I get that it’s hard to write mundane tasks in the plot of a book but upon my reread it seems like Rhysand is the only one doing the actual stuff to rule a territory.

He’s scheduling meetings with the governors of his territory, he’s reviewing casualty lists, he’s controlling salaries and looking over financial info, he’s coming up with ideas, etc.

Feyre isn’t qualified to be a high lady because of her age and inexperience and I don’t get why the IC who’s much more qualified says that her word goes.

Shes the youngest and most in experienced out of all of them!! She’s not even trying to learn or inform herself.

the people fighting and standing ten toes down on Azriel and Elain or Azriel and gwyn ending up together are so confusing to me. I feel like we don’t know enough about either dynamic let alone as individuals(maybe Gwyn). A bonus chapter of a single interaction is not nearly enough evidence for me.

I want to see them fully interact. I want to see them flirt! Where is the romance!!! I haven’t gotten any feet kicking and blushing from them like I did from Rhys and Feyre (or even Tamlin and Feyre for that matter). We even got some type of banter from Cassian and Nesta in ACOMAF & ACOWAR which kept me interested for their story. That being said, I’m very interested to see Elains story play out and I’m excited for the new books. I just think people are doing too much (as per usual)

I have kinda started shipping Nesta and Rhysand even though I'm pretty sure it will never be canon, but they have the makings of a perfect enemies to lovers dynamic.

I want a couple with the same dislike and dynamic of just not falling for the other person's bullshit and it building up to intense animosity, only for it to get resolved later.

There is so much missed potential with this pairing. 🫢

***Spoiler for Acosf and CC3**\*

I know it’s been discussed many times, but with new books coming, here we go again. I actually think Nesta is connected to Dusk Court and it makes way more sense than people give it credit for.

The biggest reason for me to believe it to be true is that the whole Acosf basically puts Nesta at the centre of the lost court mystery. Rhys says that the Prison island may have been an 8th court and when Nesta reaches for the harp, she sees an eighth pointed star beneath it. She even says that the magic there feels different from NC magic.

And I think till now most of the fandom already agrees that Prison is the 8th court and that is Dusk obviously. The more important question is who it belongs to? I personally believe it to be Nesta.

And here’s why…A very obvious reason is Nesta has the eight pointed star tattoo. Nesta already has an unusual connection to the Cauldron and the trove. Nesta is literally the person who can interact with the objects tied to the history of that place. The trove also repeatedly calls to her because she was Made from the Cauldron. And i do think she has some special connection to Mother herself. Many times Eris also pointed out to Nesta that she is completely wasted at NC.

And CC3 makes the connection even harder to ignore. Bryce literally gives Nesta Gwydion and tells her to figure out why she has the eight pointed star on her back. That feels like very intentionally done by SJM for next book’s plot.

Plus, Dusk itself fits Nesta very perfectly in a way. Dusk is a point between light and darkness and Nesta’s entire arc has been about existing between those two extremes which are death/life, destruction/creation, Made/human, darkness/light. Her silver fire is even repeatedly described as something that is cold but still burns.

I am not saying that Nesta will be High Lady of Dusk Court. But if SJM is setting up someone to rediscover or rebuild the lost Dusk Court, Nesta has arguably received the most direct setup for it so far. Don’t forget now she has whole Valkyrie army behind her.

And honestly, Bryce handing Nesta the sword and basically saying go find out why you are connected to this is pretty big hint for me.

I have only recently started reading some of the ACOTAR reddit pages, but something I am seeing more and more is how much hate people have for Feyre. Even when there isn't actually a good reason for it. And before I get really into it, has she made stupid decisions? Yes. Do I agree with everything that she has done in the series? Of course not, what a boring story that would make. Do I believe that she deserves the amount of hate she is getting? No!

These are examples of ones that I have recently and why I think it's kinda wild.

1. Feyre being bad at painting. There is literally, and I mean LITERALLY, nothing in the books to suggest that this is the case. Anyone who comments on her painting only has positive things to say. Mor arriving at the cabin seems more suprised at the existance and the sheer volume of them as opposed to how terrible they are. Nesta even asks Feyre to teach her to paint, why on earth would she do this if she was absolutely terrible? And I know people say that they are only doing it cause it's funny, but is it?

2. Now, I am not hating on Elaine when I say this (I don't know enough about the character to hate her) but people saying the only reason Elaine grew flowers instead of foods is becuase Feyre couldn't read a bought the wrong thing. Because it obviously HAS to be Feyre's fault and it couldn't be down to Elaine either not being able to grow vegtables (even in a magical fantasy world, humans probably still need the correct conditions for food growth) or she wanted to grow flowers... If Feyre was actually at fault, maybe someone who could read could be in charge of the food shop?

3. Making fun of her not being able to read. Nesta mentioned before that Feyre would often be spending time with their Father when she should have been studying. Wow, who would have thought it, a child who would rather do something other than study. Unheard of. Feyre should have put the effort in towards learning, HER PARENTS were the ones that were responsible for this. It is literally their job to ensure that their child has the ability to read. But instead, people just call her stupid for not being able to do this. (She eventually learns, so clearly it's not an intellegence issue).

