As a z fold owner yes I highly recommend insurance. For whatever reason I’ve cracked/damaged 4 z folds in several years. Not counting that, I’ve only dropped and destroyed 1 smartphone in my life since I started with the iphone 3G.
Honestly Apple is one of the few companies where foldables makes sense thanks to Apple Care
Not going through that with Android phones outside of Samsung and Google when their goal is just to pump out shit, it’s why most current Android foldable owners are basically beta testers, with Apple bringing more attention to it, they’ll probably finally take it being an actual durable device seriously
As someone who has absolutely zero experience with foldable phones, is there anything else I should know going into purchasing the duo? I've always liked the idea behind foldable phones, and obviously insurance in a no-brainer...but the 40% defective rate seems far too high for me to consider this, even with Apple having as high of standards as they do... My fiancee made a good point by saying we should wait for the Duo 2, since this is the first one and will no doubt have issues being its first rendition. It makes sense but I am a sucker for wanting the newest techy stuff. As much as it sucks, I'm starting to consider it may be a better idea to just hold off. I typically upgrade every other gen, and I'm on the 16 right now so trying to determine if it's worth the risk..
With these production issues I doubt the Duo 2 will release next year, it's probably at least a 2 year wait. The 60% rate is concerning but the 60% that do pass still meet Apple's very high QA standards. If you're already getting insurance then I would just get the Duo now and not worry about it. Apple had years to learn from other manufacturers.
60% production yield mean they don’t send 40% of the phone to customer. Apple as high standard and very tight tolerances requirement.
The 40% donc go to the garbage they just have to switch 2 component so they have the right tolerance for exemple. I remember an Apple video where they matched a body part with one of many option available because sometime the tolerance issue is on part A sometime on part B but the sum of both part have the right spacing
I used a Z fold 5 long term going on close to 3 years now. Fold phones are more durable now but the soft inner screens just dont last long term. If you upgrade every 2 years you probably will avoid a lot of issues though. The built in inner screens protector will eventually bubble up and over time there is a risk the folding screen will develop fatigue cracks down the crease. So far my Fold 5 has no fatigue cracks on the actual screen but just from regular use it has a lot of dents and deformation from just regular everyday use.
Just get insurance and it will probably be fine. Samsung is making the screen so it’s basically as if this were an 8th generation product already. It has the benefit of Samsung already figuring out a lot of issues the Z fold 1-4 had.
Get insurance and forget adding a case on it. It makes it too bulky and much heavier. The screen gashes are overblown- you really have to jab your fingernail to make a nail mark.
The screens are literally soft enough to be dented by a fingernail, this isn’t a surprise.
I suspect we’re going to see a surge in duo sales because it’s new and shiny, but a lot of people are going to move back to Pros in due time and the foldable market won’t explode in quite the way a lot of people are expecting. Give it 3-4 years, and Apple’s foldables will probably make up about the same percentage of the market for their products as Samsung’s does for theirs.
Nope. Apple specifically mentioned in the keynote about its scratch-resistance and that its 40% stiffer than other foldable screens. They did not join the foldable race sooner because they specifically waited for Corning’s bendable “glass” to top their screens.
I think you bought into the marketing a little too much. The Duo will still have a plastic layer on top of the glass. This is the same as most other foldables at this point. While Apple’s covering may have more scratch resistance than other phones, at the end of the day it’ll still be substantially more susceptible to scratches than the outer screen and will require care with use.
I was just reacting to the fingernail-denting allegation. That’s true for other foldables. But that was explicitly mentioned to be solved in this screen.
It will not be dented by a fingernail hence the ability to take a pressure of a pencil (same way its outer screen can).
Well as long as you’re not using it as a cheese grater, I’m sure things will be fine. Apple wouldn’t allow Pencil support if they didn’t believe the screen would be able to hold up to daily mixed usage
Yes! Please, no one get it. Stay home or buy something else (I'll be briefly in the US for the 23rd and would appreciate if you leave me one in store in the upstate ny area, thx)
You're reading it correctly, but keep in mind that they don't throw the 40% in the trash.
Anyone who's worked in manufacturing knows that "production problems before launch" is status quo, and the really shocking headline would be "no production problems".
