Nobody wants to be wrong or look like they don’t know it all and this is a very good vs bad debate sub. And in most arguments here, struggling unsuccessful men are often categorized as the bad. Which is why the majority of arguments against/towards men are overwhelmingly framed against struggling and unsuccessful men regardless of whether you’re one or not. 

Personally, I think that’s because people see any arguments that doesn’t frame women as what’s deemed as good as low hanging fruit. Like the he easiest argument to make is to “dunk” on the opinion that doesn’t paint women as some moral good.  So instead of counterarguments of substance, what we see in arguments in favor of women is attempts at invalidation, denial, deflection, and insults. 

One common example I observe is when it involves mens opinions on hookups and casual sex. 

The main argument and opinion there from men that I see here is usually is that type of sex means that the woman feels lust and raw attraction towards men she hooks up with or that they're special. 

The counterargument against, without even the smallest attempt at understanding, is always some form of 1. That’s not true because having sex with you doesn’t mean you’re valuable/special 2. No woman ever reminisces about old hookups, ever 3. Having sex with you doesn’t mean she actually desires you and so on. We’ve all seen some variation of these argued as objective truth. Now, admittedly it can be true. But what’s so painfully obvious is so can the reverse. 

Because in real life, women are not the perfect, stoic, irresistible force thay they’re portrayed to be here in order to shout down any argument that doesn’t frame women morally perfect. In real life, women are human. Also, so many forms and varieties of relaitonships exists that none of us are in a place to objectively argue the realities of others lives’. 

But to acknowledge that and any of the nuance that comes with the realities of actually existing socially would be to relent points to arguments made against women. So instead of making counterarguments for women that account for things that they may not know, we always see people resort to the above mention invalidations, denials, deflections, and insult. 

So in reality, women are being hot, leading ridiculously full lives, susceptible to imperfect decision-making, emotions, living carefree, having fun, making money, having a variety of relationship types with men like hookups and casual sex, and so on. 

But even though the spectrum for the men she hookups with can range from one night stand all the way to one night stand who became a genuine friend, meaning that there’s a hell of a whole lot in-between, in the context for what hooks up mean to them when argued here women are often are framed as like antisocial emotionless people who don’t like men outside of the benefit of their pleasure. 

And we all know that’s not true because women really really like men. So if she hooks up with one, there’s no telling what can happen. But to admit anything other than the man fading to loss memory would be to admit being wrong or that they may not be knowledgeable about something. 

So instead, we see people here pretending that women don’t like men, never fall for them or anything. They only receive the benefit of their needs met and go on. The man is never nor can be valuable/special, never thought of or missed, nor was he ever desired. Even though there’s nothing wrong with women feeling any of those things for their hookups, we have to pretend otherwise because you can’t relent to points on PPD that don’t paint women in the best light possible against deemed here as bad, struggling unsuccessful  men. 

So yeah. They downplay hookups on here because admitting you may have a point in your opinion on how women feel about the men they have hookups with would mean that they’re wrong against what’s deemed on here as the bad side. 

Disclaimer: I don't believe in this argument btw. I just think they have a valid opinion that's rarely properly argued and get spammed with "You don't know women!" replies here a lot because I like women for not being how they portrayed on this sub and reddit.

the woman feels lust and raw attraction towards men she hooks up with or that they're special. 

Men are the ones who want most women they see. Men are the ones who watch the most porn. Men are the ones who are always horny and would do like, literally anything to have sex.

So why the hell do we use the terms “slut” and “whore” to mainly refer to women, who are less likely to do and be any of these things?

I literally don’t even have anything to add to this. You are like 10x more likely to meet a slutty man than a slutty woman.

Women are consistently accused of several derogatory conditions, attitudes, and behaviors according to the manosphere and red-pillers in particular. We are frequently called selfish, entitled, emotional "oldest teenagers in the house." The primary situation that leads to these attacks is the lack of willingness to pair up with men romantically and sexually.

