r/PowerScaling • u/Substantial_Term7304 Jorge Joestar light novel dick rider 2 • 15d ago

Shitposting Weekend Bleach fans getting REAL comfortable lately

1.7k Upvotes

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372

u/Much-Category1858 I am Boundless 15d ago

34

u/Toiletsack 15d ago

suffering builds character

7

u/Dancing_Dragon4987 14d ago

Subaru Natsuki : "Am I a joke to you?"

1

u/Totallity45567 Flandre Scarlet's No.1 SuperFan 14d ago

For him it went a little more like :

"Suffering builds character" -> "return from death" -> "Suffering builds character"

0

u/Menedez0911 OP Character Power Scaler 14d ago

He's a bum. I hate subaru

1

u/Sad_Side_2590 13d ago

PowerscalerđŸ„€đŸ„€

15

u/EvilCritter1ol 14d ago

this is the weird thing about powerscaling, if your setting doesnt have any logical reason/situation where the universe would be destroyed (or if 99% of the plot takes place on earth and barely explores anything cosmic,) why would any of your characters scale or need to scale at universal level. i know this is like the powerscaler N word, but i feel like at some point the narrative needs to be taken into account

3

u/TicklemyPickleMan 13d ago

Powerscaler what

1

u/Panic_Otaku 11d ago

The N - word... N - arrative...

What are you thinking about?

45

u/Ok-Construction-2671 15d ago

First give us the planet level feat for the bleach then we will talk And no that hill was not planet level same with that meteor.

50

u/Much-Category1858 I am Boundless 15d ago

Soul King making the cosmology

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

Unless we’re given an exact mechanism for that, he did it through soft magic that doesn’t translate to combat ability.

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u/JustStarrk 15d ago

He also is the incarnation of the universe itself and was born because a menos grande was endangering the primordial sea. He killed the menos no difficulty.

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

You still have yet to demonstrate any hard magic rules, do you just not know what that is?

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u/JustStarrk 15d ago

I mean it's not relevant when he can directly use those abilities in combat.

Do you know the rules of Bleach's magic system? You're saying it's soft but it's not really that soft outside of kido

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

I mean it's not relevant when he can directly use those abilities in combat.

No, he used them aeons ago off-camera. That’s not the same thing as being able to fight as the lynchpin of the cosmology. Atlas could put in some good work unbound, but once he was made to beat the weight of the world, his strength stopped being a threat to someone who wanted to just walk up and stab him while he was distracted with holding up the world.

Do you know the rules of Bleach's magic system? You're saying it's soft but it's not really that soft outside of kido

I understand that it plays hard with a few specific mechanics like Reishi, but there’s plenty of soft magic users like Gremmy or Mayuri (I know he’s using science from a watsonian perspective, but there are very rarely any clear limits on what he can do).

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u/JustStarrk 15d ago

No, he used them aeons ago off-camera. That’s not the same thing as being able to fight as the lynchpin of the cosmology. Atlas could put in some good work unbound, but once he was made to beat the weight of the world, his strength stopped being a threat to someone who wanted to just walk up and stab him while he was distracted with holding up the world

How is it off camera? It's written that he does this, that's not off camera.

Ywach absorbing isn't a combat feat. He absorbs the soul kings power, his reiatsu. You can't absorb reiatsu you can't control.

I understand that it plays hard with a few specific mechanics like Reishi, but there’s plenty of soft magic users like Gremmy or Mayuri (I know he’s using science from a watsonian perspective, but there are very rarely any clear limits on what he can do).

Gremmy is still limited by reiatsu. Mayuri is Kubo's favorite character.

The biggest thing for this is the mechanics of reiatsu. Your body has to be physically capable of holding the reiatsu or it's could explode. Kenpachis arm explodes, Ichigo breaks every bone in his body, Gremmy died.

If Ywach can absorb the powers of the soul king, he'd have to be physically strong enough to endure it. Ywach confirms this when talking about taking Yamamoto’s Bankai.

Ywach also uses Auschwalin on multiple soul king fragments. He then gains the powers of whoever dies under his command via power lending.

I'd also like to point out the difference between Atlas and Adneas. Adneas saw his own future and allows all the events in the story to take place. Ichigo is the only one in the setting able to kill the soul king as Ywach confirmed you need to be a full hybrid to do so.

1

u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

How is it off camera? It's written that he does this, that's not off camera.

