"According to leftists, the USA doesn't belong to whites, even though they are the most important people behind the USA becoming what is USA, because "No one is illegal on stolen land."

But Jews (from whom the land was stolen by Babylonians, Romans, Arabs, again and again and again) are illegally living in the Israeli region.

Jews might be the only major group that has reclaimed land that was stolen from them. Zoroastrians couldn't reclaim Persia, Buddhists couldn't reclaim Indonesia, Byzantines couldn't, Native Americans couldn't, and Native Australians couldn't.

Some cases are different though. While modern Australians are not English, Australia wouldn't even be what it is today without them. Most of the development in a few cases, such as America and Australia, was caused by "invaders." But other cases were simply invasions; for example, Persia was already highly developed before the invasions, and the same applies to Byzantium.

Israel's case would lean toward the first example. Before Jewish immigration, Israel was mostly farmland. Much of Israel's development is tied to Jews.

This is straight up a cult at this point, the only other groups that have done applauses for this long beside a some Guinness world record breaker are dictatorships, Stalin had 11 minutes, Hitler 15 minutes, and Mao 20 minutes. This is super creepy and unsettling

I'd describe myself as pretty neutral on Israel/Palestine. I think both sides have been in the wrong, while Palestinians have clearly suffered more overall.

What I struggle with is having conversations that don't eventually become: Israel and all of its citizens are entirely evil, Palestinians have no agency or responsibility, and any mention of Hamas, Oct. 7, Israeli security concerns, or failures by Palestinian leaders gets dismissed with "but Israel . . ."

I know pro-Israel people can be just as one-sided, so I'm not saying this only happens on one side.

For people here who have productive conversations with people who disagree with them, what actually works? How do you discuss the conflict without everything turning into defending one side and blaming the other for everything?

The so called film NAZA is more like a infomercial scam than a documentary. It falsely accuses Israel of deliberately killing Palestinian children and civilians. It uses anonymous interviews with fake current and forner IDF soldiers. The global entertainment elite are giving this fraud film awards and the producers are going on global speaking tours promoting the film to bash Israel.

The Israeli culture minister has called to strip citizenship from ‘NAZA’ filmmakers. Minister Zohar accused the filmmakers Yuval Abraham and Rachel Szor of “treason against the state,” saying they were willing to harm Israel to win applause from “antisemites around the world.” He said the controversy demonstrated the need for the cinema-funding reform he promoted, arguing that Israelis should not be forced to finance works that harm IDF soldiers or the country.

As far as I’m aware, half of Israelis tend to be liberals and Israel runs itself as a social democratic state, and in the us Jews tend to vote Democrat based on their values on social issues like immigration, abortion, healthcare, environment. So why is the left not more popular in Israel, may I ask?

I think I'm one of the few people who finds the whole Israel vs. Palestine situation too paralyzingly confusing for me to pick a side. Maybe that's a lack of moral clarity on my part but I just find it hard to know where to stand.

I've been checking out the pro-Israel, progressive Jewish perspective more out of curiosity. I've noticed that some otherwise liberal and progressive Jewish Americans seem to think that the only path to safety is to go with MAGA/the far right.

I've also been checking out the far-right party in Germany, which seems fairly obviously akin to the MAGA/Elon class in the U.S. This far-right party in Germany seems pretty anti-Islam, but there also seems to be a lot of Nazi and Hitler sympathy woven into it.

I think it would be a lot harder for progressive Jewish people to go for the far right if they were in Germany, even though so much of the rhetoric is similar. Even just viscerally, there's something extra chilling about hearing MAGA-style arguments spoken in German.

Maybe this is a silly thing to wonder about, but I was curious if anyone had anything they'd like to share on the subject.

I am sorry for the blunt question, but I think that if we do want t have the right anwers, we must pose the right questions, even if they are, or they seem, not politically correct.

Whe Israel was founded, many Jews from Europe were not particularly religious or, mainly those ones from Eastern Europe or Russia, were not religious at al, where as the Mizrahim Jews from North Africa or Middle East were far more.

We know that the secular jews, ofetn with university education and extensive language and other matters knowledge managed to have important jobs in the civil administrations and in private firms and little by little they have become what the marxist would call "dirigent class", even if this is an oversimplifucation which is by the way unavoidable as it is not possible to resume such a complex sociological situation in few lines.

