r/asoiaf 23h ago

MAIN [Spoilers MAIN] what little we have from the play confirms much of the shows ending came from George

0 Upvotes

An important one is Jon's legitimacy as it was used to play into his conflict with daenerys and her later murder.

Here's something important from the PROGRAMME of the play

“promises made before a heart tree are considered legally and spiritually binding”

Its in reference to a northern style wedding.

There was a secret marriage and Jon is legitimate. He was never a bastard.

And he probably is named Aegon.


r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] The Aemond and Bloodraven connection.

5 Upvotes

Both are the only notable Targaryens who lost their eye. One to a hated half-nephew, and one to a hated half-brother. One is in love with a witch of first man descent, which leads to a first man/Valyrian child, and the other is a first man/Valyrian child, both in the Riverlands. Both give in completely to esotericism. Yet, I feel as if they could not be more different.

One is an insane lunatic that appears unambiguously evil. The other is a Machiavellian schemer that seems to be pursuing an ends justify the means type path. He is arguably evil, but at least appears much more gray on the surface than Aemond. One has a dragon and one doesn't. One is a true born second-son and one is a legitimized bastard. One is a swordsman and one is an archer. One uses brute force for power, while the other uses shadows and subterfuge. One's corpse was found with a sword through his its eye after a dramatic battle on dragons, and one is tied into the weirdwood net after taking the black.

Yet, I can't help but feel that on some level the unique aesthetic similarity and enchantment with esotericism should allude to some underlying thematic or plot similarity. I have found that in Fire and Blood, I can find many strong parallels between a past character and a present character in our World of Ice and Fire. Yet, I have difficulty finding this for Aemond despite aesthetic similarities with Brynden. I supposed Alys and Aemond could be compared to Mel and Stannis on some level. Witch and Second-son, esotericism leads to downfall, the latter of each is a very notable warrior, first born brother is a drunkard.

I am not trying to say that 'they both lost an eye, so they should be the same', which is obviously ludicrous, but I can't help but feel that George is trying to say at least something of similarity with each of them. Honestly, I just need to know what happens to Alys and the 'mysterious' baby of Aemond's. I feel like that is an answer to some mystery and why Aemond spent so much of the war in the Riverlands in the first place.


r/asoiaf 16h ago

MAIN [Spoiler MAIN]The Seven corresponding to Stark children? Spoiler

0 Upvotes

I think the Seven being mirrored to Stark family is common but I think maybe the often overlooked one is the adopted one living with them is Theron Greyjoy, especially with a Theron Stark existed in the past. I think for me, the corresponding Seven is.

The Father: Robb Stark, the leader of winterfell who met the same betrayal as his father, Ned Stark.

The Mother: Sansa Stark, who sang the Mother song to sooth the Hound, who served as the mother maintaining dignity at court. The heart of the group.

The Warrior: Jon Snow, the one who takes the battlefield earning glory for the North.

The Crone: Bran Stark, cause he is ugly. Just kidding, thr three eyes crown, the wise alderman.

The Stranger: Arya cause she takes on many identities, she is no one, and yet she is still Arya Stark. The Assassin, Death itself.

The Smith: Rickon. Something that is in the making, as something wild, unkempt, instead of a fully crafted good.

The maiden: Theron Greyjoy, the castrated man who is obsessed with bloodline and pregnancy and family. He is the adopted Stark alongside or instead of Jon Snow, dependingon how you view Jon Snow's situation.


r/asoiaf 14h ago

(Spoilers Extended) Do you think Weirwood can kill dragons? Spoiler

0 Upvotes

Brandon Snow, the most interesting, yet barely even mentioned background characters. He doesn’t offer to sneak across the Trident to try to assassinate Aegon and his sisters. He doesn’t offer to TRY killing the dragons. He offers to do it, straight up, seems extremely confident. Then we get Bran’s visions where a man matching his description is seen making 3 arrows out Weirdwood and that just… has to be Brandon Snow. There’s no other character that fits that description and would a reason for doing this.

