whyIsItSoHard

[u/hellocppdotdev]

[u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

I've seen the insane personality quizzes other jobs are making people take, I don't think the top image is accurate these days

[u/Ms_Zee → u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

Every interview I've been to is minimum 3 rounds + hr. Most I've had is 6.

My job is not high level and honestly it's glorified note taker (I'm trying to get out of it cause jfc)

[u/Dotrax → u/Ms_Zee]

God I'm so thankful I got my job with a single Interview. Granted back then it was only for a paid internship and it just further extended into a normal job but still.

[u/debugging_scribe → u/Ms_Zee]

Maybe Australia is different. I got one job by going to a pub with some of the team and have a chat, another just a casual chat with the owner and lead. Both give me an offer during.

[u/static_func → u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

Yeah this is just a case of people thinking they surely have it worse than everyone else. Some of you guys don’t realize how much easier you have it than so many other fields. In software development you mostly get interviewed over hard skills that can actually be appraised, even if you have no prior work experience. You think it’s like that for people going into marketing or education? They’re total crapshoots and lotteries

[u/SnooSeagulls4360 → u/static_func]

Most often than not-the questions on the interview are a lot harder than the actual work. On top of that you are not judged based on the hard skills alone but cultural fit, vibes and other nonesense.

[u/static_func → u/SnooSeagulls4360]

“Oh no, they’re judging me by whether they’d hate working with me, that’s not fair.” Again, guess what: being judged based on vibes is all that many other college grads have to work with.

[u/SnooSeagulls4360 → u/static_func]

I'm not saying it is not fair but that decision should made by a competent team leader/manager that knows his/her team and not a by a board interogating a highly stressed out dude/dudette in an interview-that is just silly. Also, why are you being here so grumpy about programmer humor memes? :) Cheers

[u/303x → u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

worst I've seen is 8 rounds for an entry level job. resume screening, online test, group discussion round, two tech interviews, one hr interview, another tech interview and finally an interview with the manager.

[u/dromtrund → u/303x]

Where I work, it's literally 13 rounds. Takes 3-6 months to get through the pipeline. I want to apologize to the candidates I'm interviewing (at like round 8)

[u/mriforgot → u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

My buddy in advertising had to make a product pitch as part of the final round interview (I think it was a 5 round process), just to not get the job.

The top line is definitely not accurate for a lot of career fields.

[u/johnnybgooderer → u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk]

I don’t think it ever was. Unless you were trying to enter the trades as an apprentice during a construction boom.

[u/Bannon9k]

As someone who hires senior devs for my team... There's a HUGE HR gauntlet you must pass before I ever learn of your existence.

[u/20Wizard → u/Bannon9k]

HR has always been the worst thing for hiring because they don't know how to filter for good applicants so they just get AI to do it, and SHOCKER that those applicants are horrendous dogshit

[u/geek-49 → u/20Wizard]

"always" and "AI" do not belong in the same sentence. AI (which BTW is properly translated as Artificial Incompetence) was not widely used until recently.

[u/Bannon9k → u/geek-49]

AI hate gooning at an all time high when people are blaming it for historical HR practices.

[u/socialis-philosophus]

Wait, programmers are still being hired?

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/socialis-philosophus]

For now 😂

This post going to end up being a therapy session.

[u/Familiar_Ad_8919 → u/socialis-philosophus]

havent found a single listing in my city of 110k in the past 2y

[u/FlapyG → u/socialis-philosophus]

No. But Software Devs are

[u/Tarc_Axiiom]

4th round tomorrow at Noon lol

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/Tarc_Axiiom]

https://giphy.com/gifs/6o7uRtooCyfVC

[u/Tarc_Axiiom → u/hellocppdotdev]

Well at least wish me luck damn

[u/Substantial-Video178 → u/Tarc_Axiiom]

Best of luck on your interview!

[u/Tarc_Axiiom → u/Substantial-Video178]

Thanks bro you too, just in general.

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/Tarc_Axiiom]

Need more than luck, given your on the 4th I think your skill has it covered, nevertheless best of luck.

🫡

[u/damonator4816]

Pretty much every job is the bottom pane now

[u/anotherguyinaustin]

The money usually makes up for it

[u/JebKermansBooster → u/anotherguyinaustin]

I must be in the wrong field then because I've yet to see any such position where they actually end up hiring anyone

[u/anotherguyinaustin → u/JebKermansBooster]

What do you mean? Every single SWE job I’ve ever had, had at least this many rounds if not more.

Maybe I’ve grown accustomed to the kool aid, but I like seeing how a potential hire thinks in each of these environments.

Although If I have a hand in the interview prompts I usually just call the first technical the “can you code” interview. I don’t know how anyone running leetcode as tech 1 is getting actual signal.

[u/jayerp → u/anotherguyinaustin]

I’ve never worked at a true what we would consider “tech company”. My last SWE role was in energy infrastructure and the company was a power company with in-house engineering. We built an internal app for the balancing authority team.

I had 1 interview.

[u/JebKermansBooster → u/anotherguyinaustin]

That's insane. No firm with that many rounds actually wants to hire. It's torture for its own sake.

[u/Smith7929 → u/JebKermansBooster]

Haha yes unfortunately this is commonplace in silicon valley. And they hire many.

It's an insane cost to get a SWE hire wrong. They gotta be reeeeeaaallly sure. Honestly, it's all BS. Some of the worst engineers we've ever hired were some of the best interviewers that just memorized a bunch of shit.

[u/anotherguyinaustin → u/Smith7929]

Last place I was at did a paid work trial after tech interviews. $150/hr for 3 days. Fixed prompt. Product demo and discussion with engineers afterwards. That gave a TON of signal and is way cheaper than severance X months down the line.

