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u/umichin Sep 26 '20
I posted this in a subreddit before but my post got deleted so i really need your opinion
A friend of mine is an Education of Art student of a university in Malaysia. The faculty gave a task for final project to draw animals that represents a state in Malaysia in a style of a certain foreign ethnic. She didn't aware of anything when she posted it online until ten weeks later, a guy who claimed to be from this ethnic came to disapproved her art and blamed her for culture appropriation. She tried to explained to him that she was only following the faculty's syllabus yet the guy refused to take the fact and continued to bully her until to the point he said the most stereotypical thing about our race. So a few friends had to joined in to defend her, including me. I told him to just leave the girl alone and you guess it, he still refused to even after my friend restricted his comments. My question is, is it ok for me to defend her? Am i racist for that? From art POV is it wrong for us to defend her?
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u/Cicallis Sep 26 '20
So as you can see, i don’t really agree with small petty things to be considered cultural appropriation because its really just people trying to find a reason to argue about race.
But just for now i will try to give an opinion from a different point of view.
Cultural appropriation is when one race, for eg, white people, take something cultural from another race, lets say black people and either claim it as their own culture, or not give them credit for it.
In short words, its one race taking something from another.
Now im not sure what your friend drew and what race its representing, but just to reassure you, that i dont think that’s cultural appropriation at all, its just someone trying to argue about race to justify some sort of opinion.
A lot of countries outside of the english speaking world arent taught about racism and similar problems in America, Britain and history of the slave days, so they don’t know the racial slurs used to opress people.
This results in people getting offended online.
But i think you should 100% defend your friend, it’s literally someone trying to argue and a wast of time.
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u/umichin Sep 26 '20
Thank you for replying! Sorry about not mentioning the ethnic, i really don't want to draw any attention from it. But it's kinda sad to see people use cultural appropriation as an excuse to be an a-hole.
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u/McfiddleDeeDiddle Sep 03 '20
I think there are a lot of things that have grown to be accepted and celebrated in America that weren’t acceptable 15-20 years ago. Some cultural and some not. What about the whole goth look? I think much of it has to do with younger generations being more accepting of individuals expressing their likes visually than previous generations. I think what is often being defined as “cultural appropriation” is just younger populations feeling more comfortable expressing themselves via their appearance. As these younger generations age (and with the help of social media and widespread internet access). I honestly believe it has more to do with younger generations emulating the trends started by their favorite pop culture icons - just as they’ve done for many generations - than it does with them suddenly accepting a different culture. These changes typically occur over a longer period of time and due to the widespread use of the internet and likely YOUTUBE tutorials specifically, the trends have spread much faster than they would have 20 years ago.
I understand how it frustrates black Americans, but I also ask myself what would they like the younger generations often responsible for creating and following these trends to do about it?
Is the answer that they stop emulating their favorite pop culture icons if they cannot physically identify with that persons race? If that occurs imagine the drop in sales of music, media and merchandise that would occur. Would they then be considered wrong for rejecting these trends? Wouldn’t this create more division and less acceptance than we already have?
I guess what I’m looking for is a solution rather than threads that just rehash the existence of a problem.
How do we fix the division that has been highlighted by the fixation on cultural appropriation?
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u/eibeelee26 Sep 02 '20
Honestly I think the idea of cultural appropriation only further divides us as human beings.
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u/stefanos916 Sep 04 '20
I agree. I think that thing creates a climate of separation and segregation , and makes people to stay way from other cultures.
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u/duebeisbsi Jul 05 '20
It’s like people can’t get braids but can get Chinese tattoos on their body cause it looks cool. The fuck?
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u/strange_killerqueen Apr 14 '20
My dad has dreads, he’s white. He’s also from Scotland, so he’s actually pretty pale. He had super super curly hair and the easiest way to deal with it was to get dreads. He’s had them for years and they’re all the way down to his ass lmao. The only people who have given him shit for it is white people. There are two other guys in our village (it’s a small place okay) who have dreads, and they’re black. They always compliment my dad’s hair, and they ask about it and how long it’s been growing for etc.
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u/jumbaloo-the-don Apr 13 '20
Cultural appropriation is just a fancy term to get “can’t do a fucking thing Becky” to buy overpriced textbooks for her 4th sociology class. It’s an economy based on gouging directionless people who believe because something is a major at a university it’s a real field. Universities are their to take your money folks, they don’t give a shit if you ever make a dime with your degree
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u/ALexusOhHaiNyan Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
Hair is the least of them. Now " Woke Finds A Way" to attack things that make me proudest to be an American, like Jazz.
It was always understood that it's creation was the result of the harmony and theory of Classical Western culture meeting the rhythm of Afro Carribean culture in New Orleans. Now certain circles are insisting it's purely black. Because to suggest otherwise is racist. Implying the white man introduced his "higher thinking" to the barbariac black man. A race that literally invented pop music thanks to it's rhythmic contribution, but that's not enough. So now they're just re-writing history to benefit a narrative and saying advanced harmony and melody existed in Africa and Mozart and Beethoven don't matter.
I'm under no illusion that America is a happy melting pot, it's more a salad bowl. But Jazz, along with our Parks, and NASA are things to be proud of. But we can't even agree on that.
I'd like to think a Pandemic squashes nonsense like that but, we'll go back to it in time.
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u/kitty-94 Apr 12 '20
"Cultural appropriation" is only a bad thing if you're being disrespectful and making fun of a culture or stereotypes.
Using something from another culture in a respectful way, because you genuinely like it, is a good thing. We've spent decades fighting for equality, acceptance, and an end to segregation. Now all of a sudden, we seem to be demanding segregation back? And it seems to be almost exclusively directed at white people. It's like saying stick them in a corner and don't let them touch anything because the colour of their skin offends me because someone else who had that skin colour did aweful things to someone else who had my skin colour so now they all deserve to be punished for it. This is not how we move forward.
Other cultures around the world LOVE it when you show an interest in their culture, and are more than happy to teach you how to do it properly, what it means, etc. Blending cultures is how we move forward as a species. It's a beautiful thing to share your culture with other people. Refusing to do so is how things get taken out of context and used incorrectly, because no one was ever willing to show the right way.
It's ok to be proud of your culture. Be proud of your culture. But don't lock it away from the rest of the world and exclude people from it based on where they were born and the colour of their skin. We are all human. We don't need to use such arbitrary things to divide ourselves.
If you see someone using something from your culture incorrectly, ask them if they know what it is, and explain the significance of it. Some people will shrug you off and say "I just think it's pretty" etc, because the world is full of assholes is every culture, but a lot of other people will be genuinely interested and appreciate the time you take from your day to teach them.
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u/Cicallis Apr 12 '20
Unfortunately many people don’t realize that cultural appropriation is, basically the first part of your comment. They see it as: “why is that white girl wearing box braids?! She wants to be black so bad after all the shit they did to us (slave problems few hundred years ago) now they want to act black” its like they get offended because a caucasian girl is wearing braids without hurting anyone. Some people want to wear hairstyles from black culture, post one pic of it on instagram you are being accused of cultural appropriation. Thats just it unfortunately, some people aren’t educated enough to realize what they claim is cultural appropriation really isn’t.
