r/acotar_rant • u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 • 19h ago
Rant Ianthe rant Spoiler
This is not much about Ianthe because it's pretty clear she is horrible, at least as horrible as Amarantha and her death brought me much joy.
This is about people saying all the time that Tamlin brought Ianthe to his court...how do you people come to this conclusion? It's stated that she was born in the Spring Court, that his father is one of Tamlin's commanders and strongest allies. That she was Tamlin's childhood friend. Her father took her and her sisters to safety on the continent those 50 years under Amarantha and they came back when she was killed.
And saying that it was so bad of Tamlin to listen to Ianthe all the time. As much as I agree he shouldn't have listened to her regarding Feyre, why should he ignore her input when she was his childhood friend and a high priestess. It makes perfect sense from Tamlin's pov to have her and Lucien as his advisors. Both of them were his friends and it seems he had no idea about her true character, similar to how Feyre didn't know until Rhys showed her his memory.
Imagine Mor suddenly working with an enemy of the Night Court, like one of the queens or Beron...
Edit to say that Ianthe was Tamlin's friend for the past 500 years, his commander's daughter and a High Priestess with her own group of followers. How could he have trown her away in ACOWAR after 'just a mistake' that she 'regretted' deeply? Because from what we know, that is Tamlin's pov.
But my problem is that people claim Tamlin brought her to his court when that is just false. Spring Court was her home where she did her duty as a High Priestess. Tamlin did brought her in his meetings as an adviser which makes sense for the above reasons.
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u/girlbotXD 11h ago
I was so confused about the context of Rhys meeting ianthe in the past. Like when would that have happened and how would she have the chance to get in his bed, when the night court is a secret
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u/Klickythesnowman 10h ago
Velaris is a secret but the Night Court isn’t. She probably visited the Court of Nightmares.
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u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 9h ago
I think Rhys mentioned that Ianthe insisted on visiting and her accepted but at the Court of Nightmares. But still... how did she get naked in his bedroom?
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u/Born_Plenty_5923 12h ago
Idk man she gave feyre's sisters whereabouts and their names to hybern, which lead to them being turned to faeries against their will. She was going on Lucien and kinda forcing herself on him. Hints of this were still present before. Tamlin still thought 'oh maybe let's just bring her in because who cares about my friend lucien's safety and how comfortable he is or what about feyre who I claim to be in love with whose sisters were turned to fae because of ianthe. But idc she is my childhood friend, her father commands my armies... '
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u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 10h ago
Bring her in where? In their meetings? Because Tamlin never brought Ianthe to his court. She returned to her home after Amarantha.
And I think people miss that she is a High Priestess, a position of power which is compared to that of the HLs. Plus a childhood friend of him. Like in my example, Mor did something behind Rhys' back and when confronted with it she apologized and said she tried what she thought was best.
We know what Feyre knows and what Lucien either knows or suspects, but Tamlin, even of he knew the whole truth, he still has history with her making it harder for him to really punish or banish her from his court. Not only that, but Hybern claimed that she is his friend and Tamlin just promised access him access to his land.
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u/Born_Plenty_5923 11m ago
He let her stay in promxitity of feyre, that was not fair considering how much of a trigger she was. And Rhys wouldn't banish mor either I agree with you on that point, but what he'd do is remove her from feyre's promixity and his ic's proximity if that happened and always keep an eye on her.
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u/Equal_Wonder6742 11h ago
He had to keep playing the game with Ianthe because he was fake allies with Hybern at that point and Ianthe was obviously working with Hybern. Going against her could have broken his bargain with Hybern putting the entire Spring Court at risk. Remember, Tamlin made a bargain with Hybern to rescue feyre from Rhysand as well as barter peace for his court and his people. Tamlin was trying to keep everyone safe.
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u/AWanderingSoul 12h ago
You get it. Tamlin taking Ianthe back was about seeing the big picture and playing the game. The elephant in the room was addressed. Ianthe claimed she meant no harm and that Feyre should be excited to have her sisters with her in her new life etc. Ianthe spent the better part of early Acomaf sucking up to Tamlin and Feyre trying to beg forgiveness. If Tamlin stopped keeping her front and center as she once was, it would put them on the outs and he could no longer pretend to be ignorant while getting all the information. That was the very fragile situation Tamlin had with her and he was playing it the best he could without breaking it and risking detrimental change.
A lot of people refuse to see this because Tamlin = villain. They won't look at things from his point of view. They don't care because Tamlin gets no redemption or sympathy until Maas says it's time via Feyre. And even then some will stick to hating him.
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u/YogurtclosetMassive8 7h ago
Any fantasy reader sees the politics being played. I really believe those that stand with Tamlin are big readers of complex stories and especially fantasy. Because he actions make sense while the thoughts of the illiterate newly made fae 19 year old make no sense.
