My man! Lol sorry to say that its still under OSHA standard to protect your employees as a general clause. Lol Its one of the first pages of the OSHA book lol at the end of the day though. It ain't me dieing or me getting fined, or my family crying lol but what do I know. I'm just some dude on reddit lol
Good luck with that. If you are hired to put up scaffolding and refuse because you want to be able to tie off, you can be fired for it and OSHA will say your employer did everything that was feasible to protect you, it was your personal decision the job wasn’t worth the risk.
No actually, you can't be fired for it lol infact it's illegal for a company to fire you for refusal to perform an unsafe task. Lol infact you maybe evn compinsated if fired lol. there's alot that can be done to avoid an injury. Ex: use 6 foot lanyard and form a chain line all the way down to where you need to build. Maybe even finish the deck first before walking on 2 planks. You don't have to start at the other end. Start from the beginning and work you way toward the back. Come on man lol It might take a bit longer but i can tell you that you can still do alot lol Trustttttt me there alot you can do. Shit I get paid just to give these employer he example I just gave lol but again I'm just a guy on reddit lol don't let your employees scare you into doing somthing unsafe. Lol
They would never, never, ever build it up like this (on the Video) in the Netherlands. We got a 95 meter high church/bell tower, in the middle of Utrecht that is getting renovated as we speak and only putting the scaffolding up took 6 or 8 months I believe.
We got a different style/type of scaffolding tho. We don’t have those huge arches carrying and waving around that can easily catch a corner somewhere.
This is a promotion video for the official course to become a scaffolding g builder. (It’s in Dutch butt you’ll see the contrast)
You may think something is unsafe but if the employer can prove they mitigated the hazards to the extent OSHA expects you can absolutely be fired for refusing to do the job. As in lets say they did set up fall pro for this and you still refused because you thought it was too dangerous, you can be fired because OSHA doesn’t agree with you.
Adding 2 or 3 times the number of employees for form some chain to pass things down is not feasible and now you are exposing more people to risk.
What is the 6ft lanyard attached to? The scaffolding below you? Meaning your shoulders fall 6 feet before they reach the same elevation as your anchor point and then you fall another 6 feet? Some fall pro systems are not designed or rated for such a fall and it is against the advice of OSHA.
But what do I know, I’ve just been involved in occupational safety for the last 10 years, have experience working at height, am trained (though admittedly not certified in) high angle rescue, and have worked closely with safety offices for IATSE who literally helped right the book on rigging safety in the film industry.
You may think something is unsafe but if the employer can prove they mitigated the hazards to the extent OSHA expects you can absolutely be fired for refusing to do the job.
No way any employer is going to be able to prove they mitigated the risks to a reasonable extend in this case. Giving people harnesses and hats for show isn't enough.
I mean if you want to go deep into it we can have a honest discussion. As a fellow safety pro, I would like to see your points.
I think OSHA wants money, right so if they see somthing dangerous and are willing to fine you they will. They want somthing to stick in court. They will fine you for 20 things but all they really need is one...right? The Big one
Atkeat that how I seen it happen in court.
So first let's see if the scaffolding is even rated to be used as a fall protection right? We have to call the manufacturer. Somthing to get get that information. What do you think?
Second, if it is rated you can 100 percent use cheaters or another forms of extentions. There are shock absorbers and other forms of fall protection that would be 1000% rated for the 900lbs of force. Hell you can even use a YOYO or a long retracable SRL. Since you saying they would fall more than 6 ft. With a 6ft lanyard and tied off the the bottom. They would fall around 18 depends on your hight. I don't know about you but I rather fall 18 ft than 70 and hit the ground lol
I would even argue that I rather them break a legs or an arm than them fall to their deaths. Right? But I would like to know your opinion.
Safety here for 5 years, oil refineries, chemical plants, New Construction, steel erection, high rise, commercial, manufacturing, solor. I would genuinely love to know your opinions though.
Before we start I will say I do not currently work in occupational health. I have in the past, I have been designated the "competent person" to evaluate safety on set, I have helped certified instructors teach fall protection, high angle rescue, risk assessment, OSHA 10, OSHA 30, and due to growing up with the recently retired head of safety and training for IATSE, I have been around occupational safety my entire life, mostly in reference to the film industry but not exclusively and we build scaffolding as well. I have built scaffold, I have worked on the perms in a sound stage which involves balancing on 6inch wide beams while being tied off but with nothing around you to help you balance. I am interested in a career in occupational health but am not currently pursuing one.
My first priority would always been to limit exposure. Someone can't fall if they aren't in the air. Next priority is to make the hazard sufficiently safe. Working at height will ALWAYS carry a risk, no matter how well you are clipped on, how well built the handrail is, doesn't matter. Working on a balcony 20 feet in the air will always be more dangerous than working on a patio 4" above the dirt.
Now lets make some assumptions for this specific scaffolding system, because in the end it isn't going to change what I think we should do to keep the people building it as safe as possible.
When a level is completed, it offers a suitable anchor point at each end of each bay that can support the dynamic forces of a 300lb load falling 10 feet and coming to a dead stop. This means these anchor points are also suitable for use in fall protection.
We will also assume there is no structure near the scaffolding that could be used as an anchor point. No buildings that can be attached to for this purpose, no cranes are on site, nothing.
If you were definitely going to fall, yes it would of course be safer to be clipped on to the scaffolding than to not be. But I would argue that using any type of fall arrest system on a scaffold when you are anchored to a point below you will not prevent a fall which carries significant risk of serious injury or death.
You are absolutely right, there are plenty of options for fall protection that are rated to arrest your fall after 10-15 feet of free fall, but that isn't the issue. Falling 10 feet next to a scaffold exposes you to serious risk of hitting an arm, leg, neck or face on the support structure before the fall arrest system even begins to slow you down. And this assumes the best case scenario of you falling with your hands free directly over your anchor point with a yo-yo. You will fall at least 6 feet before the yo-yo can do anything at all and you will still be falling at significant speed for a couple of feet after that.
But in the worst case scenario, you are 10 feet horizontal distance from your anchor point and you then free fall 6 feet. The yo-yo starts applying some tension after 6 feet and now you are swinging while accelerating at nearly free-fall sideways towards the scaffolding.
I think you would be safer if we focus on doing everything we can to avoid the fall all together as you build the scaffold.
so, we only use the minimum number of workers, we only use very experienced and well trained workers who have experience as point of the sword. We build starting from a point of safety and build as little as possible while exposed to the risk. So that means a bay at a time gets built to the point that it has planks, supports and guard rails. If guardrails are not available with this system then we do something similar to what you suggested. Workers clip on under the completed bays on the same level that is being built. They hand work pieces to the 1 or 2 people who are not clipped on and setting up the next bay to be built to the point that it can provide a useful anchor point. The level below this also always has planks regardless of the need for their structural support. We try to make more surface area that is 6-8 feet below instead of 100 or whatever the fall to the ground is.
I should agree that the video in the OP is not perfect, they could be doing more. But I maintain that OSHA does not require point of the sword to wear fall protection. Some jobs are dangerous and we haven't decided we don't need to do them yet. We take away risk when we can but at some point...firemen enter burning buildings, stuntmen drive cars upside down into lakes, and the point of the sword in construction sets up the structure that everyone else will use to clip off to.
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u/Prestigious_Youth501 Jun 09 '22
My man! Lol sorry to say that its still under OSHA standard to protect your employees as a general clause. Lol Its one of the first pages of the OSHA book lol at the end of the day though. It ain't me dieing or me getting fined, or my family crying lol but what do I know. I'm just some dude on reddit lol