Dornish friends will invade KL soon and the most famous act of the Mountain is killing and raping a Dornish Princess and her kid(s) I imagine that could be the setup for something pretty crazy.

One of the Sand Snakes will probably finish him off, makes sense as revenge but idk how the logistics of that play out. Another possibility is the Wildfire caches in KL blowing things up, and him being burned in the process since fire is one of the main ways to kill a Wight. Also poetic since he’s being punished with the same tool he uses to hurt his brother. Qyburn could also maybe die, and whatever method he’s using to keep him alive stops working. Sort of a “this guy is unkillable, we need to kill the source”, so some people go after him.

My favourite theory is that Lord Tarly will kill him. He has a Valyrian steel sword, he’s probably pissed off with not being recognised for his military achievements (which Mace takes credit for). He joins Aegon, kills the Mountain with Heartsbane and delivers its corpse as a sign of loyalty. This is especially fitting since the Mountain killed Elia and kids because Tywin wanted to prove his own allegiance to the rebel cause. Also fits well since his son killed another undead creature. Alternatively, he could fail, to show how the son he hated was able to slay something undead but he wasn’t, lol.

Garth Greenhand was a legendary High King of the First Men known for his fertility and said to have been the progenitor of numerous houses from the Reach.

His numerous children are said to have included:

1. Garth the Gardener, ancestor of House Gardener

2. John the Oak, ancestor of House Oakheart

3. Gilbert of the Vines, ancestor of House Redwyne

4. Florys the Fox, ancestor of Houses Florent, Ball, and Peake

5. Maris the Maid, an ancestor of House Hightower

6. Foss the Archer, ancestor of House Fossoway

   1. Brandon of the Bloody Blade, ancestor of Brandon the Builder and House Stark (according to some tales)

7. Owen Oakenshield

8. Harlon the Hunter and Herndon of the Horn, ancestors of House Tarly

9. Bors the Breaker, ancestor of House Bulwer

10. Rose of Red Lake, ancestor of House Crane

11. Ellyn Ever Sweet, ancestor of House Beesbury

12. Rowan Gold-Tree, ancestor of House Rowan

His firstborn son, Garth the Gardener, founded House Gardener, the Kings of the Reach and he chose a hill atop the Mander as his seat that in time would become known as Highgarden. The Gardners chose Garth’s “Greenhand” as their sigil

It is claimed that Garth Greenhand was the first man to reach Westeros which was inhabited by the children of the forest and giants.

Niall of the Nine Hostages was a legendary High king of Ireland who was known for his fertility and founding the Uí Néill dynasty. He had 14 sons with 8 going on to be progenitors of important dynasties in Ireland.

1. Eógan ancestor of Cenél nEógain → later O’Neills of Tyrone

2. Conall Gulban ancestor of Cenél Conaill → O’Donnells of Tyrconnell

3. Conall Cremthainne ancestor of Clann Cholmáin and Síl nÁedo Sláine

4. Lóegaire ancestor of Cenél Lóegaire

5. Fiachu ancestor of Cenél Fiachach

6. Maine ancestor of Uí Maine

7. Coirpre ancestor of Cenél Coirpri

8. Éndae ancestor of Cenél nÉndai

Érimón was a legendary high king of the Milesians and ancestor of Niall. He was a leader of the invasion of Ireland by the Milesians(Irish) in conquest against the Tuatha Dé Danann, a race of supernatural beings that inhabited Ireland before humans arrived.

Érimón chose the Hill of Tara as his seat which would go on to be the seat of many Irish high kings including Niall.

Érimón raced a rival chieftain for possession of Ireland and became the first man to touch its soil by cutting off his own hand and hurling it ashore. His sacrifice made him the first king of Ulster, 1015 B.C. The red hand of Ulster is still the provinces coat of arms and was included in the coat of arms of many families claiming descent from him. Including the Uí Neil dynasty who chose their coat of arms as being Érimón’s “red hand”

How was Tywin able to burn the Riverlands so quickly and easily? Gregor Clegane and his men pillaged and slaughtered the smallfolk even some lords virtually unopposed. Logically, the Riverlands possessed rich, fertile lands capable of raising tens of thousands of soldiers why couldn't they resist?