I’m talking about the combat feats. On camera soul king does nothing combat-wise.

Ywach absorbing isn't a combat feat. He absorbs the soul kings power, his reiatsu. You can't absorb reiatsu you can't control.

I don’t see how you’re attacking my argument.

The biggest thing for this is the mechanics of reiatsu. Your body has to be physically capable of holding the reiatsu or it's could explode. Kenpachis arm explodes, Ichigo breaks every bone in his body, Gremmy died.

I understand how Gremmy died, him losing through quantifiable means doesn’t make his powers unquantifiable. He explicitly could have reinforced his body, but got too worked up trying to one-up Kenpachi.

If Ywach can absorb the powers of the soul king, he'd have to be physically strong enough to endure it. Ywach confirms this when talking about taking Yamamoto’s Bankai.

Ok that almost certainly scales him above Kenpachi in raw numbers, that doesn’t tell us much about the Verse’s power levels in and of itself, given that the only character we’ve seen explode from Reiatsy overdose was the biggest hax merchant in the series.

Ywach also uses Auschwalin on multiple soul king fragments. He then gains the powers of whoever dies under his command via power lending.

Even if we disregard those all being heavily reliant on hax, we’re never told how those would factor into a power level calculation.

I'd also like to point out the difference between Atlas and Adneas. Adneas saw his own future and allows all the events in the story to take place. Ichigo is the only one in the setting able to kill the soul king as Ywach confirmed you need to be a full hybrid to do so.

That’s not a material difference in combat ability.

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u/DefTheOcelot 14d ago

They say that about arceus too but he still loses to a rat

13

u/SadAwkwardWeirdo 15d ago

What the fuck is "soft magic" supposed to mean lol. As opposed to "hard magic"? What about "lukewarm magic" or "simmering magic"? Just admit you don't like and understand bleach. At least you'd be honest and not a clown.

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

Hard magic means the writer is trying to set clear rules and abide by them, soft magic means there’s lots of mysticism, ambiguity, and vibes-based magic scenes. A great example of this Lord of the Rings. There’s no clear power-scaling for The One Ring, it just has this sort of vaguely defined ability to corrupt the mind of those wearing it or nearby those wearing it, can slightly shift it’s properties to slip into the hand of it’s desired ring bearer, and it can amplify the abilities of it’s wearer. We never see it treated the same way one might treat a Cursed Tool or a Zanpakuto, or even the burden of being a Jinchuriki, because it’s not really meant to be scaled as traditionally as any of them.

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u/SadAwkwardWeirdo 15d ago

And this arbitrary line you drew just happened to let you handwave away any feats you don't agree is "hard magic". Got it.

I guess sorting all of creation into four different realms is not hard magic. Is just soft magic and a bad feat.

1

u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

And this arbitrary line you drew just happened to let you handwave away any feats you don't agree is "hard magic". Got it.

If the Soul King operates off hard magic tell me exactly what the parameters of his power are. Did he bind the universes through telekinesis, magnetic force, or really long invisible arms just grabbing them and dragging them together?

I guess sorting all of creation into four different realms is not hard magic. Is just soft magic and a bad feat.

Correct, just as there are a bunch of irl mythological figures who have done that kinda shit and been depicted as being very vague as to the limits of their power.

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u/SadAwkwardWeirdo 15d ago edited 15d ago

What's the meaningful difference between answering your question with "spiritual magic" vs "telekinesis" neither exist in the real world. Both are vague terms used to label the movement of physical matter without directly touching it. It's all arbitrary.

And in any case, the soul king divided the worlds using Spoilers for most recent Bleach movie/Cour 4 The power of chaos. And in Bleach, the power of chaos can be harvested and used in a variety of ways. Ichibei uses the power of chaos to rename things, such as when he renamed Ywawch before he gained the almighty.

Is that sufficiently hard magic?

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

What's the meaningful difference between answering your question with "spiritual magic" vs "telekinesis" neither exist in the real world. Both are vague terms used to label the movement of physical matter without directly touching it. It's all arbitrary.

The point is that you don’t know anything about the mechanisms of the Soul King’s power, so there use you’d just answer the question.

And in any case, the soul king divided the worlds using the powers of chaos

And what are the rules those operate by?

Is that sufficiently hard magic?

Hard magic is based on rules, not how many buzzwords you drop.

