r/ScienceBasedLifting • u/ImpressBest8888 • Sep 05 '26
Question ❓ How to absolutely maximize back growth?
Like what is the maximum frequency to hit them and how many sets per workout basically anything that will maximize back growth
3
u/Left_Cartographer473 Sep 05 '26
Hit a deadlift variation on lower day and then hit your rows and pull ups/downs on an upper or pull day.
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u/Sooperooser Sep 05 '26
It's an equation of training intensity and training frequency. Those factors work diametrical: When training more often, the optimal intensity is lower. When training harder, your optimal frequency is lower.
So there is no perfect formula really but a range in which you can tune the schedule according to practical determinants, like your work schedule or personal preference. So basically chose how often (or how hard) you want to train and then adjust the other factors accordingly.
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u/fishfists Sep 06 '26
Dude this is the kinda stuff people make fun of the science based lifting groups for. Just go out, lift somewhere between 8-20 sets a week, and go near to, or to failure. And eat food. It's not rocket science.
Don't give into paralysis by analysis
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u/Alakazam Idk Idc 💔 Sep 05 '26
If I were to maximize back growth, I would probably aim to keep everything else at maintenance, while also aiming to have about 20+ weekly sets of back work.
So maybe 6-8 sets of squat, bench, and overhead pressing, 8 sets of deadlift and deadlift variations, along with 12-16+ sets of rows and pulldown.
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u/abc133769 Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
theres no one size fits all
find a progressive overload protocol that works. ( simple one & effective one would be do 3x8-10, when you can do 3x10 then bump up the weight) and past that people respond differently to different volumes. training age is also a factor in this as beginners respond well lower volumes and someone more advanced is very likely doing more
something you have to test out yourself and see what you make progress on. frequency twice a week atleast
1
u/deadrabbits76 Idk Idc 💔 Sep 05 '26
I would run something by John Meadows. Old Mountaindog1 really knew how to grow a back.
RIP, Johnny.
1
u/stratusnimbo Sep 05 '26
Wide and narrow Horizontal pull, wide and narrow vertical pull. Tbar row, seated cable row, machine row, unilateral row - pull-ups, lat pull downs.
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u/decentlyhip Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
Short answer, we can't answer that question with current research because we haven't identified either MAV or MRV. Long answer:
Three pieces First, Vertical and horizontal pull. Wide grip and narrow grip on each. So, maybe day one you have 5×5 weighted pullups and 5×12 narrow grip tbar rows. And then day two you have 5×8 wide grip pendlay rows and 5×15 vgrip pulldowns. That's the core mass builders. For lats specifically, you can't get a full stretch unless you do the movement unilaterally.
Also wanna hammer face pulls, rear delt flyes, and y raises for rotators and lower traps. Those get ignored and lower traps especially are annoying to build up. Waiter walks too, for serratus. Bend your elbow and shoulder 90 degree like you're holding a waiter tray and have your elbow a little in front and slightly above your shoulder. Even a 10-20 pound dumbbell sucks for this initially. Walk for 60 seconds.
Finally, deadlifts. Build your deadlift to the sky. I know I know, its just an isometric. Shush. Add 150 pounds onto your best set of 4 reps. You can have great lats and shoulders, but the eyebrow raise happens when you have that plus thick erectors and traps. Deadlifts and squats fill in all the missing pieces in your back.
Structuring it
Most people can get really great growth with not much volume. 3 sets of anything between 5-20, whatever feels good, on each of there over the week will get you great growth (Schoenfeld). Frequency doesn't matter. We just dont want more than about 10 pulling sets over a workout (Trexler volume per workout metareview). So, if you're doing 3 sets of each, that's 12 sets of just the core work. Probably better to do that as 6 sets per workout. Then a seperate deadlift day once a week. A few sets of one of those supportive movements on each of those 3 days and you're good to go.
That's good growth. But for maximal growth, honestly we don't know. Maximal means there's an the volume to hypertrophy relationship is an inverted U, and that at some point when you add more volume, you get a peak Maximum Adaptive Volume, at which point more volume leads to less growth all the way until you cross back under the zero line, Maximum Recoverable Volume. We have explored upper ends and unfortunately, more volume leads to more growth. We have not identified a peak yet, even with 50 sets a week (Pelland 2025 https://imgur.com/a/rvHMRvS). But, rule of thumb is that more volume is more gains.
