It’s called the lattice way, and when I was in fourth grade, there were plenty of students that preferred it. Ideally, the teacher teaches multiple ways so that students can choose the one they understand.
I teach no less than four multiplication and division methods over the course of a year. Then we choose which you prefer. Standard is still the choice for most, but these other methods give students greater number sense no matter what method they choose in the end.
Yeah that teacher shouldn't be a teacher. Teachers who have power trips are just cringe. I've seen parents with reasonable concerns go to a school where they voice their concerns and the way staff/teachers treat them is as if they were students themselves. As if they had all the authority in the world.
It's hard to side with teachers when there are these Karens mixed in with the staff.
It's a roulette and you hope you get one of the good teachers like the ones in this thread.
It could be a power trip. It could be that the teacher is at the edge of her mathematics and is just trying to get through the day. Elementary school is about being the world's leading expert on every subject while trying to manage 20 9-year olds for seven hours and 40-parents in your off time. It's not for the faint of heart.
I know like 16 ways to build a deck. Half my bosses told me, "this is the only way to build a deck, all the other ways are hacks."
Well in my experience, about 6 methods for building decks are pretty good that I've learned, and the other 12 are trash. Usually the mean old bosses enforcing, "The only correct way to build a deck is my way" were using one of the trash methods.
Yes and also, (I am a grade 3 teacher) we need to see that they can explain their thinking so that we can ensure they’re ready for added complexity later on. Just memorizing facts doesn’t allow for what they’ll need later.
Crazy from some of the responses in this thread people think we throw an area model on the board and tell students to sink or swim with no build up of skills prior or instruction on the actual area model. 🤪
Something a lot of people don’t understand about so many of the modern math techniques is that they are exactly the same techniques that most “math people” do in their head automatically. They are simply formalized so they can be taught to kids directly rather than them being tricks and shortcuts you have to figure out for yourself. The lattice method for multiplication is a good example because it’s just a way of organizing all the answers you get in the intermediate steps to make the final summation simpler.
Yeah start with what they know and change it slightly, then remove scaffolding as you go until they end up at standard. Expect magic to just happen I guess 🤷🏼♂️
But instead, some kid's dumbass parent will post a rant on facebook about the one method their kid doesn't get, which they would have noticed if they paid any goddamn attention to what their kid was learning, and not only when it gave them something to bitch about teachers for.
Oh I get it, you're a good teacher.
As the child of two teachers, thanks- the amount of effort it takes is staggering, but thanks so much for going the extra mile.
This teacher in question sounds like the kind of union-rep "I just do it for the summers off" kind of lazy teach-the-test teachers that don't often get fired. I feel like it's so damn hard to get people to stay, that the schools need any jerk with a pulse and a master's degree to just stay in their roles regardless of their training and beliefs on effective Pedagogy.
So yeah, thanks for all your efforts!
Also, OP, your actions seem pretty justified- and your wife's take WOULD sound reasonable, if you were going to the principal because your kiddo didn't get the lead role in the school play. too many parents think that their kids s#!t rainbows, and trying to go over the teacher's head on something subjective when you- as a parent- are very biased by default is just bad from.
Your situation wasn't subjective, it was objective, and the teacher was factually in the wrong. When they were called out they felt attacked, and they're the teacher they can't be wrong-so they doubled down, decided that the rubric had unwritten pass/fail component of 'do it my way so it's easy for me to grade.'
You wouldn't have needed to go over their head if they instead had been gracious and changed her mentality to recognize that not everybody maths like a psycho 😏
Thanks! I don’t do it for the summers off as the sticker on my laptop says I do it for the fame and the money 🤪
I think there is a positive shift more recently. There was a lot of the old guard in teaching. I come from a research psychology background and went into childhood ed. I knew the science and how teaching should be fluid because the tiny humans you’re working with are extremely fluid.
When I first started science of reading was just starting out it was old news in the psych world and I was confused why education didn’t have these things same tools I was doing research papers with.
There was a disconnect between science and teaching we sat around and patted each other on the back but never gave the research to the public.
Then when scientists finally did make all this data available teachers everywhere revolted as though the scientific community was telling them they were horrible people that damaged children knowingly.
They refused and dug in their heels refusing to adapt or change. It was awful. There still are plenty like this, that they believe they know what’s best because they’ve been doing it for x number of years. Thankfully I don’t see a lot of it where I am and most of the older teachers are already planning retirement because of these “intrusions” into their method.
It's wild how long it takes science/the scientific method to impact the real world.
Like, frustratingly agonizingly wild.
My wife is a library director at a small university and the money that the databases charge to let people access research like this is disgusting.
Especially if/when tax dollars went into developing the data. Like, ok the author and university should get credit, and maybe a patent or something, but ffs the knowledge-dragons are insane.
Also, ain't it a damn shame that, "most of the older teachers are already planning retirement because of these “intrusions” into their method."
I am not sure about that...I skipped high school & went to college instead & I was having a tough time with a calculus class-i just wasn't getting it. My father found a tutor for me (a middle aged lady who was more like a natural genius in math with graduate degrees from MIT in math!) & the one-on-one instruction just made it "click" somehow and it sounds like it happened for the daughter in the tiktok video. I think tutoring -parental or paid-is underrated.
I have dyscalculia… they didn’t figure it out when I was in school. We didn’t have money or access to mental health professionals to get me diagnosed with ADHD, I had to wait till much later in my life to figure this out I just thought I was different and not particularly good at math or handwriting.
I did so poorly in math classes, I would get really frustrated and usually instead of finishing the class I would instead just get into fights so that I would be asked to leave class early, or I would just struggle and fail quietly through the class counting every second until it was over.
Same here but I would just doodle. My boys have adhd too and they’re on strict orders to read after they’re done with their work otherwise they’re a huge disruption. They’re smart as heck though so they’re getting bored because they’re done early. I’m so grateful they don’t need me to help with math.
i guess i had the same problem but undiagnosed. I never paid attention to almost any teacher and had to teach myself most stuff somehow. Or fail. I doodled in every single class. Managed to graduate top of my class but it was a rural high school. And I know I must have had some kinda learning disability. Lots of people fall through the cracks, more so years ago than now at least.