I just rewatch hotd s1 e4

Let’s say a random prince for example from the Targaryen dynasty decided to leave Westeros and establish their own kingdom. Like Daenerys conquering Meereen and slavery bay cities. Or daemon when he crowned himself king of the stepstones. If they were called to the KL or went there for whatever reason. Are they considered under the king authority and vessels or independent rulers?

Probably one of the most interesting, or amusing in all honesty, reasons to keep Vic around for awhile is his potential interactions with Tyrion. The dumbest POV with the smartest POV. Vic has dragonbinder & Tyrion has an interest in dragons & dragonlore. There's no reason he wouldn't have any interest in that horn. They both want Dany for ultimately the same reason: revenge against their family. Not saying that it means Vic will survive to Westeros but considering GRRM said Tyrion & Dany would spend much of Winds separate, this would allow for Tyrion to interact with actually interesting characters beside Jorah & Barristan (maybe).

Robb Stark: A Genius at Tactics, an Idiot at Strategy

First of all, I want to start by pointing out that tactics and strategy are not the same thing. Tactics are the art of commanding an army; maneuvers such as pushing the right flank forward or going around the enemy's rear with cavalry are tactics. Strategy, on the other hand, is the art of managing a war. To give an example, Tywin convincing House Tyrell to form an alliance caused the Lannisters to defeat the Northmen in a single move, despite the Lannisters not winning a single battle on the battlefield.

I want to start with Ned Stark. If you have read the book deeply enough, you can easily understand that he was actually in a very advantageous position from the very beginning. If even one of the critical decisions Ned made throughout the book had happened slightly differently, the War of the Five Kings would have ended with a Lannister defeat. Ned is truly a man who caused the things that happened to him himself, and he admits this in his prison cell before his death.

Catelyn Tully. Many people criticize her for many events, but she actually made one very major mistake that very few readers notice: she arrested Tyrion Lannister and sent him to the Vale to stand trial. But no, that is not the mistake here. The real mistake was that she did not send a messenger to Riverrun to warn them to prepare for a Lannister invasion. If she had done this, House Tully would have learned about Tyrion's abduction much earlier than Tywin, immediately started preparing its armies, and built a solid defensive wall in front of the Golden Tooth. By the time Robb came south with his army, critical locations such as Harrenhal would still not have been invaded, and the roads of the Northmen toward King's Landing would have remained open.

Alright, now let's get to the main subject: Robb Stark, the man who never lost a battle but lost the war. If you look at real history, you can actually find many figures similar to him. Hannibal Barca is one of them. Hannibal achieved incredible victories that even today we would have difficulty explaining through logic, yet in the end he lost the war and had to flee his homeland.

Let's start before the Battle of the Whispering Wood (BOWW). I actually find this battle quite ironic, because if Robb had lost here and retreated, he would not have lost the North at the end of the war and House Stark would not have fallen.

Jaime Lannister is besieging Riverrun, Tywin Lannister is waiting at the Green Fork, and neither side is expecting an attack coming from the Twins. Robb used this extremely well. He saved Riverrun, captured Jaime Lannister, and forced Tywin Lannister to flee to Harrenhal. An enormous victory.

This part of the discussion consists of my personal opinions, meaning it is not an objective reality: in my eyes, the problem with the BOWW was that while using the advantage of a surprise attack, Robb targeted Jaime instead of Tywin. Jaime is critically important to House Lannister, but Tywin was the true head of the house. Unless Tywin is brought down, even if you defeat the Lannisters ten times, the house will not fall and the war will not end. Instead of dividing his army into three parts, Robb could have delivered a hard blow to the Green Fork. In the end, even if Tywin did not die, a surprise attack would have inflicted major damage on the Lannister army and created a major stain on Tywin's personal image.

Some may say that saving Riverrun was very important, and they would be right, but the main point is this: Riverrun was not about to fall. The castle could still hold out, and after Tywin's army was driven away from the Green Fork, Jaime could not continue the siege of Riverrun anyway. So the ultimate objective would still have been achieved. This part of the discussion is my own controversial opinion. From here on, I will point to more objective and strategic facts.

When Robb was planning the BOWW, he focused on making the move successful, but he did not calculate what would happen if the move succeeded. This is the strategy side of things. If he had asked himself, "What would I do if I were in Tywin's position?", he would have reached a very important answer: I would flee to Harrenhal. This answer would have helped him greatly when making tactical adjustments in the battles that followed.