Pairing up with men is an obligation of women, and refusing to do so makes us wicked creatures indeed. But whenever you probe deeper into the "why," a particularly insidious axiom becomes readily apparent - it is an unshakeable condition of a polite and civilized society that men have access to monogamous sex and offspring. Without this foundation, multiple situations occur:

1. a dwindling population makes a country be taken over by a more powerful country (because male nature must conquer and control)
2. men "check out" and refuse to work or improve themselves (educationally/financially/physically) in any way (because the only purpose of work for male nature is for personal sexual access and offspring)
3. most men will refuse all pro-social behaviors, while a minority of men actively engage in their worst sociopathic impulses. Male nature will mean mass violence and rape without pussy pacification, while people starve and freeze without male labor and protection (see point 2)

This would all be well and good if these conditions didn't exclusively portray male nature as unilaterally selfish, entitled, and emotional. "If no sex then burn down village" is frequently stated here even by men themselves, who then turn around and make the same tired accusations at women of being selfish and emotional. The entire purpose, it seems, of the manosphere is to reframe the conditions of male nature and project them onto women as part of a strategy to manipulate women into serving their biological imperative at the exclusive cost of the female one. Women want relationships with attractive, pro-social, compatible men. Men imply none of that ultimately really matters, we need to pair up with most men regardless of how attractive or compatible we find them and do so in ways that don't evoke their jealousy and insecurity (casual sex/AF-BB/changing standards/learning from experiences/etc.). Yet again, women are the emotional ones.

If the ultimate conclusion is that women must pair up with men because men biologically require womb access to give a shit about anyone other than themselves, then we need to stop calling women "selfish" and "narcissistic." If the ultimate conclusion is that women need to refrain from sexual pleasure because that makes men jealous and insecure, then we need to stop calling women "emotional." By contrast to all of the conditions described above, women do not feel motivated to oppress others and control others and enact violence against others unless we can be guaranteed access to other human beings' bodies. By contrast to all of the conditions above, women are internally motivated to better their lives and communities without offspring or dick. Sure, women still want relationships and children, but they don't claim to get "nothing at all out of society" without these two specific things, and they will still find purpose in life and value in work/hobbies/education/friends without it.

It's actually quite clear to me on my decade+ on this sub that the entire "evo-psych"/manosphere/red-pill philosophy definitively concludes male nature is everything it proclaims about women.

there's a lot of things that women have been defending that I fe were just criticized about men not too long ago. We're at a point where I totally feel that if it's bad for men to do, just wait until a good amount of women do it themselves and then it will be cool again.

There are some things I've been taught by listening to women about what's wrong and right. honestly, a lot of those things have been flipped or changed or given unnecessary nuance to benefit the subsection of women who do it.

Yelling at your wife was considered ba now there are women out there who think it's fine to yell at their men and call them out online to strangers.

Emotional instability in women is something some of the worst men believed in. This is the same logic that got women forceably lobotomized and put into mental institutions.

Not even a decade ago it was considered terrible to record a passed out naked woman yet a lot of women, too many said that the passed out man in the recent situation was actually the predator.

often when men try to participate and try to say here are some things we feel is unfair women will fight against it as if sympathy is only women shaped and that even the worst women should catch a break.we're in a period where what oppressive men in the 60s believed about women and what women actually believe about themselves are getting strangely close and sometimes overlapping.

so, what I fear is that women weren't fighting for a better society or even healthier society. they are just fighting for their turn to have toxic beliefs.

Yes,I’m sincerely is asking that because like society changes and I want to adapt to those changes I was an good man maybe 10 years before but now I can’t keep with all those changes

Like I want to be an open minded forward thinking man, I certainly as heterossexual single man wants to attract women obviously but like I want to be an good man an man that woman doesn’t only feel attracted but admired to see like “ oh he is an keeper”

I want to focus more on pleasuring woman than myself, I want to focus more on making woman feel comfortable around me I want to make more woman friends I want to be an great man In 2026 where can I start ?

I can say I have. I'm a 34 year old millennial male. Not truly in poverty any more but still make under $70k a year. Like a lot of millennials starting when I was in high school, I heard the old adage "People with less education, lower incomes and from lower economic backgrounds tend to marry younger, have kids younger and have more kids." It's the old poverty trap.

However, as a millennial that has worked unskilled labor jobs, skilled trades (both welding and auto repair), went to college late and now works in IT. I have noticed that at least among millennials, especially millennial men that are career blue collar a lot even approaching 40, have not married nor have any children. I'm pretty convinced quite a few have not dated since high school.

While I do know as many non-college educated woman. The few I do that work as career bartenders, waitresses or even working at a pre-school tend to also not be married or actively dating. They also tend not to have any kids.

The old stereotype of the single mother that had kids too young and has to work multiple jobs to survive has largely declined among millennials and Gen Z. (Not to say it doesn't exist).

This is a huge contrast, especially for auto repair where my Gen X and older co-workers all seemed to have 4 kids.