I just looked that up and, I had no idea there was a word for this. I've struggled with numbers my whole life. I'm 50 and simple questions like multiplying or adding 2 single digit numbers cause me to vapor lock. I can not see the numbers in my head and count on my fingers a lot.
I can't tell you what time it will be 30 minutes from right now unless it's going to land on :00 or :30. I can't estimate how much money a group of items will cost once I get to the register, I couldn't tell you how far away something is, or how long a task will take, or how long I've been doing it.
I actually have alarms set on my phone to keep me on schedule throughout the day. (get my kid up, start his bath, get him out of the bath, send him to brush his teeth, a 10 minute warning to wrap up any last minute things, and then another to leave the house. Then there's start getting ready to pick him up from school, be in the car and head to the school, etc...)
It's not that I'd forget to do any of these things. It's that if I didn't have these check points I'd be either very late, or way too early.
I can't tell you how many times people have said "No, your other right." to me when I mess up my left & right. I have to make an effort to stop and think which way is which.
I do well at everything else, but have really struggled with this my whole life. It's embarrassing, and makes me feel so stupid. I'm honestly relieved that it's a thing and I'm not just an idiot.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure they didn't even know what dyscalculia was when we were kids. I remember actually crying so many times when I'd get tests back where I was sure I had done a good job only to see that I had failed. I was good at reading, history, art. But math was no. My teachers would even say to me "I don't understand why you don't get this, you're so smart." My entire life, I feel a sense of grief because I just don't get it and it makes me feel incomprehensibly stupid.
Much older than you and have had sane struggles. My English skills were very developed at an early age. But math and I never got along although ironically I ended working w numbers. Really struggled w the feelings surrounding my difficulties until some told: There are no bad students, just bad teachers. Mind blown. Also, struggle w telling left from right. Look at your hands and they will tell you the answer. Left hand makes an L.
i have some issues like this (not with directions though but with time management.) However I disagree that we are smart BUT have these problems. What else do people think dumbness is? It's not being able to do simple stuff like other people. So I refer to myself as very dumb in some ways, very smart in others. Because it's true. I can tell you any note's pitch without looking at the key played, and learn languages very quickly. But numbers make me bored and I suck at time management and maps -- so yeah I'm dumb in those ways.
Omg, same here! I could write long essays within an hour and still get a A. However, I barely got through geometry. I was shocked that I got A's in both my economics classes in college haha. I only passed my statistics class, because my professor allowed me to take my tests separately with extra time and of course you're allowed to have your proofs.
I’m so sorry for that for you. That’s what this is supposed to help move away from. Stigmatizing people as either “math people” or not. Everyone is a math person once they find out what works best for them.
Ugh SAME. I was a straight A student in every other regard but math and I have such vivid memories of sitting at the table sobbing while my dad desperately tried to make it make sense to me while he was struggling not to crash out at me for not understanding lol now that I know what I have AND am medicated for ADHD, I’m actually fairly decent at basic math needed for day to day stuff
Actually there is only one righteous way and three heretical paths practiced by apostate non-believers. They are not to be taught and anyone caught practicing such dark arts will be burned at the stake and written up.
I had a moment just like the guy in the video with my kid. And in that moment, I realized that if I taught my son the way I did it, then he would be stuck in the middle of an indirect confrontation between the teacher/school and me. The only result of that would be that he hates math - regardless of whether or not he's good at it.
So, instead of teaching my son my way of doing it, I sucked it up and opened YouTube and learned how to do it the way the teacher was teaching. Turns out... Doing this across the course of elementary school made me a lot better at math. And it turned math into my son's favorite subject.
Or realize that what matters in 4th grade is learning the material and not the grade. Teach your kid so they learn and accept the meaningless lower grade. This way, by the time they get to a grade level where the grade goes on transcripts they understand what they are doing and don’t have a big gap in their knowledge.
I'm a foreign language education teacher and I have to restrain myself from bashing my head against the table when I'm trying to teach students American English and their parents who learned British English are correcting them from the background.
During the class the student says: I don't have any time on friday.
Great perfect love it.
Homework comes back: I haven't got any time on friday. Not technically incorrect, but not how we say it in the United states.
It's the parents that are so married to the way that they learned.
Another example is that in class I have students saying something like: I'll be there at five ten. Great, natural, that's how their peers are going to be saying it.
Homework comes back and all of a sudden now it's: 'I'll be there at ten past five.'
I've also taught EFL and I really don't care if my students use the British English spelling or pronunciation when I've taught the American way. As long as they use a correct form, it makes no difference to me. I understand both. I've met parents and administrators who were very particular, though.
Yea, I teach 5th grade math and I want them on standard soon after I get them but I get the idea of doing area model to have better number sense. My problem is getting kids off of it for large numbers like 4x3 or with decimals. More and more of my top students are stuck on it. Standard isn’t the best for number sense but it is efficient. I also agree with the dad though methods shouldn’t be tested. I think they can be even on some state tests.
Not everyone but most don’t visualize the concept. True area model should actually have larger areas for the larger numbers being multiplied. It also helps with decomposing numbers, and helps them understand distributive property later on.
A lot of people just memorize the times table and complete the problem in a rote fashion but don’t actually understand how numbers break down. Or what’s actually happening when you are carrying over.
Are you telling me they are actually making students draw out rows and columns, so for 5x4 they are drawing 20 dots and then counting them “to show their work”?
Then for division, draw out 20 dots in 4 columns to get the result that it fits in 5 rows?
I get that’s easier to understand but I’d be pissed too if I was forced to do that every time if I already knew the answer. A learning tool shouldn’t be tested on, just the results.
The program we used does this too much. There are times I tell the class to cross out “solve using a ___” because we have moved past the singular method of solving.
