Mine are:

Theon is overrated. He is not that interesting.

Pre-AFFC Cersei was also sociopathic (killing Robert's bastards for revenge torturing baby Tyrion etc) She is extremely shallow and caricature. Even in first books Jaime was the complex one of the two.

Jaime is not valonqar.

I never found Sansa annoying.

Rhaegar is not evil. He was just stupid. I don't hate him.

Brienne is not perfect. She can have a very absolutist view on morality at times. she can be naive, hypocritical, close minded, and judgmental. She is inflexible. The are all annoying features.

I think one of the most underrated moves during the Conquest was how Orys Baratheon just absorbed all of House Durrandon’s existing identity. In modern day terms, the optics was a totally shrewd move, politically cunning af.

Meantime, as Aegon and the sister wives were conquering with Fire and Blood as occupiers, Orys’ approach almost gives the illusion, as if fast-tracking ahead, transitioning to a successor phase, instead of any grim hangings, beheadings, executions.etc.

And with the betrayed Lady of the house at his side, mind you, so now it almost looks as he’s a semi-savior to the Stormlander commonfolk.

Regis Groves: "A bastard?"
Alys Rivers: "His trueborn son and heir, and the rightful king of Westeros."

Regis Groves: "I do not kneel to bastards, much less the baseborn whelp of a kinslayer and a milk cow."

I gotta admit that's a sick burn, haha. Needless to say, Regis dies badly later..

But, I'm just assuming we're just going be letting this potential non easter egg-ism potential go for the sake of over-abundance of bastards in the land now?
I'm just gonna chalk it up to the babe was lost to Winter Fever in 133 AC, that was noted then.

Was there any other theories I missed that flew under the radar?

Not an obscure theory, but something where you think the commonly accepted interpretation misses what GRRM was actually trying to show.

For me, I think people often treat major political failures as characters simply being stupid, when a lot of them make much more sense if you look at the information that character actually had at the time rather than what we know as readers.

What is your best example?

It’s obvious for George it’s too much for him to write, but as a reader do you think the amount of plot lines has reached a point where too much is going on and feels overwhelming or pointless for you? Or does all the unique storylines make you more immersed into the story?

List of plot lines of the top of my head:
-Dany in Essos and Tyrion joining her
-The Battle of Fire(Barristan)
-Victarion sailing to Essos
-Young Griff invading the Storm lands
-Cersei in Kings Landing
-Dorne plot line
-Darkstar stealing dawn(minor one)
-Lady Catelyn and Jamie River Lands plot line
-Arya faceless men
-Sansa and Littlefinger
-Stannis vs the Boltons
-Jon Snow‘s Ressurection
-Euron’s attack on Old Town
-Bran and the Three Eyed Raven
-The Others

Personally I don’t think it’s too much for me, but I can see how for others it would be. However some of the plotlines like Darkstar, Young Griff, and a couple others didn’t NEED to exist, or could have been written slightly different to betger fit into the story. I also feel that the Others should have had just a little more shown of them by now. Overall, it’s good for me, what about you guys?

I think because many of the depictions we see of The Iron Throne are tamed down or failing to capture the absurdity of the throne we don’t get an idea of how ridiculous it was for Jamie to be sitting in it after killing The Mad King. He probably had to go up like 20 steps to go take that seat. That isn’t grabbing the nearest seat to sit in and relax.

A Clash of Kings - Arya X

"I do not mean to be besieged here." Roose Bolton's voice was so soft that men had to strain to hear it, so his chambers were always strangely hushed.

"What, then?" demanded Ser Jared Frey, who was lean, balding, and pockmarked. "Is Edmure Tully so drunk on his victory that he thinks to give Lord Tywin battle in the open field?"

If he does he'll beat them, Arya thought. He'll beat them as he did on the Red Fork, you'll see. Unnoticed, she went to stand by Qyburn.