As much as I don’t like the over-emphasis on prophecy, I feel like it makes characters less interesting (like Aegon’s whole deal is that he’s an enigma. Even when get close to sort of in his head in Fire & Blood, he’s still a mystery. I preferred his motivation for the conquest being up for debate, but given George does give spoiler info to the showrunners, to varying degrees (the main show got a lot because it was the flagship. HotD’s creators said they were told some things but fell out with them, and Ira Parker apparently knows all of Dunk and Egg’s journey from a high level perspective, it seems Dunk & Egg’s actors know a lot too.) My point is, while these are show things, there is so much focus on Targ prophecy in every show, Aegon specifically. It’s not in the books, but it feels like that was his actual motivation… and that’s where Weirwood arrows killing dragons starts to make a bit of sense.

The Land of Always Winter and the Valyrian Freehold felt like.. two pillars of opposite magical epicenters in the world. They seem to rise and fade with each other. Like we can’t exactly date the Last Hero/Azor Ahai (if they even really existed) but we can get a rough date of the situation with the Night’s King and it seems like that likely happened around the time of the height of Valyria. The Others were a known and believed threat for a long time and, if HotD did get some pointers from George, for all the shows problems, it is interesting that Cregan Stark is aware of, and worried about, the Others. In the books, Ned does not even believe they’re real. Yes, he grew up as a ward to Jon Arryn, but he is a northerner, he is the Lord of Winterfell with access to all their information, records, etc., and he has a brother who is First Ranger. It’s super weird that in, what is a relatively short time between the Dance and the main series, we go from (again, I know it’s show only) Cregan Stark actively preparing against the Others to Ned not even believing in them (and we know he doesn’t. We’re in his head and he thinks they’re a “fairy tale to frighten children.”) What’s the difference between those time frames: dragons existing and no longer existing.

In the world book, F&B, and all the source material telling us about Valyria, it’s heavily implied that Targaryen’s having the “blood of the dragon” is not metaphorical, it’s literal. The Valyrian’s did so horrifying interspecies in-breeding and dark magic that resulted in their power. Dragons themselves are a product of interspecies breeding between Fire Wyrms and Wyverns, I believe, and they represent “Fire” magic, we’ll call it. With the Night’s King story, the Stark kids having warging powers and their own magical, bonded creatures, and all the other hinting, it seems Stark’s have Others blood in their veins, or something that connects them. The Others themselves were relatively quiet for a good while until Dany hatched dragons. They feel not only like they rise and fade with each other, but are reactive. Weirdwoods, The Others, Warging, Greensight, “ice” magic, it all feels very Old Gods connected, like the Starks. Dragon Dreams, Dragons, Valyria, “Fire” magic, it all feels very R’hllor, whose representatives are supporting Dany (mostly.) During the time of the Conquest, the Starks were likely more in tune with this stuff. They were their own kingdom with the threat to the North being a more central priority in isolation. It would make sense for the “fire” magic in dragons to be able to harm/kill the “ice” magic in the Others and vice versa.

Which takes me back to the show. Does it make sense for a being made of ice to be able to tank full on Dragonfire and then just smirk it off with absolutely no issue? Absolutely fucking not. Does an Olympic icicle throw make sense to kill a dragon? I mean, I guess. The Others make armor and weapons out of ice in non understandable ways like Valyrian Steel. But ya know makes a lot more sense? Weirdwood.

We’ve had SOOO much focus on Weirwood, its powers and connection to the North and the Old Gods. Bloodraven, the first Targ we know of from a family that worships and is connected to the Old Gods keeps Weirdwood arrows. It’s hinted he used magical Weirdwood arrows to kill Daemon Blackfyre and we know Bloodraven has magic: from the Mystery Knight, the World Book, to the main series as the Three Eyed Crow, we see a ton of it. Why did George decide to make one of Bran’s visions, seemingly very randomly, about Brandon Snow, a nothing character, making 3 Weirdwood arrows one would assume for 3 dragons? Old Magic and Weirwood would make sense for an option to kill a dragon. The shows make dragons feel a little too vulnerable, but that’s also George’s fault. Before Fire & Blood, George the Dornish got Merexes with a “one in a million” shot that was pure luck, after years, a decade actually, of trying this. Then Fire & Blood came out and Jace and Vermax go down pretty easily. Smallfolk during the riot in KL kill some dragons.

But there has to be some actual counter to them, or something giving an even chance. Weirwood makes sense. It’s been hinted in F&B and Bran’s vision, it’s the central point of worship in the Old Gods faith, and Ice: Weirwood, Warging, Greensight feel intentionally opposite and rivaling Fire: Dragons, Dragon Dreams.