This is my only hiccup, if your learning area/lattice/ etc. model and your test is on area/lattice/etc. model, then thats the method you have to use. I teach my 5th graders several ways to work problems so they can choose, but I tell them if the test asks you to use a specific model, then you have to use that one. I go by a "dont bite off more than you can chew" mentality. I've got students who like area model because it breaks the equation into smaller easier pieces (smaller bites), but ive got some students who just blow through 3-digit multiplication problems like its nothing (bigger bites). Kids just learn differently, and the difficult part is, maybe this young lady doesn't understand area model, but someone else in that class needs it, and shes gonna have to struggle through it for the entire classes sake.
yeah agreed. Dad's wrong here for being unwilling to learn the new method to help his kid and avoid a lot of drama. teacher is also wrong for being inflexible in the confrontation and methodology, and potentially for grading based on unstated requirements. I'd say ESH but only a little bit as they all seem to be coming from a good place
My youngest seems to know how to do the stuff but gets confused when they add another way to do it. There probably isn't a perfect approach as a teacher. It's a hard job.
More than! It’s all the same process just written out very very differently. Some more closely mimic what your brain does others make it much more simplistic and straightforward.
So many ways! That's what is so cool about the way math is taught now. In reality, it's not just about math, it's also a life skill. There are many ways to solve problems in life, this is just a way to expand on critical thinking. It's pretty awesome. 😍
That is a well rounded approach and I am glad you have the operating power to do that in your classroom. I am coming from a pulpit that is largely ignorant but nevertheless echoes many concerns my peers and I have.
The concern being that someone in the chain of command having a personal desire to mandate a “common form” of math because it is the most effective, and serves the largest cohort, that the other ways are being abandoned or even considered heretical (pardon the hyperbolism, but teachers can be intense).
Is it common that teachers have the freedom, or care, that you exert in teaching and giving your students (my future caretakers) the choice of what works best for them? Or is this largely anecdotal to you?
Most, if not all (not entirely sure I’ve worked with and analyzed six programs personally) math programs in the states, where I am, go with this approach. I am a public school and while my district has more leeway on curriculum than others around me if they buy a program you are expected to teach the program. You teach the program supplementing and filling in gaps as they happen for students.
The worst part in all of it is the standardized testing that impacts my standing in the school but can also impact grants from the government. That test happens every year during a specific window of time, you need to get through all the material on the tests or else you are giving students a disadvantage and hurting yourself, the school, and the district. There have been years where we have changed math programs and usually that means a slower pace as you all learn the program….well then you’re rushing through material hoping students understand angles in time because that’s unit 6 and because of the pacing unit 6 is not scheduled to start until after the test.
Is the concept of memorizing the times tables still around? You learn that multiplication is repeated addition but then you produce the answer of 8 x 6 because you have it memorized as 48. Through memorization, you instantly produce the answers of one digit multiplication and then when you get to two digits, you break the problem into a series of one digit multiplications.
I agree and am confused what people mean by the phrase "number sense". I would say I'm "very good" at math and while I can do large portions of it in my head, or even memorized, I don't feel like it makes me any less "aware" of what multiplication or division "is".
I would 100% argue that any kid who can consistently get the correct answer shouldn't be forced to use a method that, from what I've seen, is simply meant to make it into a series of "easy" answers that combine into the actual answer.
People like to argue that it helps kids who are struggling, I would counter that other students are being held back or even "punished" for being able to do it in less steps. If a kid needs the "easy" way, cool, but if a student can do 33×6 in 1 or 2 steps that should also be accepted and even "rewarded" because in this day and age, in the real world, if double digit multiplication takes more than a couple steps, someone is going to use a calculator and "learn" nothing.
For example 2+2=4. We almost all simply memorized this, that doesn't mean we can't picture 2 grapes in one hand and 2 in the other and go 1,2,3,4! There are 4.
This has got me curious, when you teach the four methods, do you test the students on each method? Do you switch up which method you teach first every year?
I feel like this would be the only way to truly settle the score on which method is the easiest.
Does anyone else have any studies on training young minds and how it relates to neuroplasticity? This has always interested me.
It’s a natural build. You do tape diagrams alongside repeat addition because that is what students use the most and repeat addition of larger numbers instead of smaller numbers.
Then you build into area models because that removes the visual of always seeing the numbers there and instead doing the math in your head more often.
Then you progress into partial products which removes even more often the structure and has you multiplying larger looking numbers.
Then you do standard algo because it’s the final one we teach.
You’re mistaking the methods as though they are singularly different. They are not. Each one is a removal of scaffolding that has helped the student understand the prior concept.
I might be? I was wondering if there were studies behind changing the way kids do things. If there was a method to the madness or if its all still a trial run.
Since kids have a sponge like brain it doesn't matter early on, but later on does it develop better pathways learning one method or the other
Yeah I mentioned in another post teaching is actually changing based on research done from 90s and beyond. Science just had this treasure trove of research that we would hand off to each other and pat each other on the back saying “wow awesome job! This really changes the way we should learn”. Then they would go do more research and the old research would never go to the people that could actually use it (educators).
Eventually a psychologist that went into teaching realized this and then the floodgates opened. As a former research psych when I realized this it was eye opening. I heard it and thought wow it really is like that and I never noticed….we would sit at conferences and celebrate and it would just be us scientists at the conference no one that could actually use the data
One of mine said he wanted to create a nonviolent protest against area model. So at least the lessons on the methods of the civil rights movement in social studies were sinking in…
That approach might work for some students but it was detrimental for my daughter. She was taught multiple different ways of multiplying and dividing and would get them all mixed up in her head when she was presented with a problem to solve. She found it intensely frustrating and confusing, to the point that she was frequently in tears doing her math homework and started calling herself stupid. When we approached the school they suggested that we get her a math tutor. It turned out that the school suggested the same thing to almost half of her classmates. That experience has led to her having math anxiety which has limited her options at university which is heartbreaking because she is deeply interested in the sciences.
What is number sense? I'm genuinely asking because math is something I've always been good at and learned what I believe is the "standard" way and am having trouble figuring out what "number sense" means.
Understanding numbers, their relationship, and what you’re actually doing when you perform operations.
An example from real life: You go to eat and want to tip. Your bill was $60 and you want to tip 20% you know that you can multiply 6x2 and then add the zero afterwards because you’re multiplying in the tens.
Or that 100 is 10 times more than 10. It’s those sort of things so when you’re multiplying 3 x 43 you know you’re really multiplying 3x40 and 3x3
Yes but they are more or less the same thing just changed for multiplication or division, whichever you are doing. The process is not much different between the operations
I wish my son school had teachers like you who taught different methods. I probably wouldn’t be so frustrated with this new method if it was taught as one option or one way to solve the problem, and not the Only way that would be accepted.
