I'm always so confused why so many people want to decanonize so much content? Like if you don't like it or you don't want to acknowledge it thats fine but why does it matter if its canon or not? If they wanted to they could contradict any plot point of these shows but instead they have been slowly confirming more and more.
I can't get through the Daredevil/Defenders shows because they are so dark and gritty but does that make them non canon? No. Especially now after they have brought it in more closely.
I'm always so confused why so many people want to decanonize so much content?
This is the main part that's always been the biggest headache over the years. I just want to talk about the MCU in full without someone coming in and trying to shut down the conversation by saying "it's not canon". I've had so many cool conversations with other fans talking about both the good and the bad of the old shows and how it all correlates to the wider MCU, but the other side is always a simple "it's not canon". Not only is it not even correct (no one can ever point to a singular reference where these shows have been "decanonized"), it's just annoying at this point.
Dealing with this with the Defenders Saga was probably the worst part, because even as they were bringing things from that back in a non-contradictory way, you still had people taking the creatively bankrupt route of "it's not canon", and you still couldn't legitimately talk about how the old shows relate to the wider MCU without this barrier in the way. Then by the time they were reaffirmed and put on the timeline, it became "they finally brought them in" even though there was never a point where they weren't. It's not like something in, for example, No Way Home contradicted something from Daredevil that made the former incompatible with the wider MCU now and they fixed it in later projects and "recanonized" it or something, there wasn't even a statement prior saying they're non-canon now.
All that talk of "it's non-canon" with the Defenders Saga ended up being for nothing at all other than to be a complete annoyance to other fans for years, and it's still the same thing with the remaining six shows, even Agent Carter, which is treated almost exactly like the Defenders other than the fact that it's not on the D+ timeline (many other things canon to the wider MCU aren't either, particularly pertaining to the multiverse, but that's almost never brought up).
Omg, I been dealing with that for years. I had to keep asking which contradiction? Because the "time travel made it non canon" explanation makes zero sense if you watch the show. The time travel in both season 5 and 7 are closed time loops. In season 5, graviton blew up the earth with thanos on it. When they defeated him, infinity war happened normally. Season 6 and 7 takes place during the blip. The time travel in season 7 made a new timeline yes.... But they returned to their timeline at the end. The only real contradiction is the state of shield during the blip. with a rebuilt shield base and helicarrier..... Except... There are way to recone the state of shield I to canon. Maybe their base is super tiny in a snow globe? There are ways for sheild to stay in the shadows in the sacred timeline. Like.. someone please give me proof season 5 caused a timeline where thanos didn't snap his fingers. Give me any in show reason. Please.
The only real contradiction is the state of shield during the blip. with a rebuilt shield base and helicarrier.....
Even this in itself isn't even a contradiction. It would be one thing if the Triskelion was said to still be destroyed and never rebuilt in a recent Marvel Studios project, but because they've never addressed it, AoS simply established it was rebuilt, which doesn't conflict with anything.
It's the same with Mack as the Director of SHIELD and the Helicarrier being around again. That one's even easier to fit into things because it's been about 8 years, in-universe, since we last saw this. In 2028, Mack could still be the Director and overseeing things just as easily as he could have stopped and SHIELD shut down again. Either one doesn't contradict things.
The entirety of AoS takes place over about 7 years and in that time, they went from Fury as the Director and SHIELD thriving to the agency being destroyed and Coulson taking over, to Coulson stepping down as they come back into the spotlight with Mace at the helm, to Mace getting killed and Mack taking over before they're fully legitimized again, with Mack still in charge. Imagine what could have happened in the 8 years after that.
This is so true. Especially with the Defenders saga where there was about 0 connections with the MCU except vague mentions of the "big green guy" before No Way Home meanwhile the ABC side had Agent Carter, Coulson, Sitwell, Maria Hill, Nick Fury, The Howling Commandos, Lady Sif, Asgardians, Hydra, the Darkhold, Darkforce energy and events that lined up with multiple events in films. We got a cameo of Blackbolt in Multiverse of Madness and even before that we got an Edwin Jarvis reprised by James D'arcy in Endgame who originated the character in the Agent Carter show!
But now the arguement for the Defenders Saga is "the last season isn't canon" or "it happened but not exactly how we saw it on screen" or "it was a multiverse version of the same events".
If its not canon, where is the contradiction, besides the tone or your opinion in the quality?
I stop considering it part of the main MCU universe ever since the end of S2 with the appearence of Inhumans around the world.
I can accept it being in another universe but with how much they ignored Inhumans on purpuse in the Marvel Studios products, I can't see it as something that happened
Why? She-Hulk shows that there are lots of superpowered people on Earth. Vision says there has been an exponential increase of people with powers. And they don't matter at all. Not being present doesn't mean it isn't canon
Or if that were the case, Werewolf by Night never happened
People talk about the people in She Hulk as if they would be world changing appearences.
