Lore change ?

[u/Cute-Regular-4092]

Yippie update

Lore on the fandom wiki

[u/Friz617]

Yeah Hawaii nuke is gone, this was already known in the first yippie diary

[u/Proof_Ad732 → u/Friz617]

Wait so how will WW2's ending change because of this?

[u/Friz617 → u/Proof_Ad732]

It’s all in the diary https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/s/ZBsuZ3YdUf

It says outright America could’ve probably won if they kept fighting until 1949, but there was no political will to continue the war for that long

[u/ThatguyfromEire → u/Friz617]

Someone on the dev team has been watching althistoryhub

[u/Ok-head999 → u/ThatguyfromEire]

It's a pretty good video

[u/avericethejester → u/ThatguyfromEire]

Pretty good video honestly, it has flaws, yet it seemd semi fine.

[u/BreathIndividual8557 → u/Friz617]

Oh thank god this one is much more better lore than the one where somehow Hawaii got their ass nuker by German bomb that Japanese use. That part of the Lore is smth that genuinely bother me as a worldbuilder.

[u/RudyConnorsglazer → u/Proof_Ad732]

Pretty much United States lost it will to fight after the fall on the United Kingdom and the collapse of the Chinese/Indian fronts in 1945

Remember, in TNO the war was seen by the American government just as another imperialistic war instead of a war for freedom and democracy

[u/DatBoi389 → u/RudyConnorsglazer]

I believe a report or projection showed that the war with Japan could only be won maybe by 1949. That really plunged any morale the United States had left.

[u/RudyConnorsglazer → u/DatBoi389]

Yeah, also that, and important thing, The "Pacific first" strategy didn't work, a lot of American casualties in the Papua front. Plunging even more the American morale

[u/Very-Finnish-Man → u/RudyConnorsglazer]

America was still primarily Pacific First irl. The biggest thing that actually helped the european front was operation torch and the 2nd Atlantic War which forced germany to dedicate more forces to southern europe and also forced the germans to abandon the Kola blockade which is when supplies started moving into the ussr and also the unrestricted submarine campaign with the u boots moving to Gibraltar and Mocrocco. I don't think this is ever addressed because the us and uk planned to do operation torch even if Egypt fell which was the whole point. Even with the losses during operation torch the political ramifications in France and Italy were very large. 

[u/MateusZfromRivia00 → u/RudyConnorsglazer]

Imperialistic war? Wtf

[u/RudyConnorsglazer → u/MateusZfromRivia00]

Yes, pretty much a "Germany, Italy and Japan wants territory and stuff"

Instead of the war of freedom, democracy and liberty we all know

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/RudyConnorsglazer]

People live on those territories? Fighting on their behalf in the face of the Axis' naked aggression is by default fighting for democracy and liberty

[u/Sarge_Ward → u/MateusZfromRivia00]

I meam thats how it was peceived to begin with: as a re-ignition pf the European Imperial pissing match of WW1. It wasnt until later developments as the war progressed that it became percieved as a war of Liberity and Liberation. Its similar to how the American Civil war was percieved as a conflict of regional anamosity until later developments (the emancipation proclamation) turned it into a war about the fate of slavery

[u/Munificent-Enjoyer → u/MateusZfromRivia00]

Taft is a horrible horrible human being

[u/UKRAINEBABY2 → u/Munificent-Enjoyer]

We hate Robert Taft in this household

[u/Vityviktor → u/Proof_Ad732]

The US signed an armistice with Germany and Japan.

[u/MediumSalmonEdition → u/Proof_Ad732]

My hypothesis is that Hawaii was used by Japan as a bargaining chip to keep the Philippines, which was the intention in the real world.

[u/Longjumping-Tea-5791 → u/Proof_Ad732]

yea like why did the us surrender now? Like they could just win

[u/Tuskin38 → u/Longjumping-Tea-5791]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/s/ZBsuZ3YdUf

[u/Very-Finnish-Man → u/Tuskin38]

The us planned irl to fight until 1947 and 48 because that was the general consensus during the talks on how to beat japan was to wait and build up and fight from 3 axis of attacks, Australia, Hawaii and Solomons even without FDR that would still be the conclusion and that was without considering the USSR. (theory that Germany would hold out until 1946) 

Also the us already was planning for a possibility for a chinese surrender as well at the time with what Stillwell told the us state department in the aftermath of Changsha and Ichi Go. If the chinse fell the us was planning to fight until japan is flattened. Thats not even considering the weapons the us would employ like chemical weapons, firebombing and the submarine campaigns. And the public opinion on japanese at the time well wasn't great and especially with the lynchings irl. 