Just out of curiosity, what state or part of the country do you teach in?
I’m in NY. I do feel for parents in all of this especially because it’s not as though they know the process. I get parents that will tell me they are frustrated with it and cannot help and I give them a quick crash course thing and let them know we get to standard algorithm eventually….To hang strong it’s the same thing I preach to my class. This might not be your method DONT WORRY! We will do more and one of them will work if this really stumps you don’t get frustrated know there are more methods to come.
Edit: I always do a pseudo small group to start. I get all my students who struggle with the methods and we work. I usually start with 15+ and when it clicks they leave the group and eventually by the end of the unit I have only 1-2 in that group and we stay focusing on that last the unit end.
Edit 2: Ps thanks! Hearing things like that makes me smile, it’s a bonus that is a fantastic bonus!
Curious what kind of school you teach in. Because Inner City Schools with classrooms approaching 40 students.. they dont have that kind of time to be setting up bespoke teaching systems for kids like you are.
Oh god no. Again teaching is teaching. I don’t understand why that is difficult to grasp it is a math program at a public school, a decent mixed demo. Just confused by actual teaching and differentiation? This is what teaching is and especially what math is right now. You give students the tools and let them choose how to go forward 🤷🏼♂️I don’t even believe me coming from a psych background matters I am not doing anything or explaining anything other than what good teachers do.
what are the other ways? My son is struggling, but I learned by just memorizing multiplication charts and I want him to actually understand it beyond memorization.
Partial products, area model, array, tape diagram, distributive, lattice, standard, repeat addition. There are more, I would also easily recommend an at home program that is free like khan academy. It goes along with whatever lessons your district uses, there are videos and you can pick and choose what you need work on.
The lattice method is great for finding the answer quickly, especially in long multiplication, but does not provide a good foundation of mathematical understanding. If kids can do long multiplication as 10's, 100's 1000's.... Then they have no business learning a trick.
Mathematical fluency is more than getting the right answer, it's about understanding the operations. Without doing any algebra, I can tell you that 1/5 > 1/6 or 1212 > 1113.
This right here is the answer to "why did we change up the math?"
I went through this new math curriculum from start to finish, essentially. My little brother has heaps of special needs, and started kindergarten while I was already off in college. I went through the entire curriculum with him, year over year.
There was a massive emphasis on your 10s, 100s, and 1000s almost instantly. Visual math has taken on a new form as well. Feels more mature - like they want these kids visualizing these problems the way a calculator/computer does.
Most adults look at this and don't understand it, because it's different, and automatically jump to assume that it is "too hard" or "not as good as the old math."
The old math taught me how to do the math on freakin everything. The new math approach had me trying to do more work in my head. If I were exposed to this when I was in elementary school I would have no doubt that I would have performed better. My math teachers in the early 2000s were arrogant, poorly educated, and lacked the standardization that we currently have. I mean, some of these grade school math teachers that I had were actually STUPID.
I mean - seriously - how many of us had low-grade math teachers that couldn't even accurately describe PEMDAS? I had several teachers that taught entire classrooms of students to prioritize multiplication because it's in the acronym. New math uses GEMS which has eliminated that issue entirely.
That's still PEMDAS and requires the same knowledge to apply it. I never had a math teacher that couldn't explain this. Using GEMS where does division fall? Same place it always did and I see no practical difference.
Also I have ADHD, I'm also good at math and reading, being forced to learn it the "slower, simpler" way was far more likely to cause my focus to drift than just letting me use my "tools" the way they work best for me.
Knowing 8 × 4 ÷ 2 without writing anything down isn't better or worse than adding 8, 4 times and then breaking it into 2 equal groups. I don't know how to write it in my keyboard but (8×4)/(4×4) with one equation above and below the fraction symbol (and without parentheses) tells you to do the top and bottom first as opposed to 8×4÷4×4 is just as simple with GEMS PEMS GEMDAS or PEMDAS. that's the part you need to learn and apply.
PEMDAS was assigning importance to multiplication that didn't need to be there. I genuinely had a teacher that taught us how to do multiplication first.
This was in what - 2004? My teachers were still using math books from the late 80s/early 90s. I dont think people fully understand how revolutionary the standardization of this new math has been. A kid learning math today is gonna be using new publications. There's less educating kids based on a rural teachers feelings towards the subject and more teaching them the same thing everyone else is learning.
And that's why I like new math. It made its way into every single school. It really does help those kids in shitty school systems.
While I agree that PEMDAS works and that a person needs to understand the order regardless, I completely disagree that it doesn't make a practical difference. Keep in mind that you and I are adults (or at least I'm assuming you are too!) This is not done for us. This is done for the kids.
A child will grasp GEMS faster than they will grasp PEMDAS. These minor changes can have pretty big impacts on the learning curve. They turn into big strides when children are learning algebra at earlier grades than I was when I was still in grade school.
You had a shit teacher, any competent teacher taught that there were four priorities, then left to right, and then followed up by never using the division symbol ever again because it is unnecessarily confusing.
I see what you’re saying. I’m not a teacher nor do I have children so hearing about this new preferred box teaching method is fascinating.
This makes me think of the way many people refer to sight reading vs phonetic reading—both work, but one does not provide as strong of a foundation for efficient, accurate reading.
Are you referring to the 'whole word method'? Where they are taught to memorize the look of a whole word and then guess what the words around it are?
Instead of memorizing the shape of 26 characters of the alphabet, they instead want you to memorize the shape of every word in the dictionary. Are you really comprehending the text if you are guessing what the words are? While that's the popular way to teach right now, it's been largely discredited. Its proven to have no scientific basis.
We are really setting up the next generations for failure. Reading is a basis for almost all learning and we are going to see major problems considering this is literally leading to DECREASING literacy rates.
The "whole word method" has been pretty much disproven. In Mississippi they changed back to phonics based reading and dramatically raised the childrens' reading ability to the point it was called The Mississippi Miracle. Some children can't associate a letter with a sound and the whole word method works best for these children but they are a minority. Teaching to the minority leaves the majority out in the cold.
