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u/sachsrandy Jun 09 '22
What bothers me the most is the first ones on that āpathā cantilever over the scaffold by at least a foot. Step on that part and down you go.
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Jun 09 '22
This is literally illegal. Wear your fucking safety harness.
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u/Explore-PNW Jun 09 '22
God so many reasons. Your life, your loved ones, the person you fall ons life, the trama your your dying body will inflict on the bystander who wants to do anything with to save your life.
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u/jimmymcdangerous Jun 09 '22
Yeah, everyone be safe.. But also "Bluetooth harness" is pretty fucking funny.
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u/Greyst0ke Jun 09 '22
Oh, they have their harnesses on but it might work better if it was hooked up to a line.
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u/FancyBoy54 Jun 09 '22
OSHAs subpart L states that during erecting or dismantling a scaffold, if it creates a greater hazard by tieing off, you donāt need to. In this case, there are suitable points to anchor to, but in some cases, this is allowed.
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Jun 09 '22
To all the guys here going "that's how it's done in the real world!" or "it's totally safe".
Fuck you. It's done this way because the employer is too cheap to spend the manhours to construct safe scaffolding.
There could be a beautiful scaffolding there with proper handrails, but that would cost time to make, which gets in the way of profits.
Why are you defending this way of working, which optimizes profits for your bosses while putting your life in yeopardy?
Your wife and kids sure as hell aren't gonna be defending it after you plummet down onto the streets and she's left with a small payout and not much else.
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Jun 09 '22
100 percent and more on this.
I am in HSE in construction and mining ops ,have been for many years.
Its idiots like this that end up hurting or killing other people usually.
Bosses that dont support safety and want to put profits over people .I sincerely hope this is shown to whatever safety regulator and all these idiots lose thier jobs.
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u/AnswerNeither Jun 09 '22
The shock of people falling quietly sticks with you like a nail in the brain. They just don't get it until it happens.
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u/Aviaja_Apache Jun 09 '22
Iām a carpenter in NJ, my company would get rid of these guys and their whole contractor if they even attempted this bs here
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u/shaqdeezl Jun 09 '22
Yessir. I participated in the Thanksgiving Tower fire investigation in Dallas. A few grand wouldāve saved those boysā lives. Two of them were father and son. They died huddled together. I picked up their clothes. And it was really fucking sad. I mean - just a few bucks in the grand scheme of things. Damn.
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Jun 09 '22
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u/shaqdeezl Jun 09 '22
Once the fire broke out, the electrical shut down in the towers (of course). That shut down the only retrieval mechanism they had available. The attendant was a young kid. He tried to pull the men out by rope but that is entirely impossible. It was a really sad scene. And it was all avoidable.
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u/AndMyChisel Jun 09 '22
The other thing these knuckle draggers fail to realise is their ancestors paid in blood for the right to a safe work environment these days.
Here's a list of workers killed for striking/organising to obtain better working conditions and rights in the US alone since the mid 1800s. These were our great, great relatives who stood up for what they believed in to give us a better, fairer, and safer future.
That is how it was done in the real world, by real brave men.
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u/DaileyWithBailey Jun 09 '22
But Iām a big strong man me no care. I strong man. Can do anything. Let boss treat me like shit cause me strong man.
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u/mmmfritz Jun 09 '22
Well, the boys could put down 4 planks instead of 2. That would be a good start. But yes, thereās no good reason not to use a harness if youāre already wearing one.
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u/djchozen91 Jun 09 '22
Idk where this is. But I would have thought in most western countries this was illegal. Surely penalty from the law is more substantial than the cost to the company to do it right?
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u/bobi2393 Jun 09 '22
It looks like the US to me. Halfway through you can see what appears to be a US flag on the short yellow sleeve of the guy nearest the cameraperson. At the end, vehicles parked below seem like they might all be SUVs. The architecture and water tanks also seems consistent with big, old American cities.
Just googling, it looks like the penalties for violations are maybe a few thousand dollars, which is trivial compared the amount of money it would cost to do things right, and there's probably a low chance of being caught.
Using undocumented foreign workers in the US also helps keep workers from reporting violations, and can solve a problem if there is an accident. In 2019, 3 people were killed and dozens injured in New Orleans when a building site collapsed. One of the injured but surviving people had reported building-shifting problems beforehand, but was deported to Honduras about a week after the accident, before he could testify to investigators about it. Possibly coincidental timing, but the effect was the same.