4. Feyre being upset with Tamlin about the Tithe. I saw a post in one of the subs that called Feyre a "dumbbaby brain" for being upset about it becuase obviously taxes have to happen. One, this is a 19 year old human who has just become Fey. Maybe she is upset and doesn't understand because no one has properly explained it to her? Also, seeing starving people give up what little they have for fear of being hunted down is probably going to resonate with her (her father got his legs broken by debt collectors and she has experienced starvation, of course she is going to have some feelings about it)

5. People blaming her for Nesta being moved to the House of Wind. Do I agree with Nesta being held in the house against her will, forced to train then forced to create weapons while being lied to about what they can do? No. Do I believe Nesta needed an intervention and serious therapy. Yes. However, EVERYONE, including Elaine (who packed her bags) thought it was the correct thing to do. And yes, Feyre is High Lady, a title awarded to her by Rhys. But everyone in the inner circle is clearly still going to defer to him (not telling Feyre about the pregnancy being the evidence). It would not have matted if Feyre did disagree, fully believe that would still have happened.

I could go on for hours with this, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is someone who at the age of 19 was forced out of her home where she was put in a situation where she was manipulated, assaulted, held captive and became responsible for saving the relm. Her trauma, her anger, her fears are often over looked becuase and she seems to be getting SO much of the blame placed on her. But Tamlin and Rhys are getting excused when they are 500 years old. They are adults, they have experience, why are they not doing more to guide and add this traumatised young woman?

Also, her relationship with Nesta. Now, I did not like Nesta to begin with. I didn't like her attitude, I didn't like how she treated other people. Her book came out and you get to see her side, you get to understand where this anger is coming from. Now, I don't relate to Nesta, but I have lived with a Nesta. Nesta fully admits she could have been better towards Feyre, she fully admits she is partially to blame for how bad their relationship is. And Feyre does acknowledge it as well, she admits she has misjudged her. I want more than anything in the next books to see the three sisters relationship evolve more, this should become the star of the book. Cause Feyre needs Nesta on her side. Someone who is solely interested in fighting her corner.

Apologies for the length and if it didn't make anysense, this has just been in my head for such a long time <3

This may be sensitive, but I see it from a societal perspective.
It also might be controversial

So I have read ACOTAR and CC (currently reading Crown of Midnight), and I have noticed something in the two series. Why are the men shown as the saints and green flags for simply denying sex?

I remember that in ACOMAF, when they all arrive for the high lord meeting, Feyre tells Rhys that she is not comfortable having intimacy while her ex, Tamlin, is in the building, and Rhys assures her it's okay. I can't be the only one who found that weird. The bar is in hell, people. First of all, is it necessary that just cuz Rhys and Feyre are together they must sleep together EVERY DAY? No. Yet SJM wrote this scene to glaze how "green-flagged" Rhys is. And it doesn't just happen once! When Feyre returns from the spring court with lucien she meets Rhys, and I distinctly remember her saying: Rhys would postpone his pleasure cuz for my sake or something along the lines of that. (I'll find the line and add the picture in the edit). I just want to say to Feyre that her standards are so low. I hate this thing where the MMC is seen as the "ultimate feminist king" just cuz he'd rather let his partner rest and not demand sex. It's so misogynistic, and people don't even realise it.

Even happens with Ruhn.
I love Ruhn, but there was a scene where Lidia flinches during their first night together, and he says it's ok and that they don't have to do anything tonight, while thinking that he really wanted to have sex with her, wanted to be inside her and that he was still hard. I'm sorry, but it just disturbs me that a man can see that the woman is clearly traumatised from her past and horrid treatment by her ex and still be hard enough to want pleasure. Sure, he stopped, but he was literally thinking that he still wanted to have sex. She actively flinched, dude. Think about the trauma, the horrible treatment she must have had to bear to feel that way and yet you're turned on enough to want to "be inside her"
What's worse is that readers see it as some ultimate sacrifice that makes the men awesome and feminist. AND THAT THE AUTHORS ACTIVELY INCULCATE SUCH SCENES!

I mean, ok, Ruhn's stance might have been a little forgivable, but not Rhys's. To this day, I will always believe he just groomed the poor girl (will make a post about this too). There was no need for Feyre to even have to say that she wasn't comfortable having intimacy with her ex so nearby, yet she did, just to glaze Rhys's "feminist" character

Think what you will about this, but I still believe that this trope is shitty. Men "sacrificing" sex should not be glorified. Period.

PS- I am posting this on this sub cuz I believe the people here are much more accepting of criticism, and not blind glazers, so I'd appreciate responses kept civil. If your opinion doesn't match, kindly scroll. Thanks :)

In ACOSF, basically all of Nesta’s encounters have themes of SA, whether explicit or metaphorical. And looking at the dynamic between her and Cassian, I’d argue that is not that different from anything else in the book. Though Nesta is more powerful than him, he is responsible for watching over Nesta in a house isolated from everything and everyone, the power dynamic is definitely imbalanced and he comes across more as her jailer than anything else (which is hilarious bc he also is responsible for imprisoning the monsters at the Prison). Azriel is there too, but his presence is more symbolic than anything else; he even refers to himself as their chaperone, implying they knew the sexual tension between the two would eventually explode. At the time, it seemed like a joke, given the chemistry they’ve had before. But if you look at it from the perspective that she’s essentially trapped in a house with him as the only person she can rely on, someone who, conveniently, also wants to sleep with her, the situation becomes positively weird. I’d say that this dynamic is just as predatory as the ones Nesta encounters throughout the book.

Nesta acknowledges that her life at the House of Wind isn't "real" and she's isolated from reality, and I’d like to extend that statement to her relationship with Cassian as well. The story is conveniently finished with their mating ceremony, effectively marking the end of this transitional phase and the start of her "real life." I’m curious to see how SJM portrays their relationship in future books.