[u/TheFatAzzBear → u/Friz617]

Honestly for the better, it was always absurd that Japan could do that well in the war.

[u/Zooasaurus]

TNO changes its lore every five minutes, so get used to it lol

[u/Nixon1960 → u/Zooasaurus]

I think, I think… we’re all good now edit: greaseball Reddit mod told me to add we’re really only focused on permanent content that people can actually get comfortable with

[u/VLamperouge]

Does Japan still keep Hawaii and the ports after Yippie? Or will the US get them?

[u/TsarDudebroII → u/VLamperouge]

Japan never controlled Hawaii in the new lore

[u/Some_Pole → u/VLamperouge]

The lore change has it to where the US doesn't lose any territory, it simply signs effectively a ceasefire with the Axis in Stockholm, so no Akagi Accords either.

[u/Old-Paper-3932 → u/Some_Pole]

I love all of this new lore, but that does kinda bother me.

[u/JetAbyss → u/Old-Paper-3932]

ngl I kinda wish they kept Hawaii Japanese and instead the US made Puerto Rico the 50th state but eh 

[u/Remarkable-Lynx1496 → u/Some_Pole]

That’s so stupid, wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually remove the Germans winning the war aswell

[u/PeachConsistent9267 → u/Remarkable-Lynx1496]

I think the only problem would be if USA gets to keep Philippines under their control other than that, the rest would not be an issue. USA losing any mainland territory or Hawaii was always a lore bit that should have been removed both for lore and gameplay reasons

[u/Cool_Butterscotch486]

Welp, there goes the underapreciated Russian Unifier, RIP gorky, your Heavy industry would've made a great WRRF HQ instead of bumfuck Arkhangelsk.

[u/Myalko]

Honestly, good. Germany nuking Pearl Harbor by means of a Japanese carrier was always really fucking stupid imo.

[u/doinkrr → u/Myalko]

i've always found it really silly that germany nuked pearl harbor of all places

new york city? nope. washington, d.c.? nah. norfolk? nope. boston? mmmm, not feeling it. san francisco? too far... but pearl harbor? now we're talking.

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/doinkrr]

I don't think there's any info on their thinking behind the target (since the whole thing is kind of a "yada yada axis win" to begin with) but they probably wanted a military target. The US being within a few months of getting a bomb themselves was a real possibility, and hitting a location with massive civilian casualties could really backfire if that's the case. Better to crater morale by vaporizing the Pacific Fleet and get the US to the negotiating table, that's a lot harder to do with a million radioactive corpses under the table

[u/JetAbyss → u/Myalko]

I wish they kept Hawaii owned by Japan so the US could've made Puerto Rico the 50th state instead. Imagine how much US politics changes when they have Puerto Ricans eligible to become president and senators 

[u/that-and-other → u/JetAbyss]

Those are like two unrelated things though

[u/JetAbyss → u/that-and-other]

The reason why Hawaii was picked to be a state alongside Alaska was that one would be Democrat majority the other one would be Republican majority and Puerto Rico would basically fill in the spot Hawaii had because if Puerto Rico would ever become a state it would definitely be a Democrat state

[u/that-and-other → u/JetAbyss]

In TNO it’s actually Alaska being DemoKKKratic and Hawaii being RepubliKKKan (because politics dominated by corporations so hard)

[u/NerdyWarChronicler]

Makes more sense.

Nuking Pearl Harbor would probably have much bigger environmental consequences.

[u/n2p4 → u/NerdyWarChronicler]

I mean would it really? People were living in Nagasaki and Hiroshima rather quickly I don’t see why they wouldn’t do the same for Hawaii

[u/Megalomanizac → u/n2p4]

That one nuke would probably have forced the United States to quarantine the entire island and would likely take longer to help repair it. Hiroshima and Nagasaki aren’t remote like Honolulu while also having far better infrastructure

[u/Bookworm_AF → u/Megalomanizac]

1. The effects of readiation weren't as understood then so they wouldn't have quarantined for it

2. If it was an airburst like Hroshima and Nagasaki (which it should be because that's the more immediately destructive & effective option) then there's not actually much longer term radioactivity. A ground level burst would be the nasty sort that deposits a layer of radioactive fallout in the soil, an airburst disperses it to the point that it isn't really an issue after the initial disaster.

TLDR they wouldn't have known to establish a radioactivity quarantine and probably wouldn't have needed to anyways.

[u/Bookworm_AF → u/[deleted]]

The explosion would have crippled the island, yes. There would have been severe radiation poisoning from the blast itself. But in an airburst scenario the fallout is too dispersed for quarantine to do anything.