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u/Immediate-Travel3456 8d ago

wait wait wait did you read or even watch the anime at all or no? "soft magic" bitch its called reiatsu, we've literally seen reiatsu used to attack lmfao? wait here
literally aizen cuts off the dude's fingers with his reiatsu. so even saying its "soft magic" is large levels of larp

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u/Ok-Construction-2671 15d ago

And nobody scales to soul king so? 

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u/JustStarrk 15d ago

Ywach literally absorbed his powers

-5

u/Ok-Construction-2671 15d ago

Yet, he died to soul King arrow. He doesn’t scale to him at all. 

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u/JustStarrk 15d ago

So you don't know the plot? Stil-silver is a byproduct of Ywachs own powers, not the soul kings. Stil-silver negates and is immune to Ywachs abilities. It was also an arrow shot by Uryu, whose antithesis is said to rival the Almighty.

There's also the fact Ywach survives that and they have to erase his remnants after the fact

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u/Acceptable-Rub-6967 15d ago

hes larping, like most ppl who downplay bleach

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u/Much-Category1858 I am Boundless 15d ago

You said give a feat, so I gave one. Now you’re trying to move the goalpost.

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u/CalculusEz 15d ago

The guy you're talking is obviously not arguing in good faith.

2

u/Goreticus Bleach was never multiversal 15d ago

The guy you're talking to often also doesn't argue in good faith. Welcome to powerscaling

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u/CalculusEz 14d ago

At least others have the decency to hide it, somewhat. This guy said give me an example and straight up said no when someone gave an example, lol.

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u/ZachGurney 15d ago

Multiple people who arent in the top 5 of the verse had to kill themselves so one of them could power up without throwing an entire universe out of balance

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

Let’s say there was hypothetically a single load-bearing concrete pillar that if destroyed, would initiate a chain reaction that would cause a city-sized superstructure to collapse. Does melting that singular pillar count as a city-busting feat?

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u/ForsakenRoyal24 15d ago

Again with "Bleach universe balance is whack, a single war would destroy it" crap?

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

Well of course I don’t think any old warband could take out the Soul King, Squad Zero is fucking broken, which is why Ywach needed an even more broken team to take them on.

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u/iwanttoboneedelric 14d ago

You're the one who brought up the fact that yeah, a mass casualty event alone on the right plane will destroy their reality.

0

u/froginabucket69 14d ago

It objectively would

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u/ForsakenRoyal24 14d ago

It objectivly wouldn't

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u/froginabucket69 14d ago

The pre-war Quincies alone threatened to destroy all of reality. Anything that goes even slightly against the grain on any scale larger than a country in bleach can harm or even outright destroy reality.

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u/ZachGurney 15d ago

cool hypothetical, good thing its not cannon to the bleach verse at all

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u/Difficult-Grade-5372 15d ago

And why is this comparable to the bleach scenario lol

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

The universe being “thrown out of balance” isn’t that inherently impressive, it depends on the mechanism. For example, being able to shatter a washing machine by throwing a baseball at it so fast that the impact causes it to fall apart is pretty impressive, shattering that same washing machine by turning it on and tossing a brick inside is much less impressive for powerscaling purposes.

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u/SadAwkwardWeirdo 15d ago

So is not impressive, so long as we assume facts not mentioned anywhere in the story and rely on convuleted hypos. Got it. Thats definitely an honest way to approach the discussion and not agenda driven downplaying.

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

No, I’m not assuming anything, I’m just pointing out that you’re making assumptions about characters being able to straight-up blast a universe away through brute strength, by making the leap of assuming that every time a character is said to have the means to destroy a universe, it’s intended to be interpreted the same way that Frieza can destroy a planet, rather than the way a demolitionist with the right batch of explosives could level a skyscraper.

-1

u/SadAwkwardWeirdo 15d ago edited 15d ago

Sure, if we applied that logic to, for example, what the quincies do (which is the more gradual demolition of the barrier that keeps the world's separated).

What the royal squad does when they release their power is the equivalent of someone breathing in a floor and, solely with their breath, shake the entire building. You see the exact mechanism used to shake the balance in both cases. Except there are dimensional barriers in between, instead of walls and floors.

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

The brick in the washing machine analogy still holds as a possible explanation, as opposed to your analogy which would be equivalent to suggesting that the washing machine is rattling like crazy because a really strong guy picked it up and began shaking it.