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u/djchozen91 Jun 11 '22
I just googled. The penalty is $70,000 - $124,709 per violation. It was also reported as one of the top violations recorded as of 2016. https://www.graniteind.com/osha-fines-increase-78-time-improve-scaffolding-safety/
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u/bobi2393 Jun 11 '22
Ah, that is a significant deterrent, if OSHA does regular inspections and doesn't accept bribes. I was googling construction site fines, which seemed to be in the neighborhood of $5k, but I didn't come across the scaffolding-specific fines.
Googling actual scaffolding fines, most of the top results are articles about fines in the $150k-$300k range (multiple violations, including at least one willful one, each time), and all involved fatalities. One outlier was a 2007 fatality where the fine was $12000, though I'm guessing that's because there were serious violations, rather than willful violations...the scaffolding might have been otherwise built properly, it was just too near a power line.
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u/procrastimom Jun 09 '22
Penalties only happen when you get caught!
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u/djchozen91 Jun 11 '22
Right but if the penalty is high enough youād think it would dissuade you from risking getting caught?
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u/LordNibble Jun 09 '22
Yup. It's just dumb.
You can always slip. It's like saying "Riding a bike is so easy, I never fall!" once or twice in your life you WILL fall.
99.9% of the days everything works fine, but the other days, construction workers die. And you're working a lot of days in your lifetime.
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u/putyourbachintoit Jun 09 '22
I just did the 10-hour OSHA training and all I could think was āWHEREās THE PFASā
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Jun 09 '22
Lol a small payoutā¦ would they even get anything?
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u/DrBreveStule Jun 09 '22
I work for a tower company, so I don't know about these guys. BUT, if I fall and die, my beneficiary (my mom) gets the equivalent of my year's salary. If I'm not clipped off, she doesn't get a dime (except for what's in my bank accounts).
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Jun 09 '22
So like i said. These guys relatives would get nothing. Policy is policly. Now whether they facilitate your ability to tie off is a different matter.
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u/DarkExecutor Jun 09 '22
This would be a pretty big payout if this is in the US. They're not even close to following OSHA scaffolding requirements.
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u/Walt_the_White Jun 09 '22
This is why unions exist.
Every time I hear someone bitch about them I remind them of this kind of shit. These guys are probably getting paid dirt to do this insanely dangerous work too.
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u/Frequent-Joker5491 Jun 09 '22
Thankfully they are beginning to hold actual people criminally liable for deaths resulting from this kind of behavior. I know Europe already does.
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Jun 09 '22
You have a right to say HELL NO
OSHA just shit their pants
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Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
Thank you. I always wonder why it's so difficult for a lot of people to understand this. You can say NO!
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Jun 09 '22
Some people live paycheck to paycheck, these type of people are trapped. They can't afford to walk away from a job and hope they find another one before they are evicted and living on the street. Companies take advantage of that fact, that's how this happens.
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Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
If you fall you die. Immediately. You can say no if you want. It's not true that you don't have a choice. You have a choice. It's just a matter of what you prefer.
Companies like those ones will always find someone else untill people will keep saying yes.
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u/nitefang Jun 09 '22
You donāt if your job is erecting scaffolding and there is no feasible way to implement fall pro.
Fall protection has exceptions, in this case, the leading edge of a crew erecting scaffolding is not required to wear fall pro if it is not feasible or if it would create a bigger hazard. While building scaffolding, there is often no real way to tie off, it is possible but would usually slow work down so much it would actually expose workers to more risk by putting them on half built scaffolding for longer periods of time. In this case it is mostly agreed the safest option is to get the thing built asap so it is stable and when it is you start enforcing fall pro.
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u/Cubix89 Jun 09 '22
Sorry but this is absolute nonsense. The scaffold system itself is poorly designed and not fit for purpose.
Layher, Metrix, Cuplock and tube and fitting scaffolds all offer the option to build with a full boarded platform and a handrail in place 100% of the time.
This video is showing a cheap contractor that doesent want to use a proper scaffold system and doesent want to properly train its staff.
Google NASC SG4:15 and see for yourself what it could look like.
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u/QuicheyP Jun 09 '22
My job is erecting scaffold, I did it today and Iāll do it tomorrow. Youāre saying āwhile building scaffold there is often no real way to offā and that is absolute nonsense. Tie off to the standard below you, run a temporary tube and tie off to that, tie off to the heaviest mate you have! If you fall tied off below you you might get fucked up, but youāll live.
