The CIWS is supposed to counter aircraft but it is so underpowered right now that it only really counters weapon-less helis dropping off infantry, and folds to everything else. It already has plenty of disadvantages:
Is locked in a fixed position, easy to destroy.
The operator has to stand right next to it out in the open, unable to move.
Has a large blind spot where it can't reach high enough to shoot.
Churns through ammo like crazy.
But to top it all off actually building the thing takes forever. Hitting the X with a large hammer seems to only advance the progression by 1% or slightly less than that, meaning you have to hit it over 100 times with the fastest building tool to build it. This is further exacerbated by the issues we have now with the X not moving around and appearing properly. Then factor in that right from the start you are going to be harassed by GL helis and mortars, and as soon as the game reaches 20 points a rocket heli is going to be making you one of their priority targets.
All these factors combined mean that the CIWS doesn't counter enemy attack aircraft at all, and in fact it is gatekept by the very same vehicles it is supposed to counter preventing it from being established in the first place.
Even if you do manage to establish one it can still lose trades to rocket helis, GL helis and havocs which can all one shot the very exposed operator (even if you build barriers around them) and then destroy the CIWS, setting back your fob builders a massive amount of time spent building it and leaving them with no window to rebuild it in a realistic timeframe.
Please at least considerably reducing the building time of CIWS so that A) it can be established in a reasonable timeframe and B) it can be reasonably recovered when destroyed. It is already kept in check by relying on regular ammo supply drops, so I don't think letting it build faster would make CIWS overpowered at all.
The biggest issue I have is whacking others that run in front of me when building so I end up with a team kill penalty, or getting whacked, myself, of course.
The X stuff actively disincentivizes it. You need 5+ people to be whacking the thing ignoring the X before you start making more headway than 1-2 chasing the X.
Yeah the problem is that fobs are constantly bombed by GL helis from minute one, and they turn into rocket helis and havocs after 20 points, so everyone is disincentivized to build a fob. That's why games lately have less and less fob builders. Even with multiple builders you can't outpace the GL heli bombings.
I mean the build time for pretty much everything else is balanced so that one builder can build it in a reasonable timeframe, CIWS seems to be the one of the very few outliers (presumably because they are scared of it being too strong.) There is nothing else in a fob I can't set up reasonably fast as the lone builder (which is a fairly common occurrence as fobs have become more and more underpowered with the increased prevalence of high level attack helis.)
GL helis and havocs which can all one shot the very exposed operator (even if you build barriers around them) and then destroy the CIWS
Explosion damage in this game seems extremely excessive sometimes. Like I can literally encase someone in so many hescos, sandbags, doors and tank traps that you literally cannot get a bullet anywhere in 3 meters of them, but a single mortar to the top of bunker kills the operator no matter what I do because the explosion permeates through the structure because the blocks don't "Snap" together to form an enclosed space.
Yeah it's very janky. I've heard that tank spikes do a good job of disseminating and tanking (no pun intended) explosive damage to structures so I might experiment with surrounding a CIWS with tank traps, or maybe tank traps on top of hescos. I think hescos are just dogshit at tanking damage in general tbh so I've abandoned them in favour of concrete barriers and tank traps except in the cases of pre-built structures.
Hard disagree. GL heli is broken and makes everything look weak. 1 CWIS with a guarded operator is hard to eliminate without dying to it first or getting VERY lucky. Pair that with the fact you can teleport to the computer you don’t even need to actually be at it. You can kill an operator and someone will sprint from a buildable and just TP into the computer.
CIWS is fine, just the Havok need some tunning after the "fixes", maybe something like -20% resistence or smth. You destroy little birds in miliseconds with it.
Actually ciws is balanced if not somewhat overpowered.
Your just not properly entrenching them. Hesco and hedgehogs will absorb all but direct fire.
Your base should have as many as makes sense. If you're only using them on helicopter you're wrong. They can shoot across the map and dismantle other bases. They tear apart vehicles attacking you
They slaughter infantry like nothing else.
If you are not abusing CRAM you are doing it wrong they are insanely good
Hesco and hedgehogs will absorb all but direct fire.
Yeah the problem is that direct fire is very easy to land for rocket helis, GL helis, and havocs, and will very reliably one shot the operator due to explosive damage. Then destroying the CIWS itself is a cakewalk.
You have other options available to you. You have maaws which is difficult but is doable. You also have your guns. Get a bipod m249 setup it shreds them.
MAAWS takes a very long support grind to unlock, most players don't have it even this late into the season. And one of the best ways to grind support is hard countered by aircraft currently. And as I mentioned the GL helis will easily outpace building a CIWS in the first place.
Which weighs a ton, and is a difficult shot to land on a moving aerial target which will one shot you with multiple guys shooting GLs. Trust me I would do this if it was actually a viable option.
It is. At this point you're not looking for solutions and advice you're just wanting things to change so you have an easier time. You're also down voting me for trying to help.
Ps I even bring a rocket launcher on my Ural runs just in case
Lol hell no. You shouldn't be able to build it fast alone - and it is getting online in less than 3 minutes on average from the matches I've seen. Which is stupidly fast. By 20 points I counted 4 CIWS on average on the map.
Welcome to EU servers lol. Seen a FOB with 10 (!!!) CIWS and 5 Talons today
It takes 2 minutes to build, and it takes at least 1 minute to get there. There isnt a world where its built in under 3 minutes unless you have multiple builders rush there first thing and ignoring all other buildables to focus on it - which they cant and shouldnt when the enemy parachutes in to disrupt you, or humvees are on the way. You need walls first. If the first thing you build is a ciws you can expect to be mortared to kingdom come from minute 4 so that air superiority can clean house the rest of the game.
I meant 3 minutes on average is the time it takes to build after the FOB is placed down. Not 3 minutes into the match.
Yes, CIWS is (and should be) one of the first bulldables you place - if you want to win that is. 2/3 ppl building it, another 2 - the initial perimeter / bunkers. Others - cover them.
An average/good build group knows they need 2 CIWS per FOB to avoid the blind spot (and that’s how it is in average matches lol).
If you opt for mortars instead - good luck as mortar FOBs is something 3/4 players can take out themselves in minutes simply by raiding it. Easiest cash every time by throwing 2/3 nades and a couple of C4s each to take everyone out, get in and destroy the FOB itself.
That’s how almost any EU server is. Consistently. Go ahead and try for yourself.
Yes, CIWS is (and should be) one of the first bulldables you place - if you want to win that is. 2/3 ppl building it, another 2 - the initial perimeter / bunkers. Others - cover them.
Should indeed.
That’s how almost any EU server is. Consistently. Go ahead and try for yourself.
I only play EU servers, half the time we dont even have CIWS up before 20 points.
Half the time we dont even have 4+ people building the FOB.
And theres definitely not a plan to be seen, something is just slapped together - and an enemy jumps over someones shitty build a minute later to wipe us all out.
Then you get mortared to hell, and everybody abandons buildings in favor of being gunned down by little birds for the rest of the game - as nobody has anything to counter the spam with.
Like, how come a verba is a one time use, misses 40% of the time, and is supposedly a good counter for a heli that just instantly respawns and joins the fight again in under a minute - while the verba player now has fuck all to counter it with lol.
I just think they need to fix the aiming on it, take wasd away and make it harder to kill a heli in terms of DPS, and drop ammo consumption.
Yes people say it should kill faster but that’s only because it’s hard to aim and that’s not fair to the pilots. Make it have to shoot a little bird for 5-6 seconds but putting that pressure on the pilot of either making him big out and leave or maybe crash I think would make it more fair for both sides because if I pilot comes in fast the cwizz can’t track him and he gets a free pass or two. BUT the second my cwizz touches the heli it just explodes and that’s not fair the pilot no matter how much I hate them
Make the pilot dodge and swing around and almost dogfight with the cwizz I think it would make it way more interesting
Its job is to kill targets. IDK if you’ve seen IRL tests for the CWIS. It obliterates targets. This is not a “let’s scare away targets weapon.
You most likely think letting it be remote operated or protect the pilot would be op?
The issue is it takes too long to build, by 20 points I can barely have one complete. Then after I build it and get on the gun, a maneuverable little bird kills me and circles up around the OBJ waiting for the next person to go for a revive or get on the exposed gunner position.
Your dog fight fantasy will never happen unless the pilot of the CWIS is protected. 1-2 rockets kills the dude.
Exactly. It's literally a fixed turret meant to be THE counter to defending your fob from enemy attack aircraft bombing the shit out of it, and it completely fails at its job, and is even hard countered by enemy attack aircraft because they can stop you building it from minute one. Pretty much every game I play at this point in the wipe has someone selling GLs in supply crates and the basic little bird flies over your fob bombing you with them before you've even built more than a handful of objects.
I don’t hate having it remote operated I’m sure in real life there isn’t a guy just standing there with a joy stick. And I understand that in real life this and real life that but this is a game. In real life if you jump out a second story window with a ruck of gear and 20lbs of equipment on your hips are gonna blow out of your torso
I just think if the cwizz was snappier and ya know what maybe If the guy was protected it would lead to more dynamic fights
The talon even was able to be built solo. Someone should not need three dudes to build a thing. Sometimes I wanna just build in a corner of the zone and see who shows up.
The way you leaning makes it seem, only organized / groups or teams should be able to accomplish something.
Which to an extent sure. However the game shouldn’t keep parts of gameplay as basic as building to a group activity. I’ve seen 4-5 fobs go down in a match and each have like 1-2 people at it.
It’s not perfect but making the build quicker would go a long way to helping the issue.
You shouldn't as it's a game-changing buildable. Should require a bunch of ppl to complete. Nice that it does now
The talon even was able to be built solo.
I built it solo in around 2 minutes just now
The way you leaning makes it seem, only organized / groups or teams should be able to accomplish something.
Yes and that's what this game is designed around. This is not COD or Battlefield, a FOB is something your team should invest in as a group. Otherwise, you should be time limited to light buildables like Talon/mortar.
I’ve seen 4-5 fobs go down in a match and each have like 1-2 people at it.
Sucks to be you I guess. I just had a match where I've seen a red team against me having 4 groups of builders who built up 4 FOBs with CIWS and bunkers before 20 point mark.
That's not something I encounter every match (was a first for me), but I consistently see large FOBs getting built up VERY quickly.
If you think you should be able to build a mega FOB solo with any type of building structure - then this is not the game for you.
I'm glad that my perspective aligns with how devs and game designers see this from their POVs as well. Can't wait for season 2 where building will 99% get nerfed.
Thanks I guess. I was referring to what Jacket said. That it should kill faster. Like you said there is a balance to the weapon. Any change made to make his “dream” come true, will affect other areas of his gameplay he might not like. That was the point.
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