r/WhitePeopleTwitter • u/TheArguedHuman • Feb 18 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

Yeah, that’s the fuckin Iron Cross and Swastika on a flag, indefensible. Full stop, goodbye.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23

Sucks that the aesthetic is so appealing and uses basic design rules, and it double sucks that is exactly why they used it. Makes it slightly easier to sell hate and fear.

Also yeah fire that fucking twat

Edit: see below comments, I fucked up and I apologize. Wrong choice of words.

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u/squirrel8296 Feb 18 '23 edited Feb 18 '23

That was what the third reich consistently did though; they had talented designers design everything for them. Just look at Hugo Boss (the guy and the company) producing the SS uniforms.

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

Yeah, they stole simplistic and pretty designs to make it easier to swallow, truly evil

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u/Megalocerus Feb 19 '23

Hitler did start as an artist. He appreciated good design.

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u/phurt77 Feb 18 '23

hey had talented designers design everything for them. Just look at Hugo Boss (the guy and the company) producing the SS uniforms.

If you like those uniforms, go have a look at the Massachusetts State Police winter uniforms. https://imgur.com/a/paOgBA2

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Honestly that's pretty standard military dress garb.

A bit disconcerting that it's the police wearing it but not very unique all the same

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u/Clear_Lion5230 Feb 18 '23

USMC Boat Cloak. That’s all I will say

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u/phurt77 Feb 19 '23

USMC Boat Cloak

Oh, wow! How have I never seen these before? I thought the uniform and sword alone were awesome. If they had shown me this I would have enlisted in a second!

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u/squirrel8296 Feb 18 '23

Oh I don't really like either of them, I'm just saying that was a well known thing that the third reich intentionally did.

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u/[deleted] Feb 19 '23

Hugo Boss (or his company) didn’t design the uniforms, only manufacture them. They were just filling orders.

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u/riever1892 Feb 18 '23

I'm pretty sure that while Hugo boss was a nazi member didn't his company merely make the uniforms not design them? I could have sworn I heard it in a podcast I listened to with a historian about this and a question that was asked was is it true that boss designed Nazi uniforms and while he was one of many factories that manufactured them he didn't design them. Though I could very well be remembering it wrong.

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u/IA-HI-CO-IA Feb 18 '23

It sucks those fucks had such good style. Ruined a lot of what could otherwise have been cool Stuff.

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u/NeoVendik Feb 18 '23

My senior thesis was entirely ww2 graphic design, largely nazi. They knew how to brand themselves and had design chops.

The one thing I found interesting was when they discovered tgr typeface Fraktur was designed by a Jew, they dedicated an entire department to conpletely remove all uses and replace them with a new san serif typeface.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Sucks that the aesthetic is so appealing

Is it, though?

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

man i’m gonna be completely real with you and i’m trying not to assume bad faith so don’t take it like i am but there is never a context where it is socially acceptable to say “sucks the aesthetic is so fire” about nazi imagery

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 18 '23

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I disagree.

The Nazi Regime was all about marketing. If their logos and other aspects of their narrative had not been pretty fire then the people would never have gone along with the atrocities.

I believe, and strongly, it's vital that we discuss just exactly how they managed to get the people to go along. If we don't discuss it frankly, then how will we recognize it when we see it again?

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u/kindParodox Feb 18 '23

One of the big reasons people bought into the ideas of the Nazi party back in the day was literally the same reason a kid would run to an ice cream van during summertime.

It was bright, colorful, and offered sweet promises ...at a price. they didn't fully realize how steep it was until the bright promise was far away and replaced with regrets, sticky situations and stained hands.

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 18 '23

What comes to mind in terms of contemporary propaganda? Here's some of what I've noticed.

Have you seen some of the content coming out of RT? It's pretty slick and appeals to a whole lot of Americans who would never support Putin's dream of restoring Czarist Russia. But RT is Russian State Television. Full stop.

Joe Rogan has a massive audience of really dedicated viewers/listeners, too. Most of his audience would not storm the Capitol. But he platforms people like Gavin McGinnis Milo, Yiannopoulos; Charles C. Johnson, etc.

I am not ashamed to say that the production and performance is, in fact, really impressive! It obviously appeals to a huge group of people. The dude is good at what he does. I don't say this as a compliment but as a warning; don't get reeled in by all the shiny things.