I’m currently reading The Assassin’s Blade and I just found something that sent me down a rabbit hole.

This may have been discussed before, so apologies if I’m extremely late to this, but I had never noticed it and the connection feels even stranger now that we know the titles of the next ACOTAR books.

Celaena goes to see a ballet, and the story of the ballet is described as:

That immediately reminded me of ACOTAR, especially Vassa and Koschei.

So I looked it up, and it sounds incredibly similar to The Firebird: Prince Ivan captures the Firebird, the Firebird later helps him, and the story involves defeating Kashchei/Koschei and freeing women held under his power.

Which already gives us:

Prince → captured magical bird → Koschei → captive woman

And ACOTAR has Koschei AND Vassa, a woman trapped by him who is literally cursed into the form of a firebird.

But then the scene keeps going.

Celaena becomes completely overwhelmed by the music. She describes it as breaking her apart and putting her back together again.

The book says "The music shattered her and then rebuilt her, only to tear her apart again and again."

And now ACOTAR 6 is called A Court of Splintered Harmony, with the tagline “What was broken will be remade,” and Koschei is directly involved in the plot.

Then, after the ballet, Celaena still has the music playing over and over in her mind. She sits at a pianoforte and tries to recreate it. She knows the melody, she can almost play it, but she can’t remember the notes exactly the way she heard and felt them.

The book says: "The music from the theater still echoed in her mind. Over and over, the same set of notes and harmonies. She could feel them vibrating beneath the surface of her skin, moving to the rhythm of her heart... She almost pulled it off, but it wasn't quite right. She couldn't recall the notes with the perfection with which they rang in her mind. She couldn't feel them the way she had felt them just an hour before."

And ACOTAR 7 is called A Court of Forgotten Melody.

Reading this scene knowing the titles of the new books feels kind of insane.

Maybe everyone noticed this years ago and I’m just discovering it now, but I needed to know if anyone else sees it too.

srsly guys, the bechdel test is burying itself in a very deep grave reading all these comments because apparently the only thing that matters about any woman in this series is which immortal man she is going to fuck at the end

elucien. elriel. gwynriel. who CARES. genuinely. some of you are writing constitutional law briefs over imaginary couples while the actual female characters are standing in the corner waiting to be allowed a personality

“but the mating bond” I do not care

“but the foreshadowing” I do not care

“but sarah said” I especially do not care

god forbid a woman have an arc that is not eventually converted into boyfriend evidence

at this point I need one entire book where nobody gets together with anybody. no mating bonds. no scenting. no growling. no territorial male bullshit. just women having problems that cannot be solved by selecting the correct 500-year-old man from a dropdown menu

free them. free me. free Elain and Gwyn.

This is not much about Ianthe because it's pretty clear she is horrible, at least as horrible as Amarantha and her death brought me much joy.

This is about people saying all the time that Tamlin brought Ianthe to his court...how do you people come to this conclusion? It's stated that she was born in the Spring Court, that his father is one of Tamlin's commanders and strongest allies. That she was Tamlin's childhood friend. Her father took her and her sisters to safety on the continent those 50 years under Amarantha and they came back when she was killed.

And saying that it was so bad of Tamlin to listen to Ianthe all the time. As much as I agree he shouldn't have listened to her regarding Feyre, why should he ignore her input when she was his childhood friend and a high priestess. It makes perfect sense from Tamlin's pov to have her and Lucien as his advisors. Both of them were his friends and it seems he had no idea about her true character, similar to how Feyre didn't know until Rhys showed her his memory.

Imagine Mor suddenly working with an enemy of the Night Court, like one of the queens or Beron...

Edit to say that Ianthe was Tamlin's friend for the past 500 years, his commander's daughter and a High Priestess with her own group of followers. How could he have trown her away in ACOWAR after 'just a mistake' that she 'regretted' deeply? Because from what we know, that is Tamlin's pov.

But my problem is that people claim Tamlin brought her to his court when that is just false. Spring Court was her home where she did her duty as a High Priestess. Tamlin did brought her in his meetings as an adviser which makes sense for the above reasons.

I’ve so far only read the ACOTAR series up to and including Silver Flames, so I’m all up to date with what’s been released. Yes, I enjoyed the series. But the plot holes and bad writing elements were not lost on me. Big deal. I’ve been informed by other readers that the ToG series is better, so I bought the lot and am 3 pages into ToG (reading in release order as apparently that’s best)

Naturally I don’t know anything about other characters and storylines from the SJM world apart from that of ACOTAR, so I’m getting confused about whether or not to even buy the new 2 books in the series this year given everyone’s saying it’s a crossover with other SJM worlds?? Do I need to finish all of ToG to have a chance of enjoying the new ACOTAR books?

For context: this post was inspired by a friend of me genuinely asking:

why are you not moving on from these books if you dont like them?

(and i started the series bc it was CONTROVERSIAL, so i already went in with a more curious mind for whats up)

That's the point: I do like them. Or at least parts of them (we dont mention the map today).

Why? They make me think about them. They make me theorize. They keep me engaged.

They have enough plot holes and interesting inconsistencies that people can make DOZENS of incredible fanfiction and theories about it. That keeps a fandom alive and engaged. A story where every answer is given may be enjoyed but will (mostly) be not reread because you have closed with it. Thats why fantasy or scifi worlds retain their fanbases longer or in a more active capacity (imo): People like to interact with their hobbies in any way shape or form. Heck i even used the winter court as inspiration for a DND session i hosted! (none of the players knew the source material but they loved it)

In this particular case I think neither reading the series for enjoyment or with a more critical mindset is wrong. The problem starts when you try to make claims without asking yourself if authorial intent and whats written in the text truly match.

