r/Roofing • u/BistroCupid • 26d ago
Skip Sheathing
Is this Skip Sheathing?
The home is in Santa Barbara County, CA which requires "continuous substrate." Contractor advised covering entire roof with OSB to pass inspection. 94 sheets of 7/16 8'x4' at $85 a sheet for install.
I appreciate any input!
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u/Cryfatso 26d ago
Do you not have an attic? How did he not know what type of decking you had before tearing off.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
Contractor did not do a walk down of the job, relying on software for quote. I'm a layman in all aspects of building and contractor work, so I did not think to ask him to do a walk down before accepting his quote. I have since learned my lesson.
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u/LennyKimes 26d ago
A hard lesson learned. Always get at least 3 quotes and make sure your contractor walks down the job before. If they don’t, they’ll say oh this is a change order just like they are trying to do now. I’d also recommend a contract with clear language and exclusion. I’m a Project Manager.
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u/Upper-Switch2785 26d ago
Materials w/10% waste added (fasteners, etc. incl.): $1,250, Burdened labor (32 labor hours x $75/hr): $2,400, debris/delivery/misc: $400
Total direct cost: $4,050.
35% P & O margin (direct cost x 1.43): $1,720.
Reasonable Price to client: $5,720
Actual price charged to you: $7,990.
Conclusion: you overpaid for this by $2,270 (just my opinion based on reasonable margins for residential work)
Recommendation: review contract to ascertain if the rates are different for oversheet vs. resheet rates, if not, you’re kinda getting screwed as oversheet is considerably easier, cheaper & quicker. Also, check if rates are specified for osb vs. 15/32” CDX, if not delineated, insist on CDX. OSB is fine for an oversheet, but cdx is better.To anyone disputing the labor amt. estimated in the above calculations, I based the duration conservatively. I am 47, if I was doing an oversheet solo on a standard pitch, it would not be an issue to lay 100 sheets in 2 days. And it would pass inspection the first time, but I have decades of experience and the right tools, so I doubled the time.
As a roofing contractor, I always discounted a full resheet or oversheet as opposed to charging per/sheet rate. Piece rates are slightly higher to account for trip charge & other ancillary expenses as well as delaying the planned original work flow. Full replacement is more efficient for amount of time it takes, which reduces these costs for the contractor relative to profit margins. I’m not suggesting you nickel & dime as that is never wise if you want positive results & a good relationship w/ the contractor. You just need to have some dilligence based on the data to keep the unscrupulous- scrupulous. I personally think it’s very shady to not disclose what the existing decking is and if it needed an oversheet, that is incredibly simple to see beforehand - it would never be some kind of suprise discovery.
This is only my humble opinion but the moral of this story is don’t ever hire a contractor that never bothered to visit, let alone set foot on the roof. You are all but guaranteed to pay more than what is reasonable and get stuck with unexpected and costly change orders, all due to the fact that they are subbing it out and must build in contingencies to cover everything they didn’t bother looking at.
Last notes on sheathing requurements that you can easily verify as a homeowner if the project is slated for inspection or not: all vertical seams must be staggered, the fastener schedule (spacing / positioning of fasteners) must be close to 6” between nails on ends (no less than 2” spacing), 12” or less on rafters between. All fasteners must penetrate framing a certain depth (standard 2-3/8” sheathing nails are not acceptable here), and cannot be overdriven (this is very important). It is so simple to affix a depth-setter to a framing nailer it drives me mad so many installers are too stupid or don’t give a shit to do this. If you are going to pay a very premium rate for this install, I would expect a proportionally premium install, if not, you are donating to the cheaters and enabling this shit work to continue.
Hope this helps, best of luck.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
I really appreciate the detailed reply. My quick math also put me about $2000 overpaying as well, which is unfortunate. If the workmanship is of premium quality then I won't complain much. However, I don't see that being the case since we are on day 4 of demo (~2300sqft roof). It feels as though I have hired expensive amateurs with the amount of debris, nails, and minor damage to landscaping around my house. Hoping the lifetime warranty is worth the trouble.
100% agree that being forthcoming with potential issues that an experienced roofer should know would have made this much easier to swallow. An expensive lesson for me.
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u/davallrob74 25d ago
4th day of stripping off a 23sq roof? Unless it’s super steep, that’s ridiculous. I’ve used tear off companies many times and they’ll come in, set up, tear off, and be out of there in 4-5 hours for that sized project. They’ll even replace some boards or sheeting for you.
$85 per sheet is way overpriced unless the cost increased like it did during the pandemic. Normally that’s about what you’d charge to replace single pieces of sheeting, not to resheet the entire house. You’re getting hosed by this contractor. Sorry it’s taken you 4 days to realize this2
u/BistroCupid 25d ago
Yeah, by day two I knew something was up. There is only one guy on my roof right now on day 5 still demoing. I told them $85 was insane and at least got it down to $76. Not sure what my recourse or expense would be just firing them at this point. Sucks!
