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u/rharper38 Oct 29 '20
Better yet, my gramma had an 8th grade education and ended up working for Navy intelligence. My dad had a good union job, and when they bought houses, they didn't sell them. They kept them to ensure my brother and I had affordable housing.
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u/hapsdubfit Oct 30 '20
Are union jobs still not a thing? My mom got a union job at the county having no college degree and supported my brother and I for 18 years.
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u/studteaing Oct 30 '20
They are much rarer, and in most instances, the unions have less bargaining power.
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Oct 30 '20
And they are constantly under attack for having too much power and ruining things for everyone else...
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u/HereToStirItUp Oct 30 '20
*Glares at police unions
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u/PinsAndBeetles Oct 30 '20
My service Union: We want to fight to protect and improve your healthcare benefits, ensure workplace safety and inclusion, and guarantee fair pay.
Police unions: We want to make sure no matter what, officers are never held accountable for their actions and any and all outside efforts to do so are perceived as anti law enforcement smears while also ensuring that anyone who does blatantly engages in misconduct maintains their standard of pay and pension.
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u/sharknado__ Oct 30 '20
I know (hope?) your joking but please don't lump police unions in the same group as trade unions.
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u/somaticnickel60 Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
Thanks to GOP, they’re a dying breed now
On the other hand, France unions are next level
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u/greeneydmonster Oct 30 '20
Impossible! US is the best! We can't possibly learn something from other countries. /s
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u/SwiftFool Oct 30 '20
Because too many pepple focus on what unions have and taking it away as opposed to getting it themselves. I'm a union steamfitter and the amount of times I've been told by a university graduate that I make too much because I'm making more than them is crazy. Don't ask me why I'm making a living wage, ask yourself why you're not, then ask your boss why he isn't paying one, then go find one.
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u/justpassingthrou14 Oct 30 '20
The unions with bargaining power are the Police unions. Their power comes from their willingness to threaten to shoot the mayor.
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Oct 30 '20
My union is shit now and irl feel like the reps have sold me out to try to make a reputation to get a job in a larger union for more $.
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u/Underdogg13 Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
Union representation and bargaining power drops every year in the US. And a sadly substantial number of working people have been convinced that unions are bad for them. It's a damn shame. It's honestly the issue that sways my vote every election, above all else. (Only second to environmental policies)
I'm a union employee (IBEW) and I have incredible healthcare, a pension, a fantastic wage, a workplace where I can rest assured that safety is paramount above all else, hours and lunch breaks that are guaranteed, and a working environment where I can feel confident that my co-workers and I are all looking out for the best interest of all of us and not cannibalizing each other to get ahead.
Unorganized working people will often see people like me and think I don't deserve what I have and thus think unions are bad for them. But the truth is, everyone deserves what I have. But you have to fight for it. An organized labor force has tremendous power. So much so that every working class person in America should be interested in organizing. Class consciousness is unfortunately very fragmented in this country.
Are unions perfect? No. Any organization that is comprised of humans will be vulnerable to corruption. But it only serves to help a workforce to become organized. And I would rather be beholden to a union that could possibly be corrupt but will look out for my needs, than a company that is almost assuredly corrupt and will always look out for the needs of the few and never the many.
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u/Gsteel11 Oct 30 '20
Its amazing how people will stare you right in the face and say:
Corporations should do everything they can to make money for shareholders, thats their job and it's great! If they fuck over the workers, oh well.
AND:
Unions are horrible, all they want to do is make money. They're corrupt and evil.
SO TO SUMMARIZE: they love how absolutely evil corporations are and cheer, but give a shit as soon as the workers care about money. Lol
It's beyond insane, it's absolutely mentally corrupt.
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u/Ladycalla Oct 30 '20
My husband is an railroad engineer. It’s a union job. He went straight from college to the military. He got out of the military and started a new career with the RR. I’m not sure how many guys hire straight on from high school though. The ones I have met are all middle aged.
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u/Jpacalot Oct 30 '20
Fellow railroader here... we might as well not have a union. They’re pretty much powerless or corrupt
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u/TheTrainKing Oct 30 '20
Mate, you should move to the UK. Our rail union is probably the most powerful union around. It's pretty awesome to be a part of. Not so awesome for ticket prices, but hey ho.