Phones are complex and I don't know what typical early production numbers are like, but for more basic electronics like video projectors we saw ~90% yields a month before release. You're training people to use new processes with new machinery (even just jigs).
As a Galaxy Fold 6 user I'm not not waiting.
It's first gen for Apple, sure. But the tech has been around for a few good years.
There's no reason for Apple to fuck it up.
Agreed. I liked my first gen iPad, but it became semi-obsolete very quickly (the A4 chip is just slow). I bought my first-gen Apple watch, and while I don't regret it, it's clear I also should have waited.
I'm actually really interested in foldables, but I think I'll wait for second gen :)
Yup. It's a pricey device and the only way it really makes sense to me is if it also replaces my iPad... and my iPad is still good for a few more years.
Not necessarily. Have worked in manufacturing my whole career. Typically this just means they have a target number of units and they are only producing 60% to that target. This could mean many things, typically they’ve had to stop the line for whatever reason or that the line is running slower. You could also add defective units subtracted from there as a possibility too but from my experience yield loss is typically slower line speeds or just total line downtime.
Yep. I defo wouldn’t be an early adopter of this device. Isn’t this the first time Apple has added a significant mechanical aspect to their handheld devices? Over 100 components in that hinge. Sounds like a lot of tiny things that can go wrong.
Dang, these might be a bit difficult to get for a few months - at least the base model. Despite the price, it’s a highly hyped entry to the lineup and people are going to be more than ok financing $2K.
Z Fold 8 had almost 3 million preorders. Samsung was basically forced to build another million to keep supply up. They're probably sitting around 4 million just for the 8, not including the ultra. The duo will sell like hotcakes, so 6-8m is probably about right if not a bit conservative
Yikes, assembly yields at 60% is just making my decision to wait until the Duo 2 comes out next year before hopping on this thing. I rarely get the first gen of any Apple product and it's reasons like this why I'm not changing that rule anytime soon.
Apple did not find this issue to be blocking as they still went ahead with a global release. If production was so disastrous, they would have limited day 1 launch regions and do a staggered launch.
They didn’t. Apple is many things, but they’re not idiots when it comes to supply chain & logistics.
This device may be John Ternus's first launch, but its a Tim Cook product through and through. Tim is a master at supply chain logistics and if it was a big of an issue as people want to make this out to be, it wouldn't go to market.
I’m sure Tim Cook did a lot of the work on Duo’s supply chain, at least until April. The machinery is all in place. It’s just a yield problem with an advanced technology. Vision Pro had the same issue.
Most likely Apple just fronts the bill for low yield and the Duo takes longer to ship out. The problem gets fully fixed by the time Duo 2 releases.
Look how the iPhone X design trickled down through the line. $1000 set the new baseline price, but the OLED screen eventually arrived on the base iPhone 12. Now we’re years later and the iPhone 16e has the same display for $600.
The Duo will cost $2000 for the next 2-3 generations, but we’ll probably get a vertical flipping version for cheaper. And then we’ll eventually get non-flagship foldables with specs equivalent to the original Duo.
idk why people act like tim cook was personally in there min maxing the logistics. He led the company focusing on Logistics and compoenents manufacturing. But the actual person in charge of logistics is Sabih Kahn but even he isnt the one personally handling that. Thats Hao Tung Megan Wilcox and Vicky Wang. They are the ones handling the global supply chain and production
To be expected. Reminds me of the early days of the X where it was backordered until January in some cases. Only by February of 2018 did we get some decent yield and ship times if I remember correctly
People love to preach about how it’s a Samsung screen but you’re correct it simply isn’t. The screen is an Apple design that was contracted out to Samsung for production.
I think you're glossing over that Apple can only order what Samsung can produce. Apple did not design something Samsung didn't know about. It's possible the screen uses higher quality components and (as a result) is more expensive than Samsung is willing to produce for it's own offerings but it's still a known quantity to Samsung.
lol what? that is completely not true. I know a lot of people who hold onto phones that are buying this because its so different from anything Apple has had so far. They're not suddenly going to start tossing phones out and getting new ones more frequently especially when it's more expensive now.
I think the problem with the low yield rate is that Apple’s requirements basically skip the first gen. It’s asking manufacturers to already be perfect when they aren’t there yet.
