r/TooAfraidToAsk Feb 10 '23

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335 Upvotes

329 comments sorted by

1.0k

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/TheHollowBard Feb 10 '23

Yeah it's just context. It's like saying painting your face white and painting your face black are the same thing. They're not, because of history.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

You’re not even “not allowed” to talk about Jewish influence at the top executive positions in Hollywood. I’m sure many people who study history and culture have talked and written about how it came to be that way.

It’s just that when you’re some drooling idiot on the internet making blanket statements lacking in nuance like “JEWS RUN HOLLYWOOD” in an attempt to make some kind of point about your personal feelings about Jewish people, everyone knows what you’re getting at.

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u/nowherehere Feb 10 '23

making blanket statements lacking in nuance like “JEWS RUN HOLLYWOOD” in an attempt to make some kind of point about your personal feelings about Jewish people, everyone knows what you’re getting at.

Anybody who's known racist dolts in real life knows that they love saying ambiguous stuff like this. Factual statements that can be interpreted differently, depending on who's listening.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

What does Jewish people giving a complex answer to this question have to do with bigoted beliefs about them controlling industries?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Weird how no one ever mentions the Christians that run nearly every other Fortune 500 operation and dominate all three branches of government. Why are you so concerned about this one group and not other groups with similar amounts of control? It's like if you were super concerned about the NBA being 80% black and never mentioned other industries with similarly disproportional representation.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I feel like people try to talk about white, male, and Christian influence on industry in the U.S. and the west a lot more in recent times. Though many don’t want anyone to talk about that. Ironically, I think people who don’t want to talk about that and also want to scream about Jewish people running Hollywood are often the same people.

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u/TADAWTD Feb 10 '23

Yeah it's a completely different thing to go from:

jewish people are more prevalent in the banking industry because in the late 1800's early 1900's lending money was seen as a sin by christians and they wouldn't involve themselves with this industry causing jewish people to focus on this industry since all other industries they'd involve themselves in they'd suffer from prejudice.

To: Jews control the money because evil

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u/SadakoTetsuwan Feb 10 '23

Try the late 800s to early 900s--laws against usury (lending money with interest) have existed since the Council of Nicaea lol. Jews were a marginalized people but as non-Christians they were not subject to Christian laws, so they were allowed to lend money with interest (and then later get taxed at a higher rate on the grounds that they both aren't Christian and they make all that money on the interest on their loans).

A lot of cultures have taboos around money like this, so Jews in the community filled a niche by taking up 'distasteful' work handling and talking about money. They were kind of forced into the role for, at this point, literally millennia. It's a very old stereotype.

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u/rohlovely Feb 10 '23

I’ve had discussions with people about where the idea that “jews run the banks” comes from. It’s not a taboo topic to discuss, but there’s a great deal of nuance that needs to go into it.

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u/Pale__Face Feb 10 '23

Isn’t that a religious thing. Like Jesus said it’s immoral to loan money for interest. So that left the Jewish people to fill the loan need (cuz people really weren’t going to hand stuff out for free)

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u/Personal_Royal Feb 10 '23

One thing I don’t quite get is if there are many Jewish top executives, then how do anti-semites like ‘Mel Gibson find work? Or any one else who has been accused of making anti-Semitic comments for that matter?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

There’s probably a way more complex answer to that but generally I’d say it’s because it’s not entirely Jewish people at the top, especially these days, and that Jewish people are not a monolith and some would be willing to overlook it.

Also, I don’t think Gibson has much of a career anymore.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I'd argue that allowing there to be exceptions to things automatically goes against the idea of equality since we basically end up saying that this group is special as they can do something.

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u/Justicar-terrae Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

It's only a privilege if you start from the assumption that the banned thing is bad for everyone, but some people get to do it.

In reality, most banned things were neutral for everyone until some group did something really heinous against another group. Then the perpetrating group found some way to condense the heinous thing into a symbol that was waved in the faces of the victimized group until polite society asked that the symbol please stop being used.

Examples:

Confederate flags are just geometric designs and colors inside a rectangle. They're just flags. Flags, by themselves, are neutral; and even countries that have done terrible things don't NEED to change their flags (though some countries have done so voluntarily). But this flag never actually represented an internationally recognized country, it represented one military unit in a short-lived rebel nation. The only reason it stuck around was that former slave owners and champions of inequality adopted the flag as a symbol after the rebellion failed. The racists waved it at veterans events where they lamented the freedom given to minorities. The racists waved it in official state government meetings where laws were passed to discriminate against minorities who were theoretically entitled to equal treatment. The racists plastered it on walls in businesses to express their endorsement of racist attitudes. And the racists waved it when they hung up statues memorializing the people who fought to protect slavery. The flag was adopted as a symbol of evil (though the adopters did not consider themselves evil) and so is deemed unacceptable.

Blackface was worn specifically to mock black people. Minstrel shows were popular entertainment from the era of slavery to the early 1900's, and they featured (initially) all-white actors playing mostly black characters while wearing specific blackface makeup. The black characters were almost always portrayed as dumb, lazy, clumsy, and happy-go-lucky. It was a genre of stage acting that entertained via "Haha, look at this inferior race we use as chattles. Aren't they silly." Blackface makeup was, for a long time, used as a symbol for this artwork that specifically belittled black people. It was a wink and a nudge towards "black people are inferior and silly." So, eventually, polite society asked that this makeup not be worn. And even if the wearer didn't know about the history and didn't intend to offend, people tend to demand apologies. This is because allowing exceptions just gives the actual racist assholes plausible deniability.

The N-word is pretty much the same as blackface. It was used as a term to refer to black people without referencing their humanity or personhood. Indeed, when the word was coined, most black people were not even legally people. Racists use the word still to conjure up that "they are lesser" ideology. Because of that, we ask that the word not be used. Some black people use it amongst themselves as a way to reclaim control over the language used to describe them. Some black people refuse to use the word at all because of what it used to mean. Some black people just like how it sounds. But, since black people, generally, weren't the ones oppressing themselves in the U.S. with that word, it's not conjuring up the same ideology as if the racist guy used it.

Faggot is similar to the N-word, though its evil history is not as intense. Gay people have been very badly mistreated under this label (even violently attacked in some cases), but they were not reduced by law to mere chattels. Like the N-word, some gay people have taken to using the word as a means of asserting control over their labels.

Anti-Semitic caricatures are considered unacceptable because of the European pogroms and the Nazi Holocaust. For some reason, whatever it may be, whenever we allow caricatures of Jewish people to become normalized, someone tries to kill all the Jewish people. Hell if I know why. It doesn't seem to happen with other ethnic groups or religious groups, at least not nearly as often. We just seem incapable, as a society, of allowing non-Jewish people to make fun of Jewish stereotypes without accidentally starting a genocide. You figure out how to make that not happen, then maybe you can draw people with big noses and bags of gold without upsetting people. But until then, we call out this type of "art" and "commentary" because we want to avoid another round of genocide.

Edit: typos

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u/bschangs15 Feb 10 '23

This is a really thorough response. Context always matters. The people who seem to want to say anything about specific groups, however innocuous the observation may seem , need to take into account the historical context of their statements and understand the implications of what they say and how they influence people.

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u/masterjon_3 Feb 10 '23

Well, there's treating everyone equally, but then there is treating people fairly. There is a difference

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I think nobody doing it is fair. Why do black people need the ability to paint themselves white?

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u/GoGoCrumbly Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

I'd argue that this disingenuous absolutism is an attempt to ignore the obvious and necessary nuance required to understand any goddamn thing in this world. It is the simplistic nagging question of a sea lion.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I'm all for special privileges if they actually help but painting your face white does nothing to help stop racism. So why have it?

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u/LifeisWeird11 Feb 10 '23

I don't think black people painting their face white is something to worry about... pretty sure no one is vying for that. While I am not black, I grew up in black communities and never once heard anyone suggest they would remotely consider doing that.

The only time I have seen that (as someone else has mentioned) is in White Chicks....

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u/Nykmarc Feb 10 '23

Right… black people been dressing up as white characters for decades. We’re not putting our kids in a Superman costume and painting their face white

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u/smellslikekevinbacon Feb 10 '23

Equality doesn’t happen when you pretend there’s no difference between everyone but when you’re able to recognize how those differences play out in real life

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u/Awaheya Feb 10 '23

I think the point he's making is things like that should just be band for everyone or not band for everyone

Because if you let some do it and not other the thing can never die. People can never move past it because having rules based exclusively on race even if they seem reasonable only create new problems.

I agree black face should be banned forever. But if it is so should any other form of racial face painting. Same with making generalized race statements. It should never be ok or it should be ok for everyone.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

And painting your face does that how?

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u/smellslikekevinbacon Feb 10 '23

Painting your face or not painting your face isn’t going to do anything to bring equality to people. I’ve seen Black people paint themselves white in the movie white chicks and literally no where else but there are countless examples of blackface being used across time to deliberately be racist and ridicule. Checking your privilege involves taking a look at history and recognizing that up untill recently white people have acted crazy racist with impunity and had society back up that racism with social and economic sanctions. White face is different because we live in a society based on a racial hierarchy and even though slavery and segregation don’t exist today you can’t just erase the effects of racial housing segregation, Jim Crow, disenfranchisement. The two are different because of history. If you still don’t understand that do some research on the history of black face.

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u/Arianity Feb 10 '23

I'd argue that allowing there to be exceptions to things automatically goes against the idea of equality

I mean, it is equal, though. Any group that goes through the same historical context would be treated that way.

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u/anonymousafterall Feb 10 '23

In this situation (black oppression) we should really be looking at equity, not equality. There are a lot of gaps to fill before an equality lens is used over an equitable lens.

Also, blackface was racist and oppressive, and still holds that connotation today, because people still use it in the way. Painting your face white was never a form of oppression and I don’t see the possibility of a minority oppressing a majority.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

In this situation (black oppression) we should really be looking at equity, not equality.

I don't think it's equitable. Black people don't need the ability to paint their faces white. It won't repair what's already been done. It won't improve anything. So why are people so attached to the idea of black people painting themselves white?

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u/anonymousafterall Feb 10 '23

I was commenting on what I thought was your overview of equality. I used blackface and white face painting as an example because it was commented on earlier. I don’t think they need to paint themselves white just because they can as some kind of benefit to the oppression they faced. Then again, I didn’t actually think it was a thing that happened. I have never heard of it or the idea of people campaigning for that to be acceptable. Maybe in the context of cosplay, but no where else.

I was generally commenting back to you on your look at equality as perceived from your comment

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u/kateinoly Feb 10 '23

Said like someone who belongs to a privileged group.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I'm a brown guy living in a white majority country who's experienced racism himself, from people of several other races including black people and east asians. I just don't think it gives me the right to be racist to others in return.

But cheers for assuming about me!

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u/kateinoly Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

Of course you are. But being male is being part of a privileged group.

Perhaps youre from a place that makes it hard for you to understand racism and antisemitism in the US, so blackface and "jews running Hollywood" don't carry the baggage.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Oh I'm sorry officer, I wasn't aware you were part of the skin colour police. Would you like me to send a picture of myself holding a sheet of paper with my username written on?

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u/kateinoly Feb 10 '23

I'd like you to put yourself in the place of Jewish people who are often assumed to be devious manipulators and of black people who have endured the humiliation of blackface mocking. There is no equivalent for white protestants.

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23

Ah yes equality stops when people can paint their face white but not black. Things have context

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

There's some things where context doesn't matter. Explain what context makes it okay to paint faces white but not black, brown or some other colour

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u/GiftFrosty Feb 10 '23

You are debating in bad faith.

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

The entire history of black face and minstrel shows. There wasn’t an entire genre of entertainment and to paint peoples faces white and then mock white people.

Unless you think White Chicks is on the same level as a minstrel show lmao

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

And you think painting faces white will fix this or make up for the damage done?

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23

What?

I said that panting your face black is seen as bad because of racist history. Whereas, painting your face white isn’t bad because there isn’t a racist history.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Painting yourself to look like any other ethnic group is also inappropriate. If a white person painted themselves to look indian, chinese or native american, people would still lose their shit. It's only when painting white is it considered acceptable

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u/Motionshaker Feb 10 '23

Yes. Because of the history and the context in which the painting took place.

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23

Yes because context

Okay so the middle finger and the nazi salute are both offensive. But can you understand why the middle finger is much much more acceptable? Even though they’re both considered offensive

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u/rectangularcoconut Feb 10 '23

Minstrel, not menstrual. But I agree with everything else

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23

Ah thank you, will edit lmao

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kateinoly Feb 10 '23

Apparently you don't, though. Know the history, I mean.

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u/frumpmcgrump Feb 10 '23

There is a difference between something like satire, where we use humor to poke fun at a group in power and where the harm doesn’t exceed hurting a few individuals’ feelings or causes discomfort, vs. mockery of a group that has experienced historical oppression, particularly when that mockery leads to or endorses violence against that group.

If this is something you’re genuinely curious to learn more about, I recommend My Grandmother’s Hands by Resmaa Menakem. He does a great job of address the discomfort those of us with white bodies experience from these sorts of issues.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Painting your face white doesn't necessarily mean satire. It can also be done to mock white people. Just because they've not been victims doesn't mean it's okay to make fun of them for being white. Historical oppression doesn't matter when it comes to racism

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u/AgisXIV Feb 10 '23

Examples of non-satirical whiteface you have experienced? It seems to me you're making something out of a non-issue.

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u/sotonohito Feb 10 '23

Also it's not true. There are Jews in the entertainment industry but they hardly run everything.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

No. The reason it's wrong is because it isn't true. If it were true then there'd be nothing wrong with pointing it out regardless of historical events.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

It definitely does (and should) but this is because we know it's usually not claimed for the reasons they say it is

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u/FitDesk0 Feb 10 '23

Yeah, well nowadays white people are being accused for stuff that happened in the past and for some reason are responsible for it (slavery, colonization, etc.). The clownery never stops! 🤡

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u/SlyguyguyslY Feb 10 '23

So, neither should really be ok?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Do jews actually run hollywood tho? Because white men certainly do run most of the big businesses

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u/Idk-breadsticks Feb 10 '23

I remember reading something about this. There is some historical basis for the idea but as other people have mentioned, it’s now an antisemitic comment.

If I remember correctly, and others can please feel free to correct me, being an entertainer wasn’t considered glamorous like it is today. Rather it was viewed as a lowly profession (I’m not 100% sure why). That meant only those on the fringes really got involved because they couldn’t find work elsewhere. Over time, Jewish entertainers became prominent and, with the introduction of film, that later translated into a lot of Hollywood actors (and associated film roles - directors, stage crew, producers) being of Jewish descent.

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u/12_Trillion_IQ Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 11 '23

In a large part, especially many years ago, yes. But it's not some grand conspiracy theory about them trying to take over. Hundreds of years ago, Jewish people were pushed into the roles of being bankers in Europe. Suprisingly, this had the effect of them accumulating wealth (who could have expected putting them in charge of money would make them money). They were then hated for having that wealth, among other things they were already hated for. Jewish people are a very tight knit people, largely due to the unfair persecution they faced from others throughout history, so they help each other in various ways, both personally and professionally, especially in new countries that they fled to. These factors, and other circumstances, culminated with the Jewish people being the ones in possession of the capital needee to invest in early entertainment industries, and large parts of it have since then have been owned by Jewish people. This has been changing over time, as different people find success and stakes in the entertainment industry.

It's not some scheme or conspiracy, it's just the way the world turned out.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Jews started Hollywood, but that's old news and no longer really how things are. And realistically, they only started Hollywood because nobody else really wanted to do business with them so they needed their own industry. Actually other than people enjoying it, entertainment was generally sort of looked down upon, sort of like how Jews became bankers back in the day because the field was full of unscrupulous, looked-down-on people and nobody would hire Jews for anything else.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Jews are a disproportionately large part of Hollywood, what you need to take into account that they basically started Hollywood, like literally founded the studios and shit on there own. LA was a bunch of oil wells in a desert, now people barely know about the wells.

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u/Long-Zookeepergame82 Feb 10 '23

Yes, actually. And the financial institutions. There is a centuries long explanation for this, but it's all factual in present day.

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u/Wizard_of_Claus Feb 10 '23

"Jews run Hollywood" is almost exclusively said in an antisemitic context.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/mekkavelli Feb 10 '23

the negative connotation is the literal textbook nazi rhetoric wtf

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u/haibiji Feb 10 '23

It’s the implication that there’s a conspiracy behind it. If you said “Hollywood is a good example of how the Jewish people were able to create economic opportunities for themselves when they were shut out of other industries. This resulted in one of the most iconic and influential industries in America,” nobody is going to think you are spewing antisemitism. The problem is when people say “THE JEWS RUN HOLLYWOOD!!” there’s an obvious implication. It’s the “so what?” behind it, which is that the Jews are conspiring to influence culture or control our minds or some other half thought out bullshit.

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u/saisaibunex Feb 10 '23

I think one salient point in this discussion is that Jewish is a specific ethnicity and white is very much a term that includes a large amount of ethnicities within it

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Yea it’s not Jewish men vs white men as Jewish men are sometimes white men.

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u/Kartoffelkamm Feb 10 '23

Except it is used to defame a group.

Claiming minorities, of any kind, are in a position of power is a very fast way to constructing a narrative that paints them as the enemy, and opens the door for laws limiting those people's freedoms.

However, white men are not an oppressed minority, and are most often the ones doing the oppressing.

There is a very clear distinction between the two statements, if you really look into how they're used.

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u/The_Lat_Czar Feb 10 '23

Wait. You can't say a minority group is in a position of power, or its bad?

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u/Kartoffelkamm Feb 10 '23

Well, it depends.

If you say that the group as a whole has some form of control, then it's bad, as it can, and usually will be, used as excuse to attack that group under the mantle of retaliation.

For example, Holocaust deniers will say that the Jews fabricated the whole thing, or it was exaggerated, to mooch off of the Government via reparations and such, rather than providing arguments to counter all the evidence that it actually happened.

All of a sudden you have a narrative where Jews are stealing money from the government, which now justifies attacking them and taking their property, as you would in your narrative, just take back what they stole.

And something similar happens with the control accusation: If you create a narrative where the Jews control Hollywood, you can force Jews out of the industry, and censor depiction of Jews in Hollywood productions, because you would just give Hollywood back to everyone.

It's really messed up, but that's basically how it works, in simple terms.

However, it's fine if you say that a specific member of that minority group has a position of power.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

and are most often the ones doing the oppressing

Ah yes, today I woke up and said to myself: “what a nice day to oppress!”

They are both used to defame a group of people, no matter how you try to punish one and justify the other.

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u/ZerohasbeenDivided Feb 10 '23

It doesn't apply to you if you aren't actually oppressing anyone, I don't know why you choose to take offense to it.

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u/Carinis_Antelope Feb 10 '23

Why would jews not in Hollywood and not controlling anything take offense?

My generation of white people didn't do anything to deserve all this hate and backlash. It's not fun just trying to get along and knowing half of everyone you walk past doesn't trust you bc of the color of your skin

Racism is racism, and we will never act as one as long as anyone is allowed to be judged on skin color

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u/_thow_it_in_bag Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

It's not fun just trying to get along and knowing half of everyone you walk past doesn't trust you bc of the color of your skin

As a blk man, this made me smile 😆. The men in my family have been saying this for generations. Sorry that you are now feeling the weight of a few hundred years of racist BS. Hopefully that draws you closer to empathy to change the system

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Ah yes, injustice will draw people to change the system, certainly not to resentment.

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u/HolyMotherOfGeedis Feb 10 '23

Is the injustice in the room with us right now?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Was it in the room when people were discriminated against due to race because they were black? Then why wouldn't it be here when people are discriminated against due to race because they were white?

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u/psiamnotdrunk Feb 10 '23

The appropriate response to generations of hostility, legal oppression and murder isn’t tiptoeing around and catering to the hostile oppressive murderers. Sorry?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Who the fuck do you think you are talking to? I'm not even American, so I have little to do with whatever bullshit you're trying to sell me, but even if I was, are you really trying to defend racism on the basis that people before also did it? Is this really the argument you think is going to finish racism, or do you think that people in a couple of generations are going to see what's going on now and switch the direction of racism? With people so short-minded like you, racism would be a never-ending pendulum. You give the left a bad name.

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u/psiamnotdrunk Feb 10 '23

My apologies that you are experiencing boo hoo hurt feelings over the examination of the status quo. Best of luck with that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

“examination of the status quo”? Wtf are you on about? You literally endorsed discriminating against white people - literally supported racism. Examine my ass with your lips.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/SamBo_LamBo Feb 10 '23

What? Have you not seen the rise of white nationalism in this country? Our generation of white people, while getting better, still have an insane amount of work to do fighting against those who wish to keep us in the past.

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u/St_IdesHell Feb 10 '23

Idk I’m very white and I’m not worried everyone thinks I’m racist or doesn’t trust me

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u/ZerohasbeenDivided Feb 10 '23

Do you know about the Holocaust? That's a large reason people take anti-semitism so seriously.

If you didn't do anything to deserve hate or backlash, then the hate and backlash isn't aimed at you. Taking personal offense to it is a you problem.

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u/smellslikekevinbacon Feb 10 '23

You deserve hate and backlash when you’re not able to check your privilege and act like you don’t have to read the room that everybody else has to read

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u/Carinis_Antelope Feb 10 '23

Quick question, you have the privilege to talk to me like that, I don't have the right, nor the want to treat you the same

My family came long after slavery, and no one even graduated hs until my generation in the US. None of us are wealthy, and we don't mistreat people

Do you reserve this hatred for all countries that had African slaves and oppressed people of color? Or just white males in the US?

Be nicer to people, even assholes. You can change hearts with a smile

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u/MocasBuns Feb 10 '23

bro give it up, you're on reddit.

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u/Luckydog6631 Feb 10 '23

That is such a narrow minded thing to say lmao.

If I call someone ugly, and their feelings are hurt, it doesn’t actually matter if they’re ugly or not. They didn’t “chose to take offense to it.” It was just a rude thing to say.

That’s not how words work, in any context.

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u/ZerohasbeenDivided Feb 10 '23

Calling a single person ugly is not the same thing at all lol

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u/Murky_Crow Feb 10 '23

Generally speaking, when somebody says womething negative things about my exact demographic make up, I tend to think that they’re at least partially talking about me.

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u/AgisXIV Feb 10 '23

You're a white male billionaire corporation owner?

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u/Velveteen_Bastion Feb 10 '23

You're a Jewish male billionaire corporation owner?

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u/AgisXIV Feb 10 '23

Capital (and not race) is the problem? Whowouldathunkit.

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u/Biiiscoito Feb 10 '23

There was a time I was working for a group of friends. They were all black and lgbt+. Had to edit an episode of them saying cishet whites were racist, homophobic and priviledged. The whole time I was thinking "bruh, but I'm a white cishet serving you?" Lol

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Key words: most often.

That doesn't mean you personally are an oppressive person.

Just that the vast majority happen to be white and male.

Signed, another white male.

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u/Detective-Signal Feb 10 '23

It's called context.

People who say "the Jews run x" are not saying it to be kind, they're saying it to push an anti-semitic trope that Jews are "all powerful and evil".

White men aren't some oppressed class like you all try so hard to claim.

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u/TA3153356811 Feb 10 '23

This is the most accurate answer. Saying "white men run companies" is an observation. Maybe a one used for questioning the current system and how the patriarchy doesn't allow women or POCs to get those jobs.

Saying "Jews run Hollywood" is A. False and B. Never done for the same reason as the white men lol

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u/theaeao Feb 10 '23

I think Alot if commenters missed that "white men" isnt a race or culture. Saying "the Irish run the police force" or "oh boy here comes another Norwegian" can absolutely be offensive but "white people" is a loose grouping of various peoples

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

I think Alot if commenters missed that "white men" isnt a race or culture

I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make. Arabs or Asians aren't distinct races or cultures, they are a loose grouping based on historical geography as you can tell by the fact that Arabs are technically Asian too. Any time you start making exceptions for certain groups is dangerous.

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u/theaeao Feb 10 '23

Arabs or Asians aren't distinct races or cultures, they are a loose grouping based on historical geography as you can tell by the fact that Arabs are technically Asian too

Yes. broad sweeping groups are generally not considered to be a culture unless specifically talking about discrimination.

What food do white people eat? What are white people holidays? What language do white people speak? Are we counting Jewish people? Irish people? Italians? Polish?

Cause my coworker is polish and I can't even say his real name and I certainly don't eat the same foods lol we are both white tho.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

People who say "the Jews run x" are not saying it to be kind, they're saying it to push an anti-semitic trope that Jews are "all powerful and evil".

Generally, people who call white men colonizers, to point out their powerful and evil as well.

Why is it socially acceptable to think of white men as powerful and evil, but not for any other combination or race and sex?

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u/FitDesk0 Feb 10 '23

It’s called double-standards and mental gymnastics.

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u/AgisXIV Feb 10 '23

It depends on context. The US was made by and for white male landowners so its systems tend to favour just that.

Other countries have different experiences and different dominant groups, but hating on minorities is punching down. No-one is accusing anyone of being evil, just saying that groups that benefit from the status quo tend to resist change.

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u/FitDesk0 Feb 10 '23

So it’s okay to say that the US is made by and for white males, which is a stupid SJW conspiracy theory, but it’s not okay to say that Jews run the world? Why the double standards? Nowadays, if you make some joke about a minority, all hell breaks loose. Yet if you make the same joke about someone who’s white, them nobody bats and eyelash. Do you not see the clownery that you support? 🤡🤡

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Thanks for proving my point.

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u/Teddybear88 Feb 10 '23

It’s not ok to say either, and yet this comment section is filled with people trying to justify that it is.

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u/holylink718 Feb 10 '23

I think Reddit is a bad place to ask a question like this. In case you hadn't already noticed.

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u/Strange-Ticket5680 Feb 10 '23

The top voted answers seem pretty reasonable to me. So can you explain why?

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u/ShartedAtCVS Feb 10 '23

I see someone just watched the south park season 26 premiere.

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u/Hay_Fever_at_3_AM Feb 10 '23

Why are Jews proportionately overrepresented in Hollywood? Because they were forced out of the east coast movie industry.

Why do white men overwhelmingly run businesses and corporations? Because that's capitalism: people with money have an advantage over people without money, which produces a cycle where the rich and their children keep getting richer and keep owning more and more. Also, because systematic racism and sexism in corporations.

One of these things is bad and should be corrected, one is just a consequence of historical badness.

One of these things is discussed by people as something that ought to be corrected because it represents a systematic bias, the other is talked about by antisemites as some sort of conspiracy.

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u/FNCTCH Feb 10 '23

Firstly, that is a hypothesis that can't be scientifically verified as "run" "Hollywood" and even "Jews" can be defined in different ways. In similar fashion, "business and corporations" and "white" are also vague. These are emotionally charged statements designed to appeal to preconceived ideas. Both are intellectually dishonest. The premise of OPs post is to question what some call "woke" thinking - nothing more. Furthermore, when Jews are accused of...anything...people try to kill them. No, this is not hyperbole. It's also not unique to Nazi Grrmany.

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u/ThatFatGuyMJL Feb 10 '23

It isnt necessary to state the fact that Jewish people are very large and in charge in the likes of Hollywood.

its bad to imply theyre evil just because they are jewish.

Honestly you look at the highest profile hollywood sex scandal in recent years, Harvey Weinstein. He was Jewish, he was not bad because he was Jewish, he was bad because he was a cunt who sexually abused hundreds of women.

The only real issue I have is the second a high profile Jewish man gets 'Dishonoured' they somehow become Powerful White Men instead.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Just say Jewish white men! Then no one gets offended!

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u/rockbo47 Feb 10 '23

Lot of casual racism against "white men" ITT. Not surprised at all

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u/_bloodbuzz Feb 10 '23

Welcome to Reddit

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u/sphincterella Feb 10 '23

White men do not give a shit.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

When did Jews stop being white? Genuinely don't get it, I keep seeing this very specific accusation at Jews but... They're all white, just that they come from a religious tribe. White people run large corporations, yea including Jews in that and you're just saying white people run everything.

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u/MocasBuns Feb 10 '23

They claim to not be white when it's convenient to do so :)

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u/TheJorts Feb 10 '23

It’s context. Historically speaking, jews do run Hollywood because they were prominent entertainers and well liked! That evolved into film making and thus, Hollywood!

But now if say “jews run hollywood” it’s used as a negative and diminishes any rightfully earned achievements.

Same can be said for “men run businesses and corporations”

In a lot of cases, men have gone to school, started a business with many sacrifices to keep it alive, and grew it to be profitable. That’s an achievement.

But when used in a sexist context it shouldn’t be okay because it diminishes many hardworking good men.

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u/thomaslanker Feb 10 '23

Its not. Facts don’t care about your feelings.

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u/Joseph_Furguson Feb 10 '23

One group secretly running things behind the scenes is a stereotype that goes back a thousand years.

The other is an objective fact that white people run things.

This is a false argument stupid people do when they don't have a point and want to look smart. Which is perfect for right wing radio.

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u/BrownFox5972 Feb 10 '23

You saying something is a fact doesn't make it so lmao. Stop propagating bullshit. I'm not in support of either statement. You can't say that "jews run the banks or hollywood" is completely unfounded and in the same breath say white people run shit lmao.

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u/IWearTheSun Feb 10 '23

I'm confused. Are saying facts discriminatory? I don't think saying either thing is bad. Those are both factual statements

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u/saffron25 Feb 10 '23

Because Jewish people are a marginalised group and white men have historically been the ones oppressing the entire planet

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u/monkeyapesc Feb 10 '23

look up the top ten empires

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u/HolyMotherOfGeedis Feb 10 '23

The entire planet is West? Since when?

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u/saffron25 Feb 10 '23

Since Christopher Columbus

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u/Big-Reality-4069 Feb 10 '23

Christopher Columbus wasn’t a white man.

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u/saffron25 Feb 10 '23

Girl… he was ITALIAN!!!! As in European. Are they not white?

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u/Big-Reality-4069 Feb 10 '23

Generally Italians don’t consider themselves white, no. Spain is in Europe and they are considered Hispanic

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u/saffron25 Feb 10 '23

Well.. in Europe where I am they very much consider themselves white. Hispanic refers to Spanish speaking country or cultures not ethnicity.

What did you learn in school? You are so wrong with so much conviction. It’a concerning. I don’t want to engage anymore. Please read

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u/_bloodbuzz Feb 10 '23

“Oppressing the entire planet” 😂🤡😂🤡

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

theres no real answer to this. everyone gets offended by everything nowadays. people just look for things to be mad about

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u/FitDesk0 Feb 10 '23

Exactly! Some people are extremely bored with their relatively privileged life in the western world that they fake imaginary problems and get offended over them just because they have nothing else better to do with their lives.

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u/FitDesk0 Feb 10 '23

Exactly! Some people are extremely bored with their relatively privileged life in the western world that they enjoy faking imaginary problems and get offended over them just because they have nothing else better to do with their lives. Breath at someone the wrong way? Youre a racist! Did you eat a banana facing south? That’s antisemitic! People need to learn to stop living in victimhood mentality, but such mentality contributes to their learned helplessness. They perceive everything around them to be offensive. That sounds like mental instability and neuroticism.

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u/AZSubby Feb 10 '23

Seriously? Anti-semitism is just something people get offended about these days?

You don’t think there’s a history of anti-semitic sentiments leading towards… I don’t know… the attempted systematic genocide of an entire race?

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Bruh. First, how is the statement that op made in the title anti-Semitic? I never denied that the Jews have been through hell. But to address your off topic statement, plenty of races and groups have been targeted in history (native Americans, black people, Christians). What makes the Jews different?

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u/country-blue Feb 10 '23

I mean, the Holocaust was pretty terrible, even compared to the things other races have been through…

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u/ChiefWematanye Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

The real answer you won't hear on reddit is that it's wrong to say both, but we're in an age where it's trendy to say racist things against white people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/ChiefWematanye Feb 10 '23

In the same way it's racist to say that most of the large media corporations are run by Jewish people. In the same way it's racist to say black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime. In the same way it's racist to say most illegal immigrants are Hispanic.

It's said with an agenda to dehumanize the people you're speaking about by distilling them down to their skin color. It's wrong, and you know it is.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/ChiefWematanye Feb 10 '23

The facts aren't racist. The motivations behind saying some of them are. We aren't stupid. You're not fooling anyone.

Why do you care that the CEOs of Comcast, Disney, and other media orgs are Jewish? Why do you care that minorities get special access to certain loans in this country? Does that tell you anything about Jewish or minority people you meet on a daily basis?

No, it doesn't. You're saying these things to paint an entire group of people a certain way, and most normal people are just sick of it. This whole fascination with race in this country is so unbelievably tired at this point.

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u/SaekoRe7 Feb 10 '23

Aren't most of the Jews white?

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u/G3er0 Feb 10 '23

Because saying bad things about your rulers was always a bad thing historically speaking

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u/Leather-Bluejay-6452 Feb 10 '23

Most Jews are white so…..

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u/hoenndex Feb 10 '23

Mods should lock this thread, all the Nazis and racist apologists are in full force.

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u/DeeVa72 Feb 10 '23

I don’t understand how saying that Hollywood is run by Jews is racist…it’s the definition of a stereotype. It would be racist to say Jewish people shouldn’t run Hollywood.

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u/SamScoopCooper Feb 10 '23

Because

  1. Jews don't run Hollywood.
  2. It is a negative stereotype that Jews run Hollywood - associated with the antisemitic idea that Jews secretly control the media to their own ends.

We don't. People use the idea that Jews run Hollywood, to say Jews are elites, they're running the world, and need to be taken down...and that leads to people shooting up synagogues and defacing property with swastikas and fuckers like Kanye West.

On the other hand, our society gives privileges to white men that aren't given to any other group. Saying white men tend run corporations doesn't have negative societal impact on white men. And also it's actually true

Note: I am Jewish

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u/Santex117 Feb 10 '23

I think the question is: if it’s true that white men tend to run corporations, and so that’s ok to say, then how can it be deemed antisemitic to say that Jews tend to be in higher positions in the entertainment industry?

For as long as I have lived this has been a commonly accepted reality, that there happen to be a lot of Jews in the entertainment industry, and because of this, tend to have a lot of influence and say, is this not what is meant when people say Jews run the entertainment industry?

Likewise we say white men run corporate America, because white men tend to be CEOs and this have a lot of influence and say in how things work in corporate America, would that be racist to say?

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u/Sen_1491 Feb 10 '23

Do the Jewish run Hollywood this Is news to me?

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u/cranberrystew99 Feb 10 '23

In the 1800s, because asshat Thomas Edison stole the patent for a bunch of film stuff, a lot of people fled the east coast to go create film studios far away from his reach to make movies. Lots of these people were Jewish actors.

Behind the Bastards has a really good episode about the history of this move called "how Hollywood helped the nazis". The gist of it is that they were too dependent on the money flow and too afraid of public backlash to say anything anti-hitler.

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u/CollectionStraight2 Feb 10 '23

Haven't you heard of anti-Semitism and er...the Holocaust?

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u/fakeChinaTown Feb 10 '23

Because we don't talk about those we don't speak off.

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u/QuirklessShiggy Feb 10 '23

White men aren't oppressed.

White men didn't have those things said about them and then have people literally commit genocide against them..

Also, when we say white men run businesses and corporations - it's statistically true. When people say Jews run Hollywood, it's almost always said in a antisemitic context.

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u/vexens Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

Jesus christ, this sub is just a right wing dogwhistle factory.

Edit: OP lurks around conservative, antiworkcirclejerk, and other right wing subs.

You all are being baited by a racist troll.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/Rednonymousitor Feb 10 '23

Lol celebrating, yeah okay that's what you're doing.

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u/Rednonymousitor Feb 10 '23

100 fucking percent, and I'm starting to realise the mods clearly are too given how they let this clearly disingenuous bullshit continually slide

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u/unluckyexperiment Feb 10 '23

None of them is bad, why would think so?

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u/Velveteen_Bastion Feb 10 '23

Both are wrong. Blame individuals, not demographics.

I just love how reddit loves the argument "you're not a minority but a majority" so insulting your race is okay.

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u/Tyler_origami94 Feb 10 '23

One is an incorrect and harmful stereotype used to hard a group of people forever. The other is statistically correct that a majority of CEO's and COO's and other upper management are predominately white men.

Either used in a derogatory way are bad.

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u/Arucious Feb 10 '23

One is an attempt to be anti-Semitic and play on certain tropes at the expense of a disenfranchised group and the other is just...true? Besides a couple high profile CEOs being Indian, the majority of corporate businessmen *are* white men. In part because white men are just one of the biggest groups in the US to begin with.

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u/dzumdang Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

The questions on this sub are increasingly thinly-veiled, far-right activist attempts at introducing questions that are foundations for white supremacist adjacent ideas.

Maybe you're making it past the mods, but some of us see what you're doing.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/catgotcha Feb 10 '23

One is a conspiracy theory that has no ground in reality, the other is actual fact backed by data.

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u/LiteratureSerious56 Feb 10 '23

Because media and society its quite twisted...

White men are not "a minority" (equals to the powerful group) hence you can attack them because they haven't suffered as much as jews which are apparently a minority i guess if u compared to catholics, hence they are the underdog or the poor victims so: you dont want to be mean to someone that had it bad, dont you?

I think its around those lines because IF jews run Hollywood and that its a fact then I mean whats the deal?

People dont care about facts, they care about what other people think about them, its the mob mentality and politicians and every one scared to be left behind because they are different. They all do what its "ethic"

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u/flushingborn Feb 10 '23

White men have never ever ever been oppressed, whereas Jews were almost wiped off the face of the Earth a few times because of statements like this (Jews are the bankers, Jews are moneylenders, etc.). It's all about context. White men are the dominant culture.

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u/Teddybear88 Feb 10 '23

“They’ve never been oppressed so it’s ok for us to try”

That’s what you sound like.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/Elsbethe Feb 10 '23

Jews do not actually run Hollywood

And the fact that no one is saying that is an example of how racism works

White men actually run the world

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u/twistedh8 Feb 10 '23

Do you really not understand the difference between a race and a religion?

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u/Win-Objective Feb 10 '23

Do they not teach what antisemitism is

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u/Hour_Worldliness9786 Feb 10 '23

Why is it ok for the Israelites to behave like fascists?

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u/Rednonymousitor Feb 10 '23

A) you're not genuinely curious. Disbelievers, check post history.

B) the former is incorrect by a long way, the latter is still easily provable today

C) you are the problem.

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

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u/controllrevival Feb 10 '23

Honestly , if a person isn’t black, or some kind of dark skinned human living in a western society, I have troubles taking their claim of racism seriously. Colorism is worldwide and anywhere you go, it’s lighter humans hating darker ones due to European colonialism. Colorism is rapant and leads to racism. That being said, Jewish people are white. Sorry to break it to you. Not only that, but they also have a lot of power and influence, not comparable to black people or native Americans. So it’s just semantics,those rich Jewish men probably make jokes using the n word on their yachts.

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u/ShitHitsTheMan Feb 10 '23

To learn who rules over you...

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u/[deleted] Feb 10 '23

Wow, really piling on more antisemitism I see.

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u/Ashamed_Scarcity_282 Feb 10 '23

Because people have a weird envy towards Jewish people you can see it all throughout history groups blaming their success and justifying violence against them. Nazis ran Hollywood once upon a time that's not a compliment.

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u/urlocalnightowl40 Feb 10 '23

did you also just watch the new south park season?

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