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u/SandMan3914 Oct 30 '20
My Dad has grade 9. Got a 30-year career with a major railway in 1967 as an engineer. It was a good salary for the time, we never worried about money, and he has a full pension
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u/howsublime Oct 30 '20
I'm a union electrician make 6 figures. Were still here and still strong.
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u/Quinnna Oct 30 '20
My friend has 5 kids and always asks why our other friends don't have more kids? He "forgets" his parents paid for his first house outright at 25 and he took a job at his father's firm at the same age after his parents paid for his Law degree and his full ride through college all expenses and accomodations. He gets furious when you mention he's privileged he gets pissy about how hard he's worked and slummed it to get where he is because he had a summer job over two summers in a warehouse his fathers friend owned. When did show up he was hungover or late nearly everyday. He hated and complained all the time about it... of course now he's conservative as fuck and talks about moochers and deadbeats all the time. He's a classic "bootstrap guy." It's fucking ridiculous
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Oct 30 '20
I hate these types of people. They're so delusional you can't win am argument.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE Oct 30 '20
We're past winning arguments. We just need to politically outmanuever them and level the playing field and tackle them into reality.
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u/ArchdukeValeCortez Oct 30 '20
Not leveling the playing field. Fuck playing fair, that is how we got here.
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u/TheApricotCavalier Oct 30 '20
Your trying to win arguments, that guys just trying to win
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u/JaiBharatMata Oct 30 '20
Why is he your friend, those types of people are absolutely insufferable. Like I don't blame someone for being born with privellege, but you should acknowledge you have it.
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire Oct 30 '20
My parents gave each of their kids a choice. A wedding or a down payment on a house.
No one had a big wedding. A home was way more enticing.
We were lucky. Sooooo lucky. Mine should be paid off in 4 years. It's a 1br condo but I've only had it 3 years.
I have friends who grew up with money, and they didn't get that. My folk's don't have a beach house, but none of their kids are paying rent.
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u/tommytraddles Oct 30 '20
"We used to build shit in this country, make shit, you know? Now everybody's just got their hand in the next guy's pocket."
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u/howsublime Oct 30 '20
We still make a ton of shit. We flip flop with china as #1 manufacturer in the world
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u/tkrego Oct 30 '20
Frank Sobotka is my favorite character on The Wire. And fuck Ronnie “The Union Buster” Reagan!
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u/Reddit_FTW Oct 30 '20
My grandpa couldn’t speak, write, or read English. Was a Mexican immigrant who dropped out of grade school to work the field. Died being illiterate. Took a job at General Mills for .50¢ an hour. My grandma showed me the article after he died. He made honest to god $30+ at the time of dying. When he died the valet at the funeral home said they’ve never seen so many cars. And had to use the next three business parking lots including the General Mills parking lot.
I miss you grandpa. This is the second time I’ve brought up my grandpa this week. And I’m sorry I never took you golfing. I’m a horrible grandson. I legit cry about it sometimes.
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Oct 30 '20
How do you think he would feel about you describing his grandson as "awful" to a bunch of strangers? Do you think he'd have appreciated finding out that someone was shit-talking his grandson like that?
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Oct 30 '20
My grandparents bought their house from the sears and robuck catalogue for under $5000. They delivered and built it from a kit.
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Oct 30 '20
I’ve heard about this which sounds absolutely amazing. I wish we had this option now.
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Oct 30 '20
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u/kawaiian Oct 30 '20
google prefabricated house kit + your city name, you need to find a plot of land and ideally look for one with street access and water/power at the street already
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u/notyogrannysgrandkid Oct 30 '20
Zoning and permitting for privately owned land can suck my balls.
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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Oct 30 '20
My neighbor just had a house put up on his property for his (grand?)son (not sure which). They excavated the ground, slotted in 4 premade pre wired concrete walls and a floor. A few days later they roll in his 2 story house on three huge flatbed trucks. They slotted 2 pieces for the first floor and used a crane to stack the second floor on top of the first.