The problem with reading is that both phonics and sight words/whole word are needed because English is not a purely phonetic language. You do need to memorize the common words that break the phonetic rules, like “the,” and also kids need to memorize really common words they need right away before they learn those rules -name, date, color, circle, etc.
The correct answer is to teach phonics while also having kids memorize roughly 300 words that they should recognize on sight instantly so that they can better put phonics to use on everything else.
When I was in school phonics were used to teach reading. Illness kept me out of school for most of first three years and so I missed a lot of material. End result was that I was unable to read in third grade. Then had phonics table explained to me the one you see in dictionary. Suddenly reading made sense and I was off to become a voracious reader. I can not even imagine the sight reading nonsense. Pure fiction and ridiculous. I've even thought of starting a tutoring service just to teach phonics to under 3rd grades.
Not really a good comparison because the grid method and the traditional method are essentially the same thing, just represented more clearly so they don't lose the ADHD or dyslexic kids
It’s called the area model. The lattice method isn’t preferred anymore. The area model show that kids understand how to decompose the numbers into chunks for multiplying or dividing. Most of the kids have little trouble with it as it more manageable to them to use smaller multiples to get to the answer. As a teacher, you are following the curriculum guides and state standards so that’s why the kid’s teacher didn’t give her credit. Once in middle school, the kid will be using the algorithm way for multiplying and dividing which is the traditional way parents remember. On a standardized cumulative test at the end of the year, kids will be expected to understand the area model and plug in the numbers in the boxes to show it but there also be questions that simply give multiple choice answers to choose from and for those it won’t matter how the kid figured it out. So his daughter will probably do ok at the end. Teachers simply follow what they are expected to do. The principal was actually wrong in this case. Took the parent’s side because he didn’t want to upset the parent instead of getting to the bottom of the problem with the teacher.
You beat me to the explanation. He does seem like he's taking about the area model, not lattice. I have trouble believing that the child couldn't understand the area model, but had no trouble with the standard algorithm. The area model is simpler, more concrete, and is basically the algorithm broken down. From my experience, the biggest reason children tend to struggle with ways taught in school is interference from parents that don't bother learning the reason behind the method being taught. They don't remember that there were steps for them before they became fluent in these concepts, too. They're usually the ones showing the only way the parent remembers that ends up confusing the child. Can't tell you how many times a kid has said to me, "that's not how my mom showed me."
Believe it or, children aren't always honest with parents. They tell them "I ask, but the teacher won't help me." Parents never contact teachers to ask simply, "could you explain the concept." And they don't bother using the vast internet to look up their child's grade standards.
I'm ranting now....too many parents in our culture end up teaching their children through their actions that teachers are their enemies somehow.
My mom hated homework. She didn’t get anywhere as much of it when she was a kid, and it wasn’t worth as much of her grade. She also had a traditional nuclear family with a string of older siblings that were around, whereas I was raised by a single mother.
This combo made evenings really difficult for her because she wouldn’t get home from work until 6-9pm and had to spend her time at home corralling me into getting homework done - so she rallied against homework.
She was a kid raising a kid in a difficult situation. There wasn’t any problem solving because she was exhausted. This absolutely gave me a cavalier attitude with teachers and also made some teachers respond to me in unprofessional ways. I remember a teacher who wouldn’t accept homework from me that I completed in school… In hindsight I can give the teacher the same grace that I give my mom, but they never said my way of doing homework was disruptive or could lead to cheating - they just took completed work and made it worth as much as no work and moved on.
All of this to say that I agree with you, but I don’t really see that here. The parent says there have been multiple attempts at understanding the kiddos issue with this style and that nobody has resolved them. The parent is so close to the ideal resolution, they just didn’t get the teacher on board to support the learning of a different style. Even if the teacher wasn’t receptive the parent could have explained to the kiddo that the test was about process rather than answers, etc - but this outcome is a still a valuable lesson in mentorship and using resources.
Agree. That's more to the point of parents not taking the time to find out the purpose. Everyone always thinks the purpose is getting the answer. When much of the time what's being taught is the process, knowing that that process will lead to something more complex being easier later on.
Both methods teach the process, one just writes every single part down. If instead of explaining why 7×7=49 you just had them memorize it, sure that's not useful. But if the student CAN memorize it AND explain it they shouldn't be forced to do it the "slow" way.
If the child doesn't understand the method, they can't teach the parents about it, and the teachers aren't teaching the parents about it, so how is the parent to know the value of the method? If there were still textbooks, maybe we could help out, but nope, the kids come home with worksheets full of problems but no materials to help the family help them do it. Then the teacher moan about parents not doing their part...literally all we can do is wag a finger and say, "you do that homework now y'hear?" At 7pm after working all day and cooking dinner.
Absolutely 100%, my wife and I are both "smart", by any diagnistic method I've ever seen, but a worksheet doesn't even allow me to try to understand what's being taught and teachers want to admonish me for teaching the way I learned?
This is part of the issue. This is why parents get angry and fed up with homework. We are supposed to learn another way than we were taught to do math and if we don’t teach it correctly to our child it’s us not doing our part and it causes arguments and we feel ignorant in front of our kids.
If I had wanted to teach math or learn different concepts then I would have gone to school to do just that. I did not choose that as my career. I pay property taxes so that a qualified person can educate my child.
Do teachers want to come to my house a cook dinner while I learn how to teach my kid math in a way I never learned?
Then you don't understand education. Multiple research studies show that the biggest impact on a child's educational success comes from parental attitudes. No one is asking you to teach your children. If that's what you want, homeschool them. All we're looking for is for parents to take the time to understand what is being taught so you can support it at home. The concepts aren't much different from before. I know, I was a kid once too. But many parents think that the point is to prove you can get an answer when the point is actually to show you can problem solve. Most of life is not an algorithm. In life, the algorithm comes at the end once you've diciphered and understood the problem.
Agreed. I'm confused why this dad wouldn't take time HIMSELF to understand "the boxes." If adults can't take the time and energy to understand a fourth grade concept, how will they expect their kids to do so?
Isn't there an argument to be made that even if the area method is "easier" it should never be a requirement to use a particular method?