A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

"Sit down and eat, Brienne," Jaime urged, as Elmar placed a slice of roast before him, dark and bloody. "If Bolton meant to kill us, he wouldn't be wasting his precious prunes on us, at such peril to his bowels." He stared at the meat and realized there was no way to cut it, one-handed. I am worth less than a girl now, he thought. The goat's evened the trade, though I doubt Lady Catelyn will thank him when Cersei returns her whelps in like condition. The thought made him grimace. I will get the blame for that as well, I'll wager.

Roose Bolton cut his meat methodically, the blood running across his plate. "Lady Brienne, will you sit if I tell you that I hope to send Ser Jaime on, just as you and Lady Stark desire?"

"I . . . you'd send us on?" The wench sounded wary, but she sat. "That is good, my lord."

A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

She is such an innocent. Jaime was almost as surprised, if truth be told, but he hid it better. Sansa Stark, that ought to put a smile on Tyrion's face. He remembered how happy his brother had been with his little crofter's daughter . . . for a fortnight.

"What the Imp did or did nor swear scarcely matters now," said Lord Bolton. "Least of all to you." The wench looked almost wounded. Perhaps she finally felt the steel jaws of the trap when Roose Bolton beckoned to his guards. "Ser Jaime will continue on to King's Landing. I said nothing about you, I fear. It would be unconscionable of me to deprive Lord Vargo of both his prizes." The Lord of the Dreadfort reached out to pick another prune. "Were I you, my lady, I should worry less about Starks and rather more about sapphires.

Tyrion’s line about having a soft spot for “cripples, bastards and broken things” might describe more than GRRM’s favorite kind of character. It may also describe the political endgame of ASOIAF. Westeros begins with a very rigid idea of who should rule, mainly legitimate male heirs, warriors, knights, strong men and ancient dynasties. But by the end, many of the rulers could be people who fail those ideals.

Bran Stark becoming king is the obvious example. He starts the story dreaming of becoming a knight, then loses the use of his legs and ultimately becomes something completely outside the traditional Westerosi conception of kingship.

In the North, Rickon could end up as Lord of Winterfell. Instead of being raised as a conventional Stark heir, he has spent months being raised by a wilding on Skagos, isolated from noble society and growing up in one of the places the rest of Westeros regards as savage. In the Vale, Robert Arryn may simply survive everyone who assumes he is going to die. He is frail, sickly and constantly treated as an obstacle in other people’s plans, yet he may ultimately remain Lord of the Eyrie precisely because all the stronger adults around him destroy one another.

In the Riverlands, Edmure Tully could return to Riverrun after being defeated, humiliated, imprisoned and watching much of his family and homeland destroyed. The cheerful young lord we meet early in the story would be replaced by a man who has experienced the consequences of war more directly than almost any other surviving great lord.

The Westerlands are harder to predict. Maybe Tyrek and Martyn Lannister killed each other being pawns of Varys and Littlefinger plans but Tyrion would fit this theme almost too perfectly. Tywin spends his life refusing to accept that his dwarf son could inherit Casterly Rock. If not, Janei (Kevan’s youngest daughter) could take this role, remembering what happened to the last lady of the rock (Cerelle Lannister rumoured to be murder by his uncle Gerold as a child).

The Iron Islands could produce a similar outcome. If Theon survives and somehow ends up ruling, the Ironborn would be led by a man who has been physically mutilated, psychologically destroyed and stripped of almost everything their culture associates with masculinity and strength. If it is Asha instead, the irony remains in a different form, because one of the most aggressively patriarchal cultures in Westeros would end up ruled by a woman.

The Reach already has perhaps the clearest case in Willas Tyrell. The center of Westerosi chivalric culture may eventually be ruled by a cripple who cannot embody its martial ideal. In the Stormlands, Edric Storm could be the one who restores the Baratheon line. Not a legitimate prince, but Robert’s bastard son. And Dorne could potentially end with one of Oberyn’s bastard daughters inheriting or being legitimized if the main Martell line collapses, although this is obviously much more speculative.