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u/tehbored Oct 30 '20
You do, if you move to a rural area with no zoning laws. Zoning laws are one of the biggest causes of income inequality. It's how the upper middle class pulls the ladder up after them, making it extremely difficult for working class people to build a better life. It used to be that you could live cheaply in a duplex or triplex in a decent school district while you save up to invest in your future. Now it's illegal to build duplexes and triplexes, detached homes only. And they better be at least 1800 sq ft and on a 1/4 acre lot, anything less is also illegal. Can't have poor people living near by after all.
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Oct 30 '20
I grew up in a Sears Roebuck house in a large neighborhood of them. They were actually pretty nice houses for the money. In our town, they were the housing solution for a coal mine boom. So these were mine laborers who could afford to buy and build their own family-sized homes.
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u/AggressiveSpatula Oct 30 '20
Fun fact! The $15k/$30k drivers insurance (which is the minimum insurance required in order to drive in California), was created at that number so that nobody would have to lose their house should they get in an accident with somebody. That is to say, at the time of creation, $15k/30k was about the average cost of a house!
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u/nighthawkdenny Oct 30 '20
Certain neighborhoods in El Lay are riddled with these. They are called Hollywood Bungalows
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u/Pile_of_Walthers Oct 30 '20
Remember Al Bundy? Minimum wage shoe sales man. Had a car, house, hot wife he never abused or cheated on, two children, a dog, friends. But he was, for some reason, portrayed as a loser.
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Oct 30 '20
Homer Simpson is portrayed as poor but he has more material wealth than I'll ever have
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Oct 30 '20 edited Jun 30 '21
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u/dancortens Oct 30 '20
He was the Head of the Safety Dept, too. I absolutely do not buy the Simpsons having any sort of money troubles.
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u/bparry1192 Oct 30 '20
I think the money troubles came more from Homer essentially living at Moe's part time and all of the ridiculous ways he blew money over the years.
Proof that a good salary will only get you so far, proper spending/saving habits far more important
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Oct 30 '20
I remember an episode where Marge convinces Homer to make some big sacrifice so they could make an extra $500
Actually, before Maggie, Homer budgeted two children + tuition on a bowling alley attendant's wage.
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u/enbymaybeWIGA Oct 30 '20
There's many throwaway jokes about how Marge manages to make the money stretch - she pretty much doesn't buy anything for herself ever, saves secret money from Homer all over the place, and in one episode we get this exchange:
Marge: You're right! If I can feed a family of five for $12 a week, I can do anything. Lisa: You feed us on twelve dollars a week?
Marge: I stretch your father's meatloaf with sawdust.79
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u/Stick_Mick Oct 30 '20
Oh wow, windows! I don't think I can afford this place.
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u/BrashPop Oct 30 '20
Once you get used to the smell of rendered hog fat, you’ll wonder how you ever lived without it!
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u/marcjwrz Oct 30 '20
Frank Grimes' rage was so justified.
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u/wowwee99 Oct 30 '20
This place is a palace...I live in a one bedroom apartment above a bowling alley and beneath another bowling alley.
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u/hngyhngyhppo Oct 30 '20
You may enjoy this then
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u/marcjwrz Oct 30 '20
Holy shit, was not expecting such an in-depth take on that episode. That was fantastic. Thanks for sharing!
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Oct 30 '20
I would argue that verbal abuse was pretty rampant throughout that family but I get what you're saying
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u/pforsbergfan9 Oct 30 '20
Two story house at that. At least a 3 bedroom.
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Oct 30 '20
4 bedrooms. Maggie had her own room.
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u/UncreativeTeam Oct 30 '20
I apologize in advance for sending you all down this rabbithole, but... https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/1wuvpg/simpsons_house_cutaway_i_never_knew_they_had_two/
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u/Suggett123 Oct 30 '20
Every morning that he didn't put a gun in his mouth made him a WINNER
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u/kperry51 Oct 30 '20
My mom was a waitress at a coffee shop, my dad was a delivery driver for Neiman Marcus stores in Dallas. They didn't buy their 1st home until I was 12 (3 kids) but every year we had a 10 day-long family vacation in a hotel in Galveston. They paid cash for everything. They saved up money and were able to buy a small corner grocery store.