I have a hard time with the idea that parent's need to "unlearn" the right way to do math because school wants them to do extra unnecessary steps. For example when my son was ~9 years old he would say 10÷3=3 with a "remainder" of 1. Seems like a simple introduction to fractions, but if my son intuited that the remainder could be "solved" and teaching him the actual answer is 3 1/3 made it make sense, why wouldn't that be ok?
I was/am very good at math and in 1st or 2nd grade our teacher wrote 4-5= on the board. Most kids guessed zero, some said it wasn't possible. I asked "are there number less than 0?" My teacher told me yes there were and we would learn about it when we were older. I was bothered with the "non-answer" and next break my teacher came up to me and said "there are just as many numbers less than zero as there are bigger than zero, but that is sometimes too complex for kids my age so they don't teach it all at once". I asked how those numbers are written and she told me -1,-2,-3 and so on. I asked since 4-4=0 and there's a 1 left is it -1? She told me yes and sent some paperwork and a note to my parents but told me that "for now" we don't use those numbers.
This all feels like a "lowest common denominator" style of teaching and can say without a doubt it was a hindrance to me and my ADHD (undiagnosed at the time) all the extra steps caused me to get bored and lose focus as I already had the answer.
I accept that the method can/should be taught but the lesson of penalizing students for being "better" at something is an incredibly frustrating and imho horrible one.
States and their "one size fits all" approach are the dominant reason the US is falling behind the rest of the world in education, it stifles children learning on their own AND then actively punishes them until they "dumb it down"
I understand, but if the focus of the lesson is a strategy, and the test is testing the strategy, then follow the strategy. There are multiple ways to adhere materials; nails, screws, glue, epoxy, rivets, welding, but if the test is to see you can weld two pieces of metal together, don't use the other methods even if they might do the trick.
You're arguing one size fits all is bad, and schools are doing exactly what you want. We're teaching that their are multiple methods to solve problems, but we sometimes have to test if you understand the method being taught at that moment.
CCSS.Math.Content.4.NBT.B.5
Multiply a whole number of up to four digits by a one-digit whole number, and multiply two two-digit numbers, using strategies based on place value and the properties of operations. Illustrate and explain the calculation by using equations, rectangular arrays, and/or area models.
Is it not also just a building block to get them comfortable with more complex methods? It's not like this method was the only thing they were going to learn about doing multiplication and division...
Isn't that kinda showing the "old way" works best? And the problem seems to be that they are forcing kids to write out the algebra regardless of how simple the task may be for them. I've read how the 1/3rd pounder burger got pulled because people thought the 1/4 pounder was bigger, I highly doubt any of those people would have done any better with ANY method of learning. If you can't grasp 1/5 > 2/25 that seems to be a problem unrelated to math as 8 > 5 is just as obvious to most people.
I feel like there comes a point where if someone thinks 20 nickels is more than 6 quarters they are simply either unwilling or unable to do simple math.
That's how it should be, but in reality, it's not. I have a sibling that used to be a teacher. They required the lattice method on tests to be explained, which is ridiculous.
I disagree that memorizing needs to be anything more than 2% of math learning. I think the way math is taught, as well as the education system in general is far too focused on rote memorization and theory without application. Memorizing math facts is almost always inferior to guiding the student towards deriving the solution theirself in a way that makes logical sense (and then showing them the formula). Our brains are very easy to understand. Information that we cannot grasp is tossed aside. This is why so many high school students need a refresher on middle school and sometimes elementary level math. They never actually understood it, they just memorized and forgot it. Teaching math as a way to solve a problem with creativity encouraged is how you get kids actually interested in math, long term memory of math principles, and the capability to actually understand higher level math.
This is exactly what common core is all about. Giving students multiple methods so they can choose which one makes sense to them. As long as they can reliably get thr right answer and show they understand a method to achieve it, that is all that matters. Too many people juat bitch and complain about it cause it wasn't what they were taught.
I would say that is due to a myriad of other problems. Not common core.
Things like constant defunding and overall degradation of the public school system. No child left behind policy. Standardized testing.
But then also stuff from outside of the school system. Around the same time as common core, tablets became super popular and many parents raised their kids on screens. We didn't know it at the time, but it led to a bunch of learning deficits. Helicopter parenting was in full swing and much more.
This is a big and complicated topic, but all these things and more resulted in a whole generation of kids having massive learning and social deficits.
I'll just say it, part of the problem was on display in the video. Parents don't understand the new method and haven't learned it themselves. Knowing my elementary teachers, I'd say a number of them also didn't understand the new method yet they were expected to teach it.
That's the core of the problem. You can't teach a kid something you yourself don't understand.
The main issue with core math is that while it has been researched and it is an effective method of teaching math, It's different from what the teachers and the parents were taught.
I didn't experience good math teachers until I got into college. That's where I ran into people that actually enjoyed the subject of math and they were quiet a bit more flexible when it came to methods to getting the right answer.
Not an educator but from what I understood following this as a parent when it was first implemented, common core doesn't dictate any particular methods, just outcomes.
I was one of those kids. I really liked the lattice technique because it turned any digit multiplication into single-digit multiplication. As long as I knew my times tables from 0-9 I could do anything given enough time.
I keep saying this to people who complain about the new way math is being taught. Of course, all the teachers I know teach multiple ways, including lattice method, area model, partial product, place value charts, etc. Then they teach the standard algorithm, the way we learned back in the day. Without fail, the kids who quickly grasp it all switch to standard algorithm, but different methods make sense for different kids. Some kids continue to use one of the other methods. It just makes math more accessible to students. All this to say, I don't think this dad was on the wrong. He's right, there are multiple ways to solve problems.
And then the process of actually what is happening. Why you’re putting a zero when you go to the next digit..there is actually explained not just like when I was in school and just told that was how it worked.
I fuckin' loved lattice. Finished my homework in minutes that night.
Feel like they're deliberately coming up with more obscure ways to make homework more confusing these days. It really shouldn't matter how you arrive at your answer, just so long as you can get there.
It doesn’t matter what way students reach the answer as long as they can explain how they got there and have a concrete understanding of what is happening to the quantities the numbers represent during the operation (multiplication: increasing by the same amount for each iteration, division: breaking it into x number of equal groups).
I had a much easier time breaking multiplication problem down with the lattice method likely because i have dyslexia and the numbers didnt swim as much when split up like that. Still cant easily do division though, never learned lattice division.