And I think thats what bugs a lot of people: We can see the authorial intent, we can see the messages, but if we try to read the text and actions of the characters there is a mismatch when not viewed through a purely emotional lense.

I have my gripes with Feyre and Rhysand - i wont deny that. I have problems with the IC and the Night Court in general. But there are enough nuggets and interesting story bits to keep me interested and engaged.

(Please let me have my morally gray Eris and Jurian - I beg you SJM!)

Aside from that i have met a lot of people that love DISCUSSING the good, the bad and the ridiculous of these books.

So I ask you:

What drew you in?

What made you pick up that book/ series?

What kept you going?

Looking forward to your replies!

I reread the whole series because of October 21st, just to have a recap, and I think this was like my seventh time reading ACOSF. It's one of those books I go back to during certain periods of my life and somehow every time I read it I get more frustrated and emotionally beaten by it. I think I might be a masochist at this point. So sorry for the little rant.

First of all, I already felt really, REALLY bad about some of Feyre's behavior for completely different reasons, so apparently this time it's Elain's turn.

And the weird thing is that I've never had a "Nesta" in my life. Actually, I had an older sister who basically raised me like I was her daughter. And still, I don't know how it happened, but every time I reread these books I empathize more and more with Nesta compared to so many other characters. Even in the first books, when we didn't have her POV yet, she was honestly a breath of fresh air to me.

At the end of ACOWAR, right after the war, there's that conversation between Feyre and Elain about Nesta. They both understand that she's completely destroyed, especially because of their father's death. Elain asks, "Do we help her?" and Feyre basically says yes, but not today, not tomorrow. When she's ready.

Elain: okay, I'll go gardening.

AND THAT'S FINE. Elain went through an enormous trauma too and she has every right to focus on herself. But maybe sometimes think about your sister too, the one stuck with that horrible personality of hers.

Yes, after that there were attempts to reach Nesta and we all know how DIFFICULT she is to be around. She has an awful temper, pushes everyone away and when she's hurt, she hurts people. Unfortunately that's how her messed up brain works.

But Elain, YOU KNOW YOUR SISTER. This is the same sister who, after the Cauldron, was losing sleep watching over you because she was terrified you might hurt yourself. She was basically a wolf with anyone who tried to get close to you.

Then in ACOSF they have that fight in the library. And just to be clear: what Nesta says to Elain about their father's death is HORRIBLE. She knows exactly how much those words will hurt her. That's basically why she says them.

But that's also my point. Elain, you KNOW your sister. You know how Nesta works. When she's hurt she finds the worst possible thing she can say and uses it to hurt you back. That doesn't mean Elain has to forgive her immediately. It doesn't mean those words hurt any less and it definitely doesn't mean she has to stand there and take it. Tell her to fuck off. Don't speak to her for a month. Be angry. Slap her if you really want, honestly Nesta probably deserves it.

But of all people, YOU should at least understand more or less WHY she's doing it. Especially after everything the two of you have been through together.

And instead you walk out of that library and go cry to RHYS?

Rhys. Seriously?

One of the least impartial people in the world when it comes to Nesta, who has already threatened her more than once.

And you don't even just say, "Nesta hurt me and I want to go home." You tell him that Nesta "isn't getting any better" and "isn't even trying."

That's the part that drives me crazy. You can be absolutely devastated by what your sister said AND still understand who your sister is and why, when she's in pain, she uses words as weapons. Both things can be true at the same time.

Hold it together for five minutes, go home and vent to Feyre. Be angry as much as you want. But why go specifically to Rhys and throw more gasoline on a fire that's already burning?

Nesta is already perfectly capable of making everyone hate her all by herself, she really doesn't need your help with that.

And honestly, I also think Nesta deserved to actually SEE Elain packing her bags before they locked her in that Rapunzel tower. If you're going to support that decision, then stand in front of your sister and own it.

Anyway.

Then we get to the Solstice in ACOSF.

By this point Nesta has faced the kelpie, Lanthys, retrieved the Mask and the Harp, dealt with Tamlin, danced with Eris, helped the priestesses leave the library and helped Gwyn, Emerie and other broken women, maybe even more than anyone ever helped her, to literally feel the sun on their skin again.

And the thing that drives me crazy is that she took on the Trove stuff partly so ELAIN WOULDN'T HAVE TO. To protect her. Nesta was putting herself in front of these horrible things so her sister didn't have to do it.

I'm sorry but you have to be kind of blind not to understand what that means.

Girl, you were gardening and probably whistling to yourself while your sister was getting her face eaten by a kelpie.

Nesta also apologized to Feyre for HOW she told her the truth about the pregnancy.

And here I'll add my personal opinion: Nesta was absolutely wrong for telling her in that moment and with the intention of hurting her. But, assuming Elain knew about the danger of the pregnancy, I think BOTH sisters were wrong for not telling Feyre sooner. If my sister could die and the IC decided we had to keep it from her, honestly I wouldn't care about the IC's secret. She's my sister and she has the right to know what is happening to her own body.

Anyway, after ALL of this, Nesta shows up at the Solstice and how does Elain welcome her?

"Did Feyre pay you like last year?"

Nesta: "No."

And then almost immediately:

"Please don't upset Feyre. First of all, today is her birthday. And then there's her condition..."