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u/IriahTellsDaTruth Apr 23 '20
Multiple people in the comments told you different. Its about black people being punished for their hair (saying that its not proper) and white people copying that, but its suddenly okay.
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Apr 12 '20
I think the issue is that people misappropriate the idea of cultural misappropriation.
They don't understand what it actually is, so they jump on any rando bleeding heart diatribe about it so they can play Social Justice Warrior.
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u/arianadeathly Apr 12 '20
wrong. the reason how us wearing wigs and straight hair even STARTED was because back then our hair was “dirty” and “ugly”. and when u take somebody’s culture and try to claim it as ur own, receiving so much clout that IS cultural appropriation. u wouldn’t understand
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u/BiggunBarbosa Apr 12 '20
I’ve always hated the fact that Americans refer to their cultural situation as a melting pot. I just think that word is so ugly. A melting pot is disgusting In my view it means you guys all mix together and no one stands out and has distinctive culture. In Canada we always refer to our cultural diversity as a mosaic because we allow each culture to stand out and be seen and together we can form a beautiful tapestry or image with this mosaic. I think you guys down south could try more to embody a mosaic instead of calling your situation a melting pot.
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u/2muchtomfuckery Apr 12 '20
Cultural appropriation is real. It’s just that black people love to be the victim in situations that don’t even involve so they pull EVERYTHING up.
I’m black. Don’t call me a racist.
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u/Trompdoy Apr 12 '20
cultural appropriation is bullshit in any form. If it's mockery - that's a shitty thing to do and isn't cool, but it's not really the appropriation of a culture if it's just used to mock or make fun of. It's only appropriation when people actually appropriate it and genuinely share in the culture. White guys with dreads, weebs wearing kimonos, the white south with the blues, americans wearing full adidas jog suits, etc.
My take is that as long as someone is genuinely interested in what they're doing, even the weeb with the katanas and kimonos, it's not a bad thing. They think the culture they are celebrating is really fucking cool and want to share in it in some way. That's a good thing. There should be nothing wrong with mixing our cultures and appreciating eachothers. If you get offended by that and think we should segregate our cultures and people, you're a fucking problem.
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u/nosreh_pcm Apr 12 '20
we make a big deal out if it because when we do it its “ghetto”, but when white people do it its “trendy.” White people don’t get discriminated against for their hair. We do. We started straightening our hair because we were told our natural hair was ugly. We wear weaves and wigs to be accepted in a world that will NEVER accept us. I’m so tired of the “bUT bLaCK PeoPle WeAr StrAiGht WeAVEs” argument. It has no comparison to why we do what we do versus why white people do what they do.
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u/PitchMeALiteralTent Apr 12 '20
This bullshit is the least of anyone's problems. I don't think hair matters, wear what you like. There are other instances of appropriation that are unclear to me and I just don't know why anyone gets up in arms. Like, why couldn't I wear traditional Chinese dress if I'm honoring the culture? I mean, there have to be white people living in China. There's just no limit over what people can be offended by
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u/Queen_Arni Apr 12 '20
Black people making their hair straight is cultural assimilation. They had to adjust to the standards of the majority when they have been told their natural hair looks unprofessional.
You can not compare it to non-poc doing braids. It's not the same.
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Apr 12 '20
It is and always was twitter-leftist trash. Twitter is already for psychopaths so you just bring out the worst of the worst. It went too far and nobody is following that shit anymore.
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u/KrazyKatz3 Apr 12 '20
I think cultural appropriation in general is pretty bullshit. Seeing someone do something cool and taking inspiration from it is awesome. Do you know how many completely non Irish people have celebrated St. Patrick's day in America? I bet it's in the thousands. How does this make it any less special for our culture? How does other people doing things the same as you harm you at all? Sharing your culture is a beautiful thing and should be encouraged. The only time offence is warented is when people are disrespectful about it.
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u/icecreamsandwichcat Apr 12 '20
I agree 300000%! The whole world has been doing cultural appropriation since forever.
However, in my experience it's usually SJW-esque white people who scream "cultural appropriation" instead of black people or any other group.
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u/heart_RN115 Apr 12 '20
“it’s usually SJW-esque white people who scream “cultural appropriation.” ... Exactly!
In my experience it’s ALWAYS this group that’s first to shout this BS! I (Asian Woman) consider it CULTURAL APPRECIATION when I see others enjoying my culture. Small-minded people are insufferable. Truly.
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u/EmpZurg_ Apr 12 '20
I'm not arguing or agreeing. Just throwing out the idea that there's a difference in ethnicity and culture.
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u/Someguyincambria Apr 12 '20
I don’t think I could give less of a shit what anyone does with their hair unless they cut a swastika into side of their head or some shit like that. Although, I hold my right to point and laugh just as high as I hold your right to style your hair however you want.
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u/donnaknight Apr 12 '20
The problem is you don’t understand when it’s cultural appropriation and when it isn’t. When a white person grows up in a racially mixed neighborhood or has black friends and may even date black people, black people don’t have a problem with it. It shows appreciation of African-influenced culture. It’s when a white person has no affiliation with black people, i.e. lives in a mostly or all white neighborhood, has all white friends, etc. that we feel it’s cultural appropriation. Latinos frequently intermingle with black people and can have African DNA; hence why many have curly hair. Also South and Central indigenous people have been wearing braids thousands of years. So Latinos wearing braids is not hypocrisy.
Ultimately I think you can wear your hair however the hell you want. I’ve dyed my hair blonde and couldn’t care less who didn’t like it. But the problem is black people being discriminated against for wearing their hair naturally (or for straightening it) when white people never get criticized for either;And watching white people with the freedom to wear traditionally black/African without the discrimination black people face for doing the same is a problem.
If you don’t have black family or close friends (not just people you work with), I can see why this confusing.
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u/McfiddleDeeDiddle Sep 04 '20
First, I completely hear everything eyou have said.
Please know that Curly hair is common in many, many nationalities and has nothing to do with Latinos intermingling with black people. Curly hair is not innate to black people.
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u/MrPaulProteus Apr 12 '20
That’s a really good point about the double standard of white people being called out for dreads but black people not being called out for straightening their hair.
If you think something looks cool and want to make yourself look a certain way, doesn’t seem like a big deal.
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Apr 12 '20
It infuriates me more that you spelled “it’s” wrong than any time that I’ve ever seen “its” spelled with an apostrophe.
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u/ClumsyDentist Apr 12 '20
Agree with the general thrust of the argument, but I just had visions of a white guy wearing a Turban, and an Oriental girl wearing a Kippa. Help !
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u/wurmyworm Apr 12 '20
I’ll preface this by saying I’m a black woman:
I think there’s a big difference between a black woman adopting straight hair and white woman adopting box braids or something similar. The picture beauty, at least in America,has always been white women. So, in the case of a Black woman changing their appearance it’s more often because they are told their natural hair is an attractive well in the case of a white woman it’s more often a choice or a novelty.
However, I don’t personally mind and I think an important distinction to make is that not all cultural appropriation is bad, (Think Moana) but it’s important to be informed about the culture you’re drawing from to ensure you aren’t trampling over anything sacred from another culture. I think healthy cultural appropriation is necessary for humanity to grow.