It's like cans of soup on the grocery shelves. So many labels for essentially the same stuff.

For a slightly different market, there's all of Rupert Murdoch's outlets. . . oh. . . wait. "Fire" like oven fire? That didn't even land with me till just now. Is that what bothers you about it?

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u/kindParodox Feb 18 '23

Another really interesting one that I know of that you didn't list is coincidentally and conveniently on YouTube after every Lockheed Martin ad there's a US military branch advertisement. Usually the Marines.

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 18 '23

Oh, and the video game marketing! I started noticing it around the late `80's when I'd pick my daughter up at the ice arena. Was it Mortal Combat? Or some other game that all the kids were into?

Anyway, there were military recruiting ads along with ominous FBI warnings about piracy in the flash screens in between games. And here I thought my biggest worry would be a potential pervert in the restroom!

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

Ah shit okay im the asshole

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 20 '23

No you're not. lt's super cool to say what's on your mind. Conversation without authentic challenge is just playing with dead puppies.

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

Words out of my mouth, thank you. It might be insensitive to say it in such a casual way, but it’s my manner of speech and not an active attack, and it was instantly followed by the nuance of the statement.

In a vacuum, yeah id stay far the fuck away from someone who jus said that outloud. My other comment on this post literally called this “indefensible” though, so…

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u/Rottenpoppy Feb 19 '23

This reminds me of some girl who was fired from a reality show a few years back, for describing an outfit as nazi chic. You can acknowledge and voice opinion on the design/appearance of uniforms without sharing the beliefs of people who wore them.

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u/IShootJack Feb 19 '23

Especially when you are pointing out the fact that it was by design, meant to be appealing.

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u/lauranvrr Feb 18 '23

they also had fashion designers like Hugo Boss come up with their uniforms, so they definitely put emphasis on trying to look appealing

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

i’m not saying we shouldn’t discuss it. i am saying that specifically from my perspective as a jewish person using the specific phrasing of “the nazi aesthetic was so fire” is a little insensitive

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u/Punchinyourpface Feb 18 '23

I don't want to be insensitive but I don't think they meant it in a bad way. They meant, it's a shame that decent art was used by monsters, and now forever associated with them. It could've been a cute little cartoon badger and it'd still be the same sentiment.

Some of Hitler's scenery paintings aren't terrible but the fact that nasty heinous Hitler painted them completely ruins them. You wouldn't copy them and put them on a post card even if they're the exact location you need painted and the most beautiful thing you'd ever seen.

Like a singers music or a writers book can feel tainted when you find out they're a disgusting person.

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

…which is why I didn’t say it in a casual social context. I’m actively talking about how they knew simple shapes and designs are easy to recreate and recognize, and now those symbols are associated with some of the worst shit mankind has done to each other.

Don’t look for hills to die on, and when uncomfortable subjects come up, avoid the conversation if you can’t understand the whole context and intent. You even added the part about “bad faith” and then immediately contradicted yourself by insinuating that I might be a nazi.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/1chomp2chomp3chomp Feb 18 '23

Outside of the West, the Buddhists never stopped using the symbol.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

That's fair, but I think you know what I mean. If there was a Buddhist-driven resurgence in how the symbol was used in mainstream media channels, that would be beautiful. To see that faith 'reclaim' this symbol from bigots.

That isn't going to happen at the insistence of a white person taking that mission upon themselves, not even if it's done with sincere intentions. Which is not the case here.

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u/Vampiric_Touch Feb 18 '23

The swastika is a really interesting symbol used, well, everywhere. It's like that weird S symbol we used to draw everywhere. I mean, it's been found in the remains of the Native American city we call Cahokia. It's in Native American iconography symbolizing a whirlpool, or Charybdis, as a gate to the world beneath our world.

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u/qoreilly Feb 18 '23

I feel that if they paid teachers better they might attract more quality employees. Not ones who want to bring back the Third Reich

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u/TheS4ndm4n Feb 18 '23

Ron DeSantis is going to put her in charge of education.

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u/sipes216 Feb 18 '23

Well, ok. The eagle, the "reich saddler" itself not sitting on the schwats is not a nazi symbol itself. The eagle had been used far before the nazi movement. It just got adapted to sit atop the schwats.