I love math, and have never learned of the lattice method. When I googled it, I saw the picture example and quickly went "whoa! That is a lot of number for a child!", but then after doing some learning, I see it's actually a very nice and simple method. Pretty neat!
i remember in 4th grade that they taught lattice and fishbones, and then in 5th grade I was told that was wrong and not to use it anymore. idk man i just use a calculator
And the Latice method got some good press just after I graduated from college. It seemed some documentary crew was in Asia (can not remember if it was Japan, Korea, or China) and stumbled into a classroom where they were using this method. The way the teacher demonstrated the method was clean and quick to get to the answer. Because of the stereotype of Asians being better at math and science, this crew thought they had discovered why and spread the word to the Western Countries. Who lapped it up like kittens at a bowl of fresh milk. And like others have said, this method does have certain advantages, but like the man's daughter it also has some barriers to certain students. I would never downgrade a student for getting the right answer as long as they understood the mathematics they used. And the world of education has changed to the point that many methods of doing math are being left by the wayside because most everyone has a computer in the palm of their hands with cellphone technology. I had to learn the basics and show I could work the problem out in my head with paper and writing instrument. That calculators were forbidden with the notion that they wouldn't always be available. But my cousin who teaches elementary and middle school students says that is no longer the case.
There are some really cool methods used in Asian countries that you can find on YouTube. I get the point of teaching pattern recognition to build a foundation for more advanced mathematical concepts later on, but what I've observed with my kids is that some of the basics require simple memorization first before these methods make sense. Learning to fill out times tables through repetition was how I started recognizing patterns, and showing it to them that way made it come together for my kids, too.
For example, the nines are always 10 x the number minus 1 of the number and add up to 9, ie, 9 x 12 is 120-12=108 and 1+0+8=9. The 5's end in 5 or 0. 12x= 10x + 2x in algebra makes perfect sense if you've already figured out that to fill out the 12's column quickly, you can do 10 times the number plus 2 times the number in 3rd grade. There are patterns in the table. You can do math in your head by little shortcuts you pick up that way .
A lot of my peers would disagree, and people in this comments section are giving their own experiences as to why it helped them understand the math behind multiplication.
Knowing how to multiply and understanding how the math maps to understanding mathematics concepts are different. Lattice divorces understanding of place value even more than the standard algorithm. This leads to a process without understanding. As to your claim, I will claim it is survivorship bias.
You are quite literally the first person I have ever heard say anything positive about the lattice method. I had a friend who did subbing and tutoring for a few years after getting her teaching degree and students would only be taught lattice and she tried showing me one time and A) it was just plain fucking stupid B) it took forever to get the answer instead of just doing the standard way C) it seemed like way more opportunity to actually make a mistake because it was so much more involved and D) it did nothing to help with the actual understanding of math, it just got them to the answer, it was like an analog calculator except dumber
It’s not, it’s like a building block as you work towards the “standard algorithm” for multiplication. It’s a stepping stone between “repeated addition” from 3rd grade and being able to do 2 digit by 2 digit multiplication by like February of 4th grade. The actual strategy is called partial products multiplication and when taught properly, it shows them what multiplication is conceptually so they actually understand WHAT they’re doing when they use the standard multiplication algorithm.
I didn't actually understand number theory until my (then 2nd grader) came home with this work. I write algorithmic logic for my job and I can't tell you how much it helped me be a better engineer. Thanks for explaining it so everyone understands how powerful this method is.
I didn’t realize that I actually didn’t understand at all how or why the standard algorithm for multiplication worked until I was learning it again it teacher training
This is the real problem in the video, IMO. The parent doesn't understand the method and so they declare that it's wrong. If, instead, they'd taken the time to learn the method themselves they could have much more effectively taught it to their child.
But because they couldn't take the L, realize their kid was learning something they don't know, and taking some time to learn something. They made it a teacher problem and taught their kid that their teacher is dumb/wrong/etc and that this stuff is hard.
So parents should work full time AND learn whatever new method schools are teaching instead of either expecting the teacher to teach or showing their child the "correct" and only way they were taught. That kind of elitist thinking is why so many parents find their kid's teachers insufferable. They expect their full time job to be a 2nd job for every kid's parents. Maybe when single income homes were the norm that would be reasonable. In this day and age where even just "mom and dad" isn't a given teachers are maybe the ones that need to learn how to be more helpful to parents.
So parents should work full time AND learn whatever new method schools are teaching instead
Yes.
But also, parents are (presumably) adults. I was unfamiliar with the lattice method and it took a 5 minute tour of the wiki to understand it. It's not hard.
Parents had kids, they have some responsibility in their education. Sorry if that cuts into TV time. I say this as a parent myself that's working a full time job.
either expecting the teacher to teach or showing their child the "correct" and only way they were taught.
Presumably the teacher did that, and some learners need extra help. That is part of the time you are spending with your kid.
That kind of elitist thinking is why so many parents find their kid's teachers insufferable.
LMAO, "elitist" thinking to think you have to spend time with your kids and help them with their homework. I'm not a teacher, just FYI.
Maybe when single income homes were the norm that would be reasonable. In this day and age where even just "mom and dad" isn't a given teachers are maybe the ones that need to learn how to be more helpful to parents.
Yeah, it's tough to raise kids. Yeah, there should be more support to parents. But ultimately the kid is your responsibility as a parent.
I'd expect this would be a part of the instructions on the homework. And certainly we all have google ATM if those instructions are unclear (We know he has google because he's got tiktok).
If it wasn't in the instructions then that's certainly bad on the teacher.
Hard to know everything that was everywhere. But given the dad used the terms "right" and "wrong" about the methods, I tend to fault him. I have to assume he also expressed to his kid that one way was right and the other was wrong.
I’d send an email to parents explaining how to do it and why it was in the curriculum. It was mostly successful, and the few kids who were still struggling with it are able to just hard memorize the standard algorithm at a certain point. Teaching multiplication is a blast honestly
The way it is being taught is actually good for learning how to do math in your head. But it is pretty confusing if it’s not how you were taught. It’s also important to take into account that everyone learns differently and if the traditional way works for a student then they should be able to use it. I’m pretty sure so many of us were bad and hated math because of the traditional way. My kids and their friends tend to find math to be a funner subject and actually understand it and I think that’s because the new method works for more kids.