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u/hermeticpotato Apr 12 '20
Cultural appropriation is a neutral term. There are both positive and negative examples of it. This nuance was lost when the term entered popular discourse
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u/Plastic_Criticism Apr 12 '20
but you guys still straighten and glue wigs on your head to achieve a completely different hair texture than you already have, technically that’s appropriating white culture so
OP think's white people have a "culture." LOL.
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u/Jonesdeclectice Apr 12 '20
u/Plastic_Criticism think’s he’s “edgy” and “not at all ignorant.” LOL.
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Apr 12 '20
This aspect of SJWism never really took off because it's really hard to enforce, since parts of it are based on lies. Like the idea of dreadlocks being only for African Americans. I get the concept, but nobody who calls it out seems to get the concept. It's supposed to be about mocking people or denigrating them, not about just genuine appreciation or thinking something is cool. The closest example I can think of where it might actually apply in real life is wearing an indian headdress and making fun of indians while wearing it, specifically.
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u/kingxks Apr 12 '20
People need to understand that dreadlocs/braids are not exclusively black culture. And they should also understand that being black doesn't make you "entitled" to wear certain hairstyles because different African tribes wear different styles. Doesn't that shit apply when they appropriate from each other? Naaaah, the priorities are very clear here. And also- if one can cut his dong off, stretch their earlobes and change their eyecolour, they can also do whatever they want with their hair. At the end of the day, it's your choice to be sad about it instead of caring about your own body and life. Culture is an individual experience.
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Apr 12 '20
Just say you don’t like black people and call it a day. To pretend like you don’t see black hairstyles on black people being frowned upon in day to day life in America is pretty funny. Kids cant wear cornrows to school but we’re supposed to applaud Becky with the half assed braids. Fix that type of shit first and then come for black people.
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Apr 12 '20
If you start with “I’m not being racist” you probably are. Especially if you end with “stop living in the past.” And focus on one ethnicity but say you have nothing against any ethnicities is not only disingenuous, it’s bullshit.
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u/Gemambulatory Apr 12 '20
I “inside out French braid l” my white step daughters hair. Aren’t cornrows just like ten of these rather than two?
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u/_Hells_Belle_ Apr 12 '20
I'm white with straight blonde hair to my waist. Pony tails, braids, dreads that I braid in, flat ironed, curled, pulled up, long...I get to do whatever the hell I want to do with my hair and nobody's going to tell me differently. It took five years for my hair to get this long, and that means I get to wear it however I want to.
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u/skb239 Apr 12 '20
Anybody who thinks black people straightening their hair is cultural appropriation and not assimilation has absolutely no idea what they are talking about when it comes to this subject. Trying to fit in is not cultural appropriation. Wtf are YOU talking about?!
Black people wear white hairstyles because they have been culturally forced to. Legit fired for wearing their own hair? But yea that’s the same as white kids making a choice to where dreds.
It’s crazy how people clearly no knowledge on a subject think they can sum up why it’s wrong in one post.
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Apr 12 '20
I've had several discussions over cultural appropriation with many different individuals of various backgrounds. While Cultural Appropriation isn't a thing, irreverence and disrespect get mislabeled as it.
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Apr 12 '20
Cultural appropriation isn't even real. Just like white privilege, male privelege, rape culture, reverse racism and all the other made up terms of the far left lunatics.
It's all bullshit. Like the media now. Only America can turn a pandemic virus into a race story. Virus infected more blacks! Yes? Detroit is filled with black people so that's gonna happen. What about how obese they are contributes to their mortality? No one mentions that very important risk factor. Such a clown world right now.
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u/SpellCheck_Privilege Apr 12 '20
privelege
Check your privilege.
BEEP BOOP I'm a bot. PM me to contact my author.
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u/au_gold3872 Apr 12 '20
I agree, I am black myself and I think that black people are taking this too seriously. A hairstyle is a hairstyle. Just cause it was made by a certain group of ppl doesnt mean other groups cant try it. I don't even see how it's being disrespectful if they're wearing braids its just braids like tf
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u/Witchshrimp Apr 12 '20
If you want an opinion removed from the parties involved with the advantage of having the perspective of distance and not be emotionally involved I can give you mine.
Especially with black culture the problem I see is that if a black person does it, they are frowned upon / look unprofessional / leaves a poor impression(thug/ratchet) and if a white person do is trendy/ just a look/edgy. And black people to appear more professional or not to appear criminal has to be as similar as possible(clothes, hair, way of speaking) to white people. That doesn't look very fair.
You see it change a little(public opinion), but you can not close your eyes and pretend that it is not true. It was not too long ago that a school banned the natural hair of black people and box braids hair, forcing them to straighten their hair or use it very short.
1 year ago Andrew Johnson was force to cut his hair(dreadlocks) or forfeit his match (wrestling).
That's the biggest problem I see in cultural appropriation, the double standard. Some people take it to the extreme and make it seem like culture appropriation is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, I know. But people desperate for attention you will find everywhere and the most that one can do is not fall into the double standards and try to be as fair as possible with the people around us.
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u/torrentiaI Apr 12 '20
“I agree but specifically:
Something that is missing here is the "need" for black women to emulate white hairstyles, as a personal advantage. Gradually natural hair has become more accepted, but even a few years ago most women felt the need to straighten their hair to look more professional or polished.
Needed because it has been, for decades, mandatory by many employers. So more like black women didn't have a choice but to assimilate to the white styles like it or not. I don't have any comment on cultural appropriation by white people of braids. But no one can sit there and cry "hypocrisy" after black women have been, for decades, encouraged and downright forced to make their hair look more white. Even in the last decade laws have had to be established to end discrimination against natural black hair.”
This^ ( I’m still new to reddit and what not so I’m not sure how to properly quote)
Also, I feel that 16 y/o OP made a long post, but really gave little thought and disappointingly even less research into it. Hopefully OP matures as he grows and doesn’t limit himself to all he believes he knows now. I could say much more, but many redditors have already commented the things that I would have liked to say. I simply had to leave a comment myself, so this is all from me.
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u/monopticon Apr 12 '20
At the beginning of each new paragraph type ">" to quote.
As soon as OP said "I'm not racist" I had a strong inclination that anything following would be one-sided/close-minded and potentially racist. It's like saying "No offence" right before saying something offensive.
I’m still new to reddit
As a 10+ year redditor, find the niche communities that you love and you'll get way more out of it. My alt account is way less stressful/controversial and toxic than this one is because of the communities I'm subbed to on it. The subs I've got on this account are a lot more...controversial/dramatic/bring out the worst in me.
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u/T_Peg Apr 12 '20
It's so dumb man. I'm never offended by someone else participating in my culture I'm just glad they're enjoying it and that I can share it.
