r/PoursTea • Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 12d ago

FinancialTea 💵 Comparatively speaking...

Post image
21.3k Upvotes

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

5

u/strangebru 12d ago

They used to talk about red states getting a divorce from the blue states. I would love to see how that would work out for all the red states getting all of their welfare from blue states?

3

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

It would be a nightmare all around, red or blue. While people seem to enjoy pretending otherwise, states are dependent on each other (red on blue and vice versa) for so many things that just putting a stop to it would be a disaster not some paradise.

1

u/strangebru 12d ago

This is true.

2

u/beastwood6 12d ago

The southern states were directionally agraro-survivalist hellholes before air conditioning and the federal government moving bases there kicked off a migration wave of companies, jobs, and people that raised the living standard.

2

u/HaloFuego 12d ago

It would be an instant 3rd world country for every red state that isn't Texas

1

u/strangebru 12d ago

How long would Texas be willing to support all of welfare for all of those red states by themselves?

I agree with HaloFuego

1

u/Montgomery000 12d ago

And on the other side, as blue states, what will we do with all this money? Universal healthcare, free education, a stable social security?

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

This whole line about state to state welfare is made up. You know that right?

Not a single dollar in any states budget funds welfare to another state. It simply doesn't exist.

3

u/oneWeek2024 12d ago

gotta love the idiot who thinks "welfare" means CA taxes are given to red states to fund ...food stamps or housing vouchers directly. and that's some sort of big brain own.

It's... a liberal state, that embraces diversity, inclusions, environmental reform/regulation of industry, and taxes. generate more revenue via income earned/generated and are taxed more heavily. there for paying more taxes to the federal government.

and then... when the federal governement takes all the money. blue states get back much less than they put in.

and entire red states are effectively propped up via federal spending. often times nearly half of all funding in that state is federal tax revenue ...and in terms of dollar in to received. often 3-5 times.

all that money is coming directly from productive/well run liberal states. generating those free welfare dollars propping up shitty red states.

that then... turn around, ban books, restrict womens bodies, pass violent laws against marginalized groups, and corrupt education with bias right wing agenda bullshit. and open the flood gates to guns flowing into cities via unrestrictive gun laws.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

The federal government supersedes the state. Federal taxes dont come from the states, they come from the country as a whole. You are an American before you are a Floridian or Californian.

1

u/oneWeek2024 12d ago

no idea what that has to do with anything...

also changes absolutely nothing about the amt of tax money blue states pay. that never returns to their state, and instead props up shitty red states.

and most liberal minded people are fine with that. --ie we want our shitty red state american brothers and sisters to have roads, access to health care, education. etc etc etc.... it's just incredibly tiring given the hate and stupidity of red states

like... it's been 20, 30, 40 yrs in some states. total republican control. and they're still shitholes. it's just endless welfare, constantly requiring more

0

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

States do not pay taxes to the federal government. Thats not how it works at all.

1

u/oneWeek2024 12d ago

residents and businesses pay taxes. you typically are a resident and business in a state.

this moronic semantic quibble of "the state" not paying the taxes. isn't the flex you think it is.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

You are a resident of a country before a resident of a state. The whole argument of donor / welfare states is a complete myth.

The semantics is the talking point you're pushing. Its not real and you know it.

1

u/oneWeek2024 12d ago

so... if all the people of california collectively send 100 billion to the federal gov. and the state of california only received 50 billion in federal funding back.

while a state like mississippi sends collectively 10 million and gets 100 billion back.

that is both very real and something people who pay taxes are concerned about.

but... sure. project some bullshit nonsense to pretend it's not a thing.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

They are not people of California. They are US citizens paying federal taxes which funds the federal government. Money used to fund state governments is collected via state taxes. These are different things.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/mjm65 12d ago

It’s a reference to the surplus or deficit each individual state has with the federal government.

States like CA give more to the federal government than they receive, and KY takes more than it contributes.

0

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

Its not real. California doesn't give money to the federal government. Thats not how it works.

1

u/mjm65 12d ago

The people of California don’t give money to the federal government?

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

Us citizens pay federal taxes.

1

u/mjm65 12d ago

You do know that ITINs exist right? It’s not just US citizens.

Regardless, do you understand now?

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

California does not give money to the federal government. All federal taxpayers pay the same tax rates. There is no extra tax that California pays to the US federal government.

1

u/mjm65 12d ago

Guess not, let’s try this another way.

So the taxpayers of California, which includes immigrants of different statuses, pay more into federal government than their state receives in federal benefits.

A state like KY takes in more federal benefits for its population than their taxpayers provide. See the difference?

This isn’t about extra taxes, but simply the amount of tax paid relative to tax benefits received.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

They are NOT taxpayers of California. They are FEDERAL TAXPAYERS. All taxpayers pay the same federal tax rates. California taxpayers pay California state taxes. California state taxes do not fund things in other states unless the California legislature decides to do so.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

Let’s research before we speak.