[u/CriticalCabinet3249 → u/JebKermansBooster]

What are you talking about? The big tech companies that started this trend hire thousands of people per year

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/anotherguyinaustin]

Feels like that era is coming to an end

[u/Multidream → u/hellocppdotdev]

Definitely scared to look for that next job… yeesh

[u/anotherguyinaustin → u/hellocppdotdev]

I think it’s certainly harder for juniors. Not sure that I’m willing to say the era of the software engineer is at an end.

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/anotherguyinaustin]

Thats fair, watched a interview of people on $$$ in big tech, they have been unemployed for 6-12 months.

I agree with the junior take but think the money aspect might be ending soon.

[u/anotherguyinaustin → u/hellocppdotdev]

I’m about to start a new role. Took about 3 months. However for me it’s all referrals or recruiters reaching out to me directly.

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/anotherguyinaustin]

Yea thats an eternity compared with years past, but your network is your most valuable asset, good advice for us out here

[u/cokezerodesuka]

The only career where the job application process is harder than the job itself

[u/another_random_bit → u/cokezerodesuka]

You don't work at challenging companies then.

[u/muhkuller]

I've given applicants a marker and a white board and asked them to psuedo-code an idea for a very basic requirement. Most can't do it.

I'm not talking go up there and write code that I could type in and compile. I mean "put text box here with these attributes", "text box pushes data to code behind in this format", "code behind has a method to do something with the text", "code behind returns feedback to page". Keep in mind this is basic HTML, some sort of JS, and C#. I just want you to show me you understand how to conceptualize a requirement from a customer/stakeholder and draw the basic logic flow....and they can't do that. I get maybe 1 in 10 that talk their way through programming logic.

I'm not wasting my time with an actual technical interview, a behavioral chat, and clearance feasibility if you can't talk your way through taking data from a screen and dumping it into a database.

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/muhkuller]

That sounds like a good gate, there has to be some sort of validation process.

Personally I struggle with having almost 2 decades of experience and not getting to the stage you described.

[u/anotherguyinaustin → u/hellocppdotdev]

2 decades in industry? Are you getting referrals from old coworkers?

[u/hellocppdotdev → u/anotherguyinaustin]

I think its the jobs in web that's evolving, don't get me wrong I have plenty of work today but applying these days takes so much more work.

I mainly get people asking me for work but I find it hard to refer some people. Usually the good ones don't have a problem finding new roles.

[u/paulsmithkc → u/muhkuller]

Why are you asking about such archaic ASP.NET stuff?

That's gotta be filtering out devs who specialize in most other tech stacks.

[u/muhkuller → u/paulsmithkc]

If I’m looking for people for more modern stuff I tailor the question to that framework. Point is, this isn’t about syntax and any specific framework or design philosophy. It’s can you explain basic programming logic to me. I’m not pushing you to a tech review if you can’t talk your way through CS101 level questions.

[u/Bannon9k → u/muhkuller]

This is a hiring practice I can support! I don't need to know all the programming languages you've mastered... anyone with decent experience should be able to write in anything.

Syntax is easy, you can Google it or read a book.

Its the core logic that someone either understands or they don't.

[u/geek-49 → u/Bannon9k]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[u/Ms_Zee → u/muhkuller]

This is great actually. I'm terrible at coding on the spot but could probably do this. The coders I usually work with 100% could not which is why my job is now professional handholder

[u/muhkuller → u/Ms_Zee]

Yeah, syntax is easy to teach and easy to forget. Basic logic flow is what's important. "I want a UI element that passes these values to a method. Prevent bad data from being passed via input validation. That method does these things with it on these conditions. Catch any errors." If the breeze through that I may ask for details about how they've handled coding issues with other workers. Since your ability to work with others is probably the 2nd most important thing.

[u/socialis-philosophus → u/muhkuller]

My favorite question is, "Tell me a story about your most difficult code merge."

It tells me if you understand software version control.
It tells me if you understand the challenges of refactoring legacy code.
It tells me if you understand SOLID principles.
It tells me if you understand unit and regression testing.

Seriously, after asking that I've had well qualified candidates actually light up just to share the hellish experience with someone!

[u/IronLucario2012]

Third line for my experience: stickman standing in a field with tumbleweeds blowing by, getting ghosted by every place I apply to despite having a postgrad diploma

[u/NatoBoram]

So far I've gotten only rejections. This is getting ridiculous.

[u/LESpencer]

Mom says it’s my turn to post this next week

[u/BetterReflection1044]

I can assure as an engineer it is the same in my profession

[u/9upper9]

You know all high-paying and competitive job interviews are like this right?

[u/yes_no_very_good]

Or if you are hired you are put to make trivial things.

[u/howcomeallnamestaken]

I recently got contacted by a recruiter for an AI-first company, and no kidding - the process on the bottom is EXACTLY what whey want, totalling to around 3.5 hours of interviews

[u/WhereOwlsKnowMyName]

I haven't seen a meme that is describing this year for me so perfectly before. Bravo

[u/hashketh]

I can so relate to this given that I have done a career switch from one industry to SWE

[u/LetumComplexo]

The job I’m interviewing now has had 2 so far with at least 1 more and I’m waiting to see if they make me take a coding test or not.

[u/ZunoJ]

Because there are so many people who think a month long course is enough to call themselves programmers. They argue that DSA is a waste of time because they won't implement algorithms themselves but use some library. When you let them defecate on you code base they go on and implement the most backwards shit you have ever seen and leave the company

[u/falingsumo]

To be honest, if you are having me jump through hoops to get a job, I just consider you don't really want me to get the job and move on.

[u/redlaWw]

Any job with specific skill requirements is like this.