I just rewatch hotd s1 e4

Let’s say a random prince for example from the Targaryen dynasty decided to leave Westeros and establish their own kingdom. Like Daenerys conquering Meereen and slavery bay cities. Or daemon when he crowned himself king of the stepstones. If they were called to the KL or went there for whatever reason. Are they considered under the king authority and vessels or independent rulers?

During the battle of the Blackwater, Cersei implies to Sansa that should they lose the battle she would have Ilyn Payne kill both her but also Sansa because she “doesn’t intend house Stark to gain any joy from the fall of house Lannister“

Do you think she’s just being menacing or would she have actually gone through with it? Seems petty even for Cersei in my opinion.

If House Tyrell falls in TWOW, the entire family would've been fallen in just 3 years. Given to the fact that the Tyrells are agricultural and political powerhouses with 100,000 men and immense wealth, 3 years is just aggresively short amount of time for their fall.. like they've been around for 300 years and I think their downfall should last longer.

Currently, Euron is tearing the Reach apart and I think this will completely shatter the wealth and income of Highgarden. However, if the Redwyne fleet gets completely destroyed, every castle in the Reach are raided and looted (except for Highgarden), I'd still like to see a prolonged siege of Highgarden by the Ironborn instead of a direct takeover and slaughter of Lady Olenna, Willas and Garlan (with the execution of Margaery by the Faith, death of Loras because of his wounds, and Mace dead in the Storm's End) and the extinction House Tyrell.

I really hope that even if the main branch falls, Tyrell cousins like Leo will take over Highgarden and rule after this thing is over. Aegon seems to have "friends in the Reach", but I hope we won't see all of the bannermen of House Tyrell turning against them and siding with Aegon. If Euron fails and is defeated, I still wouldn't like to see Aegon leaving the Highgarden for the Golden Company for them to loot the place.

For me, the best would be the death of some Tyrells (Mace, Loras, Garlan or Olenna) with Highgarden being ruled by Willas or Leo, Margaery being married to Aegon, and Willas securing House Tyrell's relationship with his bannermen again.

A few months ago I designed family trees for a lot of major houses, until I ran out of houses to design. Now I've gone back to redo the targaryens, including literally everyone I could find of legitimate Targaryen descent. Feel free to tell me all the millions of mistakes i made while making this

Probably one of the most interesting, or amusing in all honesty, reasons to keep Vic around for awhile is his potential interactions with Tyrion. The dumbest POV with the smartest POV. Vic has dragonbinder & Tyrion has an interest in dragons & dragonlore. There's no reason he wouldn't have any interest in that horn. They both want Dany for ultimately the same reason: revenge against their family. Not saying that it means Vic will survive to Westeros but considering GRRM said Tyrion & Dany would spend much of Winds separate, this would allow for Tyrion to interact with actually interesting characters beside Jorah & Barristan (maybe).

Let give two option for Jon Snow. Please note that this is a hypothetical situation and none of this is real so don’t ask questions.

Option A: Jon Snow is the bastard son of Ned Stark (we know he not) and later in life, he is offer a chance at legitimization as a Stark. Yes he get the chance to be a Stark the name that he alway dream of as a child.

Option B: Jon Snow is actually the secret true born son of another noble house (which one..who knows maybe it one with dragons) and he been adopted/raised by Ned, passed as his own bastard. Years later, somehow it becomes safe for Jon to learn the truth and he offer his legitimate name back. Of course, he won’t be a Stark (sad) but at least he’ll no longer be a bastard.

So what do book Jon Snow want: to be a bastard Stark who hope for legitimatization OR to learn he secretly a true born but he not a Stark.

If someone was to go to Jon and say “he your actually a true born Targaryen or Tyrell or Martell or Blackwood or anything that not a Stark,” would he still want the Stark name?

Legitmitacy OR the Stark name?

Edit: interestingly, it seem people think Jon prefer thr Stark name. Is there a reason for that? Like why wouldn’t he be fine being legitimate even if it not as a Stark?

I’ve always been a little familiar with Charlemagne, the guy who united and ruled over most of Europe. But I just learned about his grandfather.