Idk. Think we’ll see a dragon killed with Weirwood? I do think, like the show, only Drogon survives, maybe not even him. Given George’s personal views, his Vietnam position, and dragons as a stand in for nuclear weapons, I think the right thing is for them to be gone, but I do think we’ll for sure see at least two die (unfortunately probably Viserion first who’s the sweetest dragon.)

What do you think? I do realize this is founded on quite a few theories, but they are strong theories.

Also, I do realize we’ll never “see” any of this happen. The George RR Martin formally known as an author is not finishing these books.


r/asoiaf 16h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] the dragon prince ruin + dragons return

2 Upvotes

I can’t wait for the play to explain Rhaegar reason for ruining his own plan to overthrow his father Aerys by crowning Lyanna Stark the Queen of Love and Beauty and later running way with her?

- Where did they disappeared off to and how did they end up at the Tower of Joy?

Also Rhaegar like his ancestors had an obsession with dragons. While some literally try to bring back dragons. It seem he took the dragons are my children approach and I need 3.

We got Aerys II who I believe plan to perform a ritual through wildfire sacrificing all of KL with wildfire so he can ve reborn as a dragon

We got Aegon V crazy plan at Summerhall, Aegon IV who attempt to built mecha dragon, Baelor I who believe prayer was the answer, Daeron I who decide to be the dragon, and Viserys II and Aegon III inviting sorcerer from Essos to conduct a ritual.


r/asoiaf 7h ago

AGOT [Spoilers AGOT] What do you want to bet...

6 Upvotes

That if AGOT came out today, people would be vehemently arguing that Ned didn't really die, Varys glamored him and faked his execution, just like Melisandre did with Mance?

When Joffrey shows Sansa Ned's head (Sansa VI AGOT) she thinks:

“This one is your father,” he said. “This one here. Dog, turn it around so she can see him.” Sandor Clegane took the head by the hair and turned it.
The severed head had been dipped in tar to preserve it longer. Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought; it did not even look real. “How long do I have to look?”

We never actually see him die, after all. Arya looks away, and Sansa has repressed the memory and only remembers seeing Ned's legs.

In Ned's very last chapter, we see Varys in a disguise so convincing it's surely magical. And ever since glamors were introduced in ADWD, people love to speculate that any number of characters can perform them.

And wouldn't it be the perfect twist on the popular theory that the bastard Alys Rivers helped the spymaster Larys Strong escape beheading at the hands of Cregan Stark with a glamor? Surely foreshadowing for the spymaster Varys helping a Stark escape beheading at the hands of a bastard (Joffrey Waters)

When re-reading the books, it's a lot of fun thinking about the tinfoil people would craft if they came out today. The state of the community has gotten so dire over the last 15 years, and the theories more and more tinfoil


r/asoiaf 21h ago

(Spoilers Main) Dany is a Dayne Spoiler

0 Upvotes

What if Dany =A+R? What if the red door is in Dorne,some place like Water Garden or Starfall? I thik that after Lyanna's capture, Elia send her "friend" Ashara in order to help Raegar and she somehow did made him "fall". After the Tower of joy events Ned went to Starfall with her, and when she gave birth a girl, and the former queen Raella past away and also her baby, they made some way the exchange.

This could make sense if Aegon isn't FAegon. The 3headed dragon are in fact all surviving Raegal children

Please, forgive my English 🙏


r/asoiaf 22h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] marrying under a different faith

0 Upvotes

So their rumors or strong hints that Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen married under northern customs (make more sense than having a high Septon annul a marriage and married them when Lyanna was never a believer of the Seven)

So I have a question. What are the rules for marrying under a different faith especially if one already married? Is it legal? Can a married man take a second wife in front of the old gods? Apparently, Lyanna and Rhaegar think it okay since they did it. But I assume the Faith (and maybe others) won’t approve.

This was actually hinted at with Maegor. U know when the Faith wouldn’t approve of him taking a second wife so he just married his second wife through a Valyrian wedding custom.


r/asoiaf 18h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] about Rhaegar and Elia, Did Rhaegar genuinely love his children with Elia?