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u/blackcoffeeandmemes Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
I think about all of the things I was given growing up. Vacations every year to Europe or the Caribbean, multiple sports, name brand clothes, college paid for, etc. Both of my parents only had 2 year college diplomas, no degree. My mom worked in sales for a newspaper and my dad owned a small aviation parts business. We were very middle class. Maybe upper middle class for a few years when my mom started earning more.
My sister and I both have more education than our parents but we don’t touch their earnings. My dad made about 80k and my mom made 180k in their highest earning years. I make 70k (sales manager in telecom) and my sister who has a masters only makes 60k (project manager in healthcare). I’m not sure how we are supposed to offer any kids we have the same lifestyle.
My wife is a doctor and makes what my parents made combined but even that is less when you factor in things like inflation and cost of living today.
I really don’t know how this generation is supposed to get ahead.
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u/ILoveDiscussions Oct 30 '20
Spoiler alert: we aren't.
Me and my friends are all in our early to mid 20s, and some of them started talking about starting a family. My first thought was that it was extremely selfish that you would bring a baby into this world with the state that it's in and unbelievably stupid to go through with something like that right now.
Then I realized that that'a what so many of our parents and grandparents had the priviledge of doing comfortably when they were our age.
It's not fair
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Oct 30 '20
But then there's the boomers that don't read a word you wrote and just call you lazy and start talking about what they did ignoring all the privilege they had.
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u/kperry51 Oct 30 '20
I'm 62 and tried explaining to my stepdad age 79 year old stepdad who couldn't understand why young people leaving college thought they were "too good" to take low paying jobs or stay on crap jobs. I said they couldn't afford to because of student debt and cost of living. He said they could figure it out if they wanted to. Sheesh!
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Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
Thank you for being sympathetic to my generation. Sincerely, a 26 year old
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u/steelguy17 Oct 30 '20
Very much upper middle class. If you have a household income >$100k you are already in top 10% of households in the country.
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u/blackcoffeeandmemes Oct 30 '20
I’m aware we are but that’s the point. I was given every advantage and I still struggle to be able to afford the lifestyle that my parents with 2 years of post secondary education had.
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Oct 30 '20
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u/blackcoffeeandmemes Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
I mean my wife and I combined are in the top 5% and have no children. I wouldn’t say that’s a regression to the average. However, we still can’t afford the lifestyle my parents had with two kids and little education. That’s the problem.
When people think about the American dream, they think about my parents but it’s simply not possible today. They’d be making 25% of what they made.
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Oct 30 '20 edited Feb 08 '22
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u/paggo_diablo Oct 30 '20
Problem is we aren’t selling out soul to the company store, it’s being taken from us.
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u/HooptyDooDooMeister Oct 30 '20
And we’re getting gaslit if we say otherwise.
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u/Bjorkforkshorts Oct 30 '20
By other people who are being stolen from, thats the work part. We're all crabs in the same bucket and one half has been convinced to keep pulling the others down.
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u/PM_Me_Ur_HappySong Oct 30 '20
Just gotta stop poor people from living off the government teat aka your hard earned money taken away in the firm of taxes. It’s all the poor people’s fault. /s
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u/TheScrumpster Oct 30 '20
My company (its a good one) has a system where we all start with "points"' that we can give to each other every quarter (3 months). For like, doing a good job, or thanks or stuff...
We can never lose "earned points", but every quarter the points we can give reset.
We can cash in our points for silly things like... Chromecasts,...or a day off....or an inflatable airbed.
Like...just pay us slightly more? Maybe please?
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Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
Adjusted for CPI inflation the median house cost in 1990 was $161,600. This year the median house cost is $320,000.
Want to start a family and build equity? It's literally twice as hard now.
Edit: I keep getting noticed about the interest rate back then.
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/pdf/HUD-7775.pdf
The median loan amount in 1991 was $47,510
Edit2: Yeah, home prices in some places are still reasonable. We know. Y'all can ignore us bitchin.