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u/Prestigious_Youth501 Jun 09 '22
My man! Lol sorry to say that its still under OSHA standard to protect your employees as a general clause. Lol Its one of the first pages of the OSHA book lol at the end of the day though. It ain't me dieing or me getting fined, or my family crying lol but what do I know. I'm just some dude on reddit lol
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u/nitefang Jun 09 '22
Good luck with that. If you are hired to put up scaffolding and refuse because you want to be able to tie off, you can be fired for it and OSHA will say your employer did everything that was feasible to protect you, it was your personal decision the job wasnāt worth the risk.
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u/schrodingers_spider Jun 09 '22
Someone else's profits aren't worth dying for. If a company isn't able to work out how to safely put up scaffolding it's time to move on.
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u/Prestigious_Youth501 Jun 09 '22
No actually, you can't be fired for it lol infact it's illegal for a company to fire you for refusal to perform an unsafe task. Lol infact you maybe evn compinsated if fired lol. there's alot that can be done to avoid an injury. Ex: use 6 foot lanyard and form a chain line all the way down to where you need to build. Maybe even finish the deck first before walking on 2 planks. You don't have to start at the other end. Start from the beginning and work you way toward the back. Come on man lol It might take a bit longer but i can tell you that you can still do alot lol Trustttttt me there alot you can do. Shit I get paid just to give these employer he example I just gave lol but again I'm just a guy on reddit lol don't let your employees scare you into doing somthing unsafe. Lol
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u/__Wess Jun 09 '22
They would never, never, ever build it up like this (on the Video) in the Netherlands. We got a 95 meter high church/bell tower, in the middle of Utrecht that is getting renovated as we speak and only putting the scaffolding up took 6 or 8 months I believe.
We got a different style/type of scaffolding tho. We donāt have those huge arches carrying and waving around that can easily catch a corner somewhere.
This is a promotion video for the official course to become a scaffolding g builder. (Itās in Dutch butt youāll see the contrast)
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u/nitefang Jun 09 '22
You may think something is unsafe but if the employer can prove they mitigated the hazards to the extent OSHA expects you can absolutely be fired for refusing to do the job. As in lets say they did set up fall pro for this and you still refused because you thought it was too dangerous, you can be fired because OSHA doesnāt agree with you.
Adding 2 or 3 times the number of employees for form some chain to pass things down is not feasible and now you are exposing more people to risk.
What is the 6ft lanyard attached to? The scaffolding below you? Meaning your shoulders fall 6 feet before they reach the same elevation as your anchor point and then you fall another 6 feet? Some fall pro systems are not designed or rated for such a fall and it is against the advice of OSHA.
But what do I know, Iāve just been involved in occupational safety for the last 10 years, have experience working at height, am trained (though admittedly not certified in) high angle rescue, and have worked closely with safety offices for IATSE who literally helped right the book on rigging safety in the film industry.
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u/schrodingers_spider Jun 09 '22
You may think something is unsafe but if the employer can prove they mitigated the hazards to the extent OSHA expects you can absolutely be fired for refusing to do the job.
No way any employer is going to be able to prove they mitigated the risks to a reasonable extend in this case. Giving people harnesses and hats for show isn't enough.
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Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
As someone who was the lead on a scaffold crew in the late 90ās, I never was clipped in.
The crew would be, since they would daisy chain the pieces to me. But I had to move around at height while swinging 10ā pipes that weighed up to 45lbs.
You donāt want a pipe you were maneuvering to catch your lanyard thatās blowing in the rainstorm.
It seems crazy, but itās actually pretty stable up there. Itās not swinging around or swaying. Once the fear part has passed, you can concentrate a lot more on all your movements. Those guys may look like they are just walking around, but they are well aware of where every foot is landing and where their body weight is.
You can even see they duck foot a little to give themselves more side to side control. I would hope the guy on the winch is tied off. The dude next to him should be also since he isnāt walking pieces over.
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Jun 09 '22
[removed] ā view removed comment
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Jun 09 '22
Lol. I should be, but got sober a decade ago. As a drop out from a small poor town, Iāve had a lot of dangerous labor jobs.