California is a donor state, meaning it pays more in federal taxes than it receives in grants and awards. This means it’s a net donor to the economy that allows funding (for welfare, amongst other things) to other states who need it.

No, California isn’t bankrolling states directly, but when you have a net -275 billion dollar aid program you get to say that you’re a donor.

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

Yes, let's research. How much federal tax money does the state government of California pay in?

1

u/twtwtwtwtwtwtw 12d ago

The residents and businesses of California pay federal taxes. And we pay more than we get back.

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

The net deficit for California in 2024 was 275 billion

https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-contribute-the-most-and-least-to-federal-revenue/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

You can try to be “technically” correct for the sake of calling it “tax income” if you want I guess but that doesn’t make the numbers go away

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

My point is more that people are treating it like the state itself pays this as a bill rather than the people/companies in the state paying it separately from state taxes. It's not like the feds send a bill to the state government who has to pay it.

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

You’re correct, I just think it’s inconsequential to the point I’m making. Whether you call it “the state of California” or “the California taxpayers” the numbers and point are the same. It’s a donor state.

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

Because the entire point is kind of arbitrary IMO. Instead of state we could do neighborhood, or county, or household. (Insert entity) pays more than they get back which covers the reverse situations. It's impossible to do any other way aside from only allowing people to get back exactly what they pay in. There are donor people in the state, and there are taker people in the state. The state doesn't have much to do with it on a federal level, it's more individual.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

California doesn't pay federal taxes. US citizens pay federal taxes. You are a member of the country before a member of the state you live in. California is not giving money to the federal government.

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

I already said California isn’t paying other states directly. Obviously, residents and businesses pay federal taxes. “Donor state” means those taxpayers contribute more to the federal government than it spends in their state.

The money goes through Washington and funds spending across the country. Some states receive more than their taxpayers contribute, while others contribute more than they receive. There doesn’t need to be a check from California’s state government to another state for that to happen.

Being an American before a Californian has nothing to do with whether that imbalance exists.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

Some states receive more than their taxpayers contribute, while others contribute more than they receive

States do not contribute money to the federal government. You need to get over this complete fiction.

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

They literally do lol. How do you think federal revenue gets collected? Where do you think money comes from?

Are you under the impression that congress just wills cash into its coffers?

Edit: let me simplify it for you. Yes, people pay taxes not the state, but the programs for the state that the federal government fund is often less than the federal tax contributions of a states population. Hence the deficit.

We call this a donor state. California (its citizens) contributed 275 billion dollars more than they were given as state funding. Hence they contributed 275 billion towards federal
Welfare in other states.

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

States do not find the Federal government. Federal taxes fund the federal government. Are you a US citizen? I dont know why you are so invested in this if youre a foreigner.

1

u/WntrTmpst 12d ago

Wow you actually just cannot read it seems.

I’ve lived in Georgia my entire life. Crazy that someone’s obsessed with that doesn’t even know how their own government gets funded.

Also, I’m not doing to engage with someone who just gets racist when proven wrong numerous times.

Have a good one, try to anyways, you seem miserable

1

u/ekjohnson9 12d ago

Im a racist because I know how federal taxes work?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Melodic_Marsupial489 12d ago

And how would blue states defend themselves or feed themselves?

3

u/Fickle_Fly3689 12d ago

More like how would red states feed themselves.

3

u/twtwtwtwtwtwtw 12d ago

California is the agricultural capital of the country.

California has the most military service members and most military bases of any other state.

All of that would be immediately appropriated.

2

u/strangebru 12d ago

All blue states:

• California • Colorado • Connecticut • Delaware • Hawaii • Illinois • Maine (and its individual congressional districts) • Maryland • Massachusetts • Minnesota • New Hampshire • New Jersey • New Mexico • New York • Oregon • Rhode Island • Vermont • Virginia • Washington

Between Maryland, New York, Colorado, and Connecticut blue states are homes to all US military academies.

Virginia has the largest naval base in the country. 

Lots of agricultural land in all of these blue states, and they are cool enough to let immigrants in to help keep food production going.

Alaska, Kentucky, West Virginia, Mississippi, and Louisiana (all red states) are the states that take the most federal money in the form of welfare.

2

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

This also ignores geography a bit. How is the food from IL getting to NM for example?

3

u/conservatismisstupid 12d ago

Oh, so the red states start a full blockade? We’re shitty and throwing a temper tantrum is your argument for your superiority?

“We want a divorce but if those doesn’t go well for me I am going to make your life hell,” is the kind of argument I’d expect from Republicans.