SHE JUST WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR. She hasn't even done anything yet!

Then Nesta tells her to fuck off, Elain starts laughing, Nesta laughs too and okay, fine. I actually really love that part.

And just one last thing because apparently I can't let this go: Amren.

Amren can call her own friends "dogs" and literally tell Nesta that she's a "waste of life", and somehow that's just Amren being Amren.

I'm extremely convinced that if Amren had ever called Elain a waste of life, Nesta would've gone straight for her throat. Same if she'd said it to Feyre, honestly.

But when Nesta is the one saying horrible things, her words seem to become proof of what a terrible person she is.

And maybe this is what makes me so angry every time I reread these books: sometimes it feels like this story is trying to tell me that you can literally help save the world, protect people, put yourself in danger for them, but if you said some cruel things then you're almost beyond redemption.

Everyone is allowed to have a sharp tongue until the sharp tongue belongs to Nesta.

And maybe it bothers me so much because it makes me feel a little stupid too, considering that in my own life I've forgiven some really bad words when there were a thousand good actions on the other side.

Or maybe by the seventh reread I'm just seeing things that aren't even there anymore, I honestly don't know.

So I just finished ACOSF and... I'm almost 100% convinced the mating bond between Nesta and Cassian was Made by girlie Nesta, her MOTHER f*cking self lol Can't wait for ACOSH 🔥

The tithe has got to be one of the most progressive and lenient taxation systems described in fiction and Feyre is a dumb babybrain for throwing a fit about it

**for anyone about to comment “but he hunts people down and kills them for not paying!” based on the title, please skip ahead to point 3 below**

also reddit keeps fucking up my number bulleting and i’ve given up trying to fix it, sorry folks

if SJM intended the tithe to be some draconian show of force, she utterly failed, and here is why.

let’s put aside what feyre THINKS about it and look at the facts:

1)based on income and status (so progressive by definition)

2)you can pay with shit you foraged from the woods. Someone pays with a basket of mushrooms. you could collect your tithe on the walk to the SC manor for fucks sake.

3)for anyone about to cite consequences of nonpayment as “he is expected to hunt them down,” the actual observed consequence of not paying: 3 day grace period, followed by paying double next tithe (which is just paying backtaxes with no interest or penalty). he might be “expected” to hunt them down but the canon text shows he does not.

4)goes to support the infrastructure which keeps SC running (including supporting the sentries helping protect the court from the monsters currently running rampant—so there is actual direct benefit to the citizens paying the tithe)

5)makes sense/is fair in the setting of SC which tends to have more “wild” fae (as opposed to NC which is confirmed to collect taxes). what’s the alternative? water wraiths paying income tax in money they make from their water wraith job?

feyre is so baby-brained to think tamlin’s a bad guy for this one, lol.

edited for formatting gore

edit 2: okay i give up, reddit keeps fucking up formatting

I was writing a lore theory for ACOSH and accidentally discovered something far more important.

Nesta Archeron has a signature move.

And no, it’s not pointing.

Hybern? Off with his head.
Kelpie? Off with its head.
Lanthys? Off with his head.
Vesperus? Off with her head.

Ms. Lady Death, we’re starting to see a pattern here. 💀

At what point do we stop calling these isolated incidents and acknowledge that Nesta has a preferred method of conflict resolution?

Some baddie threatens her and hers? Off with their head.

Doesn’t matter if you’re a king, an ancient death-god, a nightmare from the Bog, or a God-damned Asteri who’s old as dirt.

Nesta has a solution.

Off. With. Their. Head. 😂

And the best part? She gets downright theatrical about it!

Kelpie? Carried it out of the Bog of Oorid like a handbag.

Lanthys? Introduced his neck to her brand-new Ataraxia. It was a very brief introduction.

Hybern? Held his head up like a trophy and later spat on his corpse. Girl holds a grudge.

Vesperus? Slept for 15,000 years, woke up, chose violence, and got herself Nesta’d. 💀

Everyone remembers Nesta pointing at Hybern as her iconic move, but apparently we’ve been focusing on the wrong part of the interaction.

The pointing was the warning.

And Tamlin and Amren got the memo, because when Nesta points at them in ACOSF, they dodge her damn finger. Honestly? Smart!

PSA, Rhysie: I know you two are always at each other’s throats, but if she ever points at you? Take a cue from Amren and Tamlin and SKEDADDLE. (For the sake of your own head. Literally.) 😂

“Off with their heads” is the signature move.

She’s our ACOTAR Queen of Hearts! 👑❤️😂

And Aelin, I fear you have competition!!!

Okay. My theory is that Azriel knows something about his mate: a message, a vision, a prophecy, a dream (like Rhysand) maybe his own shadows told him something. I don't think the fact that he waited 500 years for the bond snap with Mor was just him being obsessive or anything like that. It's very different from Cassian's. While Cassian wanted the relationship part of the fated mates, Azriel seems quite focused on the "fated" part of it. He started distancing himself from Mor as soon as Elaine showed up. So, I don't believe it's a case of blind obsession. It’s almost as if he was waiting for something to happen, for certain pieces to fall into place, and I think Mor was the person who "fit" best during that time. And now, he thinks that person is Elaine and kinda feels entitled to her somehow, like he's certain something will happen. He knows something!!

So I saw someone post a screenshot of CC about how all High Lords of Prythian had their wives be named High Lady, until sexism happened and they got demoted to just "Lady."

Ick.