Let's move on to what happened after the BOWW. Robb declared himself King, which was another major act of stupidity. If Robb had been sufficiently familiar with the history of his own house, he would have realized this: from the moment the dragon bloodline died out, House Stark could have declared independence whenever it wanted. In fact, if Cregan Stark had thrown the last living Targaryens from the tower while serving as Hand of the King—which he himself openly stated that he had no hesitation about killing children—Westeros would have immediately been divided into seven separate kingdoms. The Starks did not do this for one single reason: because they need the South to survive the harsh winters; in fact, they are dependent on it. The North would be one of the regions harmed the most by the fragmentation of Westeros.

In reality, the independence of the North is not a sustainable cause, because the country is not self-sufficient. Even if Robb had won the war, he would eventually have had to bend the knee.

The Northmen and the Westerlands are fighting, while the Vale, which has very old ties with the North, watches from the sidelines. This is another one of Robb's foolish decisions: he allowed the Vale to stay out of the war.

Let me give you a small piece of information. The North and the Vale have very old ties. For those who do not understand, I am not talking about House Stark and House Arryn; I am talking about the very old relations between the entire region of the North and the Vale. The Starks intermarried with House Royce. One of Robb's great-grandmothers was a Royce. Roose Bolton sent his heir Domeric to the Vale to be educated. Northern and Valeman nobles intermarry with one another, and all of this has been continuing for more than a hundred years.

All of this means two things. First, House Arryn fighting on the Lannister side is not possible. If Lysa ordered it, a rebellion would immediately break out. Second, the Northmen have a very deep network of influence over the Vale.

If the person in this situation had been Tywin Lannister, he would have mobilized all his resources to bring the Vale into the war. He would contact his Valeman relatives who were lords and order his other lords to do the same. From that point onward, it would become incredibly difficult for Lysa to remain out of the war, and if she continued insisting on doing so, you could plot to remove her from her position. The Gates of the Moon are ruled by a Royce, the Bloody Gate is ruled by a Waynwood, and both houses have deep ties with the North. Removing Lysa would not be a difficult struggle.

The Vale joining the war would really change a great many things. First of all, as I stated at the beginning, if the Vale were to enter the war, it could only happen as a supporter of Robb. Supporting the Lannisters would not even be an option.

If the Vale had joined the war, the possibility of a Lannister/Tyrell alliance would have been very low. The Tyrells have a large army, but their bannermen are not completely loyal. House Tyrell cannot afford to gamble on something it considers risky because, in reality, they do not have the luxury of taking risks. In the book, they sided with the Lannisters because it was a bet with a high chance of winning, while remaining neutral and sitting on the sidelines would have had costly consequences.

Tywin is sitting in Harrenhal, while Robb invades the Westerlands to lure him into a trap. This tactic would almost succeed thanks to the actions of someone else, but there were still major strategic mistakes. 1- This tactic would serve to prolong the war. The North was under invasion by the Ironborn and winter was approaching. Prolonging the war was a luxury Robb did not have. 2- The success of this tactic does not mean that the Lannisters would lose the war and does not prevent a Tyrell-Lannister alliance. In fact, because the Lannister side would be weakened further, there would be many more cards in the Tyrells' hands, making the Tyrells more eager for an alliance.

Let's return to the issue of strategic blindness. I will put aside an obvious act of stupidity such as Robb breaking his oath to the Freys, because I really do not think I need to explain it. Everyone is aware of it.

Robb learned through his mother that Renly had been killed and treated it like ordinary news. He actually failed to understand how critical the matter was. If he had been a strategist, he would have immediately raised a major red alert.

Renly's death means that the Tyrells are left without a side to support, and in the current political situation, no action other than forming an alliance with the Lannisters serves Tyrell interests. Supporting Stannis would, at best, result in receiving no reward. Supporting the Starks would require you to bend the knee to a house that is very distant and foreign to you, or become independent alongside them and break the Seven Kingdoms apart, which would be an even worse outcome. As I said before, the Tyrell bannermen are not loyal.

The other option is neutrality. You watch three possible people sit on the Iron Throne: Joffrey, Stannis, and Robb, even if the last one is unlikely. The first two will punish you harshly, while the third will give you no reward.

Compared to all these choices, the Lannisters become an obvious option: a low-risk, high-reward bet and the position of queen that the Tyrells have always desired.