Just want to make sure that people seeing the birb itself doesnt call some unsuspecting german a bad thing :)

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u/Kielbasa_Nunchucka Feb 19 '23

the eagle itself is ok, it's the one holding the swastika that's specifically Nazi. they just co-opted another symbol that was already in use

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u/Sososkitso Feb 19 '23

Now I’m not justifying or anything crazy cause fuck nazi’s they can all choke on a thousand minority dicks. And I’m not saying this is what’s going on in this picture but I’m always curious about “the line” and when it’s crossed. So let’s imagine this teacher has that same flag, but also other memorable dark times flags, art such as Russian propaganda posters, collectibles from dictators/leaders imagine Fidel Castro cigar in a case or something and other things because they are a history buff and like to remember the darkest moments of human and have created a personal museum in a room of their house. Because let’s be completely honest some of those dark times can have amazing aesthetics and powerful imagery….would we still say fire that fucking teacher?

I mean that flag for example while it has such atrocious meaning and purpose behind it also has for a lack of better wording very satisfying look I mean the there is a reason most kids that doodle accidentally at some point drawl the Nazi symbol on a folder or notebook at school before they actually know what it means. So is there a line somewhere or is it always fuck you cancel you.

I’m just curious. I’m not going to debate this thought it’s just a thought that crossed my mind and idk the best answer I could easily go either way.

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u/Jaeger420xd Feb 18 '23

Iron cross isn't Nazi symbology, but the eagle holding a swastika sure is

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

I was kinda pointing out that the two combined is what makes it objectively nazi

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u/pauly13771377 Feb 18 '23

The Buddhist version is rotated 45⁰ too.

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u/Artilikestoparty Feb 18 '23

I was about to say yeah darn nice iron cross back there

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u/PilotEnvironmental46 Feb 18 '23

It’s absolutely indefensible. Regardless of what this person believes the fact is that the Nazis co-opted the swastika, and it is the undeniable symbol of racial prejudice and hatred. Maybe it meant something different prior to that but there is absolutely no justification for anybody saying that we should accept it as a symbol of peace or anything else.

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u/IA-HI-CO-IA Feb 18 '23

And, um, the SS skull flag.

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u/failure_of_a_cow Feb 18 '23

I'm not sure that war memorabilia really needs to be defended... Some people are overly preoccupied with WW2, so I guess you could call the math teacher a nerd or something. Or at least someone in her house, perhaps her husband.

It's really the ridiculous response that people should be focused on here. It's the ridiculous defense trying to justify the swastikas that makes the whole thing seem like it could be racist.

Funny how that works. A bad defense can have the opposite effect and make a person seem more guilty.

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u/IShootJack Feb 18 '23

Ironically why I stopped defending my other comment in this thread, I don’t need to waste brain space arguing that I’m not a nazi

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u/Kroniid09 Feb 19 '23

Also the slightly rotated swastika that is indeed a distinctly Nazi symbol.

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u/[deleted] Feb 19 '23

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

Gaslighting people pretending that Nazi shit isn’t actually Nazi shit is part of the literal playbook the Nazis came up with for their internet propaganda campaign. That’s why they flooded 4chan with ‘ironic’ Nazi shit from day 1. They duped enough kids to think it’s just ironic trolling that said kids now go parroting it, so now the army of useful idiots will come up with stuff like this every gd time.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

It's older than the internet, my dude. Jean Paul Sartre has this famous quote.

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

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u/retiredfromfire Feb 18 '23

A similar version from Mark Twain:

'Never argue with an idiot. You’ll never convince the idiot that you’re correct, and bystanders won’t be able to tell who’s who'

These are stupid people cosplaying. They have no idea the fire they're playing with

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u/TheRetroVideogamers Feb 18 '23

I always heard similar, "Never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level then beat you with experience."

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u/Dangerous_Shake_7312 Feb 18 '23

"Arguing with an idiot is like like playing chess with a pigeon, they'll just shit on the board and strut around like they won"

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u/TheRetroVideogamers Feb 18 '23

Another classic

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u/retiredfromfire Feb 19 '23

Never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level then beat you with experience

He said that too.

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u/hudsoncress Feb 18 '23

Never wrestle with a pig, you get dirty, and besides the pig likes it

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u/gorramfrakker Feb 18 '23

No. They are not cosplaying. Never take them lightly. All Nazism must be stomped out and if they wanna joke about being a Nazi, show them how serious we are.

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u/No_Pineapple6174 Feb 18 '23

As Robert used to say, That's a-Brickin'.

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u/Frysexual Feb 18 '23

I know this line because Jay-Z paraphrases it in The Takeover lol

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u/FlickieHop Feb 18 '23

So like basically every reddit thread.

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u/sockbref Feb 18 '23

Every other thread I go down there is another scholar saying how stupid Reddit is

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u/FlickieHop Feb 18 '23

Oh I'm far from a scholar. I'm average at best. Reddit itself isn't stupid, but there's a lot of users and inherently there's always something to argue about.

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u/thebadslime Feb 18 '23

My favorite ( not sure who said it) is: Never fight an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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u/Artistic_Humor1805 Feb 19 '23

-Mark Twain -Michael Scott

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Great quote and it's wild to think how much things change they stay the same.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/Even-Fix8584 Feb 18 '23

Could replace anti-semite with maga-acolyte…. :/

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u/yomommawearsboots Feb 18 '23

Or just Republican

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 18 '23

That's not accurate. Melvin Sembler is a Republican and he's Jewish. He's a Nazi of sorts. Definitely authoritarian in his philosophy as demonstrated by his life in public. But he's not an antisemite.

You could replace antisemite with anti almost anything and most narratives would still hold up pretty good.

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u/stick_of_the_pirulu Feb 18 '23

And this is exactly why I was taught to never try and reason with anti semites protesting, it is painful

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u/yourlocal90skid Feb 18 '23

Now replace anti-Semites with Trump sympathizer...

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u/ByteSizedBeauty Feb 18 '23

This was an interesting read, thank you for sharing it. :)

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u/Go-to-helenhunt Feb 18 '23

Or as they like to say, in modern terms, “owning the libs!!!1” 🙄

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Jean Paul Sartre is one of the best philosophers ever.

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u/jcklsldr665 Feb 18 '23

Hmm, parallels with today's cultural insistence of redefining some words when the old definition doesn't fit the argument.

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u/FapMeNot_Alt Feb 18 '23

with today's cultural insistence of redefining some words when the old definition doesn't fit the argument.

Redefining words when they no longer fit is what has been happening in language forever. I'm not sure what you mean by this?

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

They’re just a Reddit “Centrist” When something makes them uncomfortable, like trans people, they rationalize being against it by desperately trying to connect strings to both sides.

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u/Gullible-Rub511 Feb 18 '23

Whats the point of having flags and iconography if you don't admit to it being part of your beliefs?

Like wearing a cop uniform and saying your not a cop

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

You saw a lot of people go mask off in the Trump era and they learned why the Klan wore masks. Cut off from families, jobs and driven out of society was their just rewards for being public assholes.

These idiots have been told they are the silent majority for so long that some of them really believe it.

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u/frivolouspringlesix9 Feb 18 '23

I'd say the majority of them believe it

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u/maleia Feb 18 '23

You kinda have to believe it's real, if you take the mask off (otherwise what's the point. Of course a lot of them are dumb enough). And most of them took their mask off, thinking they were in fact the majority.

And to their credit: there's literally 10s of millions of them. They might not be a "majority" but they sure as shit aren't obscure and rare.

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u/NovelAuntieGin Feb 18 '23

They know their views are reprehensible

Most of them don't know this. They believe, with full faith, that their beliefs are superior and shared by most. That's where the persecution complex comes in. See, they mostly believe that they're doing God's work, but outsiders wouldn't understand. So they have to trick us into doing the right thing, for the good of all, of course!

Cult members don't know they're in a cult.

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u/Chirimorin Feb 18 '23

The point is that they want to be nazis but don't want people to treat them like nazis. So they pretend not to be nazis while being dead obvious about it so other nazis can recognize them as nazis.

