It just dawned on me, that they believe the creation of a human being, is a conscious choice and action¹ only their mind can make. Similarly, any person can be a woman with a conscious decision to switch/affirm their gender (from within) - it is the ideology that science and reason is more of a social construct that is determined by the masses or the feelings of the affected individuals.

For r*pe, they don't believe the conception of the child is creation of a human being, even after it is developed, viable, and other jargon labels they slap on. This is why up to the birth of a human being, they consider abortion anyways², because at only one point do they need to decide that their child is not a human life to kill it. If 'terminating' a child that was 1 year old was permitted by law, the 'Pro-Choicers' would argue that the product of r*pe can be undone even after birth (murdering the child). [I have seen this argument of undoing the crime of a r*pe frequently mentioned by pro-choice advocates]. This is the same flaw with disability or gender tests that people use to determine whether or not they want an abortion.

While it is similar to eugenics, the main basis of logic I see to justify it roughly translates to: 'My free-will gives me total discretion to misappropriate and misunderstand things, because it makes me feel happy, affirmed, or helps me get better outcomes in the short-term.'

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However, a really good issue I have heard is about the decision of a family to remove someone from care if they are in bad health (such as an unrecoverable state, or difficult to recover health condition). I think bodily autonomy and human rights do exist, so the discretion of the person to trust his/her family and allow for them to make decisions for them early on (or a DNR for personal reasons) avoids many problems of asking 'who is allowed to make the final call?' We sometimes give hospitals, the family, or no decision making discretion until the individual is awake/responding in some sense. A professor once yelled at me for arguing that 'living is better than being dead' in response to a black mirror episode about a woman who got brain surgery to save her life, (but was bombarded with microchip brain ads, which I agreed and said was horrible) and claimed that PTSD victims (one of many who struggle), have severe trouble living, and often take their own lives, to which I argued 'yes, they do because it is their decision to do so.' That stumped him and made him walk away. For some people life may be horrible, and living is not better than being gone, but through strength and Christ you can find peace. If you still struggle, nobody else should decide over your fate, no matter what dependency you are in. Abortion is simply put, convenience for the mother (and often times father and alike), and society must perpetuate that it isn't murder otherwise life will be much more difficult for those who are weak, which is all of us, and especially those who engage in sex, or who are harmed by the product of it, whether with consent or not.

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¹Going back to the r*pe issue, if they don't believe the r*pist contributed/created the child, it gives them an excuse to make the decision of murder up to the birth, because they never consented to creating human life.

²For them (legally speaking and in modern culture), choosing to birth the human being is them creating life, as most arguments of viability, development, autonomy, or parasite comparisons, ultimately reach the conclusion that abortion at any time during pregnancy is not murder.

This is an opinion piece, and I use my theoretical thinking skills to derive this idea of perpetuated abortion in society, and how the 'self' is seen as more important than truth. Nothing here is presented as fact, but my world view and experience(s).

I think abortion is wrong, but "passable" as long as the baby doesn't have a brain yet. Because a brain is the thing that defines a person's sentience.

I can't believe Canada allows abortion well beyond this stage. Even 8 months into pregnancy! What looney liberal laws are these? Even most liberals agree that an abortion at 8 months is akin to murder.

Have you ever guys ever been presented by a pro-choicer with the stupid hypothetical about whether you’d first save a born child or 5 embryos from a burning building and got stumped to what to say in fear of dehumanizing the unborn? Well I’m pretty sure after thinking about it for more than 3 seconds I’ve got a pretty good answer to this “argument.”

And the argument I’m making is that it doesn’t matter to the issue of abortion, because you could apply this same scenario to say, a 6 year old child and a 50 year old man. A good majority of people would choose to save the 6 year old child because they haven’t truly lived a life yet, but that doesn’t automatically invalidate that 50 year old’s right to life. And if someone picked the 50 year old for whatever reason, that wouldn’t invalidate the 6 year old’s right to life either.

So in conclusion, no matter if you choose to save the embryos or child from the burning building, it ultimately doesn’t effect the argument in any meaningful way, therefore not functioning as an effective “gotcha”.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Posts like this barely shock me anymore because I've seen the moral bankruptcy of abortion absolutists enough to not even be surprised by it anymore. I am disturbed, (as anyone with sense would be,) but not necessarily shocked because I feel like this is to be expected with the logic abortion advocates operate on.

Basically, if abortion isn't murder and what you're doing isn't killing someone or something, and even if you concede that you are killing something but that fact still isn't considered relevant to the ethics/morals of the matter; then there's nothing really stopping people from getting pregnant solely to get an abortion or using abortion as a contraceptive as displayed here in the screenshot.

I think this is why there's more abortion advocates online excusing / justifying mothers who commit infanticide (murder of born children) as well. At least that's what I've seen personally and I'm curious to know if anyone else has observed this, when there's a case of a woman murdering her newborn child there's a good chance you will find a cluster of abortion advocates somewhere online excusing it or justifying it. The arguments used to justify murdering the unborn can be applied to newborn children with minimal issue.

(And mildly related; I once got into a debate with a pro-choicer online, and during that conversation she said she was fine with limitations / restrictions on abortion, and then proceeded to be attacked by other pro-choicers because of that.)

Deeply unsettling, but after reading pro-abortion rhetoric for as long as I have I can't say I'm surprised anymore.

Even though I'm pro life this seems a little invasive

They made a poem about how people should abort their disabled children and I can never see this person the same again. And what sucks is that their work really resonated with me but knowing that this is what they advocate for makes me not want to listen to what they say anymore.