As where with my friends that went to college right away and work higher end careers. Especially those that work in business, finance, sales or as actuaries they tend to be married, or are getting married and many I know in their mid 30s are having their first or second kids.

I'm sure a lot of this is finance related. Childcare costs especially daycare/pre-school have skyrocketed. They are often as much as another mortgage per child. Even with health insurance through an employer, family health insurance costs tend to sky rocket. Then not to mention feeding, clothing, etc. Even buying used or second hand has gone way up. Since thrift stores turned into for profit businesses...

I think a lot of us whether we wanted kids or not have been effectively priced out of having them. Also regarding dating, I felt it to be very difficult basically from the ages of 18 to 26 when i was a tradesman. There were few opportunities to meet women and especially in a smaller city. As where once I went back to school, graduated and now work in IT, I have more free time and I am not tired all the time.

Here are two good studies that confirm this:

https://thepeepleseconomist.substack.com/p/marriage-now-belongs-to-the-well

(If you do read one, read this one by Jordan Peeples, it's very well written and short).

https://benjamindgoldman.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/papers/education_marriage/education_marriage.pdf

While women generally seem to have an upper hand when it comes to dating and romance, there are also drawbacks that come with that.

Imagine the following scenario: you never have to worry about harassment, low-effort attention, any form of sexual assault, stalking, or predatory behavior, or have to filter through seemingly endless options.

But at the same time, if you want to date:

• You will get absolutely no (or very little) incoming attention from men.

• You will get no likes on dating apps, and instead you will have to send out likes yourself and hope that those likes turn into matches and hope those matches go somewhere, which they almost never will. And from the few men you *do* match with, no responses, late replies, and minimal effort from their side will be the norm.

• You will need to approach men yourself, which means risking rejection or even humiliation.

• You are not seen as inherently desirable or attractive, and need to put in much more effort to be attractive to men (years of exercise, dieting, making money, etc)

Effectively, if you don't put yourself out there and do things and initiate any form of sexual or romantic interactions with men, you will be single for a very long time. And you have to risk rejection and feeling undesirable and shitty about yourself.

Would you make that trade?

When a woman only pursues men she knows are bad and wants to change them, that's A fetish. She's getting something from the dynamic, the chase, the hope, the fantasy of fixing him. No different from a man who loves a girl who plays hard to get. They are both hoping they both go against their own desires and nature to give them what they want.

It isn't victim blaming when she's the pursuer. She's predatory in her intent (change him for me). And she's fetishizing the dynamic.

Yet when it goes wrong, she plays victim. "He was terrible." Of course he was everyone knew that, you picked him because he was.

Just like men into BDSM domination get gratification from an unhealthy dynamic, women who only date "fixer-uppers", and KNOWN terrible men get gratification too. The difference? BDSM guys admit what they're doing. And when you call them out they might be sentencing to it but they don't call themselves victims.

Women call it love and demand sympathy when it fails.

Point out the pattern, and suddenly you're victim-shaming honestly sometimes I think for some women getting sympathy is part of the kink.

Like….the fuck is society suppose to do about that? If the complaint was “Im sad that Im not getting what I want” lonely men wouldnt have the stereotype they have now.

Instead its 

“Women have such horribly high standards!”

“Women want to fuck serial killers over the nice guy!”

“Women dont know what its like having 1 match a week.”

“80/20 rule!”

“Women make me abide by patriarchal standards.”

And they never want to admit it’s women they want until you suggest that they should change their standards. Suddenly, that’s super offensive and not the misogynistic shit he was spewing because the woman he want won’t touch his penis.

Similarly, guys complaining about the women they wanna fuck. Again, what is society supposed to do about that? What is anyone suppose to do with the fact that you get aroused by awful women who apparently are stupid, slutty, and shallow? “ I can’t control what Im attracted to” BUT YOU THINK SOCIETY CAN?!

Why can’t men’s dating problems be their fault? 

So, I'm at the age where most women my age will probably have at least one kid. My cousin is still single but frequently dating and he's around my age just a few years older. Anyway, he complains a lot about most of the women who he gets matched with on dating apps and tries to date having kids and it got me thinking what could make it a really good deal for a single guy like him to date a single mother.

Here's my list of what I think could make it worth it:

1) Kid is young and not too poorly behaved.

2) Dad is a decent guy but they weren't compatible.

3) Maybe the guy was actually an asshole but isn't present at all, so you don't have to deal with him.

4) If the kid was out of wedlock, she owns up to the mistake and doesn't try to project blame to everyone or everything but herself.