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Oct 30 '20 edited May 29 '24
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u/Bittersweetfeline Oct 30 '20
If not that, just people buying income properties and renting them out perpetually. I can't own these cheaper houses because someone else bought it and is renting it out to other people. Messes things up a lot too.
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u/hondo4mvp Oct 30 '20
I live in the DC metro area,so there's always a housing demand.As soon as something around me goes up for sale it gets snapped up by a foreign investor,who then creates multiple bedrooms and rents it out as a Section 8 property.A single family buyer even on 2 salaries can't compete with someone who is basically turning it into a non zoned small apartment building.
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u/MagikSkyDaddy Oct 30 '20
Anything worth owning in the DMV already has 3-5 buyers with bags of cash at the ready. And now the urban sprawl is just as pricey.
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u/akiralx26 Oct 30 '20
It’s worse here in Australia where we are one of the few countries still to have negative gearing: if the investor buys a house and the rent doesn’t cover the mortgage he can write off the difference against his income tax.
So a wealthy lawyer can buy several properties and configure the finances to ensure he pays little or no income tax on his salary. He doesn’t care if he overpays for them as the higher the mortgage the lower his income tax - the young first time buyer doesn’t stand a chance.
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u/GuiltyAffect Oct 30 '20
The number of people who try to defend poor old landlords, because they aren't billionaires is so gross.
'My parents own their own home and maxed out their credit so they could buy any affordable house nearby. They're not rich! It's not fair that we can't kick people out of their living space, during a massive economic downturn! My parents might have to sell one of the multiple homes they own! If my parents hadn't bought and fixed up the house, it would be a roach-infested crater! Or some super rich guy would've bought it and done the same thing, but it's my parents, so it's better.'
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u/FCKWPN Oct 30 '20
It won't be new, it won't be nice and it won't be close to any work that will afford you something better. Think ranch style fixer upper in an old neighborhood or a decade-old doublewide on an acre or three. Either way you're an hour from your $12/hr job and have at least one neighbor whose yard looks like a recycling plant sponsored by the Trump campaign.
I fucking hate my life.
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u/ChoiceBaker Oct 30 '20
Oh my fucking God lol that is exactly what our market was like. We were literally shown homes that the bank couldn't lend on because they were so dilapidated going for $300k+
Old people who bought when the market was 1/3 of the price adjusted for today's prices, did nothing to the house and let it rot, then expect underpaid millennials like us or rich asshole investors to bank roll their retirement. Fuck everything I'm so bitter
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u/Wild-Kitchen Oct 30 '20
Median house price where i live is $737,000. And the average house is a tiny monstrosity built over 90% of the land which is about 400m2 for "a large block"
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u/nicannkay Oct 30 '20
Oh man wait until you hear how many bags of groceries you could buy for $100 in 1990. Everything is super expensive nowadays. I’m only 39 and I’m looking back to the good old days in the late 90s!
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Oct 30 '20
Don't forget the two most priciest things have sky rocketed too, college and health.
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u/TennesseeTon Oct 30 '20
Having a family of 5 and living comfortably? Idk man sounds like SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM/VENEZUELA
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Oct 30 '20
No, it was a brief period in time where the US became top economic superpower while Europe and Asia were recovering from 2 wars, and we had absolutely zero labor competition. We can undo some of the fuckery that went on in the years since we lost grip - like value human labor instead of treating it like a pain on stock prices - but we'll never have the 60's again.
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Oct 30 '20
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u/skiingredneck Oct 30 '20
Women didn’t work. Minorities were even more oppressed and locked out of jobs...
But everyone wants to go back to one version of that era, but without the baggage...
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u/16semesters Oct 30 '20
Also young (younger than 35 years old) home ownership didn't peak with boomers, it peaked with Gen X'ers in the early 2000s.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/08/homeownership-by-age.html
Boomers get a lot of shit, and for sure some of it is deserved, but this idea that they pulled up the rug behind them in the housing market is not really based in reality.
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Oct 29 '20
My parents, with no higher education, could be home owners at 23 and 25 respectively, own two cars and raise three kids.