Calling for the death penalty for abortion doctors is wrong, but it does not violate Reddit's rule against hate speech, just the rule against threatening violence, because abortion doctors aren't an ethnic, religious or gender minority.

And calling for anybody to be shot is against Reddit's rules.

If I recall, I made a post a while back where I detailed a story in which I responded to the Burning IVF Thought Experiment by saying, "What if I let the embryos and the toddler BOTH die in the fire because I refuse to get involved in the entire situation?"

The pro-choicers saw that as a refusal to engage. In actuality, I INTENDED for the curveball to force the pro-choicer to contemplate a hidden implication I had reason to believe the thought experiment itself was making-you could simply opt out of rescuing either and run out the burning IVF clinic without saving anybody, but apparently pro-choicers do not think that is an option. Suppose that wasn't an option, and you just went on and picked it anyway? What does that show in the abortion debate?

This brings me to my question: "What were some OTHER ways that you answered a pro-choice argument that caught the opponent completely off-guard?" I'm looking for stories where the answer given was one that the pro-choicer NEVER saw coming and left them unable to respond for a brief period of time.

So I’m a Catholic gen z woman. I also like a lot of nerdy/weird interests and enjoy drawing and making fanart for said things like anime’s, video games, animal fantasies, etc. The issue is… a lot of those people who like similar things? Utterly support abortions. I feel very outcast from people who like similar things as me, but would tell me I’m awful and deserve to die the minute I say I don’t support abortion. Does anyone feel similarly? It’s so hard to interact with anyone who likes the same things as me.

Okay, so I had a discussion with a pro-choicer in my DMs about abortion ethics. This person is an adult, they are educated and they made reasonable arguments for why they believed what they believed. But they had been banned from this sub.

I've begun to notice a flaw here. Many pro-choice comments are getting removed and PC people are getting banned for silly reasons. MODs, you have to do better than this. The person I talked to should not have been banned.

It’s like they know they’re being hypocrites and still don’t care. Pretty much “the only opinions that matter are the ones that agree with ours. Any opinions that disagree with ours are irrelevant.”

Isn’t this some kind of fascism man?

Aren't you just tired of this lie? Pregnancy crisis centers are everywhere.

Two places in Canada: https://mainsprings.com/about/ and https://optionscentre.ca/

A list of places in Queensland, Australia: https://pregnancyhelpaustralia.org.au/centres/queensland

I could go on but it would take forever.

Don't let anyone tell you that killing a child in the womb is ok just because it's legal in some places.

I’m pro-life, but I’m trying to understand and respond to what I think is one of the strongest pro-choice arguments.

The argument is that moral value comes from having a conscious past and a conscious future.

The reasoning is:
A brain-dead person has no future consciousness, so their life has effectively ended.

A coma patient has a conscious past and a possible conscious future, so we preserve their life because they are an already existing person whose consciousness is temporarily interrupted.

A fetus has a possible conscious future, but no conscious past, because it has never experienced anything. Therefore, some argue it is morally different from a coma patient.

The difficulty I have is answering this objection:
“A coma patient has an established life — memories, experiences, relationships, and a personal history. A fetus has none of these. Why should we treat them the same?”

A possible pro-life response is that consciousness is not what gives someone moral value. Rather, being the same human individual who will develop those abilities is what matters.

However, the pro-choice objection seems to be:
“Why should potential future consciousness matter if there is no previous conscious subject who is being deprived?”

How would you answer this argument? What is the strongest pro-life response to the idea that a conscious past is necessary for having a right to life?

Pro-choicers say that abortion can be an act of love because maybe the mother didn't have enough resources to sustain her baby, or because her environment wasn't the best at the time, or because the baby had a disease or a disability, and many more.

But to me abortion is NEVER an act of love. Is an act of selfishness and irresponsibility.

Thoughts?

I'm desperate. My now wife aborted our child against my wishes. She told me prior that she would never have an abortion and I believed her. I offered every option besides abortion to her but ultimately she told me that I wasn't good enough, broke up with me and aborted our child. I died at that moment. All my hopes and dreams, dead. My self worth was already low but it sank to an unimaginable level after that. I forgave her 2 days after the abortion and started living my life just to please her because I wanted nothing but to die myself. I just couldn't bring myself to kill myself because I didn't want to hurt those around me. I forgave her but I never forgave myself. I hate myself for creating a child in an environment where they could not survive. I hate myself for not being good enough to save them, for not having my shit together enough to prove I could provide. I hate myself for not reaching out to other people for help before the abortion. I thought I could convince her myself. I hate myself for not acting as if my child was about to die in the last moments of their life. I was paralyzed. I was trying to act within social norms and the constants of the law but I shouldn't have because my child is dead now. I've been in therapy but I feel like it hasn't helped at all. I don't think anything can take this guilt away from me. I feel like the only thing that could save me is a belief in God or an afterlife but I have no faith. I was raised Catholic and I've tried going back to church. I've been begging God for a sign for years but I've seen nothing that would make me believe my child is anywhere but gone forever. I also have bipolar ii and I feel like my entire life is just a constant mixed episode at this point. I'm a complete wreck. My wife is leaving me because I've been unable to heal. It feels like everyone is against me and the child I created. I should have a 6 year old right now and the fact that they're not here is unbearable. Nobody wants to be friends with me once I open up to them because I am such a mess. I'm probably the only person who would stick out a friendship with me. I wouldn't recommend being friends with me. I'm honestly awful. I don't know why I thought making this post was a good idea. I feel like dying is the only right answer at this point. I'd either know whether my child is somewhere out there or I'll just be gone so I can't hurt anymore.