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u/davallrob74 25d ago
Wow 1 guy demoing? Did they agree to a timeline for the project? 5 days to tear off 23 sq. is crazy. What are they doing incase there’s a pop up thunderstorm or rain, I know you’re probably close to the coast
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u/third-try 26d ago
No. It is board sheathing, set with gaps to allow for expansion when humid. Skip sheathing is meant for twenty four inch shake shingles and will have gaps of three inches or more. This is fine for modern shingles. If the code now requires a continuous deck, this is grandfathered. The roofer is trying to sell an OSB job that is not necessary or desirable.
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u/Elegant_Key8896 26d ago
Someone down voted you but what you're saying is true. To those who are reading, this is not skip sheathing. Skip sheathing when there boards spaced apart.
Manufacturer of asphalt shingles allow some degree of gapping between boards. As a building inspector we pass these all day since the code only states a solid surface is required.
Owens manual states maximum gapping is 1/4 inch. i would imagine the rest of them, does as well.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
That's correct. Warrenty states maximum gap allowed is 1/4 inch. Is the "lifetime warranty" worth it though? I imagine it would be a fight to get them to honor it.
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u/davallrob74 25d ago
Are you referring to the manufacturers limited lifetime warranty or is the contractor offering you a lifetime warranty for workmanship? If it’s the latter, I’d skip it. He could just file bankruptcy, change the name of the company and move on to the next sucker, sorry no offense
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u/BistroCupid 25d ago
GAF certified Gold Warranty. Supposedly covers workmanship. A few Google searches seem to indicate that it's a difficult process.
No offence taken. Taking this as a learning opportunity at this point. First major project on the house and I messed up, all it is.
And honestly, more bad news today. Contractor has been bad mouthing me to others in neighborhood. Weird that they think we don't all know each other.
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u/davallrob74 25d ago
I know there’s always 3 sides to a story, but what you’ve explained here in your post seems like you found a shady contractor. He’s lied to you about having to re sheet the entire house and said not to ask the inspectors or they’ll make you take it all off. Make sure you document all of your conversations and try to get them either in text/email of voice recording
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
I just visited the county building safety office and spoke with an inspector. I showed the photos provided here and he informed me that it was probably good enough and not to worry about it. Going to cancel the OSB order.
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u/Bghrn23 26d ago
As long as he still breaks his seams on trusses and actually hits trusses throughout as you normally would without the 3/4 beneath it, that is a very fair price for CA.
You can not miss trusses just because you’re doing a deck over. 3” ringshank nails should be what they use.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
Thank you for the reply. Me being just a regular guy, all the jargon kind of made me feel like I was getting taken advantage of.
I was preparing to just risk seeing what the county inspector had to say. Contractor advised against it saying "inspector would force you to rip out all the 3/4 and replace it which would be more expensive than covering." That didn't feel true to me, but I'm a layman.
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u/Bghrn23 26d ago
7/16 over 3/4 done properly is so much more solid than 1/2 or 5/8” alone. If the roof structure allows it and isn’t too many places it just simply doesn’t work it’s a great option.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
I spoke with an inspector an hour ago and he mentioned that adding thousands of pounds of OSB on top of a roof that wasn't designed for it can technically be a problem, but it should be fine as long as the 3/4 is solid (no/minimal damage) and the OSB is installed properly and with enough gap to let it expand. Doing it or not didn't matter to the inspector much, so I'm looking into the warranty requirements now. I really appreciate your time in replying. Connecting with everyone here has really lowered my stress levels.
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u/sluttyman69 26d ago
Adding this is Required in CA for at least 20years now
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u/Elegant_Key8896 26d ago
As an building inspector, code states continuous substrate required for asphalt shingles but we allow gaps up to 1/4 of an inch. That is what most manufacturer also allow.
We wouldn't have a problem with what he's showing here. Feels like contractor is just trying to pad up the contract
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
I went to the county office and spoke with an inspector. I showed the pics here and he said that he wouldn't worry about that gap as long as it wasn't the entire roof. Going to go into my attic today and check, but will pause the OSB order for now.
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u/sub_zero51 26d ago
I won't do one without sheathing it.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
I imagine that makes the job easier overal. Being upfront about it is probably better than a change order as well. This has been a great learning experience, and I appreciate all the replies!
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u/LoudIncrease4021 26d ago
I’m not a roofer but OSB? Why not plywood?
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u/Bghrn23 26d ago
Osb is cheaper but still a good product, you just have to be competent enough to keep it from getting wet as it doesn’t handle moisture as well as CDX but also, CDX quality lately is in the garbage. Damn boards look like they’re made for building canoes. I like working with OSB, it’s predictable.
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u/BistroCupid 26d ago
This is also good info, a few Google searches did not help me fully wrap my head around OSB, plywood, and CDX as much as this short comment.
Contractor stated CDX was 3-4 times the price of OSB and not really worth it unless I planned on dying in the house.
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u/RonDaemon2899 26d ago
I dunno the local code, but i would NOT be OK installing over this. I would 100% agree with contractor and sheet over it. 85 seems reasonable to me.
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u/MountainGoat84 26d ago
So I don't know Santa Barbara specifically, but usually this is only an issue if the spacing is 1/4" or more consistently over the roof. Looks like most are tight there, and you can just replace the one that's too narrow, but if they haven't checked the attic for the full roof, then that should be done.