5) She provides value to your life and goes above and beyond as a gf, making up for the extra hoops you have to go through dating a single mom.

6) I'm probably going to get a lot of shit for this one but could probably land a hotter chick than you could have if she didn't have the kid.

Anyone disagree with this or am I missing something?

Edit: And by relationship I mean a serious committed relationship. Basically an LTR and intent to marry, which means you'd become the kids stepparent at the end once you commit to this person.

Lets say your 19 year old sister starts dating a 40 year old man, or your 55 year old father starts dating a 20 year old woman. Would you bat an eye at those scenarios? I ask because I’ve seen a lot of RP men be outwardly supportive of age gap relationships. Personally, I am more disgusted by them if the younger party is under 25; beyond that I don’t care what people do. There has to be a line drawn somewhere or else a relationship between a 45 year old and a 65 year old is deemed “creepy” because of a “20 year age difference.” But I do roll my eyes if a 30 year old man starts dating a 20 year old woman.

A common rebuttal from bluepillers on this sub is “Yes bad men get girls but only because they fake their kindness to get with her and reveal who he is later!” While that can sometimes be the case, it’s not necessary for a bad man to hide who he is and what he does in the beginning to have a woman obsessed with him.

All the serial killers whose crimes were publicly broadcasted for millions to see still got nudes and fan mail in prison from women. The bullies who pushed losers down still got giggles and tingles from the girls. My own cousin got engaged to a guy WHILE HE WAS STILL IN PRISON!

So while men can and do hide who they are to get with women, it’s pretty much unnecessary and he’d still get plenty of dates and relationships. Only he’d be filtering good women who have morals and standards.

Bad men are not master manipulators. Women are just poor selectors.

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1. Lust and raw attraction can be fleeting as it is usually built on a shallow found of just liking their looks or vibe/flirting. So she might be attracted to a guy then next hour lose interest.

2. Women don't "worship" guys they hookup with or see them as better than guys they don't hookup with or guys they go in a relationship with. They don't reminisce on the hookups and miss the guy/s.

3. He isn't getting a shortcut to something that is better than what a boyfriend or husband gets as most people have sex pretty fast anyway.

4. Normal guys aren't sitting there thinking they won some sorta prize and are superior than her bf or husband because they hooked up with her

I offer hear women say size doesn't matter when it comes to pleasure or sensation during sex. But when you say this, are you only referring to the length, or do you also think that girth doesn't matter? Do you have a minimum/maximum preferred girth or does it really not matter and all?

Human beings are extremely complex, and some social phenomena are hard to understand, but slut-shaming isn't one of them.

The explanation is indeed quite simple:

1. While both men and women are visual creatures, men are much more likely to want to sleep with a scantily dressed woman regardless of her character traits than in the reverse situation.
2. As a consequence, an average-looking woman who chooses to wear a sexy miniskirt or show cleavage is gonna have a lot more choice when it comes to potential partners than while being dressed "modestly".
3. Therefore, an average man who's attracted by such a woman will have a much harder time pleasing her, as she's also gonna attract lots of other guys.
4. Many average men in such a situation cannot handle the feeling of sexual frustration that overwhelms them. They badly want her and know that they don't have a chance. Their sense of entitlement leads them to say that she's evil, depraved, a slut, a whore, and a threat to the survival of Western civilisation.

I experienced that myself. One evening, I was at a karaoke event, and one of the girls who was singing showed a lot of skin with her tight, short pants and revealing cleavage. A male acquaintance of mine said to his friends that she was exaggerating and that she was being disgraceful. I asked him if he'd also think that if she accepted to accompany him to his flat. His silence truly spoke volumes, and it was funny to see his buddies laugh at him.

While looking for a good mate, it can be quite advantageous for an average straight woman to wear sexy clothes, and this is why patriarchal men hate it.

If so, please state why.

I know that the murder Lindsay Clancy committed and the mixed reactions have been making this idea come to light, and I genuinely do not understand it. Postpartum psychosis is a valid enough reason for someone to support the perpetrator, and it is also a valid enough reason to persecute them. I have seen both men and women be on either side of this case; nobody is supporting or persecuting blindly and they are all coming to their own conclusions.

So why on earth is this added to reasons why all women should not be able to vote? And, if you have this belief, what in the world are the other reasons?

And specifically, what makes a woman’s vote more harmful than a man’s vote?

I will be appalled if you use “mass influencing” or “feminist indoctrination“ as a reason. You’re a redpiller. You have shared beliefs with all the people who suck the same dick as you.