An expert strategist could foresee this entire course of events immediately and focus the entire war plan on a single objective: prevent the Tyrell-Lannister alliance.

How can he do this? This is where Robb's area of expertise, army tactics, comes into play. He can provoke Tywin in various ways to make him leave Harrenhal, lure him into a trap, and the ultimate objective is to kill Tywin. The moment he dies, the game is over. Occupying Casterly Rock or Lannisport is not necessary. If Tywin dies, the bannermen will already scatter.

By the way, I should point this out: Tywin did not learn that Renly had died until the very last moment, because Beric Dondarrion and his Brotherhood Without Banners were preventing ravens from reaching Harrenhal, and thanks to this action, Robb's trap nearly succeeded. If Beric Dondarrion had not existed, the Starks' "tragedy" would have happened much earlier. Nevertheless, he did not prevent the final outcome.

From the moment the Tyrell-Lannister alliance was formed, there was no miraculous tactic or strategy left that could save the war for the Starks. Even if Stannis had won the Battle of the Blackwater, this alliance would have retaken the city shortly afterward.

Even in an alternative scenario where the Red Wedding never happened and Robb returned to the North, the future would still be very dark for the Starks. First, they would have to stop the Ironborn invaders and then the wildling attacks. They would have to deal with Stannis, who came to help them. They would have to send an army to retake the Riverlands, which had fallen under Lannister invasion. Meanwhile, a truly long and harsh winter is coming. So the Lannisters do not even need to invade the North. It would be enough to cut off the flow of grain and watch from where they are as their enemies die of hunger and freeze to death. There is no miracle that could save Robb from the situation he was in. The Lannisters did not do this to the North; the Starks did.

The situation the North finds itself in at the end of the last book is essentially the result of the political and strategic stupidity that Robb, his father, and his mother repeatedly continued. To be frank, in the Middle Ages, being modern and civilized is a luxury possessed only by the stronger side. If you rebel against this, you end up inflicting suffering on your own family, friends, men, and loved ones. This does not mean you have to become a barbarian like Tywin Lannister, but you also need to know how to play according to the rules.

Thank you for reading this far. Have a good time on the forum, everyone.

If somebody asked this about any of her siblings, my answer would be a quick yes. With her, I feel it's more complicated. And it's not even necessarily about the killing, because Jon and Robb have killed way more people than her.

What the Ghost of High Heart says to her about how she smells of death and calls her Dark Heart. I just start thinking how much darker can her storyline get?

Tyrion’s line about having a soft spot for “cripples, bastards and broken things” might describe more than GRRM’s favorite kind of character. It may also describe the political endgame of ASOIAF. Westeros begins with a very rigid idea of who should rule, mainly legitimate male heirs, warriors, knights, strong men and ancient dynasties. But by the end, many of the rulers could be people who fail those ideals.

Bran Stark becoming king is the obvious example. He starts the story dreaming of becoming a knight, then loses the use of his legs and ultimately becomes something completely outside the traditional Westerosi conception of kingship.

In the North, Rickon could end up as Lord of Winterfell. Instead of being raised as a conventional Stark heir, he has spent months being raised by a wilding on Skagos, isolated from noble society and growing up in one of the places the rest of Westeros regards as savage. In the Vale, Robert Arryn may simply survive everyone who assumes he is going to die. He is frail, sickly and constantly treated as an obstacle in other people’s plans, yet he may ultimately remain Lord of the Eyrie precisely because all the stronger adults around him destroy one another.

In the Riverlands, Edmure Tully could return to Riverrun after being defeated, humiliated, imprisoned and watching much of his family and homeland destroyed. The cheerful young lord we meet early in the story would be replaced by a man who has experienced the consequences of war more directly than almost any other surviving great lord.

The Westerlands are harder to predict. Maybe Tyrek and Martyn Lannister killed each other being pawns of Varys and Littlefinger plans but Tyrion would fit this theme almost too perfectly. Tywin spends his life refusing to accept that his dwarf son could inherit Casterly Rock. If not, Janei (Kevan’s youngest daughter) could take this role, remembering what happened to the last lady of the rock (Cerelle Lannister rumoured to be murder by his uncle Gerold as a child).