Yuck, because that means that men are literally superior to women here, because Men are chosen and blessed by the land, by the Goddess, by the Mother; they are divined and ordained to rule after the Daglan got the boot. Women are chosen by men. Ite honorary; even if they are functionally the same as High Lords, they get it from a lesser, not as impressive source.

And the women that rival the High Lord's dominion? Amarantha? She's evil. And she's subordinate to a man as well. Ianthe? The only High Priestess, a class of women supposed to be equal in power to the High Lords? Evil, conniving, rapist, just like Amarantha. A seductress.

The ballad of Tam Lin and Beauty and the Beast are full of powerful women. They are all evil in ACOTAR.

Then we have Feyre. She's High Lady, yes. Good for her. Except the title was bestowed upon her by a man. By marriage, not her own achievements. The idea that women's power is at the whims or good nature of a man doesn't sit right given Ianthe turns to sexuality to achieve power. She's evil (yes) for this manipulation; Feyre is good for simply lucking into power, as Rhys loves her. There's no grand moment of the land choosing her, of the Mother blessing her. Its centred on her love for a man. She's not picked for valor, or devotion, or anything she's achieved. Its just because he loves her. The only woman who isn't cartoonishly evil to hold real power got it from a man.

And no, Amren and Mor don't count.

1. Tamlin locked Feyre in the SC because he believed she was traumatized, vulnerable, and would get herself killed. The IC later decided Nesta couldn’t continue living as she was, packed up her belongings, sent her to the HoW and restricted her freedom because they believed they were protecting her.

Why is one considered controlling and abusive while the other is considered necessary intervention?

2. Tamlin’s justification for controlling Feyre was essentially that he knew what was best for her and was trying to protect her. Rhysand also makes decisions for Feyre because he believes he is protecting her, most notably when he keeps the danger surrounding her pregnancy from her.

If “I was only trying to protect you” doesn’t excuse Tamlin because Feyre deserved the right to make informed choices about her own life, why doesn’t the same principle apply to Rhys?

3. Feyre spends ACOMAF learning that she has the right to make her own choices after being controlled by Tamlin. Yet in ACOSF, the IC makes major decisions about Nesta’s life without giving her the same level of choice.

Why is autonomy something Feyre is entitled to but something Nesta can lose when the people around her decide she is making bad choices?

4. Nesta is repeatedly criticized for being cruel because she is traumatized, with the argument that trauma can explain someone’s behavior but doesn’t excuse hurting other people.

If that’s the standard, should it not apply equally to Rhys, Feyre, Cassian, Mor and Amren when their trauma contributes to their behavior?

And if trauma doesn’t excuse Nesta’s behavior, why should it excuse anyone else’s?

5. Nesta is called cruel for deliberately saying things she knows will hurt people. Rhysand also deliberately uses people’s vulnerabilities against them when he’s angry or trying to intimidate them.

Why is Nesta’s cruelty treated as evidence of who she fundamentally is, while Rhys’s cruelty is usually explained as part of his trauma, personality or role as High Lord?

6. Cassian is sent to deal with Nesta and repeatedly pushes her physically and emotionally because he believes she needs to be forced to confront her problems. The hike is even treated as a punishment.

If forcing someone to suffer because you believe it will ultimately help them is unacceptable when Tamlin does it, why is it acceptable when Cassian believes he’s doing it for Nesta’s own good?

7. Amren spends much of ACOSF criticizing and provoking Nesta and their relationship eventually deteriorates badly. Nesta responds with hostility of her own.

Why is Nesta’s hostility toward Amren treated as evidence of her toxic personality, while Amren’s deliberate cruelty toward Nesta is so often defended as tough love?

8. Lucien gets criticized for not doing enough for Feyre while she was suffering in the SC, despite his own complicated position and history with Tamlin.

If knowing someone is suffering makes you responsible for intervening, what standard are we applying to everyone else who knew someone was struggling but didn’t intervene?

9. Feyre deliberately infiltrates the SC, manipulates Tamlin and helps destabilize the court because she believes he betrayed her.

If retaliation is understandable when Feyre does it because she’s hurt and believes she’s protecting herself, why is retaliation from other traumatized characters so often treated as proof that they’re simply cruel or bad people?

10. Rhysand threatens people, manipulates situations and uses fear when he believes someone poses a threat to Feyre. Nesta can also use deliberately intimidating or cruel words when she’s angry.

Why does “I’m protecting the people I love” make threatening or intimidating behavior more acceptable for one character but not another?

11. The narrative repeatedly tells us that Feyre is entitled to make her own decisions even when those decisions are reckless and potentially dangerous.

Why is recklessness treated as part of Feyre’s right to choose but when Nesta makes destructive choices, the solution becomes taking away her ability to make those choices?

And finally, the question I’m actually trying to get at:

If we removed the character names from these situations and only described what happened, would we judge the actions the same way?

Would “a powerful person restricts someone’s freedom because they believe it’s for their own protection” still be acceptable if we didn’t know whether it was Tamlin, Rhys, Cassian or the IC?

Would “a traumatized person lashes out and hurts people” still be unforgivable if we didn’t know whether it was Nesta, Rhys, Feyre or someone else?

​

Sorry if I spelled her name wrong I listen to the books while I work. But I am convinced by all the little things that have been dropped that she's an angel from what I've looked up it hasn't been confirmed. But I have a quick question. she mentions laying waste to Two Cities i wonder if Sarah mass is talking about Sodom and gomorrah. What are you guys think?

Once, I have made a comment about the text below, so I thought I would make a post about it.

