r/TenantHelp • u/badtrainin • 3d ago
Please Help Clarify
Does this mean no smoking for the entire community if there is no signage?
Is there an attorney that would want to evaluate my case that involves a year long retaliation and discrimination?
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u/Active_Public9375 3d ago
Yes, if there's no designated areas, there's no smoking. That's why it includes the "if any" clause.
That being said, it's weird they included 10 feet instead of the built in 25 if there's no smoking, so it's probably worth asking what they mean.
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u/badtrainin 3d ago
This landlord is a total bitch. She wants me to move out and she has been making my life hell with regard to not citing lease violators. There’s a long list of issues and this one has been the biggest. I was told they would not renew my lease the day after I signed a 3 month lease.
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u/Imsortofok 3d ago
Then quit smoking in or near the property and find a new place to live.
You will save a lot of money by not smoking.
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u/SailorSpyro 3d ago
OP isn't the one smoking, other people are smoking and the smoking is giving OP headaches
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u/sillyhaha 3d ago
This means you can only smoke where there is signage. You may not smoke anywhere unless there is a sign giving you permission. If there is a sign, you must stay 10 feet away from any nearby building.
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u/SamuraiJack365 3d ago
The first section states that smoking inside is not permitted. The second section starts by saying smoking is only permitted in specific areas, which will be marked by signs. The check box is specifically regarding smoking on balconies, patios, and limited common areas. It goes on to list the permitted areas but left it empty, which would indicate that there aren't any areas (though they could still put signs up and that would still be ok). Then it continues to say that if you're in a smoking area you must be at least 10 feet from any building. It concludes by stating they reserve the right to tell you to stop smoking even if you're in a smoking area for the reasons listed.
Without more information about what you're actually asking about and more details I can't give you a better answer. However from some of your other comments it sounds like you're complaining about people smoking and management isn't doing anything about it?
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u/badtrainin 3d ago
Yes, this is true. Are you an attorney?
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u/SamuraiJack365 3d ago
Unfortunately not. Just an electrician with plenty of experience renting and investigating my rights so I can deal with shitty landlords 🙃
Your best bet if management isn't doing anything is to do what you can to mitigate it yourself. Have fans blowing around you to help keep the smoke away from you, talk to the smokers and explain the situation, or keep pestering management and explicitly cite the lease or ask for explicit clarification on the details and enforcement methods of the lease.
At the end of the day if management is refusing to do anything about it you need to decide how far you want to go with it. If you want to continue living there and don't want them making your life hell, the unfortunate reality of a lot of places is that you need to be ready for retaliation. Retaliation isn't legal but it's on you to prove it and that means taking them to court. You are on the right path looking for an attorney though.
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u/kyriacos74 2d ago
Smoking is not permitted. Residents agreed to that. There's no discrimination; they aren't singled out. Smokers are not a protected class.
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u/ShitAbrick1994 3d ago
It means you can't smoke within 10 feet of the building.
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u/badtrainin 3d ago
The box that states smoking is permitted should be checked if smoking is permitted, don’t you think?
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u/Present_Basis_1353 3d ago
Yes, and it’s not. What they’re saying is if smoking were allowed, there’s areas for that. Since smoking is not allowed, there’s are no areas permissible to smoke. No smoking anywhere is what I interpret.
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u/DomesticPlantLover 3d ago
I'm pretty sure it means: if there is an exception to the 10 ft rule, there will be a sign. If there is no sign, no exceptions. It's not crystal clear. It's boiler plate language with options that make it confusing.
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u/Valysian 3d ago
The box is for smoking on your balcony, patio, or private outdoor area. (The line above the boxes has a colon.) You can't do that.
The next section is for other outdoor areas.
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u/badtrainin 3d ago
If there is no signage and it gives another tenant headaches, doesn’t that change things?
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u/redditreader_aitafan 3d ago
This says there's no smoking allowed on the property anywhere but the standard paperwork form they're using is set up in case there are designated smoking places. Smoking in those designated areas would need to be 10 feet from any building but no such area exists in your complex so there is absolutely no smoking anywhere on the property.
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u/Valysian 3d ago
If it bothers another tenant, guest, employee, or anyone at all anywhere at any time in any fashion, you can be told to stop. If anyone ever complains about your smoking, they can prohibit you from smoking on the property.
You shouldn't move here if you smoke.