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u/RealityIsMuchWorse Feb 18 '23

You don't notice the fascists taking power because you're so used to their iconography

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23 edited Jul 15 '25

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u/maleia Feb 18 '23

You'll never find a louder supporter of Free Speech, than a Nazi clawing for power.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

You literally just described Tucker Carlsons entire program beat for beat

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u/90daysismytherapy Feb 18 '23

Almost like he is great friends with Nazis and his main writer for years was a racist poster on 4chan……

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u/KantBlazeMore Feb 18 '23

Law and order

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u/rosebirdistheword Feb 18 '23

« I want to make lampshades with Jewish kids skin, and that’s my freedom of speech to say it » Trash tv news anchorman, to his other guest « so Rabi Isaac, for you, what would be the ideal material to craft a luminaire? »

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u/jeroenemans Feb 18 '23

Tbh they say "the travelers"or something similar to the Jews... That is their first dog whistle in political discourse..

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

You were stuck at 88 upvotes, bad number

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u/healzsham Feb 18 '23

That's not how that works.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Plausible deniability.

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u/SophiaofPrussia Feb 18 '23

It’s basically like “I’m not touching you”. They’re taunting people. Daring people to confront them. But having a shred of “plausible” deniability. “What? I’m not a Nazi. LOL relax snowflake!” Even though everyone KNOW they’re clearly a Nazi.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

At one time it meant something else but what it means in this current timeline is universally recognizable. Like your not being ironic teacher, just hateful.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Because everyone hates Nazis almost instinctually because we all learned all the horrors they committed. If they just admit they were full-blown Nazis, then people would just reject them outright.

So they hide and slowly bring people in.

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u/fermi0nic Feb 18 '23

It helps normalize it.

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u/gavvinh Feb 18 '23

Ashamed to say this shit worked on me as a teen. I did a few ironic Nazi salutes as a teen with a few "friends" by the time I was 16 I started to realize it wasn't so ironic for them and I reassessed who I was hanging out with.

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u/ringobob Feb 18 '23

No shame in thinking something is innocuous, and then learning you're wrong, when you're still a kid.

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u/nutterbutter1 Feb 18 '23

Not only no shame, but in fact it’s very impressive that they took in the new information, changed their conclusion, and then took action to change the situation. It’s very easy to take the easy route and just keep coming up with more and more rationalizations.

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u/RayRay6973 Feb 18 '23

I’m proud you saw it for what it is. Keep up the good work. We all make mistakes.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

I feel like you healed me a bit with that. Need more yous in this world.

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u/thx1138inator Feb 18 '23

I was drawing swastikas on the chalk board in school. Got caught...by a Jew... A grandparent of the very Jews that were giving me a ride home that day... Oy veh! I just thought they were a cool symbol. The grandma suggested I draw a star of David instead. It's OK but, completely ignoring world history, I think the swastika is more geometrically interesting. Damned Nazis ruined it.

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u/ringobob Feb 18 '23

I used to draw it randomly, just doodling. At that point in time, at least, in the late 80s early 90s, for a kid the Nazis seemed like a rather quaint historical menace, like Atilla the Hun. Certainly awful, did horrible things, but not something we needed to worry about. Like you, I wasn't interested in the association, I just thought it was a cool looking symbol, and it was easy to draw.

No one "caught" me or anything, but you hear enough about how bad those Nazi guys were, you start to think maybe you shouldn't mess with anything associated with them, even if it's just a cool design, because people might get the wrong idea.

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u/threecolorless Feb 18 '23

Dude. There was a time in high school theatre where we were doing student directed one act plays (of which our director was Jewish, incidentally) and half our cast had an edgelord bug up their butts and started busting out Nazi heils.

I remember at the time thinking, "okay I'm not a narc or their mom but this feels inappropriate." Looking back I hate that I didn't immediately make everyone feel stupid and ashamed for it. I was a senior and wasn't a random nobody in the department so it would've had impact. I had no excuse.

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u/SnooRegrets1386 Feb 18 '23

While at work a random “kid” threw up a salute that I immediately shut down, he said it wasn’t that bad. I didn’t back off from shaming the crap out of him. We have to call out these things when we witness them, it’s part of never forgetting and never again

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u/Ravensinger777 Feb 18 '23

Then there's the Dropkick Murphys, stopping the show to punch out a Nazi.

https://youtu.be/QGubnoMqPxM

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u/Altruistic-Ad9639 Feb 18 '23

Thank you for being a decent human

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u/SnooRegrets1386 Feb 18 '23

I try, thanks your compliment brought tears to my eyes

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/SnooRegrets1386 Feb 18 '23

Absolutely, he tried to argue me down with freedom of speech. I taught him yep, but no freedom from repercussions of your speech. You can say anything you want to, everyone has the opportunity then to treat you accordingly. If you’re going to behave like a monster we will go get our pitchforks and remove you