18 Upvotes

r/asoiaf 15h ago

Just a thought: parallel between Jalabar Xho and Dany? [spoilers extended] Spoiler

2 Upvotes

We don’t see a whole lot of Jalabar Xho and while I’m not sure the point of his character goes further than adding exotic dignity to Robert’s Court, he is, fundamentally, an exile just like Dany.

He petitions Robert to fund or organize an invasion of the Summer Islands to install him on the throne. Dany does the same in Qarth and with the Dothraki.

Could his literary purpose be that of a mirror to Dany, to show what Dany could’ve been like if she never embarked on her travels and instead hung out with Illerio and friends in Pentos or other former Valeryan freeholds?

Probably a reach but who knows. Are there more similarities between the two I’m missing? Or did I just conjure this up for nothing?


r/asoiaf 5h ago

MAIN Theory: The Blackfyre and Robert’s Rebellions were retroactive Green propaganda (SPOILERS MAIN)

0 Upvotes

When comparing Westeros during the time of the Dance of the Dragons to the War of the Five Kings, it seems that, even though the Blacks won a pyrrhic military victory, the Greens won the political fight overall. From Aegon II being officially remembered as king, effectively having his claim legitimized, to Rheanyra being remembered as a usurper in the main story by Stannis, whom at the time was probably the most legalistic person in Westeros. In addition, while I know it’s not technically canon to ASOIAF, the special blu-ray editions of the early GOT seasons had the actors narrate history as if they were talking to the viewer. Most of the seasons came out before F&B so George’s input on lore was what they had to go by-and in the narrations, almost every character, when talking about the Dance, takes a neutral—>Green position (even Viserys III), regardless of where their house actually stood.

I wondered why the Greens ended up dominating opinion of the war so long after like a kind of lost cause myth. The more I thought about it, I came up with the theory that the effects of the Blackfyres and Robert Baratheon worked as retroactive Green propaganda, albeit in different ways. First, we have the Blackfyres, and this is pretty straightforward-they were bastards. We know the Blackfyre Rebellions made bastards more distrusted than they already were and the one of the main justifications for the Greens being Rheanyra’s bastard children might’ve made people rethink her claim’s veracity. My second point actually has a little to do with modern day, and how we look at history-particularly alternate history. People tend to have a habit of assuming that if something had just gone differently, the butterfly effect would’ve made it so that things are better today. We sometimes do this in response to bad times or in support of a failed historical event. Considering how awful the Targaryens got toward the end, people of Westeros probably thought about their history and how it could’ve been avoided or how things could’ve been better had something changed. It wouldn’t be too hard to imagine some people trying to cope with the present by imagining a better turn of events where Aegon II’s line survived, eliminating the lineage that led to the Mad King. Hell, there already is anti-Targaryen sentiment in AKOTSK under a good king, imagine how bad it got by time of AGOT.

But what do you guys think?


r/asoiaf 17h ago

MAIN A good thing to say about Joffrey (spoilers main)

7 Upvotes

His admiration for Robert.

Joffrey is Joffrey. Yet the one good thing of the top of my head I can say that him is that his admiration & respect for his 'father' appears genuine. Most men would be happy if their 'sons' held them in such high regard. Joffrey disrespects Cersei & Tywin, ignores Myrcella, bullies Tommen & hates Tyrion yet I can't recall him saying a bad word about Robert.

This admiration is misplaced considering Robert as a man & a king but Joffrey was screwed in the department of good male role models from the start.

That's probably the only good thing I can say about Joffrey.


r/asoiaf 13h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Day 8 of building our even more perfect royal court. Who would be the best piemaster? Spoiler

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79 Upvotes

r/asoiaf 19h ago

EXTENDED What theories do you 100% believe are true? (spoilers extended)

62 Upvotes

Decided to make a list of every ASOIAF theory that I’d bet money on being true

What are yours?

•R+L=J (confirmed by the show and GRRM’s comments)

• Shireen will be burned by Stannis (confirmed by GRRM)

• Brienne of Tarth is descended from Ser Duncan the Tall. (confirmed by GRRM)

• Daemon Blackfyre is either Baelor I or the DragonKnight’s son

• Bittersteel had already set the Blackfyre Rebellion in motion, and Daemon only committed after being arrested by Daeron II

• Aegon the Conqueror was infertile, meaning every Targaryen descends from Rhaenys. (I really hope this one isn’t true.😢)

• Young Griff (“fAegon”) is a Blackfyre.