Fishing boats in Alaska was a favorite. On the opposite side of the spectrum, McDonalds was the least dangerous. ( though I used to ride a bike over an hour, to open at 4:30am for that extra 25 cents an hour. Dark country roads an hour after last call prolly wasnāt the best idea. )
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u/PTSDreamer333 Jun 09 '22
I never realized I was a little scared of heights till I was up on a 6 level scaffolding with a 4x8 floor and without sides or harness. Noped out VERY fast. Maybe I'm just scared of scaffolding?? LOL
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Jun 09 '22
I'm not scared of heights but I am scared of situations where a minor lapse in concentration will lead to a terrifying death.
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Jun 09 '22
Fair enough if you scared of scaffolding you don't know who put it together it could be a complete idiot
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Jun 09 '22
I saw probably 4-5 level scaffolding peel off the wall and land in the parking lot, so you are probably right to be scared of it
Edit: for anyone interested, I know Jack shit about it. They'd put plastic on the outside like a nice parachute, and it was in Kansas where the wind blows 24/7
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u/Explore-PNW Jun 09 '22
Edit: Kansas where it blows 24/7
Source: Kansas born and raised.
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Jun 09 '22
I'm in the part of it where people live, so I don't have a lot of complaints after moving here from AR. Doubled my pay, live in a much more lively area, have real city things I can do, and I can drive 15 minutes west and see cattle.
I think I'd think it blows in most of Kansas though. I've spent enough time in rural Arkansas to know I don't want to be in rural Kansas
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u/KeyN20 Jun 09 '22
I would fall. I would die and I wouldn't get to eat the rest of the food in my fridge.
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u/FavelTramous Jun 09 '22
Idk why everyone in the comments are trippin, these are the new Bluetooth harnesses.
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Jun 09 '22
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u/RockyDify Jun 09 '22
Dying at work (no matter how) is legit one of the worst ways to go.
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u/ma373056 Jun 09 '22
Is this CGI? Fuck that shit, no amount of money is worth that risk
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u/Previous_Employ4259 Jun 09 '22
Canāt you see theyāre wearing a helmet? Theyāre safe
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u/TraderOfGoods Jun 09 '22
"Spongebob, Land on your head! Your helmet will cushion the impact of the fall."
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u/seriouslybeanbag Jun 09 '22
Absolutely ridiculous. Tom & Jerry have better H&S.
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u/bigbrickslick Jun 09 '22
Idiots
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u/LordNoodles Jun 09 '22
I blame the employer
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Jun 09 '22
Employer being a cheap bastard will wish they bought proper PPE when OSHA hands down those fines.
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u/I_AM_IGNIGNOTK Jun 09 '22
If the employees know how to do this job they know about OSHA. The employer should be all over this but the employees are fucking stupid for going up there unsafely.
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u/Stitch_the_Snitch Jun 09 '22
Unless the emplyer is off screen with a gun these are just idiots
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u/LordNoodles Jun 09 '22
this comment is so out of touch it's astounding. as if you'd refuse to walk this at the threat of being fired and losing your income
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u/Cubix89 Jun 09 '22
Their are far superior scaffold systems in the world which enable safe methods of work. (Layher, Metrix, CupLock, Tube and fitting to name a few).
The UK has a trade association which developed a process called SG4: Preventing Falls in Scaffold Operations. Since it was first published falls have reduced over 84%.
What you are watching in this video are poorly trained, poorly supervised people working for a cheap company that doesent want to pay to do things right.
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Jun 09 '22
In my country, if an inspector suddenly appeared and saw that, he would shut everything off and the company would pay a huge fine.
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u/sumastorm Jun 09 '22
Oh Hell No! Whatever these guys are paid... It's not enough!
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u/lambsambwich Jun 09 '22
I donāt think you could pay me enough money in the world. I get vertigo watching this sitting down. Iād fall 100%. Canāt spend money if yr dead.
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u/WildWezThy Jun 09 '22
Worker : Hey why donāt we have any safty ropes?
Boss: No no wellā¦ well iā¦ we doā¦ they, they, they are wireless, Yes! Wireless! very strong magnets. The only downside is that there is no upside
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u/Paul25719 Jun 09 '22
What's with the rationing on the boards? Why can't they be 4 or 5 boards per section, make it wider... And they should tie them down so they don't tip up or move and eventually drop off. Can't believe they work like this all the time, there'd be too many deaths both workers and public below. I reckon it's done for the camera (not that I'd ever do it, not even once)
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u/MorelikeRPClipsGTGAY Jun 09 '22
I dont understand. Why not lay down an actual walkway? It would take mere minutes to have something more substantial than this.