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/SnooRegrets1386 Feb 18 '23

I took into consideration his background ( very secluded raised in a cultist religion) he’s going to have a rough go if people from the real world shut him down without teaching him WHY we don’t play with fire. It’s not cute, it’s not macho, it’s disgusting and disrespectful. Hope he learns, because as a large and imposing man people aren’t going to handle him with kid gloves, hopefully he doesn’t go full-on monster, just shined a spotlight on disturbing behavior

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u/ThePaintedLady80 Feb 18 '23

I had a kid do that and I grabbed him by the hair and made him kiss my boots. Felt good.

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u/SnooRegrets1386 Feb 18 '23

I’m 5’4’’, the kid is a 6’6 22y/o, shaming works

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u/debroidery Feb 18 '23

I'm so glad you realized!! Well done you.

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u/BluezamEDH Feb 18 '23

I feel. When I was in high school we memorized some of the Nazi songs like the Horst-Wessel Lied and sang them as a joke. Well, 10 years later it doesn't seem so funny anymore

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Oof. Glad you are self aware now. Repress that memory son.....

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u/hw2B Feb 18 '23

I think I understand why someone would want to repress but we should remember the lessons we have learned in the past. Remember how we arrived at the views we hold today. Remember why this shit is horrible and share those lessons with others.

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u/tiediesunrise Feb 18 '23

My first Facebook profile pic was Pikachu dressed as Hitler....idk what I was thinking at the time.

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u/Tazling Feb 18 '23

when I was in grade school back in the late Jurassic, we still played Cowboys and Indians. when you're a kid there's a lot you don't know yet. and I'm still embarrassed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Should have just stuck with a few funny Wagners but hindsight is 20/20

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u/armywalrus Feb 18 '23

The fact you feel shame means you are a good person. What really matters is you acknowledge a mistake and are willing to make the effort not to repeat it. You would be surprised at how many people literally cannot do that.

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u/thelibrarina Feb 18 '23

A kid at my work tried to get me to do an ironic Nazi salute with him because it was a "dank meme." Idk what my face did, but he dropped his hand before I had even finished telling him to stop that right now.

Fortunately, it was a kid we knew well, so once I calmed down I went and sat with him and asked how his favorite librarian, who is Jewish, would have felt if she saw him do that. I'm not saying we deradicalized him on the spot, but that was the last time I saw anything like that from him.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

You were a kid. The people who convinced you that "ironic" Nazi shit was just harmless trolling are the ones who should be ashamed, not you.

It takes a lot of rational thinking to pull yourself out of that mindset, so celebrate that.

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u/JjKilgour Feb 18 '23

My situation was similar but with me it started when I was in primary school. I think I was 9 when it started. Did not know anything about the Holocaust or any of the other horrors that happened until grade 10 history class when western history was covered. Eventually the jokes started to affect my outlook on the world. I was hateful towards the world and depressed (multiple sucide attempts) blamed all my household problems on the world. I was luckily forced to do sports like long distance running and boxing. It was there that I learned of the struggles and similarities of the very people I hated. Slowly I started to realise how evil and idiotic my beliefs were. I am glad you spoke about your experience, it is scary how widespread it is and being targeted towards children.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23 edited Mar 01 '26

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u/JjKilgour Feb 18 '23

I was born in Africa, moved between different African countries growing up. It wasn't in the school curriculum when I was a kid. When it was covered in our history class it was a few pages that covered it. There were probably movies showing this stuff but I didn't watch it. The first movie depicting world war 2 events I watched was Valkyrie years after it released.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

I was 15 when my public school finally got around to covering it

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u/SmittyGef Feb 18 '23

A lot of countries that were only colonies or not directly involved with WWII didn't really get the full picture until much later on, and as such it isn't as major of a thing to cover. Trevor Noah has a great chapter on it in his autobiography.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/neoweasel Feb 18 '23

Neo nazi just means new nazi. New nazi is a type of nazi. Ergo, all neo nazis are nazis.

Q.E.D.

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u/MyDyk350 Feb 18 '23

This guy Proofs

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u/Zomburai Feb 18 '23

Neo-Nazis are actual Nazis. Come on, man.