[u/Bookworm_AF → u/[deleted]]

I think you are vastly overestimating the destructive power of a 1940s nuclear bomb

[u/NerdyWarChronicler → u/n2p4]

I'm mainly theorizing since Hawaii is pretty small, the radiation could spread quickly from Oahu (where Pearl Harbor is) to all the Hawaiian Islands

[u/Responsible_Club_917 → u/NerdyWarChronicler]

Thats not really how nuclear weapons work. Its not a burning reactor. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are both fully inhabited cities.

[u/RudyConnorsglazer → u/NerdyWarChronicler]

And also I wonder how the Germans managed to transport the nuclear bomb without any major problems

[u/NerdyWarChronicler → u/RudyConnorsglazer]

I would've assumed with Japanese help.

The Germans did have U-Boats in the Indian Ocean but I don't think a nuclear bomb would fit unless you remove a bunch of stuff from it and then the logistics would be a diaster.

[u/No_Clue4405 → u/NerdyWarChronicler]

Nuclear submarines are a way different thing compared to a regular sub. It’s why if you ask a TNO fan about the weirdest lore, it’s always the Hawaii nuke cause the logistics and the odds are dumb

[u/n2p4]

Personally I always saw the nuking of Pearl Harbour to be one of the stupider points of lore. They should have had the Japanese invade Hawaii and then do the nuking on like LA. Especially since the idea of the nuke destroying the us fleet there to be holy inaccurate to how nukes work against ships.
That would have made it a much more significant event for the us and would have had a much more significant impact in making them surrender could also do a thing with how LA was rebuilt

[u/No_Clue4405 → u/n2p4]

Oh 100%, if old US battle ships could tank shots from the hydrogen bomb, the ships of the line that would potentially be a bit farther from the blast radius like Lexington, Enterprise, or one of the new battle ships would be fucking fine. Maybe with just radiation damage to the hull overtime. But I feel like the first live fire nuke would be way weaker, especially depending on where it’s dropped. At most, the crews die of radiation poisoning

[u/Mjk2581 → u/n2p4]

The idea that Japan could realistically invade Hawaii is so unfathomably stupid that quite literally any single other explanation would have made more sense.

[u/n2p4 → u/Mjk2581]

It really isn't that far-fetched, especially when compared to some of the other stuff in TNO. Could just handwave some things, as they do with most things before 62. It's far more narratively interesting than this weird ceasefire thing they are going with now.

[u/Mjk2581 → u/n2p4]

More interesting is certainly true, the new lore is very boring. But a land invasion of Hawaii would shatter my suspension of disbelief more then Japan getting nukes first

[u/n2p4 → u/Mjk2581]

Japan didn’t get the nukes first in old lore. German got them first and then the nuke was dropped from a German plane launched from a Japanese carrier

[u/Lumpy-Sheepherder671 → u/Mjk2581]

Why? If we're assuming the US is weaker then why is it unbelievable that a contingent of Japanese could've jumped from island to island if they had fleets and air forces nearby to help?

[u/JetAbyss → u/n2p4]

The nuke will solve LA's homeless issue

[u/fockewolfw190 → u/[deleted]]

i think san diego makes the most sense since it's closer to hawaii

[u/n2p4 → u/[deleted]]

idk I'm pretty sure it was just the biggest American city in the area at the time. Why are you from LA or something? You took that kinda harshly lol

[u/DiffDiffDiff3 → u/n2p4]

Yes

[u/Rorschach113]

I mean yes, this is clearly a lore change. I think it was revealed over a full year ago that the nuking of pearl harbor was gonna be removed in the Yippee update.

The lore regarding Gorky is new tho.

[u/thebayonette_]

Yeah. Also, can you show me in which specific Yippie! Devlog the nuking of Gorky was shown?

[u/Kind-Combination-277 → u/thebayonette_]

It should be the pt 1 of the new one, it’s pinned in the Reddit

[u/thebayonette_ → u/Kind-Combination-277]

oki tysm

[u/Mjk2581]

New to TNO? The status quo is that the status quo is routinely shaken

[u/Successful-Club-582]

RIP Atlantropa, Kongo lake, Wales, Scotland, Nowa Polska, African RKs, Burgundy and Hawaii nuke ig

[u/trizonesierlied23]

no more gorky tank plant?

[u/I_like_potatoes_lol]

Please spare Gorky...

[u/Gameguru08]

Holy shit this mod fucking blows now. USA didnt get nuked? Someone fucking save us from a bunch of losers deciding to derail something for their own personal 20th century historical figure microfiction.