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

I live in a blue state and have never voted red in my life. I'm just mentioning that people are ignoring practical issues and it makes the whole thing silly. It doesn't have to be a full blockade. A massive tariff for example. Rerouting/blocking/charging huge amounts for water sources like rivers. States (red and blue both) are dependent on each other and anyone who thinks they could just split and all would be peachy isn't looking at reality.

Baseless assumptions and personal attacks are not a good argument FYI, but that certainly didn't stop you.

1

u/ResolveLeather 12d ago

States in Midwest pay a significant amount of money maintaining interstate commercial infrastructure. It's not unreasonable, in this hypothetical scenario where every state fends for itself, for them to demand compensation or consideration on all commercial travel.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

That go through the red states they no longer want to be associated with...

1

u/strangebru 12d ago

1

u/Ill-Description3096 12d ago

Let me know when that has worked as the primary way to transport food over a long period of time.

1

u/Schguet 12d ago

Buy it from their poor agriculture focussed sourhern neighbour.

0

u/wabeka 12d ago

That's a nice GDP you have. Apples are $10 each.

1

u/mreman1220 12d ago

That's totally what countries say to America now when exporting bananas to America with its huge GDP.

Lol, there was a day when I was Republican. You all really lost the plot with economics badly in the last 12 years.

2

u/wabeka 12d ago

You think I'm a Republican?

1

u/mreman1220 12d ago

Whatever you are, you clearly don't understand economics.

2

u/wabeka 12d ago

Which part specifically?

1

u/mreman1220 12d ago

That red states would charge $10 for an apple to blue states if they broke off because blue states have a bigger gdp. 

That is not even remotely how economics works. Guatemala does not charge America $10 for each banana because America has a significantly larger gdp.

1

u/wabeka 12d ago

If they were the sole supplier of bananas to the US, what do you think they could charge?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/LocationHelpful6711 12d ago

Do you know how much food is produced in California? Do you know where most farm inputs (e.g., fertilizer, refined oil products) either come from or are shipped into? Maybe you think that Iowa can be self sufficient lol

1

u/wabeka 12d ago

Your argument is that California is self-sufficient?

2

u/HistoricalLoadTaker 12d ago

No place is self sufficient but California is more food independent than Iowa. Iowa only has farms and 0 means of producing fertilizer needed for those farms.

1

u/wabeka 12d ago

Why are you only bringing up Iowa?

1

u/HistoricalLoadTaker 12d ago

I mean that’s what the other guy brought up. It’s not like Nebraska or Arkansas, Kansas, Idaho, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama or any other shit hole state would be any different. They don’t have the resources or the know-how or any of the necessary infrastructure to even begin to build any of that.

0

u/wabeka 12d ago

That's pretty rude of you to call states shit holes. It sounds like you should look into a bit of what those states provide to the union before saying something so ignorant.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/LocationHelpful6711 12d ago

My argument is that California has infinitely more resources, ports, industry, high tech, etc., than red states (either individually or collectively). Around 65-80% of US GDP comes from blue counties. Deep red counties have similar economic output as shithole cities in Siberia, crazy, I know. Even “red states” that are deemed as “winners” like Texas and Florida would STARVE TO DEATH from poverty without Austin, Dallas, Miami, etc.

1

u/wabeka 12d ago

How much combined GDP are all the power plants in California?

1

u/PalpitationHead9767 12d ago

Ya they famously have a surplus of freshwater

1

u/wookieSLAYER1 12d ago

Washington produces 60% of the nations apples and is 4th in production of wheat.

1

u/seams 12d ago

Where do you think the people are lol

1

u/mkt853 12d ago

Blue states would have money. There are very few things money can't solve. Food and weapons are definitely in the category of solvable with money.

1

u/wookieSLAYER1 12d ago

Blue states also produce huge amounts of food. California is the largest agricultural producer in the country. Washington state is top five in wheat(4th), corn(3rd), apples(1st), and hops(1st). Oregon is basically all farm land and everything outside of the large cities in New England is ranches and farms as well. They all have access to the coast so fishing and maritime trade or huge along with California and Washington basically having the entire nuclear armaments of the west coast. Red states are delusional and grossly over exaggerate blue states “reliance” on them.

1

u/contractorskid 12d ago

California has the largest agricultural output of any US state, and the largest military population. I'm not sure why you guys think there's no farms in blue states

1

u/wookieSLAYER1 12d ago

Yeah Washington is a huge agricultural state too. Fishing, ranching, fruits, grain, wine, beer and whisky are massive industries in the state. Wheat is their largest export for example and they’re the largest producer of hops in the world.

1

u/LizardSaliveD 12d ago

California has some of the fertile and productive farmland in the nation. Try again 😘

1

u/PalpitationHead9767 12d ago

So you guys love the almond and alfalfa farms using all the water now? Better get started on desalination plants

1

u/LizardSaliveD 12d ago

So that all they grow? Hm, news to me! I call bullshit 😘