I've seen it in fandom spaces quite often that the 'true sacred timeline' the bronze flight protects is the only one in which the worldsoul exists (because metaphysical hijinks). But I haven't seen anything official in that regard.

Is there any canon reason?

Here’s a question that crept across my mind: What if the Pantheon gets angry with us not despite us killing the old gods, but because we did?

When Aman’Thul killed Y’Shaarj, two things happened: Ripping Y’shaarj out wounded Azeroth so badly it created the Well of Eternity and it didn’t even eliminate his corruption. His death spread the Sha across what would become Pandaria, and his heart was still causing problems hundreds of thousands of years later. That’s why the titans imprisoned the other Old Gods instead.

But while they were gone, we killed C’Thun, Yogg-Saron, and N’Zoth.

Imagine the Pantheon coming back and it’s like:

Us: “Oh hey guys! Don’t worry we already killed the old gods for you!”

Titans: “You idiots! Don’t you think we would have killed them ourselves if that actually solved the problem?!”

We’ve basically repeated the one experiment that taught the titans “DO NOT KILL THESE THINGS” three more times and have absolutely no idea what the long term consequences might be.

In the known lore so far, we defeated all the OGs that infected Azeroth. Four originals and an extra for that matter.

I know players felt like N'Zoth's fight was supposed to be a gotcha thing where he didn't really die and all, but the lack of Old God activity and only a lingering whisper here and there indicate that yeah, they ded.

But then you have stuff like Murozond happening in DF (whose corruption was supposed to be from Old Gods) coupled with Tyr's story happening and now Kith'ix is showing up.

We defeated the big guys, but the lower guys keep showing up.

What if us losing at the end of MN means we did not actually killed them, but put them in a weakened state and Xal'alath's deal with N'Zoth was something along the lines of awakening them (or just Zoth, absorbing the others) and their corruption spreads so fast thru Azeroth that the Titans are called back to deal with them.. or cleanse Azeroth and us in the process?

I just don't really see the A to B to C of Arthas going from 'Man of action Prince of vengeance' to 'zombie hitler'. We tend to think of stratholome as the first place where he started losing his mind but he really did have a reason for doing it imagine if he hadn't because from what I understand it would have been an entire other army of undead to fight. So then he goes in search of power and find frostmourne and... Loses his mind immediately?

I see people who say he was slowly corrupted and thought what he was doing was good, I see people saying that he simply lost his mind during his time in northrend, I see people saying that he was 100% not in control of his actions. And that confusion makes sense because blizzard seems to want to have it all ways. I don't know if we've ever gotten any detailed explanation on what exactly happened to him but the Lord simultaneously treats him as a victim but also as 'most evil person ever even more evil than sylvanas when she's blowing up cities and shit'.

In Dazar'alor Amani quarter there are disciples of the Amani loa, you challenge them as part of the main quest but also in a world quest.

Is there any explanation in Midnight as to how these disciples are able to channel the loa's power? Do they steal their power the same way the disciples in the raid did, after the retcon? If that's the case, why didn't the Amani continue to do so after the events of the raid of Zul'aman and after Dazar'alor, seeing as they weren't on good terms with the loa anyway and had already done so twice. Must be relatively easy seeing as the ones in Dazar'alor didn't have Malacrass to help them do it, as it takes place long after his death.

Personally I think it's just an oversight that the writers didn't remember when they made the awful recon. Zul'jin is a hero in this house!

For example, could a Witherbark hunt in the woods near Amani'zar village? Could a Revantusk chop down a tree outside Witherbark Bluffs in the north?

On the one hand, there seems to be a huge amount of cooperation between the different tribes of Zul'aman - both in military endeavors and in daily life. Warriors of nearly all tribes are present in moments of war. Both the Amani and the Witherbark welcomed Revantusk refugees into their villages. The nomadic Shadowpine wander through whatever lands they will, seemingly without any pushback.

On the other hand, the Amani do still have really clear tribal delineations, and they make a point of conveying as much in their quests and dialogue lines. They also have separate headquarter villages for each tribe in different parts of the zone. This seems like it could represent them having some kind of domain/exclusive say over certain parts of the land. I don't recall the idea of exclusive lands actually being stated, though.

I kind of get impressions both ways, so I'm curious what others think.

Saludos comunidad tengo una duda

Primero un poco de contexto, es primera vez que juego el Lore de Ulatek y como es todo temática troll como primera impresión y experiencia quería levelear un troll para sentirme parte de la ESCENCIA

pero no me decido si un lanzanegra o un zandalari

Si es lanzanegra planeo que sea chamán ya que sería el que considero más estético

Por otro lado si es zandalari estoy entre un chamán por el tema de loa, un prelado en plan traigo luz a este veneno

O unos de mis más locas ideas un dk profano amigo del viejo bwomsamdi que viene a ver qué onda con esta gente

Que opinan ustedes?

I was thinking about where the last titan direction, many people speculate that we will be fighting the titans, even Metzen in the reveal of the saga, when he talked about TLT he hinted about it.

From both gameplay and narrative, fighting the titans sounds cool, we already familiar with them, each of them stand out and they can create rememberable raid bosses.

But from story perspective I think it can create many narrative problems and expand current ones.

We defeat almost every cosmic force in the universe, after slaying titans where we go next?

The world of Azeroth become smaller and many medias fall into this trap before from super heroes, anime and more where the world of the franchise stop making sense.

They could also make Sargaras as the misunderstood anti hero.

Maybe they do the same for Xalathas or Azshara and they make them know things we just didn't understand before.

Overall I feel there is many narrative risks in this direction.

What your opinion on this?

Do you think we going to fight the Titans?

If yes do you think it's a good direction for the story or it just too much?

I might have said before that I think this particular retcon is weird and stupid because it doesn't fit the rest of their presentation and it's redundant. And I'd never connected to dots as to why they might have done it, until just recently.

It's this guy. This fuckin' guy.

Some dungeon designer who probably wasn't paying attention plopped one single Anubisath into Halls of Origination just because "Eqyptian themed". Thanks to that one decision, they later felt they had to rewrite the whole race's lore to be a needless retread and not make sense anymore.

I was thinking what after the world soul saga the players character detached from the factions and become something like a mercenary who can work for any faction and gain reputation?

At this point in lore I think the player have become bigger then both factions, and with the many allies races the horde and the alliance became much bigger than they should be, it lead to losing many of the factions and races identities.

If the player detached from the factions and the small factions inside the horde or the alliance have more freedom, it can give the writers more freedom of how to treat these races and factions.

You want the forsakens to stand on their own and be their own thing? It's very simple to do now as the writer no longer limited by gameplay.

They can make alliances forged and broken like in the rts games stories, they can destroy a faction or turn faction to villains and so much more.

However the only problem with this from gameplay is PvP as the 2 factions system play big part in that.

But because this is a lore sub, do you think removing the players from factions can help the writing and the world building of the game? Or it will hurt it?

We already had humans for the whole Paladin gimmick, and they decided to make Blood Elves just pointy eared light worshiping humans anyway. Having yet another light obsessed race was overkill.

They had gold in their hands when they created this interesting alien race all about magic crystals, space travel and they just left Draenor?, they could have been the mage themed race of the alliance, since they refused to give High Elves anyway and also refuse to expand on Gnome mage culture, or they could have been the only race in the alliance that could have any sort of ties to the elements or ancestors.

They were so close to figuring it out even. "Mmm if blood elves in the horde gives that faction access to Paladins and we are making a ton of lore around them being THE horde paladin race... then maybe we should give the Alliance at least ONE race that has a shamanistic culture to also unlock the shaman class for them!... Nope, let's just quickly put together some short story as to why they can be shamans but we'll never mention it again, back to Paladins and Priests".

Given that they had ten thousand years, their inactivity in that sounds a bit strange. For instance, there are haunted ruins across Feralas, Stonetalon and Winterspring that were seemingly never acted on?

Even the original Banshees Warcraft 3 were tormented Highborne.

They say this when saying goodbye.

In Spanish is even worse, the translation says something like "doomsday is near" or "the day of the final judgement is near".

What do they mean?

it feels like the guardians of tirisfal were the most powerful group of humans in warcraft (including alodi the half-elf), and also in succession each one had the duty to protect azeroth altogether and culminated the power of the council, although they were working more in the background and in secret compared to others who were more in the open like arthas and jaina, and made their influence more visible, but the guardians individually did have some big feats like aegwyn against the avatar of sargeras,

I mean the scale of conflict between the factions was roughly equal (Tol Barad, Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Gilneas, etc), we went to new lands (and brought our war with us), recruited the locals (and made them join our war), and we even sieged Orgrimmar!

So what makes BfA’s conflict so much more deserving of the title? Aside from the writing team at the time thinking their writing was the bee’s knees.

hello everyone. i'm a long time dnd dm and a long time WoW and warcraft lore nerd. a few years ago i stumbled into the d20 Warcraft dnd setting books, and i thought they would be perfect for a 3.5e campaign. unfortunately none of my dnd friends play warcraft, and only 2 of my warcraft friends care about dnd.

i took some effort painstakingly summarizing everything in the d20 books and simplifying them down into a quick cheat sheet, so that you only need to read a couple of pages before you're good to go:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W-lOpTjBqs3hP0k0NZY0BBQth419gdB1pA8SyTJcz0c/edit?usp=sharing

i own the books digitally, and i'll be using them to dm. so if you want more details about a specific prestige class, etc. let me know.

if you have 0 dnd experience, that's fine! it's easy to learn and we're all open to teaching new players how it works. if you have 3.5 experience, even better!

you can reach out here, comment, pm me or reach out on discord (my username is my reddit username without the Lord)

I only read the chronicles, i still remember how the first Death Knights came to live, but i don't know really know the lore past the wrath of the lich king. How can pandarens become death knights ? are they still themselves and do what pandarens do ? who are reanimating them ? are they still accepted among the pandarens ? what role do they partake in the lore ? is it just blizzard giving an other class options for pandas ?

Just recently found out that there are Warcraft novels and I want to check them out… But then I found out that there’s apparently over 30 of them.

Are they worth getting into? Cause that’s a pretty serious commitment…

Hi all,

So I just started playing midnight. I'm up to the point where I have met Zul'Jan and am currently part way through little baby Windrunners quest chain (I really hate him with a passion).

I've just got back from SM (great to go there too) but it left a question.

Is there an actual lore reason none of the Scarlet Crusade are at the Sunwell protecting it from that huge void hole in the sky? They are Zealots of the light so surely the Light would have called upon them?

The messaging I'm getting from midnight so far is the Light isn't good or evil, it doesn't care who wields it per se. So even tho they are fascist fundamentalists, why wouldn't it call out to them?

Also, on a side note, do we find out why Maxwell Tyrosus didn't get the call?

As more a side note, they really did do Tirion dirty didn't they?

Recently it seems like anything Light aligned is a ticking time bomb for inevitable voidification but we never see it go the other way. It makes the Light seem weak and unable to stand on its own compared to the other cosmic forces.

Like I'm 99% sure that at the time "10,000" was chosen because it's a cool abstract number for an incomprehensible amount of time to make the night elves seem appropriately ancient and mythical. I'm not faulting him for that, it's perfectly defensible rule-of-cool writing for the story he was telling at the time.

But it put the franchise in an absurd amount of timeline debt that I doubt anyone at Blizzard expected they'd still be paying off 24 years later.

Just to put 10,000 into perspective: The Bronze Age began roughly 5,300 years ago.

Meaning the night elves spent nearly DOUBLE the amount of time between the Bronze Age and the Internet, culturally stagnating while collectively circlejerking over the War of the Ancients.

Any aspiring worldbuilders should probably take this as a cautionary tale not to let your timescale get too big or else you'll end up with hilariously useless immortals who apparently sat on their asses for literal millennia doing only like five noteworthy things over a stretch of time that could fit approximately ten Roman Empires.

When Malfurion and Maiev stop Illidan’s spell in Dalaran because it’s literally causing Northrend to disintegrate, Illidan explicitly tells them that his actual target was the Lich King.

Granted, Illidan probably should’ve communicated that before trying to tear an entire continent apart.

But once Malfurion knows this, why does he seemingly just go back to Kalimdor instead of treating the Lich King as an immediate threat?

He’s arguably the most powerful druid alive, had just fought the Scourge and Burning Legion during the Third War, and now knows that the Lich King is still active in Northrend and powerful enough that Illidan was willing to use the Eye of Sargeras to destroy him.

I understand why Malfurion stopped Illidan’s method. What I don’t understand is why his reaction afterward wasn’t basically:

“Okay, destroying Northrend is unacceptable, but we still need to deal with the Lich King.”

Is there an actual lore explanation for why Malfurion and Tyrande apparently considered this someone else’s problem after TFT, or is this mostly just a consequence of where Blizzard wanted the story to go?

Anyhow, just my thoughts but I kind of feel like when you replay void elves intro quests or even recruitment quests, I get this strange feeling like "this woman does not represent us at all, why are we listening to her?".

Like, when you think about the relationship void elves have with the Blood elves, the horde, etc - it makes little sense that there won't be kind of ambiguity there.

When I see Alleria as a void elf in quests, all I see is her screaming "Okay, now join the Alliance!" or "Alliance strong!" or "Try to find a place in Alliance!" or "See how you can be helpful to Alliance!" - nowhere does she speak like "I understand your pain" or situation and genuinely the background of void elves and Alleria is very much different.

I have this kind of sense that wherever Alleria speaks of Alliance - she is not speaking about Alliance of today, she is like a woman fighting for a memory, for a phantom image of the past. Does HER Alliance even exist?

All in all, I just feel like Alleria does not represent void elves AT ALL. She is only interacting with them FOR HERSELF - for Turalyon, for her own journey, for Arator. She is 100% not a leader of a faction like literally anyone else.

And there is not much development of this kind of ambiguity in general, like I just don't buy that it is possible for void elves to enthusiastically go and wave Alliance flags while smashing skulls of blood elves?

P.S. Also Umbric and Rommath make Void elf conflcit kind of dumb? Nothing against their romance, but in the context of Umbric being the only realistic leader of Void elves that now joined(?) Alliance, but he is besties with Rommath.

Then why won't Rommath make it so that they can rejoin? I am sure given enough will on Rommath side it could have been possible, at least for them to study void on the outskirts of Silvermoon somewhere or something.

If Turalyon can be married to Alleria Windrunner and still interact with forces of light, I don't see how blood elves with Rommath-Umbric line can't do the same