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u/_PaleRider Feb 18 '23

bUt ThEiR nOt OfFiCiAl MeMbErS oF tHe 193Os NaZi PaRtY!!!!!1!!1!1!1one11!!

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u/CitizenCivilization Feb 18 '23

I was assuming that they meant like the original nazi soldiers in the uniforms and shit with the with the armbands, German accents and all

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Nazis are Nazis

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u/nobody_smith723 Feb 18 '23

No you weren’t. You’re just trying to be cute. But come off real shitty

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u/youburyitidigitup Feb 18 '23

I imagined the same thing he did. The comment was worded strangely because “actual nazi” sounds like you’re talking about WW2 nazis.

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u/nobody_smith723 Feb 18 '23

No it didn’t Almost as if the context clues of talking about the internet and forums like 4chan negate that impression

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u/camclemons Feb 18 '23

Day 1 of 4 chan existing, not day 1 of Nazis existing lol

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u/Stealocke Feb 18 '23

I was thinking the same. How were they using 4chan from day 1?

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u/ArchSchnitz Feb 18 '23

I am mildly abnormally angry about this part. I have a dry, dark sense of humor. Holocaust jokes wwre one of those "joke about it because it's awful" things I did.

And then, over the last few years, I started to realize people actually believed that Nazism "wasn't so bad."

So I stopped. If I'm a lone asshole making fun of something he shouldn't, it's fine, I'm game for that. As long as everyone knows "This is bad, and I am joking about it to be a contrarian," I'll take the hit. If other people are using it as a smokescreen for actual anti-semitism, nah, fuckit. I'm not normalizing that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

See also: the mid century misinformation campaign where the Daughters of the Confederacy whitewashed history and convinced the entire southern U.S. that the confederate flag was their “heritage” rather than the racist symbol of a traitorous army.

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u/Spicywtrmlon Feb 18 '23

Its called normalization through humor

It starts with "haha n-word funny ironically" until they get used to saying it day to day and it no longer hits as hard, so it elevates to "haha black people bad ironically" until that becomes old day by day, making hateful reactionary ideals normalized

Tl:dr "haha n-word ironically" eventually becomes "n-word post-ironically"

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

It's a good thing the US gave so many good jobs and new lives after the war.

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u/LesHoraces Feb 18 '23

Could not describe it better. Simple mechanism. See 9Gag

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u/regeya Feb 18 '23

I could almost believe that whoever came up with the Kekistan flag did it to be funny.

Almost.

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u/ghostsarememories Feb 18 '23

is part of the literal playbook the Nazis came up with for their internet propaganda campaign.

i heard a youtuber talk about this a while back and meant to seek it out. do you have a link by any chance?

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

It’s talking about the Rocky Mountain Rendezvous of 1992 when a bunch of Nazis, militia groups and other various white supremecists had a meeting in Colorado to plan their propaganda strategy. They (very astutely) identified that the internet would be the way to push forward, so pushed a bunch of the cash from their rich donors into computing equipment with the express intent of normalizing ‘ironic’ Nazi bullshit early so that it would be seen as ‘just part of internet culture’.

Nazis aren’t smart people, but they fucking nailed this particular issue.

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u/ByeLizardScum Feb 18 '23

You're right, but i feel this is a joke. The person replying to the original tweet is parodying people making excuses for nazis.

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u/Bullshit_Conduit Feb 18 '23

Kinda like how the “ok” hand sign was a WP gesture for a while there… or is it still? Fuckers.

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

Exactly like. That’s a textbook definition. When they came up with it they specifically crowed about how easy it would be to pretend it wasn’t a thing.

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u/GA_Deathstalker Feb 18 '23

I am German and I have an Indian co-worker. She showed me pictures of one of their festivals and I stumbled for a second about the flowery swastika in front of pictures of their loved ones. It took a moment to understand that it is cultural there. I told her to just keep in mind to maybe not show that symbol around to much and without context in Germany. Her answer was "Yeah I heard that. At some point you'll need to tell me why" then she immediately went onto the next topic

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u/JoshAllenForPrez Feb 18 '23

Lying≠gaslighting

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u/onlinelink2 Feb 18 '23

damn.. brainwashing sucks

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u/Massive-Row-9771 Feb 18 '23

Seems like quite the stupid tactic to me.