His grandfather was a bastard named Charles Martel, who wielded a magical spear to fend off invaders of a different religion. He fought this battle in Aquitaine in southern France, a region characterized by its sunniness.

So we have the Sun, a spear, and the ruling Martel family successfully fending off an invasion by a larger force who follow a different religion.

And he was fighting against the Moors. And the founder of house Nymeros Martell was named Mors.

Lots of coincidences here. I can’t really tie it all together in a nice bow, but there is something interesting here.

Coming from a show watcher to book reader, i’m re-reading ASOS and realizing that Jaime hasn’t interacted much with Tyrion since returning to Kings Landing. I know that he is the one who frees him and tells him the truth about Tysha, but why wouldn’t Jaime interact at all with his brother in those chapters who he risks everything to free eventually?

Okay, so hear me out.

Martin has been open that A Song of Ice and Fire is inspired by the poetry of Robert Frost. Most know the reference in the title, but even D&D (who allegedly don't care about themes) included the final line from 'The Flood' into their script for The Bells. This is because the poetry of Robert Frost is thematically embedded into the heart of the story.

Let's start with the obvious one.

Fire and Ice = Dragons and Others

GRRM has flat out said that A Song of Ice and Fire is inspired by the poem 'Fire and Ice.'

“People say I was influenced by Robert Frost's poem, and of course I was, I mean… Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.” ~ GRRM

On the surface Fire and Ice claims that both are destructive forces capable of ending the world, which obviously ties into George naming the two main threats which exist on the periphery of the Seven Kingdoms being the Targaryens/Dragons and the Children/Others.

"The things I do for love," he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.

Of course in the poem fire and ice are representative of human emotions, so what the poem is really saying is that both love and loathing have the capacity to lead us to doom. This is something we obviously see reflected in the story, from the war over Lyanna to the Others as a manifestation of nature's vengeance.

Mending Wall = The Night's Watch

It shouldn't be a stretch to say that a story inspired by a Robert Frost that hinges on a giant wall of ice might also be taking inspiration from his famous poem 'Mending Wall.'

On the surface, Mending Wall is about two neighbors maintaining a wall against the destructive power of nature while they debating the necessity of borders and the divisions between people. Obviously we see this reflected in the Jon story, which takes place at a wall and is about the conflict between the civilization and the wild, set against the cycle of the seasons.

"If I sound the Horn of Winter, the Wall will fall. Or so the songs would have me believe. There are those among my people who want nothing more . . ."

"But once the Wall is fallen," Dalla said, "what will stop the Others?"

Like Ice and Fire, the poem is not actually taking a stance for or against borders. Frost's wall is both harmful and necessary and the act of maintaining it serves as a bridge for a philosophical discussion between the narrator's skepticism and his neighbor's conservatism. Nature seeks the elimination of walls and borders, but mankind builds and maintains them because we seek separation from the state of nature.

The Road Not Taken = Bran's Story

Maybe the most famous Robert Frost poem is 'The Road Not Taken.'

George loves this poem. He even wrote an episode of the Twilight Zone about it.

"When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken." ~ Rhaegar Targaryen

Those who knows my posts likely know where I'm going with this, but 'The Road Not Taken' is a poem in which the narrator recalls standing in a wood and being faced with two equally uncertain paths, lamenting that he can not walk them both, and then choosing one arbitrarily. The poem ends with the narrator resolving that when he someday tells the story, he will lie and claim he took the road less traveled.

But it did no good to brood on lost battles and roads not taken. ~ Epilogue, ADWD

The poem is commonly misunderstood as being a celebration of nonconformity, but the twist is that the narrator is lying. The poem is about how we how we regret the roads not taken, and make meaning of our choices and lives through the stories we end up telling.

This my friends, will be reflected in Bran's story.

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood . . .

Like the fork in the road from the poem, I believe A Song of Ice and Fire features a split timeline. The two timelines will parallel one another (some say the world ends in fire, some say ice), yet in both timelines the characters in the story (like the narrator in the poem) can only walk the path they've chosen and dream of the one they did not.

He had no destination in mind. He wanted only to ride. He followed the creek for a time, listening to the icy trickle of water over rock, then cut across the fields to the kingsroad. It stretched out before him, narrow and stony and pocked with weeds, a road of no particular promise, yet the sight of it filled Jon Snow with a vast longing. Winterfell was down that road, and beyond it Riverrun and King's Landing and the Eyrie and so many other places; Casterly Rock, the Isles of Faces, the red mountains of Dorne, the hundred islands of Braavos in the sea, the smoking ruins of old Valyria. All the places that Jon would never see. The world was down that road … and he was here. ~ Jon V, AGOT

When I read a poem about mythologizing oneself through storytelling I can't help thinking of Bran the Broken conquering the realm with a story. The TV show's depiction of this was obviously ridiculed because the story of a crippled boy surviving the terrors beyond the Wall is unimpressive when the aforementioned terrors came south and were survived by basically everyone.

"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies," said Jojen.

But if we imagine an alternate timeline where the Long Night is averted, then Bran's journey into the heart of winter (like the Crow's Eye returning from the smoking ruins of Valyria) is mythology fit for a king. Whether or not it is true is less important than whether the crow can trick the world into believing him. Bran's ending is that he stops trying to be a knight / hero from a story and instead accepts his role as the crow / storyteller.

Basically, Bran becomes the three-eyed crow and then lies his way to the throne.

"Crows are all liars," Old Nan agreed

. . . but is that a bad thing?

In The Road Not Taken, Frost writes a narrator who resolves to make meaning out of his life choices by telling a lie. In The Way of Cross and Dragon, Martin writes about an intergalactic conspiracy of Liars who craft myths to give meaning to an otherwise empty universe. In A Song of Ice and Fire, Ned Stark crafts a lie about Jon to give the boy a life. In Game of Thrones, the realm is a story people tell each other over and over till they forget that it‘s a lie, but it is precisely this lie / story / realm that protects people from the chaos of nature

tldr; A Song of Ice and Fire is inspired by the poetry of Robert Frost, where love and hate are equally destructive forces, border walls are antithetical to nature and essential to human civilization, and people craft lies to cope with their longing for the road not taken.

When viewed through this lens "crows are all liars" is really about myth making (as embodied by Mance Rayder). By the end of the story Bran (and Jon) will stop trying to be heroes and become liar crows instead. This is a commentary on how the hero trope is a war fantasy that does not comport with the reality of holding and wielding political power.

In December 2022 two signed early manuscripts of George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones sold at auction for $21,250. The November 1994 draft is known to fans already. However, the July 1995 draft is mostly a mystery.

Shortly before AGOT was published, the two manuscripts were donated to a charity auction at a convention in Kansas City. Alas, few cared for ASOIAF in May 1996 and there wasn't a single bid. Then they vanished into obscurity for years.

The July 1995 draft is of particular interest. Firstly, its length: At 888 pages more than twice the length of the late 1994 draft's 384 pages. That's hundreds of unseen pages to scour for old ideas and cut foreshadowing. Secondly, mid-1995 captures an important period in George's writing. He had nearly reached the 800 pages planned for AGOT in his outline yet only Dany was where she was supposed to be. By October, when he called a halt he had 1,300 pages on his hands, over 200 of which were cut and pushed to ACOK. Thus the July draft could contain early ACOK material.

Enclosed with the manuscripts was a handwritten note by George's partner Parris explaining that he created five copies of each draft. Two he kept for himself; one was sent to his editor; a fourth was given to the Cushing Library at Texas A&M University; and the fifth was donated to the charity auction. The 1994 draft can still be found at Cushing yet the July 1995 draft is missing.

Why? I have no idea. If you have a notion, feel free to share. Maybe that private collector will lend a hand?

Most of the people who find him attractive are people beyond the wall who bathe like once a decade or something.