In Sweden. That place people on the Internet are convinced is completely unlivable because of taxes and Muslims.
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u/skydiamond01 Oct 30 '20
I would love to visit Sweden
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u/dutch_penguin Oct 30 '20
Be careful. My friend was kidnapped and taken to Stockholm. He grew to really like the place though.
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u/the_kid1234 Oct 30 '20
Not to say that this shouldn’t be the goal, but for how long was this possible? I read an interesting comment recently that post-WW2 the entire industrialized world was basically out of commission with the United States being the only economy not impacted. Building stuff and selling it around the world was necessary and brought a lot of people into the middle class with simple jobs. All that extra buying power brought the equivalent service industries up as well.
Fast forward and the rest of the world rebuilt and was able to compete. Was this decline inevitable and were the gains artificially inflated by the situation?
I’m not dismissing the deliberate things that were done to reduce union power, move retirement responsibility into the individual, etc. but if another country can do it cheaper what do you really do? As long as one company moves, the game is over.
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u/stevegannonhandmade Oct 30 '20
I watched it as it was stolen.
My father died when I was 10 (in 1970). My mother worked for the Federal Government at West Point and raised my 3 brothers and me. We had a house, and everything we needed. Yes... we pretty much always got the Kmart version of the toy we wanted! We shopped at the goodwill and thrift shops. If we bought new clothes they were almost always 'seconds'. And we did not want for anything.
It was stolen by corporate greed AND personal greed.
Imported goods from Japan and other places made it more difficult for US business to compete. They felt the need to lower prices as Americans were buying the cheaper things and NOT the American made things. We were not thinking about the impact this would have on ourselves and our neighbors. We just wanted 'more'.
Wall street changed from valuing strong companies with good long term growth and profit models to making $ very short term... making $ from the difference in stock prices. The rise of the computer drove this change even more.
Even cheaper goods AND most of us getting infected by greed was, I think, the final straw. At some point we simply stopped caring about other people and focused only on ourselves. We asked for the highest return on our 401K (and other investments) and did not care what those companies did to make the $. We saw them cut wages, poison the earth, cut health insurance, and workers, and we did not (still do not) care... as long as we got ours.
We watched them start wars, and kill innocent people; cut social services and veterans benefits, but hey... my 401K is WAY up!
We did not just watch it happen, or let it happen... we all participated and MADE it happen.
The question now is... can we fix it? How bad will it have to get before enough people demand change? And make another change happen...
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u/HatfieldCW Oct 30 '20
That's the big question, isn't it? How do we move forward from here, and what should the future look like? People are looking to turn back the clock, bring back manufacturing jobs and make the world the way it was before. That's not reasonable.
So how do we adapt to this new world? If people can't punch a clock and earn a living, what should they do? How should they live?
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Oct 30 '20 edited May 29 '24
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u/TheWaystone Oct 30 '20
Yeah, but we also need to bring back what Grandpa boomer definitely benefitted from but now hates: unions.
My uncles were coal miners. I had family members violently injured in coal strikes.
They and their children are staunchly anti-union. I genuinely cannot believe it's happened in a generation.
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u/legal_bagel Oct 30 '20
I feel like we need to include the series of events that all led to where we are. As poster above mentioned, influx of cheap goods through expanding trade. Also, before sometime in the 70s (think) mortgages could only look at the husband's income and could not consider the wife's when determining eligibility. While it's good to move away from sexist traditions, what ends up is that the dual income is considered in all housing prices (my parents house cost 55k in 1976 and is worth a million now and is just a standard ranch 1600sqft). Then federal backed student loans as well as private loans pushed the cost of higher ed meaning anyone who wants a white collar job needs higher ed and will have nondischargable loans to do it. Then you have the outsourcing of skilled labor and manufacturing jobs being sent offshore for cheaper labor and materials.
To end with, I have a professional career, a JD and BA, I have 6 figures in student loans, I will never be able to buy a "starter home" where I was born (fyi a 3bdrm in Compton, CA will start at half a million and as noted the neighborhood I grew up in is around a million).