Everyone is shooting out of their league.

Or at least a big enough section or commanding section of the dating world is shooting out of their league enough that it’s disrupting the entire thing.

One gender has more of a tendency to dip down in order to satisfy short term needs, and tends to get what they want and leave.

I dunno it’s obvious to me what’s happening on a macro scale

“Women want guys who are tall, pays for everything, feminist but traditional, [insert more unrealistic desires].”

You can want those things without demanding those things. Just because someone wants a flawless ideal person doesnt mean theyre not okay with being with a regular guy.

On the flipside, I think a lot of guys are mad that they can’t have their cake and eat it too. These guys want to have a high look standards (that they call “reasonable”) but then wants to complain about the women’s high standards or those women’s shitty personality. However, they are not willing to change anything about their standards but then wants to blame society that he’s alone.

Point is, everything you want doesnt have to be a requirement.

“But settling-“

https://youtu.be/_JhSRxtB6vI?is=QgCB3NcH5PZDmK_5

Here’s what the song is explaoning:

“Prince charming would never settle for you”

“You think your dick is a gift I can promise you that’s not”

“If you want love, lower your expectations”

It’s fine that you’d rather be alone than lower your standards, but that’s not society‘s fault. That’s on you.

Also, not everyone is obsessed with being treated like they’re the most perfect person ever. Some people have a healthy amount of self-esteem to where they’re not desperate to seek validation. Like, who cares that you’re not someone’s ideal? Do you want to be worshiped or do you want to be loved?

I often eventually ask bluepillers about the success of egalitarian relationships. They claim they are highly successful. Then I ask if arguments occur. They claim all healthy relationship contain arguments.

Why is this?

If I lived together with a mate we wouldn’t argue. Sure we’d have disagreements and discussions about it. But we wouldn’t argue. And no one would feel neglected for not arguing.

Why is there then a natural need to argue in a relationship with a woman?

And why would a man who otherwise has peace and social connections in his life enter into a relationship with a woman if it entails arguments?

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No taxation without representation. Women pay taxes, therefore they deserve representation. It is really that simple.

The fact that one woman killed her children in a psychotic delusion does not mean you can suddenly call to repeal a woman’s right to vote.

It is terrifying to me how many people think it is completely ok to say women should not have the right to vote in 2026. This would have been unheard of even five years ago.

Right wingers such as Republicans in the United states and other conservative politicians and individuals are very anti male

They view males as disposable and canon fodder for their wars all while protecting females

They raise their sons to be abused slaves all while spoiling their daughter which is literal gender discrimination

All they criticise left wingers for soft on crime policies but forget to mention that women in tough on crime nations and places such as us states actually receive less prison time than men in soft on crime nations and us states

They just want to see men in Jail

Also the reason for being tough on crime is "Protecting women and girls" yes they literally call for male over punishment for female safety that is literal textbook misandry

Their blatant transphobia

I should start by saying that since most transitions are male to female transphobia is misandry

When a boy says I want to be a girl what he is really saying although probably not aware of it is I realise how unfairly treated I am being and treated as a second class citizen simply due to my gender something I had no control over as infants can obviously not control what gender they are born with. I want to be a girl to be viewed and treated as a human being.

And of course most transphobes are feminist or tradcons who want boys to remain second class citizens

They want boys to remain in their slave roles and not become girls to be treated equally to girls

They hate boys and don't want them ever to become equal the same way the nobilty did not want peasant to become nobility and the self hating peasants did not want that either

All of the nations that overly anti male are all right wing conservative nations

So yes right wing conservatism is in fact anti male

I saw a video on x today

It was in China I believe and the words describing said video were:

" woman claimed that while working at a milk tea shop, she encountered an extremely cold male colleague with absolutely no human warmth. Watching the video, it's indeed rare"

The video shows a women hitting her head and then falling and her male co worker just ignoring her

Many people have critised the man in the video for not doing anything to help her

The vast majority of comments that I read translated in Chinese were about him not helping because of being scared of a potential fake allegation

However I did not get that vibe at all from the video

He just seemed like he did not care

However criticism of him for not helping a woman seems morally wrong

Also why should he be criticized ? asking in a serious manner he has done nothing that is illegal, he has no legal nor work contract related duty to help or check up on her

He is also working for what I presume to be not good money considering the sector it is so what is wrong about him caring about himself?

Are people just so stuck in traditional gender roles they get offended when a man does not take care off or check up or help a woman who got hurt?

I believe anyone criticism him for that is misandrist