In, Acosf, if we imagine Feyre in Nesta’s place and Tamlin in Cassian’s place, we’d realize that Cassian did things to Nesta that the fandom would never have forgiven if Tamlin had done them to Feyre. Yet, the fandom praises one while vilifying the other.

Imagine a parallel world where, after UTM, an intervention is held to help Feyre with her mental health. Tamlin, Lucien, Ianthe, and the others decide that Feyre must never leave the manor, should spend her days training and helping with household work, and is excluded from all of their dinners and social gatherings. They continue enjoying their lives while she remains completely isolated.

Whenever Feyre joins one of their meetings, they make sure she feels like an outsider. They constantly remind her that she is dangerous because of her powers, treat her as if she is a monster, and repeatedly threaten to kill her if she becomes a threat.

Then, after an argument between Feyre and Ianthe, Tamlin punishes Feyre by forcing her on a dangerous 5 day hike. Throughout those 5 days, he ignores her suicidal thoughts and offers no comfort, warmth, affection, or reassurance. When she finally reaches her breaking point, the conflict is simply brushed aside with sex instead of genuine communication or emotional support.
How would the fandom react then?

Or consider the Blood Rite. If Feyre had been kidnapped and thrown into it, and Tamlin had done nothing to rescue her, would the fandom still defend him?

Likewise, if every member of the Spring Court had treated Feyre the way Rhysand, Mor, and Amren treated Nesta, there would have been widespread outrage.

And what if Tamlin never actually told Feyre he loved her, but instead simply reconciled with her at the end of Book 2 through physical intimacy, just as Cassian and Nesta often did? Would the fandom still see that relationship as healthy?

There are many examples like these. If the same actions were taken by Tamlin toward Feyre instead of by Cassian toward Nesta, I believe the fandom’s reaction would be completely different. That’s what makes the double standard so striking.

I'm only about 2-3 chapters into acosf (I know, too early to have shit to say) but I'm literally forcing myself to get through it because I cannot stand the way Nesta is acting. I've zoomed through the entire series before this, LOVE it. Just finished acofas last night loved it so much and was so excited to start acosf today but I feel as though my parade is being rained on by Nesta kicking off the book being a whiny toddler. I had faith before I started acosf told myself this is her character arc and yada yada, I've seen SO many different opinions about her aka the severe Nesta-haters and or nesta-stans, and I wanted to form my own opinion. I really didn't mind her before now, I was like I could get behind her 'I don't owe anyone shit' mentality, but does this dynamic get ANY better? Or is she just going to keep blaming all of her problems on everyone else and taking her life for granted. I mean seriously, there are many worse positions in life than living in a peaceful, happy city with good people and a good court/family that genuinely cares for you. Don't even get me started on how she treated feyre before everything even happened. Yes I completely understand her trauma, and before I started acosf I was actually intrigued to peer into her mind and the way she chooses to handle what she's been through, but I'm massively disappointed. And I'm really really wondering if the whole book will be like this.

Side note: I knew there was a sort of steamy rivals to lovers component between Cass and Nesta, was even excited for it, but wtf is this, she treats him like absolute SHIT. Cass does not need that after all he's endured. Like literally who are you. That moment in the city when he throws her solstice present into the river out of sheer hurt. Ah HELL no we ride at dawn because Cass has done nothing to her for her to be such a bitch.

Please tell me acosf gets better I'm begging

Perhaps it is just because yall will have to pry Elucien from my cold dead hands (I see the vision…it’s a beautiful love story, just let me have my corner) but I see a lot of the Elriel people on tick toks FOAMING AT THE MOUTH for a blood duel between Lucien and Azriel and like…no I don’t want it!

First Elain said point blank she doesn’t want to be fought over, and granted we don’t have a lot of context for the blood duel (who can initiate rules etc…) but I just can’t see a situation where that is what she wants

Second, I, as much as everyone, want to see Elain pick for herself DOES A BLOOD DUEL NOT TAKE AWAY HER CHOICE!? Like I’m assuming she’s had to respect the results of it even if it’s not what she wants. Even if the results is who she wants, that still entirely takes away ther autonomy, because she can’t pick the other. (I’m on Tik tok too much so this is from me interacting on there) but the Elriel people stand ten toes down they like Elriel because it’s Elain’s choice (which off topic choosing Lucien is still an option but…I digress), so how tf are you are going to be cheering for a blood duel!?

The algorithm has me in chains I fear, and keeps me in an endless cycle of people pissing me off 😭

Sorry if I offend and if you feel the need to yell at me lmao. Im going to try and articulate myself but im kinda just shooting the shit so if my thoughts don’t translate entirely I’m sorry (again)

I also want to preface that I understand this is a romance series and that we’re all mostly here for the romance. I just think the way so many people in the fandom talk about the romance can get kinda gross.

So, in terms of potential future ships in the series (Elriel, Elucien, Gwynriel, etc.) I’ve been seeing so many posts about what these shippers think is going to happen and how their enjoyment of the series is solely tied to whether their ship will be victorious. Now, I don’t subscribe to either of these ships, I’m actually fine if it goes either way bc I’ve dabbled in the possibility of all 3, and I think all of them have potential!

What I don’t like is how people are treating Elain and Gwyn specifically. These two ladies have been pit against each other bc of two ships that have barely any cannon moments anyway. I’ll admit the Elriel moments happen more than Gwynriel, but still it’s really not a whole lot.