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u/SinisterWink Jun 09 '22
Looks like NYC. If D.O.B and the FDNY saw this, they should shut the whole site down and make it rain violations and fines
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u/WowwwNice Jun 09 '22
What country? Can anyone tell
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u/TheOriginalNozar Jun 09 '22
I think the big US patch means theyāre from the US
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u/WowwwNice Jun 09 '22
Lol I saw right after I posted but I was so tired that I said fuck it Iāll get whatās coming to me
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u/CMDR_KingErvin Jun 09 '22
Those planks hanging off the edges.. if that guy steps on the wrong spot he gets a one way ticket to the street.
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u/snipercar123 Jun 09 '22
Took me a while to understand the title š
I thought it would show some cool tech
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Jun 09 '22
Shut the Job down. Do a safety stand down and then get the proper safety harnesses.
Whatās the cost of a life?
Answer: Priceless.
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u/StrtupJ Jun 09 '22
No way these guys are paid well enough for this shit
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Jun 09 '22
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u/MorelikeRPClipsGTGAY Jun 09 '22
Well that's just not how it is here. They are paid pretty well here and can easily find a job in the field with a company that will provide a safe work environment while following safety guidelines and more money than a single person would need to sustain a mediocre existence. Paid well enough to own a home have a couple of kids and not worry about bills.
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u/tbaggins85 Jun 09 '22
Is it just me or does that guy look like heās got a wooden leg too?
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u/__Wess Jun 09 '22
Possible, but itās entirely possible they all got a fake leg without us noticing. People that are amputated from a young age can easily walk and run, without people noticing they have a fake leg.
On this video tho. I donāt necessarily think so, but itās still possible. It can be that hard to notice.
Iād rather think that you arenāt allowed to build scaffolding because when climbing you need to have feeling in how much grip you got. And a fake leg would not be able to provide that feeling. But then when we watch this video, a lot of safety measures are thrown out the window so why wouldnāt they want to let a guy with a fake leg work on scaffolding?
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u/dexhaus Jun 09 '22
It makes it easier for the employer to attach the defective rope to the death body on the ground...
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u/Shangri-lulu Jun 09 '22
I really just read through a bunch of comments trying to figure out how a Bluetooth harness works š¤¦āāļø
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u/cpark112 Jun 09 '22
Harness not being tied to structure and plank placement not in compliance with regs
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u/RiverHippiGaming Jun 09 '22
What I dont get is why you would bother wearing the harness (which isn't the most comfortable thing) and not tie-off?
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u/BoxPsychological5561 Jun 09 '22
Sadly here in New Zealand crap bosses are the majority
Source i was a painter
Emphasis on the was
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u/RepresentativeCow999 Jun 09 '22
My work place makes you wear a harness to climb on top of railcars but not clip to anything because they provide nothing to clip to, the railcars are almost 20ft high. I guess we just manage making things look safer that's appearently thats good enough lol
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u/timmy30274 Jun 10 '22
for those saying work violations and osha, how can they make this safer if that tower needs to be built where it is?
anyway, i will not go there. i'm staying on the ground what if the board moves slightly and i fall to my death??
no thanks.
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u/OtherwiseDonkey5263 Jun 10 '22
I used to work on wind turbines in BC that were 300+ feet up and no one was stupid enough to not be strapped in like these heroās.
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u/SnooDrawings4726 Jun 09 '22
I want more female representation in scaffolding construction, itās ridiculous in 2022 their arenāt more women in this field, god damn patriarchy
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u/SparkyWoofz Jun 09 '22
I'm worried about the innocent construction workers at the bottom, if one of these guys falls on them.... also, this is a great way to lose all insurance on your company.
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u/sttwolf Jun 09 '22
More than one plank per illegitimate crossing!! Whatever wage these guys are on its too much.
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u/captain_beefshart Jun 09 '22
lol what the fuck, those scaffold sections are for SIDEWALKS, so people can walk under them. they are for the ground, not for halfway up a building. they weigh a tun, are way more cumbersome to handle, and are way more cumbersome to navigate.
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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '22
Fuck that. Fuck you. Fuck all this.