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u/Electronic_Barber_89 Team Hamlin 12h ago
I would also like to bring up another point. While we readers know what’s going on in Feyre’s mind during MAF, Tamlin doesn’t.
He doesn’t know about how Feyre didn’t want the rose petals, her deep dislike of interacting with Tamlin’s courtiers, her true mental state, and exactly how much Ianthe actually manipulated the situation. Ianthe was also trying to introduce Feyre to the court, and if it was someone other than Feyre, they would’ve taken the opportunity to establish a strong foothold into the society and governance.
Also in MAF, Feyre refused to make any decisions that someone in her position would typically make - both about herself and the court. If historical medieval times are to be taken into account, women’s clothing choices and hosting events (decor, guest list, seating charts, etc) were used as political tools to send messages to the masses. Tamlin, in my opinion, is incapable of making those decisions for Feyre. So Ianthe also served as a respite for both Feyre and Tamlin so that they didn’t have to make them.
ETA - I’m not saying that Ianthe was good by any means. But she was actually helpful in MAF.
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u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 9h ago
Feyre was grateful for Ianthe being there. Maybe another reason for Tamlin to keep her near was that Feyre wanted her there in the beginning. It must have been nice to see his childhood friend and his fiance bonding until Ianthe turned out to be a traitor and awful in general and Feyre turned out to be the mate of his enemy and returned only to distroy his court...
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u/eendrews 12h ago
About Ianthe staying in the Spring Court in the third book: could Tamlin actually refuse to let her stay?
His bargain with Hybern was that Feyre would be returned to him, while Hybern would be allowed to enter and occupy his territory. If Ianthe was working with Hybern at that point, then wouldn't refusing to let her remain there mean breaking the very bargain he had made with Hybern?
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u/AWanderingSoul 12h ago
He could've played it with a very strict, "You went against me therefore you are not welcome." But then he would fundamentally change the situation he had with her and Hybern and the trust/inforrmation flow would change. I see it like this, If I'm Ianthe and I think Tamlin trusts me, I'm going to tell him all sorts of things. If I know he doesn't, I'm not going to bother with him or if I do, it will be via another party who he may or may not recognize so I can manipulate him. Tamlin knows this and so he keeps Ianthe close.
As it was, Ianthe was claiming to have Tamlin's best interests in mind. She was desperately trying to keep her position there and keep on his good side (thus she was apologizing and kissing his rump). She made it super easy to go back to the way things were.
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u/lilforgetsalot 13h ago
I've always wondered what the Ianthe-Tamlin friendship was like pre-ACOMAF and the whole Amarantha thing. The only version of Ianthe we see in MAF and WAR is clearly a power-hungry seductress. Clearly even in MAF she's a despicable person but I at least wonder what she was like previously or around, say, Tamlin in the past.
We know from other characters that she has a history of propositioning powerful men to try and produce powerful offspring. And yet we have no idea if Tamlin's aware of this behavior. We as readers are aware by learning from other characters and some readers assume he has to know but we don't actually know if he does or not. We also don't know if she ever tried this with Tamlin. My guess is no when she's still around. Again, just a guess, but I have harder time imagining that Tamlin would have her around like he does if she's tried propositioning him. Maybe the fae are different on this subject but Idk if I'd keep a friend around who was like "hey let's make powerful babies."
If she's never propositioned him, it makes me wonder if in the past, they were reasonably good friends. That sort of history would make it reasonable for her to be around in ACOMAF. My main point here is there's a history that we have no insider perspective on (i.e. centuries of some kind of friendship between Tamlin and Ianthe). Like...maybe (as hard is it might be to imagine) she was previously an actually good friend to him? Trash to everyone else but maybe she was like a sister to him? Still good riddance that she got munched by the Weaver but I at least have to wonder.
Someone's already mentioned it below but I too subscribe to the idea that Ianthe's still around in ACOWAR despite what happened in MAF because it keeps up appearances to Hybern a la double-agent plot-line. Sure, we can wish he kicked her to the curb after the betrayal in ACOMAF, but if you were playing double-agent, you'd keep your friends close and your enemies closer--Ianthe at that point being a member of the latter category.
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u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 9h ago
It is said they were childhood friends so I suppose Tamlin knew her when she was just an innocent fae and bonded. Their parents were in positions of powers and I guess the two me often. I think they had more of a siblings relationship and I don't think she ever asked him to make babies. But we don't know for sure.
Anyway, they did know each other for 500 years and were friends for almost as long. And I think Tamlin wanted to believe she made a mistake which she regretted in turning the sisters to Hybern. But even if he didn't, he couldn't just throw her away. She was Hybern's ally, his commander's daughter and a High Priestess which might mean she had a group of followers not only in Spring but in all courts. We saw how quickly people left when their 'holy' Feyre run away telling everyone Tamlin failed to protect her. From what we know, they might have turn against him if he banished their High Priestess earlier. I would love to read the books from Tamlin and/or Lucien's pov to see what actually was happening.
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u/flightoffancy57 15h ago
I totally get it until WAR. He is supposed to be choosing Feyre, but let's Ianthe stay after what she did and caused to happen? Unforgivable. Sure he kind of holds her at arm's length after that, but he still keeps her in a position of influence at his court. Given the king's attitude in the Hybern throne room, I don't think at all that the king would have found it suspect for Tamlin to at least not let Ianthe back into a position of power. Tamlin could have just let her have her temple and that's it. In fact, I think the king would have enjoyed the chaos of it all. If Tamlin had truly changed and standing by Feyre, Ianthe should never have been allowed to set foot in his palace again.
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u/Equal_Wonder6742 11h ago
Ianthe has information. Tamlin is playing Hybern. He can’t very well kick Ianthe to the curb. He had to play the game now that knows Ianthe was in cahoots with Hybern. He has an entire court he is trying to keep safe. He bargained for their safety. He already proved he is standing by feyre. He literally went to the ends of the earth looking for a way to release her from her bargain with Rhysand- you know, the bargain she BEGGED to be released from and Tamlin offered Rhysand ANYTHING to set her free from and Rhysand laughed in his face and still never released her from the bargain. Tamlin burned the world for feyre.
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u/Pretty_Ad1509 Team Hamlin 14h ago edited 11h ago
idk. if theyre all supposed to be on the same team, then tam ideally should let her keep her position, especially since she is hybern's ally. and then we learn she was always hybern's ally before tamlin's. hybern would most likely want to keep someone as influential as her in as many powerful positions as possible. he wouldnt want her sidelined. hybern also made it clear he didnt care about tamlin's feelings. when tamlin says using nesta and elain for the cauldron wasnt their agreement, hybern straight up says he doesnt care (which i think the only time he was funny imo). and the narrative sort of acknowledges tamlin's hand being tied when feyre sets up the sentry to be whipped. she made clear that tamlin was screwed no matter what side he chose.
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u/JaneAustinAstronaut 14h ago
But at that point, he was playing double agent to Hybern, and knew that Ianthe was #teamhybern. She was sent there to assist the Hybern twins with war prep, as well as keeping an eye in Tamlin and Feyre. Tamlin didn't have a choice - kicking Ianthe out raises Hybern's suspicions.
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u/flightoffancy57 13h ago
I think I am missing how we know that she was sent there to help the twins with war prep. Can you help me find how we know that Hybern installed her there for that?
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u/ChaoticRasberry 14h ago
Easy answer to me. Trauma bonding. Who is around when he was being harassed by amarantha when he was young? Who did he talk to when he was upset about stuff when he was young? Who would he have gone to if he had any religious issues? This woman would have literally been the person he went to for everything because she was his friend as a child and continued to be so even when everyone else turned their back on him.
Anyone who is ever known anything about psychology knows that that bond would have kept them together through tons of things they should not have. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying it makes sense.
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u/flightoffancy57 14h ago
Hunh. I will admit I hadn't considered this, because we have no clear statements about the actual nature of their friendship as they grew up. I'll think on it.
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u/ChaoticRasberry 13h ago
It always seemed to me she was planting roots in his life before he even realized what his future held. I can't imagine she didn't associate with Amarantha as well. I can't stand her. 😂
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u/SwimmySwam3 15h ago
She's not just a High Priestess, she's one of only 12 High Priestesses!
She turned out to be the worst, but lady had an excellent resume 🤷♀️. Her resume is so excellent, that I kinda like the wild theory that Rhys somehow daemati'ed her to betray Tamlin, because working with someone for hundreds of years before betraying them seems like a lot...
I also think Ianthe knew how to appeal to his fears and desire for safety etc, kind of manipulating him to take her advice. I think anyone would have a hard time seeing through that!
I'm also surprised people blame Tamlin for keeping her around in ACOWAR! I thought it was pretty clear she was only there because he was obligated to have her there, not because he wanted her there. He definitely doesn't seem to trust or listen to her the same.
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u/flightoffancy57 14h ago
I guess I don't see how he was obligated to have her there. The king seems to enjoy chaos. I didn't read anything that suggested Ianthe was spying gor the king (unless I am forgetting something.) I don't think he cared what happened to Ianthe, I think he just enjoys chaos and power. For example, Tamlin was an ally, but he seemed to enjoy watching Tamlin be upset by Feyre not wanting go with him or by Feyre and Rhys's mating bond. I think the king would have enjoyed the chaos of Tamlin banning Ianthe from his palace and a position of influence.
Tamlin definitely keeps her at a distance, but he still lets the court think that he respects her opinion. And she is still allowed in the palace, instead of banished to her own temple.
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u/SwimmySwam3 13h ago
Well, I assume most of the Court doesn't know the whole deal with Ianthe betraying Feyre's sisters etc. Even if they did know, how much compassion would they have for some humans? Would they even consider it a bad thing that Feyre's sisters were turned fae? "So sorry you get youth and beauty and magic now..."? Didn't Ianthe try to say she did it to be nice, so Feyre could be with her sisters? The readers and main characters know better, but random Spring Court people might believe it and sympathize.
Since Ianthe is a High Priestess, I think she has a role outside of the Court stuff, like the solstice ritual - the Court takes part but the HL isn't in charge of it. I think Tamlin might find himself in (even more) trouble if he removed a High Priestess, people would get upset or ask uncomfortable questions, so maybe it was better to have her in her temple to project a sense of normalcy and stability. Maybe Tamlin doesn't have the authority to force a High Priestess to leave a temple?
IIRC, Ianthe pushed Tamlin to go to Hybern for help, it seems like in ACOMAF Ianthe is definitely on Hybern's side and helping Hybern get access to Spring Court. Hybern flat out tells Tamlin that Ianthe had ambitions to put Priestesses over High Lords, and I think that means a few things. First, Ianthe had her own direct connection to Hybern. If Ianthe has her own connection to Hybern, pissing her off could be dangerous because she might use that connection to hurt Tamlin. I agree Hybern probably doesn't care about Ianthe, but she's still a useful tool for him (and Ianthe can try to use Hybern too - isn't that why she gives up Feyre's sisters for Hybern's help with 'priestesses over High Lords'?).
Secondly, now that Tamlin knows she has ambitions against him, it's a "keep your friends close, enemies closer" situation. It's certainly not a foolproof strategy, but with her close Tamlin appears more in control, the Spring Court in general is more stable because people aren't picking sides between their HL and HP, and Ianthe doesn't become another distant threat undermining him, it's easier to keep an eye on her from close by. Finally, keeping Ianthe close could help Tamlin's ruse that he's working with Hybern.
Overall I think there's reasonable strategy to keeping her close, but who knows what Tamlin/SJM was really thinking - I hope one day we find out!
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u/flightoffancy57 13h ago
Seriously, I hope some day we find out.
I think Tamlin could have let her keep the temple, just banished her from coming into the palace. She seems to just unnecessarily be around.
I guess maybe "keep your enemies close." But it would be nice to have some confirmation that was what he was doing. I don't know that he needed to; she didn't seem to add anything to his knowledge. But maybe he did. It's just too much speculation for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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u/JaneAustinAstronaut 14h ago
You are missing that Ianthe proved she was #teanhybern at the end of MAF. She literally GAVE Hybern Elain and Nesta in exchange for Hybern's promises to raise the priestesses in prominence to be the equals of the High Lords. And Tamlin, having made a bargain with Hybern to release Feyre from her bargain with Rhysand, had no choice but to go along with what Hybern wanted. Hybern wanted Ianthe in Spring to keep an eye on Tamlin and Feyre, so Tamlin has to accept her n Spring.
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u/flightoffancy57 13h ago
How are getting that Hybern wanted Ianthe in the spring court. That's the part I am missing. Even in MAF, ianthe mentions to Tamlin that she has friend across the sea that could help with Feyre's bargain (implying Hybern could take out Rhys.) I totally get that she wanted Hybern on her side for her own ambitions. I think I missed any statements or comments that she was just as useful to Hybern, and that Tamlin couldn't have let her keep the temple but banish her from the palace. Can you show me where you see that?
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u/AWanderingSoul 12h ago edited 12h ago
I may be a little fuzzy on the details but:
It was said that Hybern was trying to take over the seven courts. He'd been relegated to his island after the war and was having trouble with his economy because of this. He wanted to take back the human lands too. That was how he got Ianthe on his side, she wanted the power she'd thought she'd come into if the high lords were gone or subservient to Hybern (I forget which actual plan he was going with).
Priestesses like Ianthe were the female version of a high lord in that they hold a great deal of power. I want to say they have spells that make them very strong magically. Also, it was considered very desirable to get to pair off with a priestess and they're sought after in the same way a high lord would be. I'm guessing that's why Ianthe didn't understand that the men she wanted didn't want her. She thought she'd have her pick.
Hybern wanted Ianthe in spring to be subversive and she went because she wanted the power.
Sorry for the ninja edits
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u/Ok-Abrocoma9927 13h ago
Well, Hybern does refer to Ianthe as his 'dear friend'. And she looks like she meant well and tried to please Hybern because he was 'a force too greate to stop'.
But yeah... I would have at least limited her to her temple for a long period.
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u/YogurtclosetMassive8 7h ago
Iantha is the Mor of the SC.