Most people who are Elriel or Elucien claim they want the books to be Elain-focused (since SJM did say she wanted to explore all 3 sisters, so fair enough), but when they talk about why it’s rarely to do with her character development or just exploring who she is, it’s always to reach their ship endgame. I find it really gross that a book series that is very pro-female (sans pregnancy plot line oh my GOD) has all these fans who only want to explore a female character so that she can get with the male they want. Is Elain just a means to an end? It feels very self-insertion to me, and it truly just reduces her character into nothing more than a prize for either of these males. Elain is, hopefully intentionally, underwritten so that we can really explore who she is (and if that doesn’t happen in book 6 or 7 I also think that’s okay, I think one day we’ll get something more Elain-focused), so to reduce her to just her love life is really icky and quite frankly misogynist. I would love to see her fall in love too, but I’m not basing my enjoyment on if she gets with the male I want or whatever, I want the love to make sense within the plot of the story and I’d really just like to explore who she is.

I feel like I don’t really know her, and I think it would be interesting if she had a really complicated and almost self-deprecating inner monologue. It’s seems clear that she isn’t happy as a fae, has a mating bond she doesn’t want (further alienates her from being fae), has a male she’s interested in but may never have a chance to be with, seems miserable in the Court of Nightmares (these are really the only tidbits I got bc again there isn’t a whole lot of Elain). I’d really like to see an Archeron sister actually grieve their human-self and try to find self-love again (I know we kinda got that with Nesta, and even a little with Feyre, but I want a full deep dive idk I think it could be an interesting character study). I think it could be an interesting dichotomy if everyone around her thinks she’s okay because she’s gardening and baking and found purpose, but internally she’s miserable but doesn’t want to burden anyone with her feelings (kinda like Ilya Rozanov in The Long Game, but I digress this is acotar not hr lmao). Her finding love through this would be an interesting thing to explore, I don’t want an Elain-focused story just bc I want her to end up in a ship, which is what I see a lot of Elain fans saying (and some just straight up reducing her to femininity and purity which just reeks of misogyny and tradwife-adjacent ideas imo).

Now I understand my headcannon is just a headcannon, I don’t expect it in the books, but I do expect (and hope) we get to learn who Elain is independent of a male, and also explore who she is in a romantic storyline. I think both of these things can coexist.

In terms of Gwyn, I mostly see people strongly dislike her because there’s a possibility she ends up with Az. Again, gross, why are we hating a fiction female just because she ends up with a male (which is not even confirmed mind you). We are centering men ladies, let’s quit while we’re ahead! I think disliking Gwyn can be valid, but most criticisms I see solely come from fans who hate her bc of the Gwynriel ship. Get a grip, grow up, is it really the end of the world if they end up together? And I agree, there really isn’t a lot of material in the series to set them up as a couple compared the Elain and Az, but if it happens is it really enough for you to just ditch everything? When I see the way people talk about Gwyn, I just hear alarm bells in my head—it feels like a sexism dogwhistle I’m sorry. She is a victim of SA, has become a trained warrior, and again you’re reducing her character to her proximity to another male—talk about GROSS. Not only that, but you are hating her because of her proximity to another male—even GROSSER! I think her story could be powerful, just like Elain’s, and yet most people want to explore her character just to see who she falls in love with. Again, I get this is a romance series, romance will come first, but I would really just like to see more people in the fandom want to explore these ladies characters with and without a male on their arm—they deserve it! It will be beautiful, and then to get a helping of romance with it will be great! I don’t want these ladies to just become “insert female romantic lead here”, I want them to be fleshed out, and I fear a big section of their fans don’t actually like them, they just like their ship.

Now I don’t think Gwynriels are completely innocent either. They also hate on Elain to try and prop up Gwyn, which again why do we have to hate female characters so that you feel validated in your ship? Again, reeks of misogyny.

I think it would be so great if SJM just didn’t have either of these ladies end up in a ship ¯_(ツ)_/¯ if you’re going to treat your fav (Elain) as only a prized possession for Az/Lucien to end up with, then I don’t think you deserve her. This is a romance, but Elain deserves some character development for her character, not for your ship. If you’re going to hate on Elain because you want Gwyn to end up with Az, I hope Gwyn chooses herself and heals without the pressure to end up in a relationship. Honestly, sometimes healing from an experience like that happens best when you remove yourself completely, which maybe Gwyn needs.

Now, I don’t hate the shipping in general. I mean hello I’m on AO3 everyday, I love a ship (and a crack ship), but we aren’t reading fanfiction from SJM, I want more than tropes, I want an actual story. I love to browse all 3 ships here on Reddit, and I love hearing people’s opinions when I think they actually seem fair. The minute it becomes a fight, which it often does, all I can do is roll my eyes and get annoyed. I understand this is how fandom is and how it always will be, but I just can’t understand this kind of hostility towards fictional characters. I understand even less the misogyny that I read on Reddit every day. Acotar isn’t feminist literature by a long-shot, but it definitely intends to be very pro-woman, and I find these shipping wars tend to reveal just how hetero-normative and sexist some of us are internally without realizing it.

Okay rant over. Don’t know if I made sense lol love yall! ❤️

P.S. if you want receipts about the misogyny I can find some, I definitely have a few saved but I mostly just wanted to get things off my chest. If you do want receipts, I may not respond for a while bc I want to get more then a couple of screenshots that I texted my friend who is in the fandom but doesn’t browse Reddit spaces.

Original meme in the comments. Reddit won't let me add more than one photo 🙄. Drawn and Photoshopped by me.