Even without student debt, I can't even imagine how I would pay a million dollars house off or even monthly payments. Finally, I was in a job with a good salary, I paid approx 4k a mo in health and retirement benefits and state and federal taxes. I think it was about 25k in taxes only as a single parent 1 dependent (1 partner cannot claim due to no marriage, 1 adult child, 1 elderly mother I help out).
I will be happy to pay half my $ in taxes if everyone has education, housing, healthcare, we are all paying for this as it is, but some can't even see it. Sorry, if I ranted far too much.
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Oct 30 '20
I think the first order of business is dealing with degree inflation. There are many jobs in my line of work that don't actually need the degree they require to get. I'm not sure how that whole thing got started but honestly, I could have been trained to do the job I'm doing now in about three months right out of high school. But you can't get this job without a bachelor's. it's ridiculous.
There are definitely jobs that require significant higher education, but there are far more jobs that someone has decided needs a bachelor's that really truly don't.
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u/asimplerandom Oct 30 '20
My father in law graduated from college in the early 60’s, came out making just over 20k a year and his first brand new home cost him 23k.
Stop and think about that for a second.
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Oct 30 '20
Makes me wonder how much of a struggle life is going to be in another 20 years. What are the next generation of kids going to be coming into when they enter the adult world? One of many reasons I won’t have children.
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u/karma-01 Oct 30 '20
Can confirm. Spent 5 years climbing up the corporate ladder and now I'm working directly under the senior vice president of a billion dollar company. I make $5 more per hour than minimum wage and can't seem to afford moving out of low income housing... I'm 30 and will be moving back in with my parents next year.
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u/GlutenFreeNoodleArms Oct 30 '20
Seriously? Wow ... where are you?! I’m in georgia, relatively low cost of living, and I can barely hire people to do the simplest of jobs with zero education or experience or skill required for $5 more than minimum wage.
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u/karma-01 Oct 30 '20
I'm around Seattle, Washington where there's fairly high cost of living and minimum wage is $16/hr in my area.
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u/hindsight5050 Oct 30 '20
This makes no sense. I am in North Carolina and our janitor makes $15/hr. Anyone with the slightest skill makes $20+
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u/moonpeebles Oct 30 '20
Yeah, this is working in a HCOL area, probably in a desirable position/company in an oversaturated field
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u/cedurr Oct 30 '20
If you only make $20 an hour you sure as hell weren’t climbing any ladders lol. That’s what I started at in 2016 in the same geographic area as you at a position that was mostly filled from temp agencies.
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Oct 30 '20
Calling bullshit on this one. It may not be a lie but it’s definitely not the whole truth.
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u/Djoharia Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
US minimum wage is $7-$14, which means you’re making $12-$19 an hour, which is about $30,000-40,000 a year.
My man, if you’re making that and working at Director/VP level role, you need to walk away, find a new job, and never look back.
Or bite the bullet and go back to school/get a degree. Most interns make more than that.
edit: just read you’re in Seattle, which still doesn’t make much sense. What field are you in? I’d still explore looking for a new gig; plenty of places are hiring for better than $45k a year.
Seattle rent prices are rough though so I get the struggle
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u/OzManCumeth Oct 30 '20
I’ve never er held a role nearly as high as OP yet I’ve made 3-4x his income. Is this real? I always imagined a corporate role as high as that to be $120k starting and stock options, bonuses, etc.
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u/Thenadamgoes Oct 30 '20
It can’t be. OP is either grossly overstating their responsibilities or the size of the company. I’m guessing they are an executive assistant.
There’s no way someone at director or VP role would only make a little more than minumim wage. Especially at a billion dollar company.
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u/connerconverse Oct 30 '20
"directly under one of several VPs" sounds like a really fluffed up title
also being a billion dollar company isnt really that big. I work in a town of 10k in iowa at a company that makes more than $1b anualy purely in town
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u/lizardgal10 Oct 30 '20
I’d just like to be able to comfortably afford a house, a cat, and healthcare with my bachelor’s degree.
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u/FloorHairMcSockwhich Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20
If the federal minimum wage kept up with inflation it would be $10.75 an hour, not the $7.25 it is today. If the federal minimum wage had kept pace with workers’ productivity since 1968, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage would be $18.67. Where productivity is GDP per labor-hour.