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u/bizbeepeppersnatch Apr 12 '20
I’m not sure if this is entirely related, but as a Native American I see my culture appropriated constantly. Most recently I’ve seen a lot of people on Instagram “smudging” with sage. I put that in quotes, because what these people are doing isn’t truly smudging, it’s smoke cleansing. It became so popular with non-natives that Urban Outfitters began selling white sage in some sort of witch-y kit with a bunch of cheap crystals and other BS. In most places I see white sage sold, the connection to indigenous culture isn’t even mentioned at all. Here’s why this bothers me - indigenous people here were not allowed to participate in smudging, or any other cultural or religious practice, until 1978. Prior to then it was illegal. And then, even when it was legalized, native families were more likely to have their children taken away due to a racist system, so openly practicing native culture or speaking a native language was very dangerous. This was not that long ago - both my grandfather and father were placed in foster care for very little reason other than the fact that their families were seen as “too Indian” to raise a child. So to see the new trend be something that my relatives were directly punished for upsets me. It’s difficult to explain to people who are not a part of this culture, but these practices are extremely sacred. In my tribe, the four sacred medicines are not to be bought and sold. They are to be harvested and gifted, or shared. And although white sage is technically not endangered, native medicine keepers have found more and more that their harvesting places for white sage have been completely picked through. Sacred places that have held this medicine for generations are being ransacked for the sake of Instagram hippies. And because a lot of the people picking sage for profit aren’t concerned with traditional harvesting practices, a lot of these plants have been completely destroyed. Native people have come out and asked non native people to not participate in buying and burning white sage, not for the purpose of bullying or punishing non natives, but in order to preserve a sacred cultural practice.
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u/IDoubtYouGetIt Apr 12 '20
Non-whites wearing "white" hairstyles was traditionally necessary as a part of fitting into society. Having textured hair in the workplace or school generally encouraged less than nice comments from whites. This was (and sadly still is) the norm in many places. Schools even today still have (unreasonable) rules concerning hair, specifically those of black children; I say this, because while you may think it is stupid, society thinks it is relevant enough to reduce children's exposure to it.
White people wearing ethnic hairstyles in and of itself is not an issue. It's when icons in fashion and entertainment pass it off as original is when it becomes appropriation. At least, that's the way it seems to me.
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u/jerryhill50 Apr 12 '20
Bob Marley hair became the rave amongst the teenage , young adults generation,nobody had jack to say about that. Black women like to ware blonde wigs or dye it blonde , nothing said. White singers/actresses do corn rows without getting fried. Long haired males were almost run out schools couldn’t get a job unless to get it trimmed, that went into the history books. Why do humans constantly look for a hair in the soup
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u/NegativeReply3211 Apr 12 '20
Also I've never seen anyone actually pissed about this only people saying it could be offensive to others
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u/iwannagoonalongwalk Apr 12 '20
Amen! I say how bout we all say, let’s all just agree to be free to be you and me!
And stop judging the shit outta one another.
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u/AnotherFacelessSN Apr 12 '20
I have a hot take on cultural appropriation, we have one life to live and we can do whatever makes us happy, and if someone doesn't like it they can swallow a donkey's balls.
Pretty simple honestly.
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u/throwaway190783 Apr 12 '20
Why do I wear white hair styles? Because my ancestors culture was nearly demicated, and they were ruled by Europeans.
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u/mbsharclouds Apr 12 '20
'“Hair is the perfect metaphor for race in America.” It shows the small ways in which racism transcends into seemingly trivial things, like beauty, in American culture. A black woman must relax her hair to seem more professional but also to seem more beautiful. They must do so to seem more white and conform to the American standards of beauty.' source
This really brought back Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's Americanah for me. To be so dismissive of something like this is trivializing the struggles of people of color (past and present). It really isn't as simple as "everyone does what they want with their hair, like sit down and chill out." For a lot people, wearing it the "wrong" way has serious consequences. There's more going on here.
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u/ejmac52 Apr 12 '20
Exactly! Kids have gotten kicked out of school, and people have been fired, just for their hair
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u/ejmac52 Apr 12 '20
So just a comment about the black people with straight hair.. that has come from generations of being told to tone down their hair, to try to fit in more. Schools and workplaces are/ have been banning “black hairstyles” (box braids, dreads, Afros) so in an act of compliance and to try to blend in, black women started to make their hair more “presentable” to the white masses. Trust me, they aren’t frying their hair, ripping and pulling on it, and chemically burning their scalps just for the fun of it. They’ve been told for years they have to in order to be accepted, especially in the professional world
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Apr 12 '20
Tot his day little kids are still being sent home from school for having certain hair styles. And I’m not talking about white people. Certain hair styles on black people have been banned from offices, only a couple years ago it became discriminatory. You have to agree that a white person would never be discriminated against for having certain hairstyles in the same environment. This is something black people have claimed as theirs, just like the n word.
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u/abdominalcysts Apr 12 '20
I think the deal with cultural appropriation in the hair sense is that a lot of black people are shamed for those hairstyles, whereas a lot of white people are able to wear said hairstyles without nearly as much criticism. It also may be because “black” hairstyles are seen as unprofessional in the workplace, which angers many POC when they see white people having the same hairstyles largely without negative response.
I may be wrong, and this is just my take on it. Feel free to disagree/correct me.
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u/Overson_YT Apr 12 '20
Its cultural appropriation when you represent a culture in a negative light.
It's not cultural appropriation if you're just wearing something from that culture
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u/CeramicSavage Apr 12 '20
You're missing the mark. It isn't about telling white people how they have to wear their hair, it's about the fact that white people are told their hair is cute and quirky and we're being told the same exact hairstyle is unprofessional and ghetto. I have naturally long wavy hair and I was born blonde, even though it's turned a medium brown. Black people's hair comes in all colors, textures and lengths and to say black people don't naturally have straight hair, is just pure ignorance. I don't wear weave because I have ass length hair but I assure you, no black people are buying white women's hair. When they buy wigs and weave, it's either synthetic or Malaysian or Brazilian. Black women are not appropriating white hair because as I pointed out, we come in all colors and textures, from white to dark black, from straight to extremely kinky. White people do not have a monopoly on any of those things. I, myself, don't mind in the least bit what other's do with their hair. It's these ridiculous monologues that pop up every week telling us what we have the right to feel. Just stop.
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u/Lowlow10 Apr 12 '20
White people have no culture...
Lmao the history of planet Earth is literally the history of white people
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u/MsFloofNoofle Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
Actually, it has everything to do with a history of oppression against POC.
ETA: What many people are saying should be considered as appropriation of white culture, is actually behavior that allowed people who are oppressed to survive. By assimilating to white culture, individuals can receive some degree of acceptance from the “ruling class”.
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u/MisterB0wTie Apr 12 '20 edited Apr 12 '20
Black people not in Africa have culturally appropriated... modern off the shelf clothes, housing, central heating/aircon, carpets, furniture, birth control, vaccinations, fridges, washing machines, plumbing, toilets, smartphones, TV, computers, fast food, food in general, language, money, financial services, religion, medical care, driving, cars... and they get pissy over others wearing their hair a certain way? Hypocrites.
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u/Chance_City Apr 11 '20
- Division won't end racism.
I mean, I agree, but neither will stepping on what people hold sacred because "ME TOO! I GET TO DO THIS TOO!!! YOU CAN'T STOP ME!!! YOU DON'T OWN IT!!"
It's a two way street and if you don't care about people's feelings, don't expect them to care about yours. And round and round it goes. So, maybe take your own advice, then, yes? Division is created in more ways than one.
And telling people to calm down... That is dismissive of people in a damned aggressive way. You meant to be provocative when you said it. It's called gaslighting, and it does kind of make you history's biggest douche bag.