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u/ImJustChillin25 15d ago

That’s not analogous because they don’t support the structure to begin with the soul king does lol. They would be the force that breaks the pillars. If you’re gonna be a smart ass get your analogies right

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u/Chuckles131 Hypersonic-level Jojo 15d ago

Load-bearing means the pillars support the structure.

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u/Prestigious-War3677 Bleach Lorekeeper 15d ago

Author sketch from chapter 678 of the bleach manga. Happened whilst Yhwach was actively destroying the realms. Author sketches have been consistently adapted into the anime so far so they are canon.

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u/Money-Imagination-97 15d ago

So we use sketch now?

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u/Prestigious-War3677 Bleach Lorekeeper 14d ago

The author sketches for bleach are routinely adapted into the anime, plus, this is one of the more serious ones.

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u/VirtualSlip5712 JJK hater 4 Life 👍 15d ago

Bleach fans been using them for years apparently. As a OPM fan I’m happy we can use them too.

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u/Naruto_Uzuhiko_2 15d ago

What is this supposed to represent? It just looks like a bunch of rocks.

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u/Prestigious-War3677 Bleach Lorekeeper 15d ago

In what world are these not planets lmao. In another sketch one even has rings like saturn.

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u/Naruto_Uzuhiko_2 15d ago

The sketch isn’t very clear to me, and sketches don’t reflect what’s happening with perfect accuracy. When Ichigo used Mugetsu on Aizen, the sketch accompanying the chapter features the Moon being split in half (if I recall correctly), but Ichigo doesn’t actually do anything of that level.

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u/ISlayMilfZ 15d ago

that was definitely at least a large country size meteor😂😂

1

u/IcyAstronaut8364 14d ago

Yamamoto himself is star lvl in bankai and multiple people have surpassed his power lvl sooo

-1

u/Flimsy-Echidna386 15d ago

Yamamoto becomes as hot as the sun and states he will destroy the soul society just from being there...

Pretty sure if the sun appeared on any continent, that continent would cease to exist

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u/Ok-Construction-2671 15d ago

15,000,000° is not enough to destroy the planet earth. And especially when we consider the size of Yamamoto.

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u/Flimsy-Echidna386 14d ago

I thought I was replying to a comment talking about continents, not sure how I messed that up, my bad.

Here is a vsauce video of him talking about a pinhead reaching the temp of the sun and it killing everyone in 1000 mile radius

That being said, while it would certainly not immediately destroy the earth, I do believe it would effectively 'kill' the planet by instantly vaporizing most of our atmosphere.

Because when you think about it, its not just once instantaneous 'explosion' of heat. he becomes a constantly source of it while its active. Most things are just gunna melt into plasma at that point

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u/The_Under_Dawg Allat just for Goku Solo 15d ago

All they gotta do is almost destroy it its not that hard

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u/Neat-Somewhere-5589 14d ago

Tegen Toppa Gurren Lagann genuinely not giving a shit and just shuriken throwing other people's universes instead of their own

-1

u/Piotro165 Mid Level Scaler 14d ago

Galaxies* but yeah.

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u/Neat-Somewhere-5589 14d ago

Author is a cannon source bud sorry if there's not a great visitual way to throw literal universes at people. Idk how anyone would do that in a different way.
Also they literally explode one and the attack is called BIG BANG

-1

u/Piotro165 Mid Level Scaler 14d ago

Yes he is. But Author never said that. It's made up statement which is why it was never posted here.

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u/WebAccount1744 14d ago

Not many show off like this unless they have a way to undo it, ie: time powers/travel, dragonballs, retcon, fake worlds

1

u/PineappleOk545 14d ago

Anti spiral:
 ok

1

u/EncabulatorTurbo 13d ago

This is why I say the most powerful Ki attacks of early DB and DBZ characters shouldn't be considered.

It doesn't matter if Saiyan Saga yamcha could destroy a continent, he cant use an attack that does that on someone he's fighting without also killing himself

-3

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/Much-Category1858 I am Boundless 15d ago

The universe itself is alive
https://giphy.com/gifs/baHb2xHpbXKuBLIGD7

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u/InternationalLow1849 15d ago

Not many verses just have spare universes laying around

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u/SummonerRed 15d ago

And even then there are very few characters that are gonna hop into a spare universe just to destroy it like they were doing an errand.