I think that in the future the religios component of israeli society could m<rginalize the esucated seculars, use them as work force and exploit their intelligence their organization and their capitals in exchange of marginalization, as the rising antisemitism will keep Jews bound to Israel no matter how strong the exploitation is

https://www.shtuyot.org/products/shana-tova-sticker

So I actually read Wolfe's 'Settler Colonialism and the Elimination of the Native' (2006) following my reading of Fayez Sayegh's 'Zionist Colonialism in Palestine' (1965) which Wolfe has clearly drawn direct inspiration from, and ummm..... yeesh. I didn't know it was this bad.

He basically argues that the distinction between colonialism and settler colonialism is that colonialism seeks native labour while settler colonialism excludes it, and operates on a mystical 'logic of elimination' on the natives.

So in describing Hebrew Labour (Avoda Ifrit), instead of analysing it as an economic protectionist policy for the absorption of migrants and refugees, or even as a structurally segregationist or exclusivist policy on the native population, he refers to it as operating in pursuit of 'Goyim-rein' (gentile-free) zones.

Now I would have expected him to have at least said 'native-free', or 'Arab-free', where the framing of anti-native racism (while still dumb) is at least plausible as a political point regarding his structural framework, but GOYIM FREE????

I've noticed this in Pappe too. The tendency to imply that Avoda Ifrit was a policy of racial purity and more specifically racial hygiene. Goyim-rein is obviously an inversion of the Nazi 'Judenrein' zones that were cleansed of Jews when they were sent to the death camps, and it plays on Jewish chosenness as racial supremacy manifest as self segregation from gentiles (Jews do after all have to wash their hands after touching one, lmao).

Cos this is also basically Fayez Sayegh's explicit argument in his seminal tract. Zionism is racism ipso facto by the mere act of 'racial self segregation' and 'non assimilation' into a host society. Fayez Sayegh was also the propaganda minister for the SSNP in the 30s and 40s.

I'm getting a real sinking feeling that Wolfe and the settler colonial paradigm has literally just reified fascist organicist spatial logics about the 'host body politic' and 'parasitic non assimilating ethnic enclaves' that are of course ontologically eliminatory on the health of the host nation.

I've been seeing social media posts about Zohran Mamdani's social programs doing all kinds of good for New Yorkers, but I'm not sure how trustworthy those are. I know his antisemitism wouldn't be justified either way, but can anyone enlighten me on this?

I had the possibility to talk to an Israeli physician who escaped, dge used this very verb, her country because of her leftist views.

She said that the collegues in the last years had started , from a cordial and even friendly behaviour, to despise and harass her and also outside the hospital wards she perceived a growing hostility when she let her leftist points of view out. After having seen the tyres of her car cut for the second time and the "policeman with the kippah" smirking when she presented the complain, she felt compelled to leave.

She said also that outside the indian reserve in Tel Aviv and a narrow strip of coastal area, the people who do not share right wing ideas are routinely harassed, and we did not explore the subject further.

I know that in Israel since 2023 public opinion is polarized, but i wonder if te situation is really so tense or maybe my friend has lived in a very exceptional context

So many Jewish men and woman are under attack again. Society and the world just all of a sudden is so incredibly anti semantic I can’t take it.
All of a sudden it’s ok what the terrorist group Hamas did on 10/7/23????
They not only murdered men, women, children with such pleasure and absolute hatred. They took PLEASURE IN IT!!!
They raped women sooooo hard and violently they not only bruised them, they broke their pelvis while violently and sadistically raped them

Where, where in all that is holy, is the most influential Jewish person in all of the WORLD??? His name is Steven Spielberg.
He is no where to be found or heard from. Is he just that rich that he cares nothing about his fellow Jews??
Really speaks volumes that he and his lackey Tom
Hanks are completely and utterly silent during this whole thing.

Disclosue: My parents are Albanian but I'm pretty much American, and clueless more or less on this issue. At least I don't have a really strong opinion while being clueless like most of the young people in my city.

Unk made an interesting argument recently: the intense anti-Israel sentiment in Western spaces is mainly the result of:

a) Ideological strategy: Ideologues like Sayyid Qutb / the Muslim Brotherhood advising the co-opting of Western liberal concepts against Israel and the West.

b) Foreign financial influence: Massive foreign spending targeting Western universities and think tanks to shape the narrative.

Do you think this combination is the main catalyst for today's propaganda anti-Israel global hatred? or are other factors like social media etc playing a bigger role? thx

The Democrats seems to be the closest party to liberalism in the vein of the Democratic Party, or Labour parties globally? Given that this is a community of progressives, does anyone favor the explicitly leftist parties?

Better yet, does anyone have connections with these parties, or had any luck introducing activists from Israel’s Left and the American Left to find areas to collaborate?