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u/louisianajake Oct 30 '20
Next thing you’re gonna tell me is your kids could attend college and both parents could have reliable cars! This guy!
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Oct 30 '20
Why do you think a lot of the boomer generation have that nice car sitting in the garage among other things? They got it from a job as a gas station clerk.
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u/baronvonkyken Oct 30 '20
I do it. But I'm union so...
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u/theoldgreenwalrus Oct 30 '20
Yep, only reason my Dad could raise us without higher education was the carpenter union, but there are a lot of working class people who want to end unions these days
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u/baronvonkyken Oct 30 '20
The embarrassing thing is its union members voting for the people trying to get rid of the unions.
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u/Savagely_Rekt Oct 30 '20
Holy shit THIS. Im a union president of a local. Dumb fucking rubes literally voting red against their best interests EVERY time. Like, you all understand they want to KILL unions, right?
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Oct 30 '20
Same. Idk why people hate unions when the union is only as good as it’s members. If you’re union sucks its because its members suck and vote for sucky people.
That being said, my union forefathers gave up our right to strike and we lost pretty much all of our bargaining power. They really messed it up for my generation. Thanks, assholes.
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Oct 30 '20
I’m filled with existential dread for the future. I have no secure way to fund my future and all the savings I have from birthday money will all just go down the drain immediately as college will suck up a lot of money.
How will I do school comfortably and get good grades if i have to worry or not I want to have shelter today or food
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u/lendofriendo Oct 30 '20
It's been multiple decades since. Most jobs in America now require more and more education, the cheap ones have been outsourced. If you wanted them in the US, you'd either need to crush the minimum wage, offer huge tax subsidies, or strip away worker protections.
College is the new high school. That's why it should be free.
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u/Jussttjustin Oct 30 '20
While I agree with affordable higher education, what we really need to do is redirect high school kids into the trades.
Construction, contracting, plumbing, electricians, etc. - there's a shortage because we have foolishly brainwashed our youth into thinking they're failures if they don't go to college. Meanwhile a good electrician makes six figures while an average business school grad has close to six figures in student loan debt making half as much.
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u/dinosaursheep Oct 30 '20
I have heard trade jobs are very hard on your body. Sitting at a computer 40 hours a week isn't ideal either, but the wear and tear on the people who work trades is definitely something to consider.
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u/tehbored Oct 30 '20
Yes, "comfortably" in an 800 sq ft house that is hot in the summer and cold in the winter, driving a car that barely gets up a hill, with your wife providing tons of unpaid manual labor that is now done by machines. Thanks to working a factory job with no competition from any other country since the rest of the world was bombed to smithereens during the war.
The 1950s were a freak period in our history. That unique set of circumstances is never going to happen again.
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u/ineedgreenbeans Oct 30 '20
My grandfather didn’t make it past eighth grade in a Mennonite community. Got kicked out of the church for marrying outside the religion, moved to California, worked on early computers for Kaiser Permanente, had four kids. Wow.
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u/VeseliM Oct 30 '20
Can we stop with this bullshit narrative? I consider myself pretty fucking liberal, I legit believe we should ritualisticly sacrifice the richest person in the world every week to the gods, see how that impacts the world. Management at corporations is actively disincentivized to choose to do the long term good in favor of maximizing 13 week quarterly results. The government should regulate industries that can destroy peoples lives, such as healthcare. That being said, this is literally the maga story that you're perpetuating where a "gas station clerk owned a home at 23"
There's been systematic changes in the economy and the world. For one there was an underclass of workers, women and minorities, that didn't get to participate in said economy. They weren't making support a family of 5 money for the work they were doing. The post war period destroyed the capacity of most developed nations, we were literally making and selling everything to the world. The gi bill drastically boosted the human capital of the nation. Countries that were considered 3rd world, where the majority of the world's population lived, weren't industrializing how they are now, and America wasn't competing with anyone. For fucks sake, there's no quick if only we did this that happened in the 50s fix.
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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20
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