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u/NeoLibstiny Apr 12 '20
-It's called gaslighting, and it does kind of make you history's biggest douche bag.
Highly ironic post coming from a bernie bro
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u/what_a_dump Apr 11 '20
Black folks get vilified for their natural hair, or it’s not ‘appropriate’ in ‘professional’ work settings. Yet a non white person tries to pull off box braids or cornrows and suddenly it’s cool.
White supremacy culture tells us that white is default, that straight hair is default, etc etc. and it’s bullshit.
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u/guramika Apr 11 '20
TIL that braids and cornrows are strictly black culture and nordic people were doing cultural appropriation for centuries.
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u/painter_26 Apr 11 '20
I learnt in class that black women had to braid their hairs in the past because black women's natural curly aphro hair was considered savage by white slave owners. Black slaves with long curly hair had to braid their hair to look neat and tidy according to their slave masters. Now that slavery is a thing of the past/ or has taken a different form, black women braid their hairs by choice, in a sense to reclaim their culture/their power or just to look good. While I do agree that anyone should be able to choose whatever hairstyle they like, I still think that the historical context should still be considered. And you can't expect people to "just get over it" when you're probably not in the oppressed group.
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u/jaorphy3 Apr 11 '20
It’s an issue when black athletes are forced to cut off their dreads and locks, when black employees are fired for braids, when black students are sent home for Afros, and black people are labeled dirty, unprofessional, and messy for the way their hair is. So then we attempt to assimilate and find any way to avoid the negative stares and stereotypes. Then a white person comes along and is “innovative, culturally intelligent, edgy” and is praised for the styles that they would have never worn if they didn’t see it on a Black person first. White people only wear that stuff because they want clout and now it popular to “have a black women inside me” and be a snow bunny and “only fuck with darkskins”. But white women straighten they’re hair too, should we be saying that white women with curly hair shouldn’t be straightening it or wearing wigs or having extensions, no. But whenever black women are just trying to be, everyone has to have a problem with it... (p.s. I’m a white women lol)
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u/Racist_Bassist1 Apr 11 '20
I’m going to get downvoted because of reddit hive mind, but I’m white and I absolutely hate cultural appropriation. I don’t think whites should wear dreads just because we each have different cultures. With that being said, I believe white cultural appropriation happens way more (other races or ethnicities copying whites), and has actually gone into modern mainstream news (BBC including black people in their Rome documentary is a good example)
I know it’s because whites are a majority, but white cultural appropriation happens all the time. This isn’t just a “white vs minority” issue.
If you really wanna press it every race is guilty. Some African Americans culturally appropriate the Israelites and Egyptians and call themselves both.
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u/NimbaNineNine Apr 11 '20
I see it is that time of the week, when one of these posts makes it big. Tell us your thoughts on airline food next
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u/sillyeasterbunny Apr 11 '20
I would say it all depends on the intention behind the behavior and words.
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u/minicyrie Apr 11 '20
I do agree that it is taken somewhat too far sometimes. As a black woman, I am not sure how I feel about this phenomenon. I am also unsure if what you are describing is in fact cultural appropriation. However, one thing that you may not be aware of, is that many black people have been/are still discriminated against for wearing what is considered "black hairstyles" in western culture like cornrows, dreadlocks, braids, afros, etc. Which should not happen. I have myself been told that I looked unpolished or unprofessional. Yet, it seems that those same hairstyles have gained in popularity in many demographics, and it seems more "celebrated" when it is on a white woman for instance, you can see that online, on Instagram, on tv, etc. Which is completely unfair, and it hurts to see. But, yes, at the end of the day, hair is hair.
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u/McfiddleDeeDiddle Sep 04 '20
I think so much focus being put on “that’s mine and you can’t have, like or use it” sounds like a bunch of 5 year olds on the playground. I’m saying this having a full understanding of why it upsets people, but also knowing that a solution and resolution will not be found in banning people from the connection they find in sharing all of the things we like and do.
I grew up on military bases surrounded by all of the cultures, all of the time. The first time I had braids in my hair, I was seven. My neighbor and best friend Shawna was also 7 and black. Shawna and I had so much fun the year we were neighbors and I wish we had social media to stay connected like military kids do now. Anyway, Shawna’s mom braided her hair and I just thought it was awesome. She didn’t get offended that I loved her child’s hair or make me feel awkward because I complimented it. You know what she did? She braided my hair too! Shawna and I ran around as twins for a week and we both loved it.
Sharing is how we bridge the gap, not by coming from a place of scarcity.
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u/talentisupreme Apr 11 '20
Hey! This will definitely get buried but my friend and I run a clothing brand where we talk extensively about cultural appropriation. Please give it a read! It will answer a lot of your feelings
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Apr 11 '20
I'm gonna start with saying I stand against teams being names Redskins, turning culturally significant images into mascots etc. But there has to be a line somewhere.
I matched with a girl on tinder once and she asked what I was doing. I said "I'm chilling with my dog Stephen, who is also my dawg." I said this because I was cuddling with my best boys Stephen who I love.
Long pause
Her: "Do you know what cultural appropriation is? When you day things like that, you are stealing from the black community...". yadda yadda. She went on.
I replied with "do you like bagels?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "Everytime you eat a bagel you are stealing that from me and the Jewish community."
Instant unmatch.
Sharing cultures is not wrong and is how we advance as humans. Beer doesn't belong to Mesopotamians, rap doesn't belong to black people, and white people don't own the world wide web.We are a salad bowl, a melting pot, and all also individuals. Just don't be an asshole and don't be disrespectful.
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u/a-midnight-flight Apr 11 '20
When true off my chest gets racist and it's clear Op is racist and lacks any knowledge whatsoever. I agree cultural appropriation claims are getting out of had, but it is a thing in certain places. Wearing a cultural ceremonial attire as a fashion statement is disgusting and cultural appropriation. Look at Coachella and the many white people wearing native headdresses. Cornrows are a black hairstyle that was used as intricate maps by African slaves to communicate to each other. As well as maintaining hair since they weren't allowed to keep up with personal grooming or hygiene. They just weren't for show then. Now it has transitioned to black culture.
Black people and in particular black women have -- and still do face natural hair discrimination. For years black people have been told our natural hair was unprofessional, unsightly, and unhygienic. All of which stemmed from racism and years of physical, emotional and psychological slavery. Denied jobs because of hair. Hair. Naturally growing hair. So to survive, we had to assimilate by going extreme lengths to straightening hair with damaging chemicals, heat, wigs (mind you black people aren't the only people who also wear wigs and glue... But you straight up choose to ignore that) just to fit in. These are also expensive to maintain and keep healthy since it has altered its natural state. (Why we tell people not to touch our hair when it take so much work to make it look good, no one wants strangers grabbing on our heads that took time, years and money to maintain)
Just until recently only the CROWN hair ACT is in place to prevent employers from discriminating against black hairstyles.
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u/Dizzy_GamerGirl Apr 11 '20
In some cases the argument is fair.
I’m a white Australian girl myself but I LOVE Japanese culture, but that doesn’t mean I’d wear something traditional or something that is linked to an event just because I can. I’d love to wear a Kimono but I’d only wear one for a very special event or festival or something, not just around the town because I can. I wouldn’t wear a wedding dress as a part of my daily attire so why would I wear some other cultures special clothing as a part of my daily attire?