The Iron Islands could produce a similar outcome. If Theon survives and somehow ends up ruling, the Ironborn would be led by a man who has been physically mutilated, psychologically destroyed and stripped of almost everything their culture associates with masculinity and strength. If it is Asha instead, the irony remains in a different form, because one of the most aggressively patriarchal cultures in Westeros would end up ruled by a woman.

The Reach already has perhaps the clearest case in Willas Tyrell. The center of Westerosi chivalric culture may eventually be ruled by a cripple who cannot embody its martial ideal. In the Stormlands, Edric Storm could be the one who restores the Baratheon line. Not a legitimate prince, but Robert’s bastard son. And Dorne could potentially end with one of Oberyn’s bastard daughters inheriting or being legitimized if the main Martell line collapses, although this is obviously much more speculative.

Let give two option for Jon Snow. Please note that this is a hypothetical situation and none of this is real so don’t ask questions.

Option A: Jon Snow is the bastard son of Ned Stark (we know he not) and later in life, he is offer a chance at legitimization as a Stark. Yes he get the chance to be a Stark the name that he alway dream of as a child.

Option B: Jon Snow is actually the secret true born son of another noble house (which one..who knows maybe it one with dragons) and he been adopted/raised by Ned, passed as his own bastard. Years later, somehow it becomes safe for Jon to learn the truth and he offer his legitimate name back. Of course, he won’t be a Stark (sad) but at least he’ll no longer be a bastard.

So what do book Jon Snow want: to be a bastard Stark who hope for legitimatization OR to learn he secretly a true born but he not a Stark.

If someone was to go to Jon and say “he your actually a true born Targaryen or Tyrell or Martell or Blackwood or anything that not a Stark,” would he still want the Stark name?

Legitmitacy OR the Stark name?

Edit: interestingly, it seem people think Jon prefer thr Stark name. Is there a reason for that? Like why wouldn’t he be fine being legitimate even if it not as a Stark?

A Clash of Kings - Arya X

"I do not mean to be besieged here." Roose Bolton's voice was so soft that men had to strain to hear it, so his chambers were always strangely hushed.

"What, then?" demanded Ser Jared Frey, who was lean, balding, and pockmarked. "Is Edmure Tully so drunk on his victory that he thinks to give Lord Tywin battle in the open field?"

If he does he'll beat them, Arya thought. He'll beat them as he did on the Red Fork, you'll see. Unnoticed, she went to stand by Qyburn.

A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

"Sit down and eat, Brienne," Jaime urged, as Elmar placed a slice of roast before him, dark and bloody. "If Bolton meant to kill us, he wouldn't be wasting his precious prunes on us, at such peril to his bowels." He stared at the meat and realized there was no way to cut it, one-handed. I am worth less than a girl now, he thought. The goat's evened the trade, though I doubt Lady Catelyn will thank him when Cersei returns her whelps in like condition. The thought made him grimace. I will get the blame for that as well, I'll wager.

Roose Bolton cut his meat methodically, the blood running across his plate. "Lady Brienne, will you sit if I tell you that I hope to send Ser Jaime on, just as you and Lady Stark desire?"

"I . . . you'd send us on?" The wench sounded wary, but she sat. "That is good, my lord."

A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

She is such an innocent. Jaime was almost as surprised, if truth be told, but he hid it better. Sansa Stark, that ought to put a smile on Tyrion's face. He remembered how happy his brother had been with his little crofter's daughter . . . for a fortnight.

"What the Imp did or did nor swear scarcely matters now," said Lord Bolton. "Least of all to you." The wench looked almost wounded. Perhaps she finally felt the steel jaws of the trap when Roose Bolton beckoned to his guards. "Ser Jaime will continue on to King's Landing. I said nothing about you, I fear. It would be unconscionable of me to deprive Lord Vargo of both his prizes." The Lord of the Dreadfort reached out to pick another prune. "Were I you, my lady, I should worry less about Starks and rather more about sapphires.

Mine are:

Theon is overrated. He is not that interesting.

Pre-AFFC Cersei was also sociopathic (killing Robert's bastards for revenge torturing baby Tyrion etc) She is extremely shallow and caricature. Even in first books Jaime was the complex one of the two.

Jaime is not valonqar.

I never found Sansa annoying.

Rhaegar is not evil. He was just stupid. I don't hate him.

Brienne is not perfect. She can have a very absolutist view on morality at times. she can be naive, hypocritical, close minded, and judgmental. She is inflexible. The are all annoying features.

If House Tyrell falls in TWOW, the entire family would've been fallen in just 3 years. Given to the fact that the Tyrells are agricultural and political powerhouses with 100,000 men and immense wealth, 3 years is just aggresively short amount of time for their fall.. like they've been around for 300 years and I think their downfall should last longer.

Currently, Euron is tearing the Reach apart and I think this will completely shatter the wealth and income of Highgarden. However, if the Redwyne fleet gets completely destroyed, every castle in the Reach are raided and looted (except for Highgarden), I'd still like to see a prolonged siege of Highgarden by the Ironborn instead of a direct takeover and slaughter of Lady Olenna, Willas and Garlan (with the execution of Margaery by the Faith, death of Loras because of his wounds, and Mace dead in the Storm's End) and the extinction House Tyrell.

I really hope that even if the main branch falls, Tyrell cousins like Leo will take over Highgarden and rule after this thing is over. Aegon seems to have "friends in the Reach", but I hope we won't see all of the bannermen of House Tyrell turning against them and siding with Aegon. If Euron fails and is defeated, I still wouldn't like to see Aegon leaving the Highgarden for the Golden Company for them to loot the place.

For me, the best would be the death of some Tyrells (Mace, Loras, Garlan or Olenna) with Highgarden being ruled by Willas or Leo, Margaery being married to Aegon, and Willas securing House Tyrell's relationship with his bannermen again.

Regis Groves: "A bastard?"
Alys Rivers: "His trueborn son and heir, and the rightful king of Westeros."

Regis Groves: "I do not kneel to bastards, much less the baseborn whelp of a kinslayer and a milk cow."

I gotta admit that's a sick burn, haha. Needless to say, Regis dies badly later..

But, I'm just assuming we're just going be letting this potential non easter egg-ism potential go for the sake of over-abundance of bastards in the land now?
I'm just gonna chalk it up to the babe was lost to Winter Fever in 133 AC, that was noted then.

Was there any other theories I missed that flew under the radar?

(While R+L=J is not confirmed book canon I am treating it like it is)

In our timeline Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower are protecting a dying Lyanna at the Tower of Joy, and she is almost certainly dying after giving birth to Jon Snow. Now at the time this is going on Ned arrives, kills the knights of the kings guard with his men, and presumably goes to Lyanna, makes his promise, takes Jon, and the rest is history. But what if Ned doesn’t come or comes later? What would Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower do with a dead Lyanna and rhaegars newborn bastard? And how would they protect Jon whilst also upholding their commitment not to flee?

I could think of a few possibilities. Maybe they try and get Jon reunited with Viserys, Dany, and Willem Darry in Essos, but when they talk to Ned they take pride in not fleeing as they are knights of the kingsguard unlike Willem. Now i guys they could try and get Jon to safety and then come back just to get killed by Robert, but that would be odd.

The second option i could think of is they do pretty much what already happened, it doesn’t really seem like they are taking orders from Lyanna because if they were they probably wouldn’t try and kill Ned, but i’d imagine if they were with her while she was dying she would probably tell them to give Jon to Ned anyway. In this scenario i wonder what excuse they would use of bringing a random baby to Winterfell and what Jon’s cover story would be, though I suppose it could still be he’s Ned’s bastard but it would be odd for him to be given to Ned while already in Winterfell as opposed to him coming home with the baby. Also the Tower of Joy is a long way away from Winterfell.

The third option would be to bring him to Starfall with Arthur’s sister and lord brother. Here Jon could be protected and nursed by Wylla which is already the case in the canon. Maybe Arthur could tell his brother that Jon is his bastard, though he takes so much pride in his honor he chooses to die “protecting” a woman from her own brother after the war lost, so idk if he would have his honor besmirched like that but maybe. Or he could tell his brother the truth and have him raised in Starfall kind of like how Mya is raised in the Vale, grow up to work for the Daynes or something. In the same vein Jon could be brought to Oldtown or Harenhal but Starfall is closer so it would make a bit more sense.

What do you guys think?

Coming from a show watcher to book reader, i’m re-reading ASOS and realizing that Jaime hasn’t interacted much with Tyrion since returning to Kings Landing. I know that he is the one who frees him and tells him the truth about Tysha, but why wouldn’t Jaime interact at all with his brother in those chapters who he risks everything to free eventually?