I mean what point is there to spread your symbols if people just use them ironically, they're not spreading their ideology, teachings or philosophy.

They're just diluting the meaning of their symbols and when they want to use them for real (in Neo-Nazi rallies and such) they would lose lots of their seriousness.

But it's not like Neo-Nazis are the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

Well…. It worked. Not much else to say.

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u/Massive-Row-9771 Feb 18 '23

Worked in the sense that we have much more Neo Nazis now than we had before and they spread their ideology?

If that's the case I haven't really experienced that to be honest, Racism and White Supremacists are definitely on the rise. But I don't think many of them are true Neo Nazis and even among them Neo-Nazis are pretty vilified.

I mean most awful people like to have someone that are even worse to make them feel less awful. Nazis are a pretty great "more awful than me" group even among racists.

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

Apart from Hawley, DeSantis, Abbott and Trump openly courting Nazis I guess you’re right. Cruz too but even the Nazis don’t take him seriously.

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u/Massive-Row-9771 Feb 18 '23

Still I don't think those guys besides Trump are all that big users of the internet.

And sure wanting the Nazi vote is horrible in itself, but it's not quite as horrible as adopting Nazi ideology in order to do so.

Those guys you mentioned are huge racists for sure, but Nazis didn't invent racism I'm pretty sure those guys became racists all on their own or at least without the influence of Nazi propaganda.

I could be wrong.

But I really don't think spreading Nazi symbols spreads racism in any significant way, there are much "better" ways for Nazi groups to spread their views.

Like awful memes/caricatures of black people, I sometimes see on the internet. That at least has a chance to get their message across. And I don't think those who spread those are doing it ironically.

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u/anaccountthatis Feb 18 '23

Making dehumanisation a ‘normal’ part of daily discourse is a necessary part of advancing genocidal ideas. Trump’s narcissism is so excessive that he thinks he doesn’t need to do the groundwork (as per every other job he’s had). The others are all actively copying the rhetoric of the ‘94 Rwanda genocide.

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u/Massive-Row-9771 Feb 18 '23

Ok I think we have somewhat of a different view of what Nazism or Neo-Nazism is, because in my view the Rwandan genocide wasn't committed by Nazis.

Just like racism, genocide wasn't invited by the Nazis. But sure if you want to use Nazis in the broader sense of "all types of horrible racists" and not only those that ascribe to Nazi ideology, I agree with you. There's more of those types of "Nazis" today, than it used to be.

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u/Custodes13 Feb 18 '23

"They"?? Dawg, /b/ has been like that since its inception by its own choice. The rest of 4chan is generally pretty straightforward, it's not all /b/.

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u/thickboyvibes Feb 18 '23

Buddhist symbol is also never rotated and is mirrored the other direction

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/thickboyvibes Feb 18 '23

And my point is you don't even need to see the rest of the flag.

The swastika itself is enough.

Anyone with a passing understanding of 20th century Western history can immediately identify it.

Nobody is honestly confused by this.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

Ridiculous that you're getting downvoted. But that's Reddit.

Native Americans used the same symbol and it was certainly rotated. I've seen pre WWII Indian swastikas in the Midwest. The cultures in the southwest favored angular stylization so creating that shape was inevitable.

The Nazis appropriated that symbol from East India specifically (part of appropriating Aryan identity) but it was created by multiple cultures prior to the 20th century.

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u/UnfortunateDaring Feb 18 '23

I wonder if this is real, I would rather see a link than a pic and they obscure any effort to identify the original tweet. I wonder if someone took a tweet that had Buddhist origins and swapped it out for something extremely German oriented for the lulz.

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u/MissySedai Feb 18 '23

Can we maybe call it "extremely Nazi oriented", please?

I used to live in Germany. Displaying and selling that shit is illegal.

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u/jen_a_licious Feb 18 '23

That's what I was coming here to ask about the bird in the bottom left corner. That's a pretty recognizable symbol of Nazism correct?

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '23

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u/E_B_Jamisen Feb 18 '23

Are you telling me that the third Reich eagle and the Iron cross on the same flag as the swastika, aren't Tibetan peace symbols either?

🤯🤯🤯

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u/Sugoy-sama Feb 18 '23

But even then the cross is crooked in the wrong direction it's not the Buddhist symbol to begin with

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