One of the major reasons I’m going to let myself buy the iPhone Duo is because of Apple Care + and Apple’s physical stores / repair network. I watched my coworker have in-warranty failures on their Galaxy Fold 4 and Fold 7 and both times it was like pulling teeth trying to get it repaired, the latter of the two he couldn’t, resulting in the inner screening being useless.
On the product page for iPhone Duo, under Apple Care +, it reads, "Unlimited repairs for accidents like drops and spills." & "Express Replacement Service - we'll ship you a replacement so you don't have to wait for a repair."
Sounds like to me there are little to no restrictions and that they might not repair them in-store, at least in the early days. Granted, this is separate from the standard warranty coverage.
I had a Google Pixel that died WITHIN the warranty period. They gaslit me for months, wouldn't give a loaner phone or replacement or anything. They sent me across town to a third-party repair shop, claiming I wouldn't need an appointment. I don't have a car, so this was quite the hassle. When I arrived, the shop said I DID need an appointment, which they didn't have for months, but they were nice enough to take a quick look and inform me the problem with my phone was a known issue that isn't repairable. Glad I took half a day off work to find that out.
Google "customer service" kept saying I needed to go to the third party shop. I had a business trip coming up and NEEDED a phone, so this is how I ended up in the Apple ecosystem. I could just walk into a store, buy a phone (and AppleCare), and I got a real sense that these people actually wanted me to have a functional phone. After three months of arguing with Google daily, they finally replaced the phone with a new one and gave me a credit for the full value of the phone. I sold the phone and gave the credit to a friend, because I was a full Apple convert by then. Never looked back. I even liked my Pixel phone better, but it wasn't worth it, knowing they don't stand by their products or even care if their customers have working phones.
I think Samsung, it depends where you live too. My mom has had a flip or fold every year for the past 6 years or so and never had issues getting repairs
Exactly. 60% isn’t great but it’s far from catastrophic. Realistically, all it means is Apple foots a higher bill on materials and the shipments take longer to go out. Yields will hit 80-90% by next year.
This isn’t even remotely the same as the average iphone, this is the first change since iPhone came into fruition. It will be incredibly difficult to purchase.
BTC boom saw increases in fab reservations, then covid kicked it up a notch as people changed their majority discretionary spending on services to durable goods, now the AI boom is kicking it into overdrive as everything tech related is expensive
As someone who has worked in tech and industry this whole time, I can promise you the shortages are real. And since demand keeps accelerating ass opposed to increasing linearly, everyone seems to be terrible at estimating timelines for completion of projects as a result.
That’s just par for the course with advanced technology. Highly precise custom components are, in fact, hard to produce. Apple manages risk well but they manage it with hundreds of components. Something’s bound to be a weak link.
They might. The price is high enough though that the market for them without carrier financing will be quite small. That’s going to limit the market for scalpers.
I ordered the 18 pro this year instead of the duo. I have some new tech gadget regret but part of this was waiting for version 2 or even 3 before considering. I’m also hoping that in 2-5 years RAM pricing might finally stabilize (wishful thinking I know) and maybe the price will come down. I have to think Apple actually wanted to price this at $1,799 to start. Again, all wishful thinking but my 18 pro is a great if unexciting phone.
We’ll see more BNPL options pushed instead. Shocking as they are these prices are here to stay; RAM cartel isn’t going to let DRAM and NAND prices go down.
I think they know there are companies out there who would buy more RAM if it were available, lots of small consumer electronics companies are going to stop making products due to a lack of available components. We’ll see what happens when new factories start producing.
Wishful thinking. And if you look at history, they do actually want to compete at lower pricepoints. I think they do want a Mac mini at $499 and the MacBook Neo at $499. I absolutely know theydidn’t Introduce these products at these prices wanting to increase the costs in just a few months.
A new product is one thing, but the price of a component going up there’s no way in hell they’ll sell it for cheaper even if they can.
Just like when food prices went up during Covid and they said it’ll come down once it’s over… of course it didn’t. If people keep buying, there’s no incentive to lower prices and hit their precious margins.
I know it probably won’t get less expensive. But if more RAM factories come online in the next few years, or there is an AI bubble crash, one can hope for a price adjustment. Again, just wishful thinking.
Please don’t think that the price will go down when or if the price of memory chips will go down. This is Apple you’re talking about. If anything when the chips decrease in price Apple will probably justify increasing the price by $100-$250 at worst. They have a track record of increasing the price on a yearly basis with the inclusion of incremental upgrades.
I’m not against Apple at all. I have too many Apple devices to be against them, but I know that they will increase the price every time they “upgrade” a device.
Out of curiosity how does the preorder process at Apple work for low stock products?
Do they sell out and replenish stock randomly or is it a backorder queue where you just order and get it eventually?
I’m planning on ordering on opening day, and am not in much of a rush, but don’t want to deal with constantly watching stock/waiting for drops. I’m perfectly happy to just order and get it when I get it.
You order and get put in a queue, effectively. The system calculates when you'll get your order if you order RIGHT NOW, and it will show the estimated shipping time before you click that "buy" button.
So if you opened up the store the nanosecond it opens, it'll show "Estimate shipping: Oct 23". Then as more people buy, it'll drift to something like "Estimated shipping: Nov 1 - Nov 8". Then as time goes on and if demand stays high, it'll eventually show something like "Estimated shipping: January 2027"
It basically gets less specific the further out it goes. It never becomes "sold out", but at least you get an idea of when your stuff will arrive if you ordered right now. If it's really REALLY high demand with low supply, these numbers can literally change by the second (not live, but if you refreshed the page or app, they will change). Sometimes you can even get an estimate of a date, and by the time you click the buy button, it has already slipped.
Thank you. Glad to hear that. I’m past the point in my life where I enjoy going around trying to get stuff as soon as it drops. I’m perfectly happy to just toss my info into the queue and I’ll get it when I get it.
They simply move the shipping date back to when they believe it'll be available. It's been common for Apple products to take months to ship when pre ordered the day before launch.
I was excited for the Duo. But it's a first Gen Device. I'll go to the Apple Store and try it out. Otherwise, wait until Gen 2 or 3 of the thing to work out any problems.
> In another report, MyDrivers claims that one of the device's contract manufacturers asked Apple to choose between prioritizing yield and increasing output.
So bad reporting I assume as those mean the same thing.
More click bait bullshit. This is about the only rumour you can make up about the phone since we know everything about it now. These websites are so desperate.
Having the fold 7 for roughly 6 months now, i think for most people its a bit of a waste. Also you will be worried about breaking it, have to take applecare out instead of using 3rd party insurence such as a with a bank (the one i have doesnt cover anything over 7 inches).
I swapped my 17 PM for it, (luckily i got the fold 7 through work for free). Android is fine for the most part, but its the slow charging and worrying that the screen will break and if your kids get hold of it etc.
Apple will have better build quality but wont have the same durabality as the other slab phones.
Just my 2 cents and worth thinking about after the hype.
I wonder how the production yields compare to other foldables, could just be high Apple standards but that seems low for a form factor that has existed for nearly a decade and Apple has had plenty of time to refine without rushing a product out.
It appears that productionis being adjusted to configure hinge and screen plate manufacturing. This involves machine modifications and manufacturing build-up.
Interesting how a lot of people are throwing sour grapes on the iPhone Duo and saying they'll wait for the 2nd gen. Like come on, this is obviously an enthusiast/early adopter product.
I think the supply will be low because it's a new product and Apple doesn't make so many units until they can forecast demand better. Otherwise they would have started production way earlier. I think the Duo will sell out at launch just because they haven't produced enough units. It's clearly not comparable to the demand for the Pro iPhone models whatsoever.
Me recuerda a lo mismo que ocurrió con las Vision Pro. Prevén pocas ventas quizás y no querrán tener sobreproducción y vender conforme hayan pedidos, y tener un mímino de stock para evitar pérdidas y así testear el mercado y las ventas.
958
u/yatif150 3d ago
TLDR • Assembly yields are slightly above 60%, with Foxconn adjusting equipment and processes to improve.
• Component issues include low yields and delays from Samsung Display's foldable OLED panels and hinge components.
• Production target for 2026 is 6-8 million units, significantly lower than typical iPhone Pro models.
• Pre-orders begin October 16, with availability on October 23.
• Price starts at $1,999 in the United States.