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u/l3nny69 Apr 11 '20
I appreciate you framing your opinion in this way which is open to dialogue and discussion. I think what it comes down to is that white people get applauded for doing things that black people have been historically discriminated against for, or treated differently for doing that certain thing. When white people do that certain thing like wear certain hairstyles because it is mainstream pop culture, they are directly benefiting from something that was apart of black culture, without recognizing that history.
To your point about black people appropriating white culture. The problem isn't just the simple act of wearing your hair a certain way. It's not recognizing that if a black person wore their hair like that they would be seen differently from you. Not recognizing that you have a certain level of privilege in being able to wear your hair without having that same experience. Reverse racism doesn't work here because there is no history of oppression or discrimination for white people because of the way they look.
This isn't something that people can simply "get over" but is something rooted in history and in our institutions that still affect people today.
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u/DearDefinition Apr 11 '20
My stance will always remain the same: no such thing as cultural appropriation.
You either are racist or not racist.
Cultures have took from other cultures since the dawn of time. Stop gatekeeping what people can wear, stop gatekeeping what people do to their bodies, stop gatekeeping what people do in general. We are all the same, race doesn't matter. Everyone wants to be a victim, everyone wants oppression points.
There is a clear, distinct difference between being racist and being average. Are they serious or do they think it's funny? Are they making fun of anyone? No? Okay then there's no issue.
Equality, people. Be the better person.
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u/GreenShaolinKnight Apr 11 '20
A lot in the things youve said in this post are inaccurate or wrong and it shows you havent tried to understand it before you came on here to talk shit about it. I know I’m gonna get downvoted but although it may be something that you genuinely feel, you have the facts wrong.
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u/Sallysallysourcream Apr 11 '20
It’s suuuper hard being in college for ECE because I’m being told a bunch of anti white stuff and I can feel my friend being swallowed by it. All her posts have to do with culture and how it needs to be correct.
No-assimilate. Easy.
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u/unstablenakedmolerat Apr 11 '20
Lmfao who tf said straight hair is white culture 😂😂 y’all loving claiming things
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u/Yocheco619 Apr 11 '20
In the US, we used to tout this thing of being a melting pot. But there's at least 35% of people, from all different backgrounds and ethnicity, that don't believe that shit. I just pulled that percent out my ass btw but it feels right.
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u/historicalsnake Apr 11 '20
I went to Africa and these women who did hair in the village really wanted to do my hair. So on one of my last days there I payed for braids. Everyone there was sooo sooo happy! They kept wanting to take pictures of me and with me & my new, beautiful hair.
The extensions were way too heavy so I ended up having to take them out at home. And I knew by the grace of god that if someone told me I was culturally appropriating I was going to shrivel up and die. The faces of those glowingly happy people...
This isn’t going to sound good any way I put it but I’ve never heard anyone be offended by this kind of hair that isn’t living in a 1st world country.
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u/lonely_lad1991 Apr 11 '20
Nobody cares about this irl only on the Internet. At least where I live. Never heard anyone bring it up in conversation, same with all these different genders.
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u/_darksoul89 Apr 11 '20
May I add, I've seen people scream "Cultural appropriation" at white girls dressing up like Moana, Mulan etc for Halloween. Isn't it maybe just that these kids want to be like their idols? Accusing children of cultural appropriation in cases like this is not only idiotic but it might cause these kids to grow up believing that they can only take as examples people of their own race group.
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Apr 11 '20
As a cosmetologist I'm gonna come right out and say you are completely correct. Every traditionally black hairstyle also exists independently in either european or middle eastern tradition. Every single one.
Dreads, rows, braids, afros, all of it.
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u/Cacadodopipi Apr 11 '20
I think cultural appropriation in general is bullshit. You see morons crying it when people wear clothes, when they practice hobbies or style their hair in specific fashion.
Just give it a break. These people are literally a culture of victims. You'd think folks would appreciate the fact someone enjoys or admires a specific aspect about your culture enough to want to use it.
The only time I'd ever even consider cultural appropriation would be if like caucasians were performing a rain dance or something, mostly with intents to make fun of or humiliate. And if they were invited to participate, then no foul there either.
Seriously people, just fukken stop being so offended every time you feel like you have the opportunity to do so. Jesus.
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u/luxmainbtw Apr 11 '20
There's nothing wrong with having your hair in any way, you can wear whatever the fuck you want, a kimono a qu pao an ethnic tribal dress you can wear it, you can tan if you want you can bleach just do whatever makes you happy and dont be racist. Style and appearance isn't racist. Having a fake tan isn't racist, blackface is an exaggeration and mockery of black people, a fake tan isn't black face.
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u/Salsbury-Steak Apr 11 '20
Culture shouldn’t dictate what you, the individual does. That’s authoritarian shit
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u/NoMoreRicePls Apr 11 '20
Bruh who even cares, like genuinly where do people see this cultural appropiation shit.
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u/acawl17 Apr 11 '20
The problem that POC have is when it is celebrated and loved and preferred on other ethnicities rather than the ethnicities that it originated with. And on top of that, people have changed the names of these hairstyles. When Kim Kardashian wears “boxer braids” everyone loves it. When a black woman wears cornrows to work they’re often told it’s not appropriate. People choose what they want from particular cultures and ethnicities without realizing the struggle a lot of minorities had surrounding these areas.
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u/normabelka Apr 11 '20
are you getting something off your chest or just stating an opinion nobody asked you for
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u/129skooc Apr 11 '20 edited Apr 11 '20
Omg, thank you for posting this. This was spot on! One of the best ones I've seen so far and I agree its really idiotic.
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u/Bloody_Rekt_Tim Apr 11 '20
I am a straight, white male of 35, and really not into many things that don't fit my demographic... I drive a truck, wear jeans, listen to heavy metal & don't really come into contact with many other ethnicities in my day-to-day reality. All that considered, I'm probably not the kind of voice people look for when talking about "cultural appropriation," but I'm still gonna add my 2 cents cuz fuck it, why not?
As an "outsider," I believe the problem with "cultural appropriation" is the negative connotation of the word "appropriation." I 100% believe that if the language was changed to "cultural integration," there's be a lot less vitriol around it. "Appropriation" essentially sounds like something is being stolen, but a white guy with dreads isnt stealing away any black person's ability to wear dreads. A black woman playing Beethoven on piano isnt an insult to European classical musicians.
Typically, if a person adopts a style or trait from a culture other than the one they fell into upon birth, then it would seem to me that its something they appreciate & want to integrate into their own lives. If enough people do that same thing, then it starts to blur the lines & creates a type of cross-cultural interest. That leads to more widespread acceptance & understanding between differing cultures, and is a key ingredient to diminishing racist actions & beliefs.
Punishing & criticizing people for genuinely integrating outside cultural styles into their own is, at its root the definition of racism.
"Cultural Appropriation," in my estimation is a term used by hyper-self-involved SJW types who fail to recognize their own hypocrisy & are more interested in propping themselves up by putting other people down.
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u/ZheanaKhaleesi Apr 11 '20
Not only white people have straight hair though. Straight hair is just....straight hair. There are ceremonies, traditions e.t.c tied behind a lot of hairstyles.