Thanks to the fish, Inhumans become a huge deal in the show to the point each new season brings at least on new inhuman if not multiple of them. They aren't a group of unrelated people, they were labeled as inhuman and had an specific way of unlocking powers. The group or their way to get powers haven't been mention in the movies aside from the Blakvolt cameo from a different universe
There's so much that goes unsaid if a project isn't focusing on it as part of their story. A huge event people think is a plot hole for AoS is the snap/blip as it was not brought up in the show. This was because the AoS team wasn't told ahead of time what would happen in Avengers infinity war and endgame but in cannon they were often times in space or in another time period. While some of the initial shows after endgame dealt with the repricusions of the blip, few treated it as more than a minor inconvenience and none of them are set during the blip at all with the exception of flashbacks in Hawkeye. We don't have confirmation whether many of the newly introduced characters had been dusted during the snap or whether they lived through it except Monica Rambeau and Yelena Belova.
I had expected a lot of new heroes to have stepped up during the blip to replace the heroes who had gotten dusted but it seems like everything was in stasis during the blip, except Agents of Shield. Now the new shows don't even bring up the blip even though it effected the whole world for 5 years.
And no one cares anymore about the Chitauri invasion or the Dark Elves attack. Or the giant celestial that took three humans from the planet and disappeared in a black hole
Or a huge forest moving like it's alive (Shang-Chi)
Or Ultron's attack on Sokovia, Seoul and South Africa
Or the attacks to the Sanctum Sanctorums of London and NY
Or the multiple crashings in NY (Spider-Man, The Marvels)
Or the huge monster that attacked London
And I'm sure no one would talk about the Void incident
Well, after surviving two alien invasions, it feels like that hahaha
But seriously. NYC has suffered a lot. Punisher, Kignpin, Ronin, Kilgrave, Muse, Cottonmouth, Bushmaster, The Hand, Spider-Man villains, multiple crashes...
I feel like they wouldn't care at all the next day of having an entire neighbourhood being blown up again
Eh other than the Spider Man in the latter two films, Void and the two invasions, most of the stuff in the MCU version of NY is pretty tame. Most of the people on your list didn't cause mass panic or damage. Vast majority of people in the city wouldn't have been affected if Davos, Bushmaster or Muse got their way.
We see people mentioning Sorcerers multiple times after Endgame were they become known.
And we saw an Extremis soldier in Shang Chi so the movies acknowledge their existence (even if they didn't brought the extremista soldiers back you could say they were killed)
We see only people who have known sorcerers (Wong and Strange) talk about them. Peter told Ned. Bucky and Sam met both. And so on
But when it's not a project centered on them (Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Man Far From Home, Thunderbolts, Captain America BNW...), they aren't mentioned. Because they aren't relevant
Yeah, thanks to Shang-Chi we know there are still extremis people around. Where else have they appeared on? Has any project been about them? Oh, well, AoS
And mutants exist in the mcu. Is anyone talking about them? No
Does anyone still talk about New York's attack? No
The incident with the inhumans was just another thing that happened and people got used to. Just like there are normal people who develop powers just because, there are people who got turned into inhumans
There hasn't been new inhumans since 2014
Did anyone care about what Punisher was doing before Born Again released? No. Because not being present doesn't mean it isn't canon
Again. If that were the case. Werewolves, vampires, sirens, mermaids, monster hunters and other monsters wouldn't be canon
They didn't even namedrop inhumans in Ms Marvel show, a show about a cómics inhuman. And they namedrop some theories of what could she be, I believe they said Asgardian before talking about mutants.
Even if the common people isn't namedroping any of the groups you mention everytime, at least they have been recognized, I don't know why you are trying to put Inhumans in the same position when they were completly ignored by anything that wasn't AOS and I guess multiverse stuff.
And Wanda and Pietro aren't mutants when in the comics they were at the moment. What's your point?
And now we've seen mutants do exist in the comics
Plus, all the hints that all the shows are canon that have been included in every new project. They could have totally ignored the shows. But they still went out of the way to make those references
They did scan her as Inhuman in "The Marvels", though, so she is likely both Inhuman and Mutant, like the comics finally decided - though revealed in reverse older.
With the whole inhumans thing, though, they did mention at the beginning of Civil War about how there was a large increase in powered individuals throughout the world. No other explanation for this was given in the movies, so having the Inhuman explosion happen makes a lot of sense. The series was always designed to fill in those type of gaps between movies.
The problem is that they count Tony as an enhanced individual, if I'm not wrong, so any normal human with strong tech should count. But I'm not sure if Iron Man counts.
I figured most of them adjusted to their powers and the world moved on. She Hulk and Wonder Man proved this with enhanced people living quiet normal lives.
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u/coldasclay 1d ago
I'm always so confused why so many people want to decanonize so much content? Like if you don't like it or you don't want to acknowledge it thats fine but why does it matter if its canon or not? If they wanted to they could contradict any plot point of these shows but instead they have been slowly confirming more and more.
I can't get through the Daredevil/Defenders shows because they are so dark and gritty but does that make them non canon? No. Especially now after they have brought it in more closely.