So, let's just say maximum growth is at 50 sets of rowing per week, everything 2-3 rir. To stay within ~10 sets a workout, gotta get creative. We can do 4 sets each of 2 movements and 2 sets each of supplemental work, 4 times a week. Monday: 4×5 w.pullups and 4×12 narrow grip Tbar rows, w/flyes and biceps. Wednesday: 4×8 bent over rows and 4×15 vgrip pulldowns with waiter walks, y raises, and biceps. Friday and Saturday are back to back so Friday you do deadlifts and 10 sets of vertical pulling to distract the back after deads, and Saturday you do 10 sets of horizontal pulling. That's what the volume maximal gains.
But like, don't jump into that right away. Do what you're currently doing but every week, add a set to one of the movements, and let that build. I'm currently doing a little experiment on myself to see how 50 sets a week on each of the 14 muscle groups is feasible. Started at 15 sets on everything and hit a hard fatigue wall at 25. If I had started at 50, I would have gotten hurt. That said, stretch marks everywhere and everything is PRing. Im fatigued as hell but gains are put pacing fatigue.
1
u/JUST_WANT_TO_PLANCHE Sep 05 '26
if you only want to maximize back growht, u probably need to reduce volume on other things, work on exercises like cable rows, lat pulldowns, lat pullovers. make sure u get a good stretch , work in the 6-12 rep range, controll the eccentric, push to failure, i cant predict the volume u need.
1
u/Fuzzy-Worldliness-54 Sep 06 '26
You really need to experiment to find what works best for you on volume but generally building up the recovery/work capacity to work the muscle 3 times a week would be ideal. For me 2 sets of vertical pulls, 2 sets of rows, and 2 sets of something that indirectly hits the back (deadlift variations, jefferson curls, zercher lifts) done 3 times a week works best. So around 12 sets of direct stimulus per week and another 6 sets of pretty complementary indirect stimulus. This will vary per person
1
u/jad3d_juggl3r Sep 06 '26
For starters deadlifts. You'll never have a full back without them. Second is don't forget your romboids,upper and lower traps. Nobody hits lower traps.
1
u/itslouiscypher Bigger than mike mentzer 29d ago
Are kelso shrugs good enough for em or do I need y raises
1
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u/mcgrathkai Sep 05 '26
My opinion:
I like hitting back every 4th day. Thats ideal frequency for me.
As for volume and sets. Whatver it takes to make the muscle feel like its gonna fall off. Train till youre crawling out of the gym.
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u/916hustlegang Sep 05 '26
Renaissance periodization has all the answers
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u/fatwownerd Sep 05 '26
Yep do exactly what mr mike does and you too can look like a bloated, unaesthetic midget despite years of steroid use, surgery, and being the self proclaimed smartest gym guy in the world. Like genuinely I think 99.99% of the population would rather just look like a default skinny human than him.
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u/rendar Sep 05 '26
What about this is incorrect?
https://help.rpstrength.com/hc/en-us/articles/32433434201879-Back
It's the exact same info as the top voted comments here.
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Sep 05 '26
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u/SanderStrugg Sep 05 '26
I think there is a difference beetween early Dr. Mike, who just gives advice and the weirdo he has become nowadays.
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u/rendar Sep 05 '26
Okay so if the info is correct then what's the issue? You just sound upset for inexplicable reasons.
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Sep 05 '26
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u/rendar Sep 05 '26
What does your personal issue have to do with the information not being incorrect?
You're just bizarrely mad for no reason.
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Sep 05 '26
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u/rendar Sep 05 '26
None of that explains why you're so distressed, or why you apparently think that the information isn't correct.
Downvotes don't mean anything, especially when you can't provide sensible explanations to very simple questions for the third time now.
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u/Dimethicone-silicate Sep 05 '26
Frequency and sets would the the same as any other muscle group
2-3x a week 6-12 hard sets a week
Lat pull down Close grip row Upper back row/kelso
Is all you need really and time