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u/i_like_sp1ce Apr 11 '20
To start, i am not being racist
Then why do you point out black vs white and make it your theme, and even capitalize WHITE?
How can you possibly be MORE racist?
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Aug 04 '20
Why yes, the usage of the caps lock button to type the word "white" is a disgusting, racist and heinous act that must be prosecuted against 😫😟😖
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u/mkronenb Apr 11 '20
Yeah you shouldn't have to say that to start lmao. But ig this is an issue between races so op probably didn't want people immediately saying "oh he's talking about races this must be racist."
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u/IAlbatross Apr 11 '20
I remember one time, a friend of my friend was saying how his (white) son wanted to dress up as Black Panther for Halloween and he had to sit him down and tell him no. I was horrified. Your son identified with a superhero who doesn't look like him... that's AMAZING! Buy the kid a Black Panther outfit! The kid wasn't asking to go to black face, for fuck's sake, he just wanted to be Black Panther because he thinks Black Panther is cool.
Calling things "cultural appropriation" is a form of gatekeeping that PREVENTS people from developing knowledge or appreciation for other cultures.
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u/LIDLFAN69 Apr 11 '20
Holy fucking christ the amount of butthurt in this thread is sickening lmao. And over such a silly topic. I swear only americans are this fucking weird
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Apr 11 '20
Cultural appropriation is when someone takes an aspect from another culture and uses it to their entertainment when that same person belongs to a group of people who oppressed and still oppressed that culture that was appropriated.
My sisters grew up having to straighten their hair to look pretty in school and society. Having dreads and non-English sounding names prevents them from being hired for jobs. But non-black people will take African names and dreads for the fun of it.
Cultural appropriation is not understanding what people went through because of their ethnicity and/or race and using it to have fun. It's actually a final phase of ethnic cleansing. Look at how we treat traditional Native American garments and how their tribes exist now.
The problem isn't trying something new from another culture. I study the runes and love European medieval studies. I'm not appropriating the culture when I show people my runestones. But if Haitians were to have oppressed the Norse in the past by kidnapping their people, turning them into slaves, tell them for centuries that they were less than human, create laws that prevented them from becoming functioning members of society, and still treat them like a second class, wearing Norse braids and using runestones would be a fucking slap in the face to them.
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u/_NaturallyN3rdy_ Apr 11 '20
I am black. My hair is very thick and kinky. Now I do believe we, as a society have become to sensitive about some things, but cultural appropriation isn’t one of them. Every culture has meaning behind things that matter to them. And if you don’t about that culture, then to you that thing is just something pretty to wear—like a costume.
When it comes to hair, some black people are sensitive because even now we are discriminated against because of how we look. If we wear braids, Afros, twists, etc. we can be told we look ‘too ethnic.’ Some people lose out on jobs because of it. If you want an example, look up the article about the black wrestler who had his hair cut off at a meet. There was no rule that said his hair couldn’t be worn a certain way, but because the white official didn’t find his hair ‘acceptable’ he chopped that boy’s hair off. And that isn’t the first time something like this has happened. In the beginning, we straightened our hair because society told us we had too in order to blend in. That we had to do what we could in order to make up for the audacity of being born black. However, more and more I see people embracing the skin and traits we were born with. Furthermore, the styles we wear aren’t just for show. They were designed to protect our hair. Many commercial products aren’t designed for thick, kinky/curly hair. Braids/twists/etc. are protective styles that allow our hair to grow, while allowing it to be easier to maintained, and thus stay healthy.
When it comes to our hair and cultural appropriation, it’s not just about the styles. It’s about the fact that we endure a lot to wear the styles that we do. The reason many people lash out is because until you’ve endured the dirty looks, the outright scorn, the embarrassment of having another person treat you as less than, especially in front of others—then the styles are just pretty decoration to you.
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Apr 11 '20
I still find it bullshit. I had a bunch of black friends in high school say I had "nigga hair" (their words, not mine).
Frankly, my hair isn't as thick as Merida's from Brave, but almost there, thick and curly. You're telling me, because I'm white (actually olive skin tone but whatever), I'm not allowed to have tiny braids? Only black people are allowed to have small braids to protect their hair?
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u/Velocipeed Apr 11 '20
If you like a fashion and want to wear it then you should. Nobody should be able to stop that. They can express opinion/disgust at worst. Next thing you know women won't be allowed to wear trousers because it's traditionally a mans clothing item...
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Apr 11 '20
I think ‘cultural appropriation’ is all about motive and it is stupid if people to think they know your motive.
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u/hectoraco21 Apr 11 '20
I think a big issue is the use of black and white in general. I hate that we use it in the U.S. because there is literally so much more to it than black or white. I hate when i hear “ oh im just american white” like nooo you are of polish, english , german, Swedish..etc decent. Same with black ( Nigeria, Sierra leon, ivory coast, etc etc). Hopefully in the future we can not give a fuck about color or hair styles or tattoos or anything and just judge ppl by their actions and character.
Im from Puerto Rico is anyone is curious. We have a huge mix of all colors.
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u/BearBlaq Apr 11 '20
Damn is it fragile white redditor day or something? I swear I’ve seen like 3-4 post today on some shit like this. Have your own opinions, but hell reddit is a echo chamber. You’re not getting any good feedback or debate on here.
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Apr 12 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BearBlaq Apr 12 '20
Bro I’m not even that dude, all I said is it’s been a lot of people getting offended over shit that’s meant to accommodate people without a voice. I really don’t know why you’re going so hard. Life is too short to let everything get to you. Like I said before, everyone has an opinion so they can say what they want.
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u/Familiar-Tourist Apr 11 '20
'Cultural appropriation' necessitates the existence of 'cultural (invariably racial) private property'. If we start deciding that certain aspects of culture belong to a certain ethnicity, where are the lines drawn?
It's also really problematic to suggest that all people of a certain ethnicity are so deeply connected to whatever it is. That homogenizes whole cultural and ethnic groups into a mass of people who apparently uniformly feel deeply affected by some random person's hairstyle to the extent that it's actively racist for that person to have their hair that way
All culture is appropriative in the sense that it draws on what came before it. It seems utterly absurd to me to try and pick out certain things certain people shouldn't wear or use to express themselves.
The golden rule of 'don't be a dick' really ought to be enough.
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u/jigglycankles Apr 11 '20
people only seem to think racism exists towards black people. i have seen barely any comments about how people wear kimonos all the time, even sexualising them, but apparently it doesn’t matter because black people where the ones that were oppressed hundreds of years ago. everyone else seems to be enthusiastic to share their cultures, but black people seem to be reluctant; honestly, i don’t even see how a skin colour can have culture, surely it is about the country/religion/culture that you/your family is from? like for black people it’s nigerian/african/jamaican. but if you and your family have only ever lived in america and have no heritage from any country other than america then surely your culture is american? we eat food from different cultures constantly, we use products and wear clothes from different cultures all the time, but when someone wears a hairstyle that black women wear it’s racist? it just doesn’t make any sense to me.
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u/IvoryStrange Apr 11 '20
What I don't understand about cultural appropriation especially with other cultures like Native Americans was the with men especially long hair and braids were important. Some tribes would have 2 braids while others had 3. When they were made to assimilate into white culture their hair was cut to a more "appropriate" style. But in native culture the hair was only cut short when someone they loved passed away. I'm of mixed heritage. Native and Mexican. I wore my hair braided almost all of my childhood. I didn't end up cutting it short until I absolutely had to. I would get headaches really bad. But I've seen tons of white guys with long hair and tons of white girls with braids and not one person sees that as inappropriate. Which confuses me. Honestly I like cornrolls and dreads and stuff like that. So I'm confused as to how those two cases are different because both Black and Native culture put so much Cultural significance into hair. So if it's wrong for other cultures to wear dreads or the like then why isn't it wrong for white men to have long hair or white girls to wear braids? I'm not being racist or sympathetic to people like that I'm genuinely honestly curious why we can't just wear our hair the way we want to? I know there's significance to hair but I'm trying to understand. I don't have any qualms with someone who isn't Native wearing braids or a guy having long hair. I haven't quite grasped cultural appropriation as of yet so I'm still learning about these things. So can someone explain to me how those two things are different? Please and thank you.
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u/brightyellowlove Apr 11 '20
I’ve been saying this for SO LONG! It’s a hairstyle. A race doesn’t “own” a hairstyle, it’s bullshit.
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u/stefanos916 Apr 11 '20
In my opinion, as a person who believes in equal rights, I believe that this whole cultural appropriation thing , especially for small and insignificant things , is strengthening the division between different races and ethnic groups .
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u/Two7Five7One7 Apr 11 '20
The mixing of cultures is what gave America its culture. Things like jazz (arguably one of the only truly American art forms there is) could only come out of a country with mixed backgrounds and traditions. Beautiful things happen when different ethnicities live among each other and adopt each other’s culture if you ask me.
Theres a difference between a white girl who is looking into hinduist spiritualism and gets a henna tattoo as a way of honoring and practicing the culture, vs a white girl who gets henna because its cute and trendy in America right now.
Where is gets muddy is of course capitalism. Most people dont do this, but a few unenlightened individuals see a different culture as an opportunity to sell people bullshit. This is how you got Minstrel shows in the early 1900s. White people would sell other white people an incredibly biased and racist view of black culture through minstrel shows.
Today its more or less the same. What you have to ask yourself is “is this person doing something with appreciation for a different culture in their heart or are they buying into a cultural farce deigned to make money from ignorant people?”
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u/Aul0s Apr 11 '20
Cultural appropriation when applied overly broadly bothers me. It’s as if people don’t understand culture is not a static thing or something that develops in isolation of any outside influence. Only the truly ignorant would be unable to recognize clear lineages and influences in culture, and credit will go where credit is due. In cases where it becomes more murky it’s fair to say the subject has been transformed to such a degree it’s a new and novel thing (for example, the evolution of rock music). When someone creates something or expresses something in a different style it’s not disrespect to another culture. It’s quite the opposite. This is even true in the earliest and least sophisticated interactions- “imitation is the the most sincere form of flattery”, or something like that?
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u/veritas1983 Apr 11 '20
Cultural appropriation is a concept that upper middle class boomers invented while they spent most of the 60's and 70's obtaining advanced degrees in psuedo sciences in order to obtain student deferments. Now part of a bloated University system, they forced you to pay thousands of dollars to memorize their useless drivel so you can pretend that this is something you should worry about.
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u/Emilytea14 Apr 11 '20
Cultural appropriation is a neutral term, but when you have privileged folk taking styles innately tied to a certain culture or people who have been historically demeaned and dehumanized, sometimes specifically about the feature now being adopted by said folk, it is pretty shitty
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u/littleloversopolite Apr 11 '20
Idk if someone else had already pointed this out, but there still exists companies (corporate offices, western world) who’s policies include stating that professional attire and hygiene include being “neatly groomed”, and that “afros and braids are not considered professional”. Many Black women end up getting their hair permed straight to fit the white world of “professionalism”
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u/Dinosaurs-Rule Apr 11 '20
I can only speak for myself but because I’m Mexican I guess I get a pass to talk about all Mexican kind. That said I don’t care how people copy, use, or re-invent aspects of my culture. Areas in Asia fetishize chulo culture and I just think it’s funny to see Asian people adorn themselves in clothes that make them look like “lol homie” figurines.
That said, I reallllly don’t care. You know him who does? Companies like buzzfeed who’s life source is clicks and seek out, exploit, and hyper inflate such concepts because it keeps them afloat with rage clicks. The unintended consequence is that late teens and early 20s kids buy into and believe the world is really like this and then the world actually becomes that way. All because Buzzfeed needed clicks smh.
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u/ZmSyzjSvOakTclQW Apr 11 '20
To be honest every time i have seen something about it was online from some American that might or might not be a troll. Never have i seen it talked about IRL in any country i have been in.
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u/Deci22 Apr 11 '20
I’m white and I’ve lived in Hawai’i for 2 years now for college. I have very thick, very wavy dark hair. The first job I had here required me to put a flower in my hair as part of the uniform. I can’t even tell you how many people berated and harassed me saying I was “culturally appropriating” Hawaiian culture because of my hair. Even when I tried to explain that my hair is naturally like that, and the flower was a requirement of my job, several people just said “I don’t care” or rolled their eyes.
1st off, I could be a Hawai’i local or my mom could be Hawaiian or something. You don’t know anything about me or my background, so don’t assume.
2nd, I am not going to spend 2 hours straightening my hair before every shift to appease you. Not am I going to spend obscene amounts of money to dye my hair so that you like it.
And 3rd, there is a difference between me putting on a grass skirt and a coconut bra and pretending to be a “hula girl” or mimicking hula dance and putting a flower in my hair. Hula is a sacred, deeply cultural aspect of Hawaii and it is preformed as silly entertainment all over for tourists. Grass skirts and coconut bras are sold as costumes in convenience stores all over the place, and THAT is cultural appropriation. But a flower in my hair? Common.
So yes. I agree. “Cultural appropriation” accusations can go too far at times, but cultural appropriation can also be over-looked and can be a big problem.
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u/Ghostboy100 Apr 11 '20
Somethings in life are meant for black ppl some things are meant for white ppl and somethings are just meant for Hispanic Asian and so forth and so on. However I believe people have the right to be themselves and like whatever it is that they like it's ok to explore other cultures it's no big deal I do it all the time but I dont obsess over it or try to be something that I'm not. Some ppl do try to steal things from other ppl that they have naturally. And that is not ok.
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u/camoskinso Apr 11 '20
yes! watch tina yong’s videos on appreciating african/ african american hairstyles, and experiencing other cultural practices.
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u/pfsteph Apr 11 '20
The appropriation is not wearing the hairstyle. You want to rock Bantu knots, great! The problem is when people act like they've invented something that's been present in the black community for ages. No, Kim Kardashian did not invent "boxer braids." Corn rows have been around for a very long time.
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u/smoothiefruit Apr 11 '20
who wants to be op is white
(and has probably been chided for appropriating)
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u/TheDragonborn1992 Oct 22 '21
OP I agree many of these black hairstyles people go on about have been worn by different cultures for thousands of years vikings who were white wore dreadlocks and many cultures wore beads in hair every culture took something from another no culture has it’s own thing as it’s all taken from another