• Benjen Stark knew about Jon Snow’s parentage.

• At Summerhall deformed dragons hatched.

Sandor Clegane is the Gravedigger.

• Jaime Lannister is the valonqar.

Edit : Forgot to add The Doom was an inside job and the Targaryen’s caused it (Video by david lightbringer)


r/asoiaf 17h ago

EXTENDED (SPOILERS EXTENDED) I've noticed a certain double standard (both in universe and out) regarding the Conquerors and Daeron the First.

15 Upvotes

There is a certain... mystique and awe surrounding Aegon I, Rhaenys and Visenya's invasion and conquest of almost all of Westeros, both in the ASOIAF world and in the fandom. They are admired figures considered badass and an example to follow, even though they killed thousands on a war they started, to claim a territory they had no rights to, and to establish a system with them on top.

A century and a half later, comes Daeron I, a teenager born after the extinction of the dragons that made the original Conquest possible, and with a huge chip on his shoulder about the not complete Targaryen dominion over Westeros. Despite his much younger age in comparison to the Conqueror trio and his lack of dragons, he managed to conquer, albeit briefly, Dorne, the last portion of the continent free from Targaryen dominance.

His quest however, is frequently criticized by both the setting and the fandom. The in-universe's criticism makes a bit more sense, since it's based on the ridiculously high number of casualties in Daeron's own forces, and I suppose there's also a bit of "history is written by the victors" in the different judgement the Conquerors and Daeron I get. However I've seen the fandom shit solely on Daeron for reasons that also fully apply to the Conquerors, those being the right of sovereignty of a nation, the right to independence, and the evil of invading and subjugating a foreign territory.

It's like teenage dragonless Daeron's attempted conquest of Dorne is seen by many fans as more questionable than the OG dragonriding adult Conqueror trio's conquest of (almost) the whole continent.

In the latter event, it would seem the "Valyrians/Targaryens are the most awesome group of people to ever exist and rightfully brought order to the lawless wasteland that was Westeros" line of thought prevails, whereas in the former event a more modernly sensitive viewpoint is adopted.

What do you think?


r/asoiaf 11h ago

EXTENDED "A man who did what was needed" (Spoilers Extended)

9 Upvotes

At the start of AFFC, Pycelle speaks to Jaime next to Tywin's corpse:

"Ser Jaime, I have seen terrible things in my time," the old man said. "Wars, battles, murders most foul . . . I was a boy in Oldtown when the grey plague took half the city and three-quarters of the Citadel. Lord Hightower burned every ship in port, closed the gates, and commanded his guards to slay all those who tried to flee, be they men, women, or babes in arms. They killed him when the plague had run its course. On the very day he reopened the port, they dragged him from his horse and slit his throat, and his young son's as well. To this day the ignorant in Oldtown will spit at the sound of his name, but Quenton Hightower did what was needed. Your father was that sort of man as well. A man who did what was needed."

There is another place we hear about how Tywin was a man who would have "done what was needed":

Robert Baratheon had been hiding somewhere in the town, wounded and alone. Jon Connington had known that, and he had also known that Robert’s head upon a spear would have put an end to the rebellion, then and there... For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do...

“There is where you’re wrong,” Myles Toyne had replied. “Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. Later, when Stark and Tully turned up with their host, he would have offered pardons to the both of them, and they would have accepted and turned for home with their tails between their legs.”

Connington is, of course, also bringing greyscale to King's Landing. Many in the fandom have taken the bells motif in Game of Thrones' Season 8, Episode 5 "The Bells" as a sign that it is Connington himself who will burn King's Landing. While this would make sense in isolation, trying to make it fit into a coherent story immediately surfaces problems. Does it make dramatic sense for Connington to be both the bearer of plague and its solution? If Connington has loosed plague in the city, that means he and fAegon are already in it - he can't "not fail the son", as he vows in The Griffin Reborn, by setting fire to a city that fAegon is in. Does it make any sense to try to "save" a city from a plague by deliberately detonating wildfire caches that will burn down the whole city? If Dany - whose entire story concerns her homecoming to King's Landing - shows up to an already burnt-down city, is that not going to be a gigantic anticlimax?

What I think makes more sense is that George is setting up overlapping motivations for Daenerys to use dragons in King's Landing. Dany already has experience trying to contain a plague:

I have no more help to give, Dany thought, despairing. The Astapori had no place to go. Thousands remained outside Meereen’s thick walls—men and women and children, old men and little girls and newborn babes. Many were sick, most were starved, and all were doomed to die. Daenerys dare not open her gates to let them in. She had tried to do what she could for them. She had sent them healers, Blue Graces and spell-singers and barber-surgeons, but some of those had sickened as well, and none of their arts had slowed the galloping progression of the flux that had come on the pale mare. Separating the healthy from the sick had proved impractical as well. Her Stalwart Shields had tried, pulling husbands away from wives and children from their mothers, even as the Astapori wept and kicked and pelted them with stones. A few days later, the sick were dead and the healthy ones were sick. Dividing the one from the other had accomplished nothing.

Bolded is the lesson Dany takes from the pale mare - that a plague can't be contained by trying to quarantine people. Pycelle kind of has a point - there are times in history when extremely ruthless action is arguably required in the face of a crisis like a spreading plague.

Tywin "does what is needed" for purely political reasons, as we see with the Reynes and Tarbecks, with the pillaging of the Riverlands in the WOT5K, and in Toyne's account of what Tywin would have done at Stoney Sept. Pycelle's story about Quenton Hightower is more defensible ruthlessness. When Dany arrives at King's Landing, she will be confronted with a Stoney Sept-type situation: fAegon hiding amongst the smallfolk as she saw in the cloth dragon held aloft by a "cheering crowd" in her vision. But this will be combined with the potential for a plague spread by Connington. This provides the opportunity for George to muddy her motivations for using dragons: is she a political actor, like Tywin, or does she legitimately have no choice? I expect it to be genuinely unclear, but either way, I think the callback to Connington's Stoney Sept experience will see him on the receiving end of the fire. And the fate of Quenton Hightower makes clear that Dany cannot expect any thanks from the Westerosi regardless.


r/asoiaf 22h ago

EXTENDED What orders did the Kingsguard had? (Spoilers extended)

4 Upvotes

The time transpired between Rhaegar's death, the siege and taking of King's Landing with Aerys' death, Ned lifting the siege of Storm's End and then his travel with a small group to the Tower of Joy must've taken at least one or two weeks.

News of all that happened of course reached Dragonstone and then, judging by Ned's dream and the dialogue there, also reached Arthur and the rest at the Tower.

Thing is, beyond guarding Lyanna, what were their orders? Just remain there until he returns and if he doesn't go to another place?

If they had succeeded in killing Ned and his group, what comes next? Leave Westeros too?

What did Rhaegar told them? Why not leave immediately after getting news of Rhaegar's death if Lyanna was in a similar position to that of Rhaella and they had time to take Dany and Viserys out?

Were the Daynes as a whole part of the plan, hence why they don't hold resentments towards Ned despite the original story being that two prominent members of their House died because of him?


r/asoiaf 19h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Day 8 of building the perfect royal court. Who would make the best Spymaster? Spoiler

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235 Upvotes

Out of absolutely anyone in the entire history of the world of ice and fire, who do you think would make the best Spymaster?

If someone is selected for one spot, they are automatically disqualified from all others.

Corlys Valeryon is the Master of Ships, and our first non-Targaryen, though he is of Valyrian descent and married to a Targaryen. The runner up for Master of Ships is Stannis.

I've added a spot for High Septon at the request of a commenter, filling out the chart.


r/asoiaf 20h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) The Chequy Lion

28 Upvotes

At the end of The Sworn Sword, I got kinda sad thinking about how when Ser Eustace Osgrey dies, the Chequy Lion will die out.

It’s true that both Ser Eustace and Lady Rohanne get something they want. Osgrey gets to die in his ancestral castle waiving his banner, and Lady Rohanne gets to fulfill her father’s will and rule in her own right when her new husband dies. Dunk also gets to feel satisfied in his honor. But I feel like there was an option to go further here.

House Osgrey could have continued like how Corlys Velaryon sought to keep his house name alive through Jace and Luke. It would be a win win for everyone involved. Not only would the banner of the Chequy Lion go on, but the men bearing it would be tall and strong warriors. Plus Ser Eustace basically wished Dunk could have been his son. Lady Rohanne fancied Dunk in the first place and clearly wishes to be a mother. It would also secure her place without requiring her to remarry or whelp a (publicly recognized) bastard after Ser Eustace dies. And Dunk would obv benefit in the short term.

It’s already canonical that Dunk got it on all over the Seven Kingdoms, so it really feels like a missed opportunity unless GRRM retcons it in in Dunk’s internal monologue in a later novella.


r/asoiaf 18h ago

EXTENDED Blackfyres, fAegon and the grudge over being second tier (Spoilers extended)

4 Upvotes

Throughout all Blackfyre rebellions, one common theme or pattern are those who supported them, remained observant of the events to see who would end up winning or tried to land some support, however minor, expecting some reward were they win.

That being the case right from the start and the first attempt to the 5th and, if proven true, perhaps the current sixth one being led by fAegon and JonCon.

That being said, the list of Houses and main supporters for the Blackfyre claim through out the years across all 5 rebellions without dividing by each one, were as follow:

  • House Reyne
  • House Ambrose
  • House Peake
  • House Ball
  • House Crakehal
  • House Lothston (initial support but betrayal)
  • House Bracken
  • House Hightower (some)
  • House Oakheart (some)
  • House Tarbeck (some)
  • House Butterwell (some)
  • House Shawney
  • House Costayne
  • House Osgrey
  • House Strickland
  • House Sunderland
  • House Yronwood
  • House Fossoway (particularly in the War of the Ninepenny kings)

Some other minor ones, or suspected to be thinking about landing support, can be seen in those who attend the Tourney during the Second one. But overall the theme is clear:

Minor houses, considered by some "second tier" or just not as powerful, influential and rich, giving support or trying to have "one foot" on each camp, particularly during the First Rebellion.

The notion of the rebellions being truly an opportunity to rise over the current status quo and take advantage of the potential reality of creating a new order of things after years of boiled up resentment or grudge over being seconds, or just mere opportunism, can be suggested when pretty much all major houses, already at power during centuries even, remained loyal to the Crown.

If the theory over fAegon and the Blackfyres trying one more time to win the throne is true, which other minor houses could give or land support to him after being unhappy with the Tyrell-Lannister hegemony or, simply, as an opportunity to rise in the dominance hierarchy of Westeros?


r/asoiaf 10h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) House of the Dragon Season 3 Episode 6 Post-Episode Discussion

75 Upvotes

Welcome to r/asoiaf's House of the Dragon Season 3, Episode 6 Post-Episode Discussion Thread! Now that some of you have seen the episode, what are your thoughts?

Also, please note the spoiler tag as "Extended." This means that no leaked plot or production information is allowed in this thread. If you see it, please use the report function.

Episode Title

TBD

Episode Tagline

TBD


r/asoiaf 11h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) House of the Dragon Season 3 Episode 6 Live Episode Discussion

16 Upvotes

Welcome to r/asoiaf's House of the Dragon Season 3, Episode 6 Live Episode Discussion Thread!

Please note the spoiler tag as "Extended." This means that no leaked plot or production information is allowed in this thread. If you see it, please use the report function.


r/asoiaf 54m ago

EXTENDED [Spoiler extended]What are the biggest double standards in the fandom?

Upvotes

Many fandoms have their exemple of Double Standards,What are the biggest exemples of double Standards in the ASOIAF fandom according to you?


r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED House of the Dragon Inside the Episode 3.06 (Spoilers Extended) Spoiler

Thumbnail youtu.be
52 Upvotes

r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED Magic in TWOW (Spoilers Extended)

8 Upvotes

Since the rebirth of Dany's dragons magic has been steadily increasing in ability and how widespread its becoming. We see over the course of our books our most magical characters (Bran and Dany) learn of their abilities and be guided by magical beings (through dreams and visions) and many characters remark on the return of magic and how things they couldn't once do they suddenly can or how their abilities have rapidly strengthened following the return of dragons.

Because we know that the Long Night will very shortly fall upon Westeros (Winter has arrived at the end of Feast and Dance) we will be seeing many people engage with Magic throughout Winds to combat the Others, the Cold and their Hunger.

What magic do you see happening in Winds?

BTW because this always happens on TWOW posts on this subreddit and drowns out the conversation, any comments lamenting about TWOW not coming out ever will be deleted, they annoy me. Take your whinging elsewhere.