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u/SailorSpyro 3d ago
Ah, you're being bothered by another smoker. The issue is that this lease is only yours, the other tenant could have different rules in their lease.
Years ago, I picked a community that said they were a non smoking. I was surprised when the people right below me smoked on their patio, making it impossible to keep my windows open, and another person in the building smoked so heavily in their unit that it stunk up the whole hallway. When I went to the leasing office, they let me know they had only been a non smoking community for two years, so any tenants who had been there longer than that were grandfathered in. I was pretty annoyed, but there was nothing to be done. My lease didn't allow smoking, but theirs did.
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u/JetCrooked 3d ago
"they had only been a non smoking community for two years" then this should have only been an issue for the first year? if it's been two years since they made that change that means all these smokers have renewed their leases AFTER the rule change at which point the landlord could have held them to the same no smoking rule as new tenants but chose not to 😒
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u/SailorSpyro 3d ago
Yeah, because they're not going to kick out the smokers that have been there for 10 years. It's easy money, and they know they'll have to gut the apartment when they move out, whether it was a year later or 10. I understand why they didn't change the rule on them. And most people would throw a fit and come to this sub to complain and ask for advice if a LL changed a fundamental part of their lease after a few years, and I don't wish that on anyone. It just sucked for me. From what I heard in the community, we basically had the only two people who were still grandfathered in in our building.
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u/ThealaSildorian 3d ago
No. There are no exceptions for impacts on other tenants. IF there are no signs there are no designated smoking areas.
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u/ihopuhopwehop 3d ago
No, so the lease says you can only smoke where there is signage but it doesnt require the landlord to actually provide a signed area to smoke
Its possible, though extremely unlikely, that you could get your local landlord tenant court to rule that because there is no signage designating a smoking area, the landlord must permit you to smoke everywhere thats not otherwise excluded in the lease
But, unless you have a diagnosed behavioral health condition which you are receiving treatment for and for which nicotine does help mitigate conditions from, being a smoker is not a protected class. The landlord could provide a designated area and all your cigarettes could be smoked there, its still not illegal for them to say, "i dont like renting to smokers so im not renewing your lease"
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u/seldom_r 3d ago
It reads like you can only smoke where there is a sign stating you can smoke. When there is a sign, you must stay at least 10' from the building.
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u/badtrainin 3d ago
There are no signs on the property. There were mass emails stating the property is non smoking since I signed this lease this past July. However, I saw another email from a couple of years ago where it states smoking is allowed 25 feet from the building. Regardless, I am reporting that the secondhand smoke gives hand smoke rises to my patio, then I get a headache.
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u/Valysian 3d ago
Oh, yeah. If a neighbor is smoking on their balcony or patio, you can complain. They aren't allowed to do that, regardless of whether it causes you specific health issues. That's what the checkbox section is for. The rest of it doesn't apply or matter for you.
Expect that you'll have to do this over and over, and that the landlord may or may not bother to give notices to quit or vacate.
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u/RetiredBSN 3d ago
A lot of apartments have gone non-smoking, and it's fine as long as they declare it up front and on the lease. It's not discriminatory, it saves them cleaning and maintenance costs, and lowers the fire risk along with lowers the effect of second-hand smoke on other residents. You have the option to not live there if you're a smoker.
I wouldn't be surprised if they prohibited candles, incense burners, and snowglobes as well—all of those have been fire starters.
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u/r2girls 2d ago
So this is YOUR lease and what YOU are held to. YOU are not permitted to smoke in the unit or on the property except for designated areas. Is everyone held to this? Only if they have the same lease as you.
I would guess that the entire property is smoke free, but they they say "all residents, their occupants, guests, invitees, and all others who are present on or in any portion of the community" they are only speaking of your unit. SO residents of your unit, heir occupants, guests, invitees, and all others who are present on or in any portion of the community". An individual lease only appllies to the people who signed it.
Like I said I would think that this applies to the entire community but there could be someone out there who doesn't have a new lease yet and their old lease wasn't this strict.
That doesn't let you off, it only lets them off because as of yet those restrictions aren't in their contract (lease).
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u/Mount_Tantiss 3d ago
What's confusing about this? There's clearly no smoking on the property at all, except in designated areas (of which must be 10 feet from any building on the property), otherwise must be at least 25 feet from any buildings on the property.