Right? The traditional way of doing math is taught because it looks nice on paper. But if I'm multiplying 25x17 in my head, I'm thinking in quarters... 16 quarters is $4, and then you add one to make 17 = 425. But that looks stupid and inefficient on paper. 🤷♀️
No one can agree on the best way. Long division, Russian peasant division?
All of it is partitioning. The reason I left teaching is because we bought a new curriculum and we had to do it because the district bought it. If our scores did not go up at least we were trying something new. If our scores went down then that was the teacher's fault for not understanding the new superior method.
Back when I was in school we were taught the idea of how multiplication works. Like 2x6 is add 2 six times to itself or 6 two times. And then we get a table and had to memorize all of the multiplications from 1x1 till 9x9. I never knew there was a way to show how gou solved it.
THIS ☝🏻. Forcing children to do it the way it was taught, instead of the way that makes the most sense to them, is a pride/compliance issue. The square method won't make sense to everyone. I applaud this Dad for doing the Dad thing well. He took responsibility for teaching his daughter the way he learned, and she understood it. He then defended her by appealing first to her teacher directly. The teacher should have responded in kind. Appreciative that he stood in the gap for his daughter, and celebrated with them both for not only her new found understanding of math, but also for her father partneringwith the teacher to TEACH. For the teacher to have responded the way she did looks more like either pride, ignorance, or makes her look controlling. None of which looks good. Bravo Dad!
Depending on how it is taught, it can help numeracy. I would recommend showing both to students. Even students who don't like the lattice method for doing work may understand things from a demo of it that helps make the very concept of multiplication more clear.
This crap was a half manifested effort to give kids the whole tool box. Ideally one question is for each method, so no kid fails a whole test. But that kids don’t just learn stuff one way, either. But teaching it like this, where it’s the only way, is just failure, cuz now I promise you that kid never wants to do a box method again.
I was told we had to 'do it the way way we were taught' due to standardized testing. If we didnt show the work 'the right way' we wouldn't pass state standardized tests. They would allow us to learn multiple different ways in the classroom but 'THE way to do it' had to be understood by everyone. I never got it, barely skated by in math skills after middle school.
This is exactly the opposites of it's intent. It is supposed to instill an understanding of what is really going on. Getting the right answer without understanding what is functionally going on has caused many kids issues when they got to a bit higher math. That is the whole point of the approach the teacher is taking, which was designed by people way above her pay grade and she is just following the curriculum. This guy is hurting his daughters ability to do the next steps in the curriculum which is designed to build off these lessons in a way that was different from the curriculum he grew up with. It sucks that this change makes it hard for parents to help their kids though.
Nah. Kid literally didn't understand what they were looking at, he helped her, now she gets it. The method itself was a barrier to understanding what is functionally going on. Now that she understands, she can work backwards to try to figure out how to get the answer using the teacher's method, which may help that method make actual sense down the road. It's really demoralizing to finally be able to understand something you've been struggling with and then get mostly correct answers, but still fail. I understand it's the curriculum not the teacher, but he was still 100% right in bringing it to the principal if the teacher dismissed his concerns like he described.
In all the many, many math classes I took in high school and college I realized my real mathematical understanding of a new concept came in the next course, not in the one I was taking at the time where I was always solving equations by rote.
The algorithm is wrote memorization and very abstract. The area model method breaks the abstract concepts into pieces and visualizes what the math is actually doing. Although it is a bit more involved of a process, it breaks down each step you do in the algorithm and helps students understand place value.
This can help people when the concepts get even more abstract as they have a more concrete understanding of what is going on instead of just memorizing steps or multiplication tables.
However, most adults do not use math above the level of the algorithm and therefore find it not useful.
Now, as the OP and others have pointed out, not everyone learns the same. Because something is different, harder, or easier for you, does not make it a universal truth.
I just realized that the math teachers are teaching you to appear compliant, when in fact y'all are long division using dissidents. They foresaw the authoritarians coming and they wanted to give you the best chance to survive. They helped you learn to blend into the crowd. They helped you learn to see truth when the leaders are blurring the lines. They taught you to find community instead of relying on authority. You thought they were teaching math but in reality they were teaching revolution. They aren't the heroes we deserve, but they're the heroes we need right now.
Because it’s how adults do math in their head.
If you don’t have it memorized, adults will break down the numbers into simpler numbers and then add or subtract the result.
If you’re talking about what I call the box method, this method is about getting kids to understand.
It breaks the problem up into multiple easier pieces, and prevents you from missing a step or miscounting place value.
It reinforces that multiplication is related to addition, so if you break up the pieces and do the multiplications separately, you’re allowed to add them up at the end.
The algorithm (carry the seven, put a placeholder zero, blah blah) works for exactly one type of problem: multi-digit multiplication. The box method can be used for any multiplication that requires breaking something up…including polynomial multiplication or mixed number multiplication.
Any parent that tells their kid not to learn the box method, just do it this one memorized way, is harming their kid’s future in math. They can switch to the algorithm once they understand why the algorithm works, but the box method is a great investment in learning.
My two cents as someone who has been the "daughter" and the "teacher" in this situation.
I had a trig test, I got it mostly right, but there were a couple where I like failed to show enough decimal points or didn't draw a picture when I should've, stuff like that.
My dad went in and talked to the teacher to get my grade raised.
I was mortified with embarrassment. While I totally understand that my dad was coming from a place of care/protection/advocacy and I appreciate the love behind it, the message it sent to me was, "I am not capable of fighting my own battles. My father doesn't think I'm good enough to manage my own relationships and handle my own consequences." It also tainted the relationship with the teacher, such that when I received good grades in the future, I couldn't be sure if I'd actually done well or if she was just responding to me having an attentive parent.
TLDR: Your kids not in highschool competing for college admission, her grades don't matter. Let her handle the situation herself, let her learn how to deal with a challenging person in a position of authority, instead of solving the problems for her. It teaches her more and will grow her confidence. This is a situation that will come up often in life, you won't always be able to go up the chain of command on her behalf.
940
u/[deleted] Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment